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Hellbent
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It's done, and so is this enormous thread! Release discussion goes here:
http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mo...d-did-released/

---

Here is the list of wads selected for the final release of DTWID set for Dec. 10. This list was largely arrived by consensus through playtesting and discussion in IRC. Big thanks to everyone who made this project a resounding success, especially when I went MIA the last month or so. Special thanks to Xaser and Alfonzo for compiling the list and Xaser for putting together the Beta. Here is Xaser's announcement:


This list is more or less a final & solid set of maps. Just want to give a huge thanks to everyone who's contributed, and if your map or another one you love is not on this list, don't fret because there will be a 2nd 3-episode compilation of maps to follow this one to showcase all the runners-up.

I should be posting up a public beta within a few days, including some bugfixed and tweaked maps. I'd like to ask that the authors of the selected maps old off on making any changes just yet, since I've fixed a few miscellaneous bugs and made some tweaks to the things in the beta, and I wouldn't want the fixes to get out of sync just yet. Once the beta's up, there's still some difficulty settings and multiplayer support to take care of, and the floor will be open for authors to tweak their own maps if they like (or leave it to me if they're tired of messing with 'em :P ).

We're close to a release... psyched yet? :P


We are coming down the home stretch, now. If your map is selected, here are some things to think about for authenticity until the beta is released at which time you can apply changes to your maps:

Scale:
Check for sector heights that are not divisible by 8. Avoid
repercussions in gameplay caused by rounding up or down to the nearest 8.

Sector brightness must be divisible by 16 (excluding 255)
Limitations Check: we still haven't figured out the best way to do this. Anyone have a 386 or 486 lying around? :D

Alignment: Check for blatant auto-align abuse

Thing placement: does your map have decorations? Appropriate number and placement of armor helmets and health potions? For E1 make sure your map has some short lamps as e1 has lots of these.

Skill settings: this be a good time to put in skills settings for your maps.

Player starts: don't forget to put in player starts and DM starts and maybe some extra ammo and health and weapons for deathmatch the way id did. When in doubt, look at the maps in the IWAD!
Thanks Alfonzo for the help with this list.

Release date for DTWID is December 10th


Thanks to BondEar for his DOSBox 386 emulation post for dtwid playtesting!

Join us on IRC! It's easy: Mibbit.com Webchat to get on IRC without downloading anything at all. Just choose OFTC as the server to connect to from the dropdown menu. Then choose a nickname to use, and then type #doomtwid into the channel field.















=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+













For those working on this project. Go to Ellmo's new DTWID submission site and register so that you can upload your wads to the new site. Thanks Ellmo and Xaser! Use www.mediafire.com to upload your wad(s) (one at a time) and then copy and paste the download link into the submission form. If you have any questions, send me a PM.

We are broadening our resources for teamwork by including discussions on the project in IRC!
server: irc.oftc.net
room: #doomtwid

E1M8 Challenge: Build an e1m8 that is fresh enough to surprise the player while being a 'believable' alternative to the original e1m8. You don't have to use the < 10% sector, but if you don't, you should make sure your ending matches the end episode text. Reward for your map being used in the final is credits for the mapslot.

* Disclaimer: Parts of maps or ideas in maps may be used with other ideas/maps from multiple contributors. More than one name may be listed in the credits.

This entire thread on one page: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthr...26&perpage=5000 You can "Save As..." html or txt. Or use "View Source". Thanks Grazza!

Some inspiration provided by 40oz. Check it out! http://www.doomworld.com/vb/fan-fic...ugh-of-despair/

Download--Doom the Way id Did Alpha-- (This is now outdated. Check the top of this post for an updated beta.)

Xaser has put the levels up on a separate website for easier access! Thanks Xaser! >>>>>>>>>>http://ionline.vectec.net/doom/dtwid/<<<<<<<<<<<

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/fan-fic...deimos-anomaly/

John Romero dishes up some goods and answers some questions. To find his various posts, search for oremor or any other word that appears in his custom title. :)

If you are working on this project and your name isn't on the list or your maps aren't entered, PLEASE PM ME and I will add you to the list along with your maps. Likewise, if you posted a map for feedback and never heard anything from me, PM me. The thread is overgrown and I simply overlooked it.

we need more second half episode e1 maps! Map slots e1m4 through e1m9. Maybe Romero would be better able to field questions related to those maps than me. ;)

If you want to participate in this project, we are still accepting mappers! Extra maps that don't make the final cut will be released in a separate standalone Lost Episode(s). Cutting off mappers while this thing is steam rolling ahead just doesn't make sense in my mind.
I encourage you to peruse this thread to get an idea of what the project is about. A detailed mapping guide to help get your map closer to looking like an official DooM map will be coming soon!

