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Katamori
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purist, I tried the modified level and I think, it's good :) you can add that to the project

Old Post 11-09-10 13:51 #
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purist
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@Vaporizor: How odd. It was marked on a secret on the version on my computer. Must have zipped an old version by mistake. I've re-uploaded. Everything else is as before. Same link will work.

@Katamori: I'm glad you like it. I tried not to change your original much.

Old Post 11-09-10 18:26 #
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Cell
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Well... I don't know how to say, but I'm finished with the level!
The only thing I have to do now is to choose the music. Maybe TNT MAP06's music does it.
I'm not certain about the story, however. The level itself ends in a darkening tunnel. I'm interested how Melon could continue it.
Download link: http://www.mediafire.com/?4t7h8v049d919dv

Last edited by Cell on 11-09-10 at 20:11

Old Post 11-09-10 19:29 #
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purist
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That was quick! Well there's nothing wrong with finishing early. Remembering back to the earlier posts Melon said he was available the first 3 weeks in November so this might give him a head start.

I'm looking forward to seeing your map. I like the idea of the story progressing along with the levels so there is an objective for Doomguy to reach in the coming levels rather than running around different areas aimlessly. I'm sure Melon will have ideas for continuing from you.

Old Post 11-09-10 19:42 #
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Melon
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Finished already? Blimey. Looks like I have two weeks! (I'll try to only take a week, as it seems it would be nicer to keep ahead of schedule as it allows a bit of leeway for someone down the line).

I won't start until I can see your map though. I'd like to know what I'm continuing off from.

Old Post 11-09-10 19:48 #
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Vaporizer
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Wow, that was quick. I hope it's good too.

Old Post 11-09-10 19:49 #
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Cell
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Post edited! Map is ready for download and playtest.
P. S. I don't have certain name for it.

Old Post 11-09-10 20:12 #
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purist
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Wow, that was great Cell! - really enjoyed your map. I can't believe how quickly you work.

The only observations I will make are as follows [CONTAINS SPOILERS]:

1. No co-op starts. I know i didn't specify it in the rules but in retrospect there should at least be the option even if it's not tested or otherwise taken into consideration design-wise.

2. I found the secrets to be a bit too obscure - though that could be because I'm rubbish at finding them. We'll see what the others say. I thought the soulsphere secret was particulary difficult - I would never have guessed the texture was a switch never mind finding out what it did!

3. The switch to lower the red key is marked with the REDDOOR texture, which might confuse people into thinking you need a red key to hit it. Though it didn't cause that problem for me.

4. The brown slime being damaging might cause Melon some problems in MAP03 if his level is set mainly in the sewer. Then again it might be to his advantage. Either way we must stay consistent with the damaging flats so if brown slime is damaging in this level it should be in the rest.

5. The exit should be marked in some way. I wandered through and was suprised to find I had exited.

6. For me it was easier than MAP01. The only part that caused me a problem was the chaingunner teleport ambush, which was only because I was caught by suprise. I am reluctant to suggest you change it though as it's too early in the set to steepen the difficulty curve.

7. I've made some slight changes to the story. Just re-phrased some sentences. I've not changed the sequence of events. I'll PM it to you.

8. As for the name, I've not sure. How about Hitting Bottom as a start?

Of the above points I'm only concerned about points 1 & 3. The rest are pretty minor but we'll see if anyone else raises anything. I'll PM Melon to make him aware as he certainly needs to playtest.

Things for Melon to account for in MAP03:

Weapon progression: shotgun & chaingun given so far plus super-shotgun if the secret is found.

Monster progression: former human, sargeant, chaingunner, imp, demon & lost souls all used so far.

Misc: brown slime is 2%/5% damaging, sky hasn't been used yet (actually it has in the sewer but only glimpses).

Story: Doomguy suffers premonitions of an attack from Hell but his warnings find him thrown into an insane asylum. When the hospital is invaded by Hell (WHY DIDN'T ANYONE LISTEN TO HIM!?!) he attempts to escape the hospital in search of his Commanding Officer or some sort of military support but his elevator to the ground floor is sabotaged by those persistant beasties and sent smashing into the cellar.
Re-assessing his options, he decides the sewer will be the less thinly monster-populated route and so goes about his business flipping switches and hunting access cards to open up the sewer gate.
Doomguy is now in the sewer beneath an unspecified building (it's not been mentioned yet if it's in space, earth, phobos - just that it contains a hospital, several floors and a cellar/storage area).
Where will he go and what's the plan now?

Last edited by purist on 11-10-10 at 07:31

Old Post 11-09-10 22:18 #
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Katamori
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Wow, it was quick, and also fantastic! My level wasn't as good as your level...

this is my short opinion

Old Post 11-09-10 22:49 #
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Melon
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purist said:
2. I found the secrets to be a bit too obscure - though that could be because I'm rubbish at finding them. We'll see what the others say. I thought the soulsphere secret was particulary difficult - I would never have guessed the texture was a switch never mind finding out what it did!

