Progressive Fiction (Hadephobia now on /idgames)

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walter confalonieri
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oh well, awesome!
i don't think there could be some problem about that date....

11-23-10 23:51 #

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Cell
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purist said:
Good timing walter. Cell was beginning to worry :-)

I never do worry :D Remember what I've said, June is still far. Btw, if the job has been done still March... eh. I'll have another period of free time by the middle-end of March.

11-24-10 08:59 #

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purist
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That would be MAP18/19 depending whether we're ahead or behind schedule.

I've got a couple of areas left before I can upload the first draft of my map but I'm going to try my best to get finished before the weekend to give magicsofa that bit of extra time.

11-24-10 12:30 #

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Cell
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If #5 is started off, I'll definitely have less time left until #7. Actually, even if my map starts somewhere further from the previous, I'll still have to make head or tail of the story itself.
I'm thinking of the name "Death Government", but for one thing, I don't know yet what the level would look like and for the other thing, it's still a bit far from now on.

11-24-10 16:15 #

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purist
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Sorry guys, I'm so slooow - good thing Cell and Melon worked so fast to buy me time. I was determined to finish tonight but there's still a few things to add and the final area for magicsofa to carry on from. Fingers crossed for tomorrow - I hope when I upload it you all think it's worth the wait!

I think I'll upload it for playtesting as soon as it's in a playable state then fix stuff like aligments in the next update. I'll make sure all the stuff magicsofa needs to start MAP05 are in the beta.

11-25-10 23:36 #

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Cell
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I had already started to read the post today, when I actually realised that "tomorrow" now is today :D. So, maybe I don't have to wait so much.
Texture alignments? It's not an issue for me anymore since I've tracked the Method (with capital M) down: you move crosshair on to wall that has misaligned but same-textured walls next to it, then you press "A". It causes all surrounding walls with the same texture align to that wall's offsets! Simple attempt -> great solution!

11-26-10 12:59 #

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purist
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Cell said:
Texture alignments? It's not an issue for me anymore since I've tracked the Method (with capital M) down: you move crosshair on to wall that has misaligned but same-textured walls next to it, then you press "A". It causes all surrounding walls with the same texture align to that wall's offsets! Simple attempt -> great solution!

Heh heh, don't let Essel hear you say that or he'll misalign you! I do use autoalign quite liberally but sometimes it doesn't work right and then there's also X-axis alignments.

Anyway, I've finished work (job) so I'm starting work (map) and I won't stop until I've got a first draft to upload. Here's the finished story for a tease:

MAP04
Title: Washed Up
Music: E2M2 (Slough of Despair - Doom)
Author: purist
Story:

...The moment you crash into the river you realise you underestimated it's current. As if to confirm so you are pulled violent into jagged rock - knocking the wind out your lungs. You try to struggle against the white rapids but soon you're thrashed again. Your fight gives out and you slip into unconciousness...

...You wake beached on a rocky terrain. By chance just your lower half is submerged in a calm spring that leads off from the river. At the opposite bank of the river you see the asshole end of the hospital you were shit from and bobbing in the stream are the bodies of less fortunate jetsam. One of them gurgles as if to speak and you realise he's still alive! He says you are on a largely uninhabited island where survival is impossible but there may be a small chance of escape by smuggling yourself onto a frieght ship that docks here. His words then become unintelligible and he finally gives out to death.

You wonder how long you were uncouncious for. You guess about an hour as it has darkened but it is not yet night. You decide to try to make good time searching for the dock before the nightfall but your progress is hampered by the teleporting hordes of Hell and an untraversable landscape. You eventually find a passage dug out of a cavern. An officer had holed himself in there until a particulary large beast forced it's way through. You take his security pass to access the dam station. In there you lower the dam to flood out the ravine - allowing you to reach higher ground and the entrance to the dock.

The entrance is guarded by large floating demons and more teleporting zombies. After you dispatch the last of them you throw the entrance switch and hope you're able to hold off whatever awaits you until the ship arrives...

11-26-10 19:41 #

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Cell
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purist said:
Heh heh, don't let Essel hear you say that or he'll misalign you!

I don't get it... what's wrong with using autoalign? o.O

(...)
Music: E2M2 (Slough of Despair - Doom)
(...)

Now what? "The Demons from Adrian's Pen", or "Donna to the Rescue"?

11-26-10 20:02 #

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Vaporizer
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Autoalign is for newbies.

11-26-10 20:21 #

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Cell
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Vaporizer said:
Autoalign is for newbies.

Quite funny that I've tracked it down after mapping for 2 years then! :D

But... what does it exactly mean? If I'm keen enough, I have to do that "pain-in-the-ass" one-by-one texture alignment by myself, even for textures like GSTONE1? WTF?