Mappers working on this project
40oz:
Dragonsbrethren: e1m2-ish, e1m7-ish (def do this one too!)
Nuxius: e1m1
Iori: e1m1
RDMonkey: e1
Hellbent: E3M5-ish
st.alfonzo: e2-somewhere in second half
chubz:
_bruce_:
Foodles: e2m3ish, e3m3ish
Walter confalonieri: e3m1
Marnetmar: e1
Lawstiker: e1 and e3
Vaporizer: e3m3ish
Icytux: e3m3
Mista T::
Mr. Chris:E2M4, E2M1
Mr. Freeze:
Lorenzo:e1m2-e1m3ish - "Supply Station"
Cyberturtle:
C30N9 one map for each episode
Pcorf: e2 or e3
Xaser:
Dannebubinga:E3 (second halfish)
Marcaek:E2M1ish
Lutz:
NaturalTwenty:
Ellmo:
ProcessingControl:
XenoNemisis:
Phobus: E3M6
Bucket?:

Those who expressed interest but can't commit for various reasons[/b]
I'm listing you guys in case you change your mind. :p
Agent Spork? (We could sure use an agent on such a project)
Herculine
Kyka
PRIMEVAL

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I want to send a message to Romero, but I want it to really grab his attention. So anyone who wants to write a draft of message we could send him, post it in this thread: I'm thinking a SHORT appeal to Romero asking if he has any interest in our project and if he wants to offer any advice! What do you think? Let's put together a SHORT proposal he can't refuse!

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Doom The Way id Did is looking for mappers! It's not too late to start work on this project! It is still in its early stages and gaining momentum. Other ways you can contribute:

1. Someone who is good at organizing information would be a great help! There is a lot of information in this thread, but it is not so well organized. If we could get all the different aspects that make up an id map in one bulleted thread, that would be great! St. Alfonso has been very gracious in offering to put the general mapping guidelines or rules for this project into a PDF, so look for that in the near future! In the meantime, There is a lot of information in this thread that currently serve as guidelines for this project so check it out! In the future, firm rules for mapping in the id vein may be set forth to bring this project closer to a more consistent and authentic feel. If you have any thoughts about how id uses motifs in doom--or any factors that you observe make an id map an id map, please post your ideas for what makes an id map have its distinct style/feel/gameplay.

2. Mr. Freeze is on top of writing fresh Doomy tracks and sprucing up the alpha tracks for this project. If you want to help in that area, you may want to PM him about it. Before beginning work on this project, please READ THIS!. If after reading this you have any questions, please quote the linked text and address your question in the thread.

The project is running very smoothly right now. People are making excellent contributions and many of the maps are looking to be oh-so-very-doomy. The preliminary results are as good as I could have hoped for. I am getting really excited about this project! The maps that have been submitted so far show that people really have the vision and enthusiasm I was hoping they would for this project to really pull it off, even though it is a tall order!

As some of you have been doing, it's probably a good idea to PM me whatever work you want to show me, rather than posting it directly in the thread. This will ensure your excellent work won't be leaked too early and will generate exclusivity for the project. Also, in light of people taking the project seriously and clearly working hard on it, I am extending the due date for 'rough drafts' of your maps. I want to make sure everyone who wants to work on this project has all the time they need to produce their best work possible!

Thanks again for all the great stuff so far!

If you have any questions or concerns--anything at all--please don't hesitate to contact me or post in this thread! Posting in the thread for most things is best as other people might have similar questions or concerns as you.

If people could say what episode(s) they are mapping for and how many map(s) along with where in the episode the map could foreseeably go (ie, near the beginning, middle or near the end) Thanks!

Given the high level of output and progress in this project I am removing the deadline for progress on maps. It was February 1st, 2011 for significant work, but I am in no rush, so I am removing this deadline.