It's funny you mention that because the soulsphere secret was the only one I found! I've extracted the end of Cell's map into a new map as a starting point for me to work from, but I won't start the actual mapping until tomorrow. (P.S. the first level also had lost souls so you can add them to your monster progression list).

It's no problem for me to work with the brown slime as a damage floor, when I first heard Cell mention sewers a level with lots of damage floors was my first thought for a theme.

I'm going to spend a bit of time thinking how I want to handle the weapon and monster progression for this next level. After playing the previous two levels in UV I ended up with full shells and bullets, some players may also have a super shotgun. I'm not sure if I want to put a super shotgun out in the open just yet, I might make one of my secrets have a super shotgun. I don't personally want to start adding more powerful monsters without guaranteeing a super shotgun though. Hmmmmmm...

Old Post 11-09-10 22:50 #
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purist
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I rarely find secrets so maybe it's fair enough. I completed the map without a lot of difficulty without finding the secrets anyway.

You might want to start your story with the sewergate slamming shut behind you - to explain why you can't go back.

I've added lost souls to the monster list. I got a bit carried away with that really becase there's no reason why monsters have to be added in a certain order as long as they're placed in such a way that does not jolt the difficulty up too soon.

Weapons are obviously a different matter. I thought the ammo was a bit overkill. On my second playthrough I got the backpack and had an abundance. I'm tight with ammo by nature so MAP04 will probably see a depletion in stock. I was planning on keeping the SSG a secret even at this point.

Old Post 11-10-10 07:44 #
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Cell
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purist said:
1. No co-op starts. I know i didn't specify it in the rules but in retrospect there should at least be the option even if it's not tested or otherwise taken into consideration design-wise.
[...]
3. The switch to lower the red key is marked with the REDDOOR texture, which might confuse people into thinking you need a red key to hit it. Though it didn't cause that problem for me.


Actually, I'm used to designing only single player levels. The REDDOOR method is a PCorf-mapping method, which used to confuse even me while playing his wads.

Old Post 11-10-10 12:04 #
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purist
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I'll just add the other starts in the elevator before I host it. I'm sure they'll fit. It doesn't matter if it's designed for SP but I'd like the co-op starts to at least be there. I'm not bothered about DM starts.

Do you think it would spoil the atmosphere to have an exit sign either near the sewer bars or the switch the opens them? It just annoys some people to exit by accident without being able to check they have maxed it.

I think the other confusing thing about the REDDOOR texture is you use it on a switch near the beginning to indicate you need a red key. When I saw the switch that lowers the red key at first I thought 'so I need a red key for this switch too' then I thought 'I'll try it anyway before I go search the rest of the map'. Maybe other peoples experiences are different.

Old Post 11-10-10 12:33 #
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Vaporizer
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Great level. Didn't find any secrets though :(

Old Post 11-10-10 13:50 #
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Cell
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purist said:
I'll just add the other starts in the elevator before I host it. I'm sure they'll fit. It doesn't matter if it's designed for SP but I'd like the co-op starts to at least be there. I'm not bothered about DM starts.

Nothing wrong with it.


Do you think it would spoil the atmosphere to have an exit sign either near the sewer bars or the switch the opens them? It just annoys some people to exit by accident without being able to check they have maxed it.


Maybe it will look a bit cheesy, but never mind.


I think the other confusing thing about the REDDOOR texture is you use it on a switch near the beginning to indicate you need a red key. When I saw the switch that lowers the red key at first I thought 'so I need a red key for this switch too' then I thought 'I'll try it anyway before I go search the rest of the map'. Maybe other peoples experiences are different.


I'm assuming almost everybody have played with 2002ADO or WOS before, at least once. Switches in those WADs are often signed in that way. The other thing is to mention is the yellow key door before it. People must know that they have no chance but try that switch in the middle of the hi-tech, even if the other one is, near the bars locking the sewers, needs the key to open. Other way, getting the yellow key will make no sense.

Last edited by Cell on 11-10-10 at 15:22

Old Post 11-10-10 15:17 #
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Melon
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It seems I missed that there was a backpack in one of the secrets. I'd better take that into consideration too (although it seems most likely that I'll go for a low-ammo level so it shouldn't really impact anything, just give more options to those who found it).

I've also come to the realisation that there's no "waterfall" wall texture for the brown water/slime flat. I'll have to design around that but I can't see it being a problem.

Old Post 11-10-10 19:41 #
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purist
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Cell said:
Nothing wrong with it.


Good. There's plenty of room so I've put them in.


Cell said:
Maybe it will look a bit cheesy, but never mind.


I agree. There's no way to put an exit sign in without making it look worse so we will leave it as it is.


Cell said:
I'm assuming almost everybody have played with 2002ADO or WOS before, at least once. Switches in those WADs are often signed in that way. The other thing is to mention is the yellow key door before it. People must know that they have no chance but try that switch in the middle of the hi-tech, even if the other one is, near the bars locking the sewers, needs the key to open. Other way, getting the yellow key will make no sense.