11-26-10 20:48 #

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purist
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Essel more eloquently and comprehensively describes the pitfalls of auto-align abuse than I could on his hints and tips thread here:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/showthr...0338#post740338

Anyway... I'm not meaning to preach. Especially since my map is now ready for you to get your playtesting claws into:

http://www.hellbent.iwarp.com/box_widget.html

Bear in mind I'm already aware of the aforementioned mis-alignments, most rooms being a bit bare and perhaps some gameplay tweaks.

If you wonder why I've copied and rotated the exit area it's just to make it easier for magicsofa to copy it to MAP05. I'll PM to let him know he's up.

Bed time for me now. Have fun.

11-26-10 23:54 #

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Vaporizer
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Cool level. It didn't take me too long to realize that the blue flat thing saying "dam" is a switch, but I doubt others do.

Also, too many chaingunners for my taste.

11-27-10 05:56 #

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purist
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That's a secret switch so I don't mind it being a little obscure.

If the others agree on the chaigunners I'll look to tone them down, especially on lower difficulties. For some parts of the map they are integral though.

EDIT: I realised last night that I hadn't added the music for my map to the .wad. I'll do that tonight with any other major fixes if any are reported. The little stuff I'll work on bit by bit.

Vaporizer - anything else to note on the level. Did you find the secrets? Did you manage ammo wise? Did you play the level only or as part of the set? What port did you use?

Last edited by purist on 11-27-10 at 07:40

11-27-10 07:12 #

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Vaporizer
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purist said:
That's a secret switch so I don't mind it being a little obscure.

Vaporizer - anything else to note on the level. Did you find the secrets? Did you manage ammo wise? Did you play the level only or as part of the set? What port did you use?

Secret switch? Hmm, didn't know that. What did it do anyways?

Used ZDoom, played from scratch, found all secrets. Didn't run out from ammo.

11-27-10 10:57 #

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Melon
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I played it from a pistol start and mostly enjoyed it. I was hoping by ending my level outside that we'd finally get a level that moved away from tight, dark corridors, so I'm happy. I found both secrets pretty much straight away when I first reached them, and if that blue dam button is a switch, then I have no idea what it does. (I think I pressed it anyway just in case). The level's set piece about opening the dam was really cool. I loved the way it ended.

I had one major problem with your level that really made it less enjoyable for me. I played on PrBoom+ without mouselook, and that chaingunner who's firing at you from that centre rock when you're fighting off the monsters at the dam (I hope you know the one I mean, the rock where the SSG secret is) just kept tearing me to shreds. The problem is that I physically couldn't hit him with Doom's vertical autoaim, it wouldn't target him unless I got really close, by which time he'd taken off half of my health. Either you need to swap him for a projectile enemy or I'd consider adding at least 3 stimpacks around the dam area, seriously. The chaingunners that teleport in with the demons at both spots also kept kicking my ass, most of the time just getting to the dam I'd have anywhere between full health and 40 health, no matter how carefully I tried to play it seemed almost totally random how much health I'd end up with.

Once you get into the dam, the level becomes considerably easier. The main difficulty only really comes from a select few chaingunners and honestly I didn't think that fighting them was as fun as it could be. Your level needs a bit more health.

Just for giggles, I decided to record myself beating the level (PrBoom+, complevel 9). I can't guarantee it will be even remotely interesting to watch though, given I have to play very carefully all the way through. My health was very low from the halfway point, and I think I only really managed to complete it because the ususal suspect chaingunner ended up not firing at me this time. I missed two enemies somewhere, I have no idea where they are.

11-27-10 11:56 #

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purist
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Posts: 1610
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Thanks for the feedback guys.

Vaporizer said:
Secret switch? Hmm, didn't know that. What did it do anyways?

It opens a third secret that I've forgotton to mark!

spoiler - highlight to read:

It opens a chamber in the room behind the blue door. It's a DR open/wait/close trigger so you have to hit it then open the blue door to see it. It contains an invulnerability sphere

Melon said:
I had one major problem with your level that really made it less enjoyable for me. I played on PrBoom+ without mouselook, and that chaingunner who's firing at you from that centre rock when you're fighting off the monsters at the dam (I hope you know the one I mean, the rock where the SSG secret is) just kept tearing me to shreds. The problem is that I physically couldn't hit him with Doom's vertical autoaim, it wouldn't target him unless I got really close, by which time he'd taken off half of my health. Either you need to swap him for a projectile enemy or I'd consider adding at least 3 stimpacks around the dam area, seriously. The chaingunners that teleport in with the demons at both spots also kept kicking my ass, most of the time just getting to the dam I'd have anywhere between full health and 40 health, no matter how carefully I tried to play it seemed almost totally random how much health I'd end up with.