Basically the idea of the project is to gain an intimate understanding of id levels in episodes 1, 2 and 3 of Doom, and then make a level that could fit in one of the episodes without someone being able to tell which level was not id's!

So basically the idea is to mimic id's style of mapmaking. This does not mean there will not be room for creativity. The limitations proposed in this thread are provided to help the mapper keep the level looking like an original id map. The ultimate achievement would be to come up with original ideas that would look and feel like they could have been original id maps made back in that exciting time. Every E1-E3 map had something creative and interesting in it. Yours should too!

UPDATE!: Look carefully at how all the various ways id does transitions between areas. Doors and lifts are just the beginning!pics

I always wanted John Romero to make another map for doom episode 1, and one time he replied to an email saying 'maybe I will!' but never did as far as I know. So.. this project asks the doom community to study the maps and try to make them as John Romero and Sandy Petersen did!

Consider the rules Romero used for himself when making maps (thanks nameless):


  • conscious use of contrast everywhere in a level between light and dark areas, cramped and open areas
  • creating easily recognizable landmarks in several places for easier navigation
  • being strict about designing several secret areas on every level
  • making sure that if a player could see outside that they should be able to somehow get there
  • making my levels flow so the player will revisit areas several times so they will better understand the 3D space of the level
  • always changing floor height when I wanted to change floor textures
  • using special border textures between different wall segments and doorways
  • being strict about texture alignment


Other points to consider when approaching this project:


  • The principles for good id maps discussed in the original thread are guidelines to be adhered to which ideally will inspire new and original ideas and level designs.

  • how do sectors connect to others? Notice how many areas or rooms see into another area or room (especially in e1). Classic examples are the soul sphere in e1m3, the dark room in e1m5 where you pick up the first key, (after raising the ledge), many parts of e1m7.

  • Notice sector sizes. Go into your editor and study some interesting areas (like the ones in the screenshots of maps to model your designs after). How big are they?

  • notice sector heights: many in e1, for example, have a height of 72 (often when using the startan textures)

  • Study the textures used and where they are used and the effect it has. Does startan look better in 128 high rooms or 72? Are the textures in episode uniform like they are in episode 4, or are they an interesting mix of textures? What floor/ceiling texture combinations are used often?

  • try to stick to the textures id used for each episode and use them in ways that work, while being modeled after the id style. ie., episode 4 texturing is less innovative than episode 2. If you're not sure what textures e1, e2 and e3 used, there is some info on that elsewhere in the thread; just do your best.

  • TryDo not to copy existing areas from the originals. Do not do homages. If you want to do an homage, make sure it is done in such a way that it seems fresh and original (maybe the surrounding area is creative and fresh enough to put the 'homage' in a new light).



P.S. I am open to peoples' sentiments to add more height variation to episode 2 style maps (and in that sense diverge from mimicking purely the e2 style).

Here are some screenies of my sorta-successful attempt at this.

C3N09'S concept intermission pic:
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-unZxEv8BpXs/Tjcd7E8zYuI/AAAAAAAACA8/fMesKjdHiIQ/s1600/C3N09+interpic1.JPG

Nuxius screenie:
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8241/idstyleep101kd6.png

Here is a good link to study sector shapes and overall map layouts.
http://www.classicdoom.com/maps/d1secs/d1s-z.htm#e2m2

If you look at the sector shapes in the first three episodes and then compare them to the ones in episode 4, you'll see there is an artistic and aesthetic quality to the first three episodes that the forth episode lacks. E4M1 and E4M7 are most notable in this respect. The sector shapes are less interesting and have many straight vertical and horizontal lines unlike the sector shapes in episodes 1 through 3.

__________________
What if software archaeologists unearthed levels from the original DooM 1 that had somehow been lost and never made it into the original release of DooM? Project Doom the way id did explores what those levels might look like.

Last edited by esselfortium on 12-11-11 at 01:24

Old Post 08-04-10 07:22 #
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Xaser
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Hmm, I'm working (on and off, as always) on an Ultimate Doom map with some areas that have the potential to possibly fit in something like this. Once I start messing with it a bit more, I might have a contribution, assuming you don't mind it being made of bits and pieces of another wad of mine. :P

A de-voidified and slightly scaled-down Lost Episode E5M1 might be an interesting venture, too. Just a thought, though.

