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dobu gabu maru
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I'm trying to be a man and play through SUNDER for the first time. On ITYTD and with a save-heavy file of course. I'm not that foolish... I hope...

Old Post 06-17-12 11:02 #
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gun_psycho
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I'm now up to Map17 of Speed of Doom, having conquered both secret maps. I'll try to get as much of the levels completed as I can in one sitting, so feel free to call me crazy if you like.

Old Post 06-21-12 08:05 #
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Jimi
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Played Knee-Deep In The Dead, then Shores of Hell, then CH Retro and then DTWID Shores of Hell, which I'm now about half way through.

Old Post 06-21-12 09:16 #
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gun_psycho
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I'm at map22 of Speed of Doom now. Map21's my least favorite because of the whole "tyson" thing.

Edit: That, and ammo is in very short supply.

Old Post 06-21-12 10:03 #
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Nick Perrin
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Finished Whispers of Satan, killer megawad.

To all those playing Sunder, I've been watching youtube videos of it, and there is no attraction to me at all. I realized I have no fun whatsoever playing massive slaughter maps... you just hold down the mouse button and strafe left/right slightly for hours on end. Boo.

Old Post 06-21-12 15:35 #
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gun_psycho
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@Nick Perrin - I would still prefer slaughtermaps over maps that feature massive switch hunts and excessively-confusing layouts. Don't even get me started on maps with voodoo dolls strewn about for no reason. (The last one, thankfully, is very rare.)

Old Post 06-21-12 16:35 #
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Memfis
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Nick Perrin said:
To all those playing Sunder, I've been watching youtube videos of it, and there is no attraction to me at all. I realized I have no fun whatsoever playing massive slaughter maps... you just hold down the mouse button and strafe left/right slightly for hours on end. Boo.

Does this mean that you can beat any Sunder map easily? Record a map11 demo please! ;)

Old Post 06-21-12 16:44 #
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Nick Perrin
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gun_psycho said:
@Nick Perrin - I would still prefer slaughtermaps over maps that feature massive switch hunts and excessively-confusing layouts. Don't even get me started on maps with voodoo dolls strewn about for no reason. (The last one, thankfully, is very rare.)

Confusing switch hunts are ridiculous. Rewarding a player for absurd and arbitrary actions is never fun either!


Memfis said:
Does this mean that you can beat any Sunder map easily? Record a map11 demo please! ;)

Haha no of course not... probably doesn't help watching those UV max videos which are played near perfectly. But regardless, for me, slaughtermaps kind of have that Call of Duty effect - that is to say, 110% intensity for 100% of the time starts to make NO moment feel intense. It really burns things out. It also takes too long with too little variation, and once you get down to a smaller group of monsters (or in some areas right from the start) it really does become the "hold-down-button-strafe-repeatedly" game I mentioned above...

Slaughter maps have their place, but put in context work much better, so their intensity is really felt. For example UAC Ultra map10 ("skagway") has a normal lead-in, then you're outside, need rad suits to survive, and are bombarded with monsters. By some slaughtermap standards, the monster count is still low, but compared to the rest of the episode it's a slaughter. The outdoor section is fun, intense and cleverly put together, and makes hordes of monsters scary and a blast to fight.

Also, building up to slaughters in a megawad works well too.

Old Post 06-21-12 16:53 #
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Phobus
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I have to say, I agree with Nick Perrin - I don't mind a bit of slaughter when it has it's place in a larger, more diverse work, but just playing endless horde after endless horde will wear thin for me regardless of how well designed it is.

Old Post 06-21-12 22:06 #
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j4rio
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Regarding the slaughter debate, it might seem to an observer that it's just boring strafe and fire holding bore, but as a player, you have to tactizate much more than you've probably ever done so in doom. Too bad thoughts of player never get reflected enough to make observer realise this.

Old Post 06-21-12 23:37 #
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darkreaver
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Had a co-op blast through PC_CP.wad again. Some really nice gems in there. And what the hell was I thinking when I made that map in there...seriously. Some really brutal and unfair traps :S

Old Post 06-22-12 00:57 #
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Nick Perrin
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j4rio said:
Regarding the slaughter debate, it might seem to an observer that it's just boring strafe and fire holding bore, but as a player, you have to tactizate much more than you've probably ever done so in doom. Too bad thoughts of player never get reflected enough to make observer realise this.


I have played, not just watched, it's only Sunder specifically that I haven't played and only watched. It's also clear that the player who mastered UV-maxing Sunder knew the maps inside out and planned every step... but to me, none of that is really all that fun anyway. It really does come down to personal taste, but my experience with slaughter maps is as written in my post above.

Old Post 06-22-12 03:17 #
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gun_psycho
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@Nick Perrin - Would maps that just have tons of enemies spread out over a tremendously long map (that is, without slaughter segments) still count as slaughtermaps? (To me, those would be more like marathon levels.)