There's no mistaking that the switch lowers the red key because after you press it you have to pass back through the red key room. I don't think the visual clue is necessary. On the contrary I would say it's distracting. In this level it is not a big problem as it's a small level but in a larger level it could be frustrating. I wouldn't rely on people having played other WADs (except Doom/Doom2) to make sense of the visual clues.

Still, If you feel strongly about it you can keep it in. No one else has mentioned that it's an issue so maybe it was just me. I don't want to dictate other people's levels - it was just my opinion as a playtester.

Have you read your PM yet by the way? I pasted you some alterations to your story and I want to check with you that it's OK.

Old Post 11-10-10 20:04 #
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Cell
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purist said:
Have you read your PM yet by the way? I pasted you some alterations to your story and I want to check with you that it's OK.

I have. And the story itself became more interesting after the changes, so I'm okay with it.

Old Post 11-10-10 20:35 #
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purist
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Great. Other than the name I think your map is ready then. All I've changed is to add player 2 - 4 starts. I'll update the map list as soon as I get chance.

On the subject of the map name does anyone any ideas?

Control Room
Storage Basement
The Sewer Gate

Are all plain but functional & descriptive

Hitting Bottom
The Flush
Crash Landing

Are vague but have a little more verve.

Old Post 11-10-10 21:00 #
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Katamori
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I vote for The Flush or maybe for Storage Basement

Old Post 11-10-10 21:06 #
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Vaporizer
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Crash Landing or The Sewer Gate gets my vote.

Old Post 11-10-10 21:17 #
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Cell
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Storage Basement gets my vote. The titles in connection with the sewers are too spoiler-likes and remember that Melon should make at least the beginning of his map in the sewers.

Old Post 11-11-10 17:06 #
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purist
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OK Storage Basement it is. I've updated the 2nd post with the upload link.

Old Post 11-11-10 18:31 #
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Cell
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The modified version is OK. I'm glad you kept it in its quality.
Just a question: a maximum of how many maps are supposed to be made by one person in the community? Because I want to do further maps than #2 and #7 as well, but actually, there must be some slots between the ones I'll make, as I'm supposed to go on with my project (Five Places). Another thing that I don't want to detract slots from the other mappers who also want to try themselves out in mapping, and neither undertaking too much that I can't deal with properly. All I want to do is just to show that I'm keen on every Doom2 mapping styles and also do it well - maybe some outside viewers who will try the WAD after its release, may think that "Hey, this guy took only techbase-styled levels because he is keen on only E1-like levels!". It's not offensive, tough, but I want to do my best in order to the project, as one of my best friends was the one who had came up with the idea.
Anyway, I'm quite interested how Melon goes on with MAP03.

Last edited by Cell on 11-12-10 at 17:10

Old Post 11-12-10 16:56 #
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purist
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You shouldn't really notice any difference Cell as the only thing I changed was to add co-op starts. Speaking of modified versions I did find 2 more things to fix but they are minor. There are 2 sectors with no flats that cause a crash in Legacy (maybe other ports too?) so I have fixed them. But they are sectors not seen in gameplay so I know you won't mind (one is a small triangle of damage in the lift, the other is beind the grate in the sewer). I've not bothered to upload the new file yet as it's such a small change but it will be in the compiled version when Melon finished MAP03.

I'm happy for you to do more maps but as you say I'd like to space them out. Ideally you could do your third one around say MAP12 but no one has claimed a slot for a while so if no-one else wants a slot we might not get that far! On this subject does anyone else want a second slot before Cell takes a third? Or any other doomers out there want to take their first slot in the project?? I think I will take another but the dates the MAP09 slot falls into don't really suit me.

Old Post 11-12-10 17:33 #
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Cell
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I see that it's a REAL problem. The number of volunteers have dropped after MAP08, even if it was going well in the beginning. Anyway, I'd let people choosing their suiting slots before taking any. Actually: I was keen on taking every fifth map started from #2. But if anyone else would take levels ending with 2 and 7, I'll definitely let it and take e.g. #13 and #19 instead of #12 and #17.

Old Post 11-12-10 17:39 #
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Vaporizer
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I'd like to take another slot or two, or maybe even 4 slots... But if I would take 9th map that would be cheating :P Lets just see if anyone's interested, or maybe Katamori, Melon or Magicsofa is interested in taking another slot.

Old Post 11-12-10 17:51 #
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Cell
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The team actually consists of 7 members so far. I'm sad no one would join, but maybe it will be enough.

Old Post 11-12-10 18:01 #
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Katamori
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Guys, we have to ask other peoples in PM about the join. I know, there are a lot of time, until we reached MAP08, but I think, the better if we load the map slots as fast as we can.

Old Post 11-12-10 18:56 #
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Vaporizer
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Advertising in PMs? No thanks.

Old Post 11-12-10 19:22 #
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