Old Post 08-04-10 07:44 #
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Hellbent
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Xaser said:
Hmm, I'm working (on and off, as always) on an Ultimate Doom map with some areas that have the potential to possibly fit in something like this. Once I start messing with it a bit more, I might have a contribution, assuming you don't mind it being made of bits and pieces of another wad of mine. :P
Sure, that'd be fine.


Xaser said:
A de-voidified and slightly scaled-down Lost Episode E5M1 might be an interesting venture, too. Just a thought, though.
I remember seeing a post or thread about this before. Was it your project idea? Yeah, it's intriguing.

Old Post 08-04-10 08:05 #
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Nameless
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The first link is broken.

You do know that the main reason the stock episodes looked the way they looked is because:
1. id had to make suire the levels could run on a common computer from the early 90s.
2. Romero was a better level designer than Petersen.

I would say that to create a level that mimics Romero you would have to throw away all bells-and-whistles off today and follow the rules Romero made for himself:

* always changing floor height when I wanted to change floor textures
* using special border textures between different wall segments and doorways
* being strict about texture alignment
* conscious use of contrast everywhere in a level between light and dark areas, cramped and open areas
* making sure that if a player could see outside that they should be able to somehow get there
* being strict about designing several secret areas on every level
* making my levels flow so the player will revisit areas several times so they will better understand the 3D space of the level
* creating easily recognizable landmarks in several places for easier navigation

As far as I can see you have come a long way. I'm might join once I finished my CC4-map

__________________
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.

Last edited by Nameless on 08-05-10 at 10:12

Old Post 08-04-10 08:41 #
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_bruce_
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I love the old id style though I was never able to reproduce it.
It's in such a cute way unpredictable and funny and on and of there's some really cool looking spots.
Recently I played approx. 10 times through E1M7 and I have to say the map is beyond cool in every aspect.

Good luck with your project.

Old Post 08-04-10 12:08 #
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Hellbent
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Link fixed.

what we don't want our levels to look like:
notice the dominance of 180, 90 and 45 degree lines.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8WoJeZ-J4c/TFl6DcuBEDI/AAAAAAAABnk/D28cT9hOCzk/s1600/e4m1.bmp

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8WoJeZ-J4c/TFl25oW689I/AAAAAAAABnc/TfCd2si-GxE/s1600/e4m7.bmp

what we do want:
notice all the organic, interesting sector shapes.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8WoJeZ-J4c/TFl7ppbs99I/AAAAAAAABns/SSiO1q0Ig3E/s1600/e3m4.bmp

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8WoJeZ-J4c/TFl9flLXapI/AAAAAAAABn0/FZRuofl2sAk/s1600/e1m7.bmp

I couldn't find one 45 degree angle in this screen of e1m7

And now you know where I got the inspiration/idea for this seemingly dumb idea:


Hellbent said in another thread:
An area or room with three walls with similar angles but not having to be going in the same direction (ie ~45 and ~-45). The restriction is that they need to be near 45 or -45 degrees, but cannot BE 45 degrees, with a minimum 3 of degrees difference in angle from each other and all 3 lines having to be within 5 degrees of 45 (so between 40 and 50 or -40 and -50). So for example: one wall could be 41 degrees, one wall -44 degrees and one wall 49 degrees). It sounds weird/random, but that combination of angles can make an interesting effect if proportioned intelligently to one another. The rest of the walls of the room/area can be as you like.


EDIT: So we have some bullets for guidelines that Romero used in making his maps. Maybe it would be good to make another bullet list of things we notice about these original maps that made them good. Many good points were made in the original thread to this project, I'll try to collect them into bullets, and then hope to hear other observations from you. Even if the end result of this project ends up being < successful, hopefully we will all learn something and become better mappers for it.

Last edited by Hellbent on 08-04-10 at 16:07

Old Post 08-04-10 15:04 #
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Hellbent
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Are my bullet guildelines too daunting? Is the post too disorganized? Do I not make sense? Is it too nitpicky? 200+ views but no replies since yesterday. What say you. Speak! Fear not.