Edit: Anyways, I'm up to Death's Nocturne. It's a fairly small level last I played it, but still decently challenging.

Last edited by gun_psycho on 06-22-12 at 07:43

Old Post 06-22-12 05:05 #
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Phobus
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I'd say you're right to go with the "marathon level" label in those instances. Slaughter only really applies to huge hordes being fought in one go, usually with a similarly inflated arsenal.

Old Post 06-22-12 08:47 #
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j4rio
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Nick Perrin said:


I have played, not just watched, it's only Sunder specifically that I haven't played and only watched. It's also clear that the player who mastered UV-maxing Sunder knew the maps inside out and planned every step... but to me, none of that is really all that fun anyway. It really does come down to personal taste, but my experience with slaughter maps is as written in my post above.



If the guy whose uvmaxes you've watched is okuplok(90), then keep in mind that he is argueably the most skilled doom player ever. With his skill, even sunder really seems like a boring walk in park.

Old Post 06-22-12 09:17 #
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gun_psycho
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Well, slaughtermap debates aside, I'm now up to Hais Temple in Speed of Doom (Map27), in other words, the home stretch. The last two maps before Map30 are gonna be real marathon levels, especially Map28, Twilight Massacre.

Edit: And Speed of Doom is finished. Map30 was a bitch-and-a-half to say the least, but what an epic IOS map it was.

Last edited by gun_psycho on 06-22-12 at 20:33

Old Post 06-22-12 18:04 #
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Jimi
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Just started playing Requiem. Played the first 4 maps. So far it feels just the kind of megawad I've wanted to play. Music sounds great too. I think I played some of it years ago. It felt a bit familiar.

Old Post 06-25-12 13:37 #
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ellmo
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Jimi said:
Just started playing Requiem. Played the first 4 maps. So far it feels just the kind of megawad I've wanted to play. Music sounds great too. I think I played some of it years ago. It felt a bit familiar.

Music is good and some of the layout ideas are fantastic, but in many places I feel like the autor had copletely no idea how to design fight, vide - MAP24 aka "I only know how to add Revenants lol"

Old Post 06-25-12 21:57 #
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gun_psycho
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Currently playing Number One Kill: The Next Generation. It's non-linear, but surprisingly it has its biggest monster count fairly early on in Map06 at 400+ monsters. Even then, most of them are the lightweight enemies.

I'll try out the Memento Mori series once I finish that one up.

Old Post 06-25-12 22:55 #
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Capellan
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Jimi said:
Just started playing Requiem. Played the first 4 maps. So far it feels just the kind of megawad I've wanted to play. Music sounds great too. I think I played some of it years ago. It felt a bit familiar.


Due to circumstances relating to the wad's development, it ends up being a very uneven set of maps. Which isn't to say that there aren't lots of good bits. It definitely has a strong set of opening levels, for instance.

Old Post 06-26-12 01:16 #
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vdgg
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ellmo said:
Music is good and some of the layout ideas are fantastic, but in many places I feel like the autor had copletely no idea how to design fight, vide - MAP24 aka "I only know how to add Revenants lol"
Now I realize how much of a "love or hate" level it is...

Old Post 06-26-12 08:07 #
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gun_psycho
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Finished up the Number One Kill: TNG mapset. Next up, I'll likely take on the first Memento Mori.

Old Post 06-26-12 20:54 #
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ellmo
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vdgg said:
Now I realize how much of a "love or hate" level it is...

Wow. I thought I'm was only one who has such strong ambivalent feelings about this map.

Old Post 06-26-12 23:36 #
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gun_psycho
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I see Requiem's Map24's gonna be a fun level to do when I get around to doing that megawad.

Old Post 06-27-12 00:29 #
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Jimi
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Well, I got through that level 24, wasn't exactly my favourite either, though I had almost full ammo when I entered the level.. So far I've liked the first 5 or so levels the best.. and the small levels by Adam Windsor have been fun.

Old Post 07-02-12 20:31 #
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Capellan
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Jimi said:
the small levels by Adam Windsor have been fun.


Well, it makes a nice change from the usual "WTF are these crappy little levels doing in here" :)

Map05 of Requiem is a good 'un. Bill McClendon didn't release a lot of stuff for Doom, but what he did release was good work. He went on to become "the" Quake reviews guy.

Old Post 07-02-12 23:52 #
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Obsidian
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I'm currently on Scythe. I'm up to MAP24 on UV. It's merciless....

Old Post 07-03-12 02:11 #
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Processingcontrol
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Wait till you get to Map30...

Old Post 07-03-12 02:12 #
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sgt dopey
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Playing through Alien Vendetta. The 6th map is really freaking hard on UV with no ammo and low health near the end

Old Post 07-03-12 02:12 #
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Processingcontrol
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AV Map06 is an awesome level, definitely one of my favorites in the wad. I remember that map being the first one where I couldn't fuck around if I wanted to survive. But wait till you get to Map27... :P

Old Post 07-03-12 02:27 #
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