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Springy
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Sergeant_Mark_IV said:
I still don't understand it. I downloaded V13, and in comparison with the current version, all weapons fells slower, sounds are much more irritating, blood is much more unrealistic and exaggerated, too much smoke, and many other stuff that everyone that doesn't like the mod says, but on much bigger proportions, and I personally couldn't spot anything on v13 that is better than on v17.

I used to be able to play a hell of a lot with 13b but when version 17 came out on Halloween and I loaded it up I only spent about 20 minutes on it and haven't touched it since.

Old Post 02-10-13 20:28 #
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Eris Falling
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esselfortium said:

[Citation needed]



Citation given

Mark didn't exactly help matters though, and he DID put the thing in there to begin with, so let's not put this all on Essel.

Old Post 02-10-13 20:45 #
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Glaice
formerly Mr. Chris


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esselfortium said:

[Citation needed]



What about the posts on DW FB group?


That would be pretty sad, considering that everything Sgt Mark IV has made is overhyped crap with few, if any, redeeming qualities.


-January 26 at 2:58pm being the response to an image meme saying "What if Sergeant Mark IV is Id Software testing possible DOOM IV features on old school Doom players?"


Dávid Norbert, I "dissed the project" because it's not very good, and Sgt Mark IV is a talentless hack. Sorry we disagree there, but please don't put words in my mouth. That a growing number of players are treating it as "the way Doom was always meant to be," and playing every wad with it in spite of the fact that it completely alters and unbalances the gameplay of any level it's tried on, only makes its already-present mediocrity more irritating.


Ok, we get it. You don't like Mr. Mark IV or his other works, why is it coming off as you have a hate boner for him or something? Other than some of the fans and disliking the gameplay of the mod, what more other than the recent scandal you dug up could you do to garner your dislike for him? (Other than some of his inflammatory replies)

The hitscanners will be nerfed for v18 if you needed to know.

This is about as deep as I'll get into the discussion because this is just plain ridiculous, despite I am not even being inflammatory. A section of this topic really should be split off and helled because it has nothing to do with the actual development of the mod.

Old Post 02-10-13 20:54 #
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esselfortium
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Facebook posts I made a week ago that weren't referenced anywhere in this thread are the cause of what happened in this thread? My power and influence must be much farther-reaching than I realize, apparently, unless of course you're the one doing the reaching.

In case you haven't noticed, I've hardly posted in this thread at all. The only remotely inflammatory thing I posted in here was in response to being called a jealous butthurt babby, which I don't need to justify.

Old Post 02-10-13 21:00 #
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Platinum Shell
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I whole-heartedly second what Chris said. Please and Thanks.

Old Post 02-10-13 21:03 #
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dew
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Mr. Chris said:
A section of this topic really should be split off and helled because it has nothing to do with the actual development of the mod.

yeah, perhaps. everything AFTER essel's whistleblowing post would be appropriate. cause that's, you know, development-related.

Old Post 02-10-13 21:20 #
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kmxexii
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From my viewpoint this bout of public dissatisfaction with Brutal Doom is more multi-faceted than you guys are suggesting. On the other hand I doubt there's any meaningful discussion to be had here, judging from the way the posters in this thread are reacting to each other. People that dislike Brutal Doom and / or its author(s) aren't going to be won over and supporters likewise. Does all this stuff need to be in the dev thread? Probably not. But I don't want to see all of it just brushed under the rug.

Old Post 02-10-13 21:22 #
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mrthejoshmon
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I came here for news, and got forum war 2, directors cut for free.

if this discussion about how bad Mark is was a DVD, it would take a super human to enjoy it in the slightest way, and it would make great toilet paper!

now, I have got to get back to being harassed by Terry's clan on the youtube's, maybe that will provide me with information I need on this mod.

Old Post 02-10-13 21:35 #
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kmxexii
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mrthejoshmon said:
maybe that will provide me with information I need on this mod.


Or you could visit the ZDoom thread.

Old Post 02-10-13 21:51 #
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mrthejoshmon
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kmxexii said:


Or you could visit the ZDoom thread.


thanks.

Old Post 02-10-13 21:56 #
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Processingcontrol
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Honestly I don't see how saying that someone is jealous of you is any worse than calling someone a talentless hack.

Just my 2˘

Old Post 02-10-13 22:33 #
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scalliano
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mrthejoshmon said:
I came here for news, and got forum war 2, directors cut for free.

if this discussion about how bad Mark is was a DVD, it would take a super human to enjoy it in the slightest way, and it would make great toilet paper!



You use DVD's to wipe your arse? That's an expensive personal hygiene solution.