Old Post 08-05-10 05:00 #
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Herculine
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Hellbent said:
Are my bullet guildelines too daunting? Is the post too disorganized? Do I not make sense? Is it too nitpicky? 200+ views but no replies since yesterday. What say you. Speak! Fear not.


Actually I think this is a very cool idea, but I'm just not experienced enough yet to jump in... I'd be more burden than help. But I do wish you success and I look forward to seeing how it turns out!

Old Post 08-05-10 05:36 #
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Hellbent
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Herculine said:


Actually I think this is a very cool idea, but I'm just not experienced enough yet to jump in... I'd be more burden than help. But I do wish you success and I look forward to seeing how it turns out!

Okay, cool. Yeah, it does take a certain amount of experience. I am more interested in the veteran mappers to step forward. Hopefully some will. :) cheers. But any talented mappers are encouraged to apply.

Old Post 08-05-10 05:42 #
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40oz
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


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I'm trying my hand at this. This is really difficult! I'm usually a slave to the grid because I pay close attention to the line lengths so I can determine which textures to apply. In this scenario, I kinda have to design the maps not knowing which textures I'm going to use ahead of time, which is weird for me. I think i might be able to pull something cool and unique out of this though.

Old Post 08-05-10 06:01 #
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Hellbent
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40oz said:
I'm trying my hand at this. This is really difficult! I'm usually a slave to the grid because I pay close attention to the line lengths so I can determine which textures to apply. In this scenario, I kinda have to design the maps not knowing which textures I'm going to use ahead of time, which is weird for me. I think i might be able to pull something cool and unique out of this though.
What I've noticed about id maps is they don't ever go off the grid entirely, but minimum is 8 grid. They use the grid, but they try to make unique shapes and angles. It's only in episode 4 they get lazy and resort to a lot of 90, 180 and 45 degree angles. Glad that you're giving it a go. You are a talented mapper, I'm sure you'll be able to come up with some quality.

Old Post 08-05-10 06:07 #
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Kyka
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I think this is a very worthy project, and I would love to see something come of it. Reading through the original thread OP just looks cool. The idea of having levels set in between the existing levels is very appealing.

I won't contribute myself at this point, mainly because my computer is dead, and mapping without a computer poses various logistical challenges.

But the idea itself does grab me. I used to map a lot in the 90's (wish I had kept all those maps), whereas now all my maps are huge and complex, so getting back to basics would be a good thing for me, as well as being a really good challenge to do more with less.

I notice in myself that once you start down the road of add on textures, custom monsters, ACS scripting etc etc, two things happen.

1)The number of chioces you have to make goes up exponentially.
2)All the extras are almost like a drug. You find yourself on this slippery slope, always thinking, "If I put this new texture in, it will make this room just perfect." Or "If I put this new monster in, it will make this fight juuuuust right. And while this is true if these things are done well, thay can become easily just an excuse of putting new stuff in just for the sake of having something new in there.

So against my natural, deep down tendencies that more is always better, I would love to see something come of this. I seem to recall wanting to do something with the original project idea at that time, but I think I was too busy working on CLaustrophobia1024 maps iirc.

Good luck tho, it is a worthy idea.

And I do like nameless' list of guidelines that Mr Romero imposed on himself.

/end wall of text here

Old Post 08-05-10 06:09 #
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PRIMEVAL
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I like the idea of this, the screenies look very nice, too. I'm no mapper, so my contribution may be a little lacking XP Though I guess I can write music, my "to-do" list is a bit crowded but I should be able to squeeze time. School is almost out anyway, so that should buy up time. But yeah, this looks pretty nice, I'm looking forward to the end result.

Old Post 08-05-10 06:45 #
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40oz
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


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Man I can't help but feel like John Romero as I do this. After reading the opening post and using prior knowledge of Episode 1, I think I may be onto something. It's weird having to abandon my usual mapping habits to do this but the results are really phenomenal. Here's my progress so far:

Editor View

Center Hub

Nukage pool

Secret Area

Old Post 08-05-10 07:59 #
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Bucket
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It would take quite a bit to get back in the swing of things. I don't have DB set up or anything, but we'll see if I can come up with something this weekend.