I tested in PRBoom+ and I sort of know what you mean. I didn't have much trouble with him as long as I remembered he was there. I have a soft spot for chaingunners - I love the immediate threat and sense of panic they evoke - so you could say I overuse them. I'll wait for magicsofa's comments (I imagine Cell will playtest too) before I change them but I'll probably tone them down a bit. In my defense though the early ones are purposely there to "tenderise" you a bit to make the otherwise more straightforward later areas more tense. The flaw to me is that you sometimes finished that area with 100 health, ha.

Melon said:
Your level needs a bit more health.

I'm going to add health and armour potions here and there so there will be a bit more for the scavangers :-)

Melon said:
Just for giggles, I decided to record myself beating the level (PrBoom+, complevel 9). I can't guarantee it will be even remotely interesting to watch though, given I have to play very carefully all the way through. My health was very low from the halfway point, and I think I only really managed to complete it because the ususal suspect chaingunner ended up not firing at me this time. I missed two enemies somewhere, I have no idea where they are.

I found it very interesting. It's the first time I've seen someone else demo one of my maps. It even made me giggle a bit when you reached the cavern as you'd obviously been taught a lesson by the spectres :-) The map played out pretty much as I hoped it would in terms of health and ammo dropping at the right spots, though you obviously already knew what to expect. I think the 2 monsters you missed were 2 chaingunners that failed to teleport in the sniper points before the entrance. I'll do a test to see if this is a regular thing. Did you not like this penultimate battle by the way? I thought it played quite well and it executed as I hoped on your demo. I'd be grateful for your further comments/suggestions on this battle in particular.

11-27-10 13:23 #

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Melon
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purist said:
Did you not like this penultimate battle by the way? I thought it played quite well and it executed as I hoped on your demo. I'd be grateful for your further comments/suggestions on this battle in particular.

Is that the final chaingunner area after you've flooded the area? That was fine and the chaingunners are easy enough to get out of the way of despite it being a big open area. It's just that one area where you first reach the dam entrance more than anything.

11-27-10 14:11 #

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purist
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Yeah, that's the area I meant. I'm glad it's not too bad as I really don't want to change it.

I will soften those earlier areas though. Magicsofa can go ahead and make MAP05 on the dock now - unless he has any questions...

11-27-10 14:44 #

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Cell
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I've just played through the level and I'm impressed how it is made. The quality level is fine (although the DAM switch's layout sucks because of using the wrong COMP flat on it), but the major problem I've ecountered that the level is friggin' hard due to those chaingunners. Maybe more than the half of the "popularity" of the map. Cacodemons are just OK, I think the HK in the blue key area is fair, too.

NOTE: What the music will be? Just because E2M2 goes with "Containment Area" and the music "The Demons from Adrian's Pen", not with "Slough of Despair" (E3M2) and "Donna to the Rescue".

Last edited by Cell on 11-27-10 at 17:10

11-27-10 17:05 #

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purist
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Thanks, Cell. The chaingunners are a common complaint. I'll thin them out since it is only MAP04. I suppose you played HMP or lower since the HK is a BOH on UV... good thing as there's even more chaingunners on the highest difficulty. I'm not sure about the COM flat. I tried the others and this was the best I got. I wanted a large 'screen' for the word "DAM" to be written on. The music is E2M2. I was going to use E3M2 as it's a similary themed map but I used E2M2 by mistake. As it happens E2M2 is a much better fit so I'm sticking to it.

Here's my to do list:

1. Add secret tag to invulnerabilty area
2. Add music to .wad
3. Swap chaingunners on SSG rock for imps
4. Half the amount of teleporting chaingunners in ITYTD/HNTR/HMP
5. Maybe replace that lone caco as it doesn't really do anything
6. Litter the map with health/ammo potions
7. Add detail to the bare rooms after the blue door
8. Add ridges, overhangs and general decor to the outdoor areas.

Anything else? magicsofa doesn't need to wait for any of this to get cracking on MAP05.

11-27-10 19:22 #

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Cell
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I've noticed that you left the draft of the ending sector in somewhere else (you had to do that with 45� decision to fit), so, if you don't need it anymore, you might reduce the size of the level by deleting it.

11-28-10 00:16 #

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purist
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I don't need it anymore but I've left it there for magicsofa so he can copy/paste onto his map easier. I'd love to know if he got started early on MAP05 - let me know magicsofa!