Old Post 02-10-13 23:10 #
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Katamori
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esselfortium said:

[Citation needed]



Eris did it above. Honestly, if someone makes something at least decent for a community with enthusiasm, the least is that you don't hurt him! Seriously, he made maps and his BRDoom mod for us and your answer is to blame him because of a single f@ckin' sentence?! This is what it pisses me off.

I don't care who is Sgt_Mark...if you'd do this thing with me or with Chris or with Tormentor or anyone... I'd be similarly angry.

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Old Post 02-10-13 23:47 #
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kmxexii
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Grazza said:
I don't care about your mod or any vendettas or complexes you may have, but if I see any further posts like this, you can expect to be removed from the forums, at the very least temporarily.

And more generally, some posters seem to have decided that Essel is somehow "the DW moderator that you can flame and troll without any consequences". If you attack a DW moderator, you are attacking DW, and will be dealt with accordingly. Thanks for your attention.



Quoted for re-emphasis

Old Post 02-11-13 00:00 #
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Doomkid
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Hey, So I'd really hate to post something that's on-topic, but me and a few others I play with came up with a great idea for Brutal Doom, since we play it all the time.

Maybe something along the lines of "Brutal Doom Lite". There are countless mods out there (Star Wars, Batman, Strain, even my own Megawads) that replace many of the enemy graphics and gun functionalities. The idea behind Brutal Lite would be that it only adds in the extra blood puffs and splats on the wall.

A way to demonstrate this idea is to play Brutal doom with Skulltag actors and monsters enabled. Summon a skulltag specific monster, for example a Cacolantern, and shoot it up with whatever gun you like. You'll notice the limbs and body parts don't go flying (since there's no mod for this monster in BD) and you can't Gib the cacolantern, but he still spurts blood all over the place and onto the player's screen.

I think this idea could help to keep a lot of old TC's alive and kicking. I imagine it would be incredibly simple - Just strip everything besides the excess blood GFX and Decorate info, with whatever necessary tweaks, naturally.

As a big time fan of Brutal Doom, I can safely say it would be awesome to play, oh say, "Operation: Arctic Wolf" or "Batman TC" with tons of excess blood. Hopefully at some stage, there will be time for this idea. :)

Old Post 02-11-13 00:57 #
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Glaice
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A "Brutal Doom Lite" does exist currently but it is based off a really old version (like 0.9 or 0.10). I heard there will be one made based off 0.18 eventually.

I don't get the entire attack a moderator = attack the site. It is towards an individual, we are not a collective with no separate opinions.

Old Post 02-11-13 01:00 #
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Doomkid
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Oh wow, ask and you shall recieve. However, the version I just looked up on the ZDoom forums still replaces monster graphics, which makes it incompatable with TC's.

I really think it would be a good idea to just go the step further and make it fully mod-compatable. Honestly, I've never seen a server with Brutal Lite and a weapons mod, it just seems a bit pointless because Burtal's existing weapon mods are farking awesome.

I hope Sgt. Mark hears my plea, this idea would make Brutal Lite a very viable mod indeed. As I said before, something like Chex Quest with tons of blood everywhere? I'd play it non stop!

EDIT: Real Guns + Simpsons Doom + "Brutal Lite"... Good fucking lord.

Last edited by Doomkid on 02-11-13 at 01:18

Old Post 02-11-13 01:09 #
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ellmo
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kmxexii said:
From my viewpoint this bout of public dissatisfaction with Brutal Doom is more multi-faceted than you guys are suggesting. On the other hand I doubt there's any meaningful discussion to be had here, judging from the way the posters in this thread are reacting to each other. People that dislike Brutal Doom and / or its author(s) aren't going to be won over and supporters likewise. Does all this stuff need to be in the dev thread? Probably not. But I don't want to see all of it just brushed under the rug.
I can't agree with this stronly enough. This is why I avoided posting here.


esselfortium said:

[Citation needed]



Eris Falling said:


Citation given

Mark didn't exactly help matters though, and he DID put the thing in there to begin with, so let's not put this all on Essel.



Katamori said:
Eris did it above. Honestly, if someone makes something at least decent for a community with enthusiasm, the least is that you don't hurt him! Seriously, he made maps and his BRDoom mod for us and your answer is to blame him because of a single f@ckin' sentence?! This is what it pisses me off.

I don't care who is Sgt_Mark...if you'd do this thing with me or with Chris or with Tormentor or anyone... I'd be similarly angry.

Strangely enough the linked post contains a quote from the code, a quote from ZDoom Forums and a short notice from essel stating that there are parties involved in covering this up, so he's posting it for others to see.

I can hardly count the outburst that followed as essel's doing.


Mr. Chris said:
I don't get the entire attack a moderator = attack the site. It is towards an individual, we are not a collective with no separate opinions.
People here are either attacking essel for bringing up the racist comment or attacking him personally - both are reasons for any DW mod to react.