Old Post 08-05-10 08:08 #
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Dragonsbrethren
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I like the idea of this project, I might take a stab at making a map for it. I'll post some screenies here if I start working on something.

Old Post 08-05-10 09:04 #
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40oz
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


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Looking at some of Doom 1's maps, and comparing it to my own map design, usually when im designing maps I'm paying close attention to designing cool rooms and what will look best in game, while in Doom's case, it appears as though the mappers were more interested what would make the best adventure. They evidently had experience in doing so from playing dungeons and dragons all the time. This can be seen very well in the editor view of E3M4 Hellbent posted. Here's my breakdown of E3M4

This map has a lot of winding hallways and places to explore. It is apparent that Sandy Petersen visualized the House of Pain to be a series of dungeons made up of dark corridors, with treacherous obstacles in between, such as that zig-zaggy catwalk suspended over a pool of blood in which cacodemons belch fireballs at you from their cells. Of course there had to be secret areas and rooms with demonic treasures, such as that berserk room. But what would hell be if there weren't consequences for touching it's prized possessions? It was a trap! The wall ahead rises and the demons and lost souls swarm in! Already the House of Pain begins to feel like an Indiana Jones movie.

Upon moving up the ominous steps, it's unclear what horrors lie ahead. Reaching the end of the corridor there is a door illuminated by a lone candle. There's the crushing ceilings with the chaingun and the invulnerability sphere under them. There are some levers but it's unclear what they do. Pulling each one in the correct sequence lifts the floors up to ground level where they can be acquired if you are quick on your feet, lest you be crushed to a pile of bloody oatmeal! (The flattened entrails scabbed to the ceiling indicate the greedy survivors that didn't make it) The next area you arrive in is quite evidently the torture chambers, given the long, almost endless halls with illuminated demonic ornaments engraved in the walls. The souls of those sentenced to eternal damnation can be seen through the windows, chained to the walls struggling for breath, enduring unspeakable amounts of agony. There is a sealed door that requires a blue skullkey. The player must continue his quest for the blue skullkey searching out the corridors while fighting off the cacodemons and imps that prowl in its shadows. The player reaches the furthest corridor, Where the blue key can be seen in the far corner. The lowly imps and demons are not responsible enough to guard such a precious artifact. In order to reach it, the player must defeat the BARON OF HELL!! Once the player defeats the baron of hell, the blue skullkey is acquired and used to enter the deeper sanctums of the house of pain, in which the player is challenged with more puzzles to solve in order to progress further, until reaching the deepest confines of dungeon, the cells where the mortal sinners are contained. The cells are controlled by two pillars with skull switches on each one. The player must play around with the switches to determine what each one is capable of to solve the puzzle. Once the puzzle is solved, The hero encounters more monsters around a bend and is presented with a hallway lined with hot coals that he must sprint across to avoid being cooked into fine roast beef, consequently alerting cacodemons and more barons of his presence, who soon pursue him as he makes a dash for the exit.

Thinking of Doom as more of an adventure instead of quirky mapping really brings it to life. I'm heavily inspired to play through the IWADs once again for this reason.

Old Post 08-05-10 16:50 #
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Hellbent
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http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/1230/doom04.png
I think you really captured the id style here 40oz!

I like your analysis into House of Pain. Now that you point it out, it really does have something of the Indiana Jones quality to it. You may have shined some new light on why I play Doom over and over. I think it would be useful to analyze all the levels in each episode the way you have done. I think you have brought to light just one of many ways in which Doom 1 appeals. House of Pain is just one type of adventure approach id has taken. What other ways do other levels and episodes do it? It seems to me other levels in episode 3 have this peculiar flavor of adventure you have described. The hand map seems to have similar things going on in it. It's a very painful map, with the close quarters and all the cacodemons and lost souls; it has a lot of lowering walls which lend an Indiana Jones type atmosphere to the level. Unholy Cathedral and House of Pain have similar names (they are both fell temples so to speak). They both have nasty traps with teleporting monsters (HoP at the beginning and UC at the end).

I had always thought that episodes 2 and 3 were pretty indistinguishable, and that only episode 1 was clearly set apart. E1 was moon base and lacked certain monsters, weapons and textures--2 and 3 were hellish. But I think it would be good to try to point out some of the ways in which e2 maps and e3 maps are not interchangeable.