I've re-uploaded my .wad with the changes I mentioned previously. You can use the same link as before to download. I've not playtested yet but I did manage a 1min18sec speedrun of the previous version. I didn't record but I'll try to re-create it as it's quite entertaining if I say so myself...

11-28-10 22:34 #

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Cell
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Now, it has become better now. Those f*ck chaingunners ambushed me no more :D
Also, the architecture changed in a positive way. I don't say whether it was bland and dull previously, but way better now.

11-29-10 13:59 #

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purist
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Thanks Cell. I playtested it myself and fixed some pretty major bugs that occured after raising the water caused by the new architecture, added a door line action to the inside of the invuln secret so you no longer can get trapped there, replaced a flat, pegged a couple of door tracks and fixed the problem preventing two chaingunners teleporting to prevent 100% kills. Uploaded again - can be found at the usual link. Testing never ends!

I then playtested the full .wad. It's shaping up quite nice. Each author has a distinctive style that keeps the gameplay varied but at the same time they feel as part of a whole because of the links between maps. One negative I noticed is it does feel like there's an overabundance of ammo. I don't think that's such a problem in the early maps but as we raise the difficulty it might be something we need to keep on a tighter leash.

magicsofa has been a bit quiet on this thread lately, I hope all is going well with MAP05. Some notes for progression:

Weapons: chainsaw, shotgun and chaingun all given freely so far, most players would have also found the SSG as it's a secret in the three maps so far.

Monsters: I only just started introducing mid-level monsters (baron, caco) in MAP04. Other than that we've stuck with zombies, imps, lost souls, demons and spectres.

Misc: brown slime & nukage are damaging floors.

Story: Doomguy has busted out the asylum first via the basement, then the sewer. He jumped from the sewer outpipe into a river and washed ashore where he was told he can escape the island by smuggling himself aboard a freight ship. MAP04 ends with the player hitting a switch to open the entrance to the dock where the ship usually ports.

11-29-10 22:16 #

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magicsofa
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Hey sorry I disappeared - I didn't end up working on this over vacation like I planned :) However I did play through everyones maps, and just started map05. I'll post the story soon

11-30-10 13:34 #

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Cell
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Baron is not a mid-level monster, with the third most of health in the monster palette, but I reckon you wanted to say Knight.
Revenants come when? I've already planned something like this to my level in monster placement:
Zombies, Sergeants, Imps: mostly on the level
Demons, Spectres, Chaingunners, Lost Souls: couples-triads of them
Cacos: 10-15
Pain Elementals: 2-6
Revenants: 5-7
Arachnotrons: 4-6
Mancubi: 3-5
Knights: 4-6
Barons: 1-3
Maybe also an Archvile or an Evil Boss...

EDIT: Playing MAP04 I've noticed a HOM looking out of the dam storage's window from the curved stair.

Last edited by Cell on 11-30-10 at 19:36

11-30-10 19:05 #

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Malinku
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I'll take the next open slot

11-30-10 20:03 #

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purist
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That's not a HOM it's an illusio-mountain! I'll have that fixed for the next update :-)

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the monsters? I was just giving magicsofa an idea of what we've used so far in case he wanted to take that into consideration. I don't want to say "revenants cannot be used before MAPXX" or suchlike. Afterall, Doom2 has a Spider Mastermind in MAP06 and a Cyberdemon in MAP08, which seems too early until you see how they are placed.

@Malinku: Cool. Next slot was MAP17, which will be week 07 MARCH 11 - 13 MARCH 11. I've added you on. If you drop by here early next week MAP05 will hopefully be ready for download and we can't have enough playtesters!

Now the next available slot is MAP18. Volunteers for this slot will need free time during week 14 MAR 11 - 20 MAR 11.

11-30-10 20:21 #

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Cell
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purist said:

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the monsters? I was just giving magicsofa an idea of what we've used so far in case he wanted to take that into consideration. I don't want to say "revenants cannot be used before MAPXX" or suchlike. Afterall, Doom2 has a Spider Mastermind in MAP06 and a Cyberdemon in MAP08, which seems too early until you see how they are placed.

I've only posted the plan of that I'll be using in my level as monster placement. As I don't want to be Plutonia that starts off with several Revenants, Pain Elementals and 2 Mancubi on the first level.
And remember, the MAP06 evil boss shows up just on the hardest difficulty. On 1-3, the Cybie appears first.

12-01-10 17:31 #

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purist
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Oh I see, you mean your MAP07? My next map is MAP09 but I'm not planning my monsters or anything else in advance. I'll go with the flow after seeing how MAP08 turns out. I had ideas in my head how I would do MAP04 but the finished map is nothing like my initial thoughts because MAP03 sent me literally down the river!

12-01-10 18:11 #

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