That said I would like you all to read kmxexii's post 10 times:

I doubt there's any meaningful discussion to be had here, judging from the way the posters in this thread are reacting to each other. People that dislike Brutal Doom and / or its author(s) aren't going to be won over and supporters likewise

We just have to agree to disagree on these matters, but when mods decide that what goes on may be harmful to the community or the image of the community, you have to honour that, even if you disagree.
It's their forum.

Last edited by ellmo on 02-11-13 at 01:21

Old Post 02-11-13 01:16 #
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Blue Shadow
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Posts: 308
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Doomkid92 said:
I think this idea could help to keep a lot of old TC's alive and kicking.

If there is something I hate, is over-praise. Not just in this particular case. No. I hate it in general. And this is another thing that irritates me about Brutal Doom and (some of) its fanbase. They actually think - No, they believe that these mods/TCs are worthless and are a waste of time to play on their own, and somehow Brutal Doom with its "glory" makes them worthwhile again.

Seriously?!...


As I said before, something like Chex Quest with tons of blood everywhere? I'd play it non stop!

I don't see it work, honestly. I mean, Chex Quest is like a non-violent version of Doom. Enemies don't die when you kill them. They get teleported to their home planet or somesuch, instead (as far as I'm aware).

Old Post 02-11-13 02:18 #
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PRIMEVAL
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Posts: 1985
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Doomkid92 said:
Hey, So I'd really hate to post something that's on-topic, but me and a few others I play with came up with a great idea for Brutal Doom, since we play it all the time.

Maybe something along the lines of "Brutal Doom Lite". There are countless mods out there (Star Wars, Batman, Strain, even my own Megawads) that replace many of the enemy graphics and gun functionalities. The idea behind Brutal Lite would be that it only adds in the extra blood puffs and splats on the wall.

A way to demonstrate this idea is to play Brutal doom with Skulltag actors and monsters enabled. Summon a skulltag specific monster, for example a Cacolantern, and shoot it up with whatever gun you like. You'll notice the limbs and body parts don't go flying (since there's no mod for this monster in BD) and you can't Gib the cacolantern, but he still spurts blood all over the place and onto the player's screen.

I think this idea could help to keep a lot of old TC's alive and kicking. I imagine it would be incredibly simple - Just strip everything besides the excess blood GFX and Decorate info, with whatever necessary tweaks, naturally.

As a big time fan of Brutal Doom, I can safely say it would be awesome to play, oh say, "Operation: Arctic Wolf" or "Batman TC" with tons of excess blood. Hopefully at some stage, there will be time for this idea. :)



Would Nashgore be something to your liking? I'm using it in one of my mods and it doesn't come with new sprites or anything. Just makes things more... gorier. I'm surprised that's actually a word, heh.

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Old Post 02-11-13 02:21 #
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VylePhinder
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Mr. Chris said:
I don't get the entire attack a moderator = attack the site. It is towards an individual, we are not a collective with no separate opinions.


THANK YOU!!!

I'm glad someone finally said that to Grazza's post. I would have, but I'm so new to the forum's that I could be losered/banned if one of the mods suspects I may have farted while having this page up.

Honestly, what I don't get is that all of us have to "suck it up", "grow some balls", or "thicken our skin" if anyone attacks, trolls, or otherwise instigates a war with us. But, moderators can't ignore hate-posts? Last I checked, the best way to lead was by example...

A mod on a power-trip is as bad as a rent-a-cop on a power-trip. It would just make you look silly.

I mean no disrespect, but I do kind of find it curious that Essel has been directly involved in so many forum wars in recent history.

Anyway, to post something on-topic, I am eager to see the differences in the new BD version, as I have only just recently (v17) seen BD, at all. I am a fan of BD, and I must say that those who claim the blood is unrealistic... well, that's probably not too true. It may be over the top for a video game, but realistically speaking, I'm sure a small metal object travelling at, roughly, 6,000 mph (using M16 as a base reference), going through a former human's face, would create quite a blood spatter. More than most would probably imagine, and probably more than even Brutal Doom illustrates, I would guess.

Last edited by VylePhinder on 02-11-13 at 08:10

Old Post 02-11-13 05:35 #
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Phml
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The politically correct crusade against BD here is not only gratuitous, dishonest and fabricated; it's counterproductive. Turning this emotional is an implicit admission you can't argue against BD with logic, and censorship just reinforces that - can't fight their ideas? Let's just remove their ability to talk!

This is particulary idiotic because this mod has no shortage of legitimate flaws to pick apart. Not only the above little show hasn't fooled anyone, it has done a disservice to anyone who dislikes BD and its impact on the Doom community, as we are now all lumped in the fear-mongering thin-skinned conservative side.