EDIT: What do you guys think about contacting John Romero for further insights or advice for designing levels for this project? He's very approachable as it were. I was thinking maybe write on his facebook wall succinctly what the project is setting out to do. Then maybe other old doom fans might see it and be like--'hey, that's kinda cool, maybe I'll join this effort'.

Last edited by Hellbent on 08-05-10 at 18:32

Old Post 08-05-10 17:47 #
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40oz
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I started writing some breakdowns on some of the Doom maps. Based on the maps, the sector effects, line actions, and the general looks of them, I decided to describe in the best detail I could what is happening and what each area is intended to be. I feel as though each map has some sort of story to tell beyond all the basic doom gameplay fogs it up. I'm also trying to remain neutral about it apeak of it in 3rd person instead of going "this is what the doomguy must be thinking" all the time. I'm also trying to steer away from describing the combat since everyone can already determine very lucid what that's like, save for some unique traps. I'll probably copy paste most of my description of E3M4 for my next one. I'm also thinking of some in-depth breakdowns of specific Doom 2 maps. Especially Underhalls, Downtown, Suburbs, and The Chasm. I hope you guys read em and see Doom the way I see it!

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Old Post 08-05-10 20:04 #
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Well done 40.

Old Post 08-05-10 22:56 #
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Would any one be able to compile a texture WAD with only the first three episodes? Or at least check a level for E4 artwork? It would be impossible for me to figure that out offhand.

Old Post 08-06-10 01:20 #
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Hellbent
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Bucket said:
Would any one be able to compile a texture WAD with only the first three episodes? Or at least check a level for E4 artwork? It would be impossible for me to figure that out offhand.
I don't think e4 used any new textures.

Firewala was used in episode 2, btw. In e2m6 at the beginning.
Vines seem to be an episode 2 only texture.
Maybe I'll go through the levels and see if I can detect any patterns or textures that were only used in e2 or e3. I wouldn't really worry about it too much. Textures can always be adjusted or changed as needed.

Last edited by Hellbent on 08-06-10 at 02:15

Old Post 08-06-10 02:09 #
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Something I just thought of, has anyone put together a list of which line and sector actions were added in which version? I know some of them were added with Doom 2 (blazing doors, switches that required keys), but I've never seen a full list. I think it would be cool, and add a bit more authenticity, if this map set could run on the 0.99/1.0 engine.

For textures, I find it pretty interesting that the area after the raising steps in E2M2 had wooden walls in the pre-beta, which got changed to cement. That area has a much more hellish feel in that version. E2 and E3 just seem so random in terms of textures, but it seems like they did unique themes in mind for them. (Doesn't really explain the techbase in E3M3...)

Old Post 08-07-10 05:26 #
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Hellbent said:
I don't think e4 used any new textures.

Firewala was used in episode 2, btw. In e2m6 at the beginning.
Vines seem to be an episode 2 only texture.
Maybe I'll go through the levels and see if I can detect any patterns or textures that were only used in e2 or e3. I wouldn't really worry about it too much. Textures can always be adjusted or changed as needed.



GRAYDANG is another of those very sparsely used textures...I've only seen it in E2M6...atop the SKULWALL/SKULWAL3 textures weren't used too much in e2 but only here and there in e3.

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Old Post 08-07-10 05:29 #
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Hellbent
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Dragonsbrethren said:
Something I just thought of, has anyone put together a list of which line and sector actions were added in which version? I know some of them were added with Doom 2 (blazing doors, switches that required keys), but I've never seen a full list. I think it would be cool, and add a bit more authenticity, if this map set could run on the 0.99/1.0 engine.

For textures, I find it pretty interesting that the area after the raising steps in E2M2 had wooden walls in the pre-beta, which got changed to cement. That area has a much more hellish feel in that version. E2 and E3 just seem so random in terms of textures, but it seems like they did unique themes in mind for them. (Doesn't really explain the techbase in E3M3...)



I have always been very aware of the type differences in doom vs doom 2 for two reasons. One, deepsea tells me which linedef types are doom 2, and two, the fast doors (or blazing as you put it) just don't provide the same moody atmosphere the slow doors do. I can make a list if it'd be helpful.