Old Post 02-11-13 10:10 #
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Tarnsman
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Phml said:
As we are now all lumped in the fear-mongering thin-skinned conservative side.


Last time I checked Liberals are the ones who throw a shitfit about people saying offensive words. Conservatives just get butthurt when two gay guys touch their junk.

Old Post 02-11-13 11:11 #
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ellmo
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VylePhinder said:
A mod on a power-trip is as bad as a rent-a-cop on a power-trip. It would just make you look silly.

People who think mods are there to change custom titles, answer all questions and pay all maintenance costs look even more silly.


Phml said:
The politically correct crusade against BD here is not only gratuitous, dishonest and fabricated; it's counterproductive. Turning this emotional is an implicit admission you can't argue against BD with logic, and censorship just reinforces that - can't fight their ideas? Let's just remove their ability to talk!
What a fucking nonsense. This has nothing to do with political corectness and noone silenced anyone - until we got to personal and insulting arguments, which is precisely why forums are moderated. Nobody was punished for saying that "blood is good" or that "you can't take a nigger joke", somebody was punished for attacking mods despite their pleads to stop it.

Also - who are you to say that this is dishonest? I find most of the stuff in BD honestly and seriously distasteful. God knows I made numerous racist jokes on many occasions (heh) so I didn't comment on that, as it would be hypocritical. But when someone does it publicly they have to be ready for consequences.

How exactly do you argue against BD with Logic?

God, people always confuse freedom of speech with total anarchy.

Last edited by ellmo on 02-11-13 at 11:55

Old Post 02-11-13 11:50 #
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Springy
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Blue Shadow said:

I don't see it work, honestly. I mean, Chex Quest is like a non-violent version of Doom. Enemies don't die when you kill them. They get teleported to their home planet or somesuch, instead (as far as I'm aware).


My fist almost went through my monitor when I read the suggestion for brutal Chex Quest. Chex Quest is indeed a non violent Doom engine game. The monsters are teleported to their home planet and it also doesn't have any blood, just slime. It's main purpose was to create a game (kind of like Doom) for little children and to also promote a brand of cereal called Chex. I believe I read somewhere before that it is also the first game to have been distributed via boxes of cereal in the States. I personally think that a brutal version will not settle well with the community.

Old Post 02-11-13 12:48 #
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schwerpunk
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How about some BRUTAL teleportation effects! Teleportation sparkles everywhere, and pattern buffer goo on your visor! Maybe the enemies can say things as you banish them, too, like "Nooo! Now I have to visit the in-laws! Curse yooouuu, Che--" *zwoop*

Although imagining the mutilated corpses being teleported back to their homeworld (I'm imagining the family living room, where it telefrags the family's adorable alien dog) is good for a chuckle. If Brutal Doom is taking the more violent aspects of Doom to their natural extent (sit back down, Tom Hall (aw, I made myself sad now)), then Brutal Chex would just be an out-and-out satire, and no one in their right mind should take that seriously.

I would laugh if it would cause a resurgence of newbies interested in Chex Quest, though. **

Old Post 02-11-13 13:31 #
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Glaice
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Seriously, we should have moved on by now (ZDoom and Zandronum forums have), why not Doomworld?

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Old Post 02-11-13 16:07 #
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Technician
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Mr. Chris said:
Seriously, we should have moved on by now (ZDoom and Zandronum forums have), why not Doomworld?
For those communities, at the first sight of drama, threads are locked and bans are made.

Old Post 02-11-13 18:28 #
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Glaice
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Technician said:
For those communities, at the first sight of drama, threads are locked and bans are made.


With ZDoom, the conversation of the racist comment in the code was in a separate thread and with Zandronum the download links were removed until the next version that removes it.

In both forums, Sarge is still able to post as well because it seems they have moved on from the drama (ZDoom yes, and Zandronum mostly has)

Old Post 02-11-13 18:39 #
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BlackFish
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Mr. Chris said:


With ZDoom, the conversation of the racist comment in the code was in a separate thread



Nope. It was moved to a separate thread to then be locked, and then to be auto-pruned.



In both forums, Sarge is still able to post as well because it seems they have moved on from the drama



Because discussion in the zdoom forum was prevented, and Sarge didn't directly attack the moderator.

As ellmo pointed out, while I didn't agree with how WW swept the discussion under the rug, I have to respect the decision because he moderates the forum, much like Essel moderates this one. I'm sure it was a knee jerk reaction as the Zdoom BD thread has had a number of flamewars and he simply didn't want to put up with another one.

Last edited by BlackFish on 02-11-13 at 18:47

Old Post 02-11-13 18:42 #
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