I have to agree with you e2 and e3 seem random in terms of texture use. The only real difference I've been able to tell is that e2 is the only episode that uses the vine textures (correct me if I'm wrong, though). I don't know any other textures that are exclusive to e2 or e3.

EDIT: the following info is from DeepSea, so I cannot vouch for its 100% accuracy. The main differences are in fast doors, fast stairs and fast rising floors.

All the crushing floor types are doom 1 except type 141, w1 quiet crush ceil fast damage

all fast rising floor types are doom 2
fast stairs 16 increments instead of 8 (I always hate finding these in supposed classic doom maps--they are just sooo... doom 2.)

S1 and SR (the only switches to turn lights on and off) are doom 2.

W1 end level go to secret level is a doom 2 type

Monster teleport lines are doom 2 (ie map16 of doom 2).

Everything else was in doom 1.

Hope that is organized clearly enough.

BTW, does anyone know what the hell id used S1 raise floor 512 for? Sort of an odd man out linedef type.

Last edited by Hellbent on 08-07-10 at 05:42

Old Post 08-07-10 05:30 #
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Hellbent said:
BTW, does anyone know what the hell id used S1 raise floor 512 for? Sort of an odd man out linedef type.


I think that was only used on MAP30 of Doom II for the lift you used to kill the Icon of Sin. That was the only time I was aware of it's use so I'd say that's definitely Doom II.

Old Post 08-07-10 05:56 #
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Episode 2 is the only episode that uses
CRATE textures
VINE textures.
SP_DUDE6 (only on 'special' levels such as E2M8 and E2M9)

any others anyone can think of?

FIREMAG3 and FIRELAVA both found in episode 2.
FIREMAG3 not found in episode 3.
FIREWALL found only on E2M6 and E2M7 and on nearly every level in E3.
FIREBLU2 found sparingly in e2 and a little more e3 (notably e3m6).

SKSNAKE1 and 2 only found in episode 3.
SW1SKIN only found in Episode 3.
SKINCUT only found in Episode 3.
SKINFACE only found on E2M5 and E3M3.
SKINEDGE found on E2M3, E2M5 and E3M3
The only one spine texture found in episode 2 is on the lift at the end of E2M4 before being lowered into the room with the 2 barons and the tower.

SKULWAL3 not found in Episode 2 (bloody skulls)
SKULWALL and SKULWAL3 found in both E2 and E3
SKINSYMB found once in episode 2 on E2M2 and not at all in Episode 3 (what the hell?)
SKINSCAB found once on episode 3 on E3M6 (in the beginning indoor area) and not at all in episode 2.

SKINLOW only in Episode 3.

The one sole instance of any vine texture in episode 3 was GRAYVINE found on the lower texture of the 3 weapon platform on E3M6
So, no living vines in Inferno and no crates found in Hell.

PLANET1 found once in episode 3 on Pandemonium (E3M3)

ASHWALL shows up only in secret areas of episode 2: the lower step texture for a secret exit on E2M2 and in the secret where the baron is caged on E2M5, while it is prominent in Episode 3 levels 1 and 2 (and a little in level 4). Interstingly, the flat of the same texture also only shows up in secrets on E2M2 and E2M5 of episode 2, while it is VERY prominent in many levels of Episode 3.

There are no DOORHIs in Hell.

Last edited by Hellbent on 08-07-10 at 07:21

Old Post 08-07-10 06:10 #
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40oz
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Looking at DOOM1.wad should be beneficial to decide which textures go where. When I think of Episode 2, I think of a lot of ICKWALL, STONE bricks, vines, and CEMENT textures. Episode 1 definitely did not have any crates. Episode 2 has some bits and pieces of wood and gray textures, and a few parts with GSTONE. Spawning Vats had a handful of SHAWN textures. There were pools of blood or lava here and there but nukage is still more prevalent.

Episode 3 was much more prevalent in GSTONE textures, especially the red GSTONE. A lot of ash and FIREWAL-esque textures with skin in between too. Some bits of wood too. Pretty much no nukage at all, just blood, lava and water.

Old Post 08-07-10 13:27 #
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How is the mapping going?

Old Post 08-11-10 23:38 #
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It isn't. Things won't quiet down any time soon, either.

Old Post 08-11-10 23:42 #
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