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Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > WADs & Mods > [WIP] The Shores of Zdoom (Oct 13: new pictures on page 6)
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Graf Zahl
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printz said:

3. In-fighting better be back, no Graf Zahl excuse, because ZDoom now has better means to handle it.




With KDiZD it was very late in the game when testing revealed that several key spots in the levels turned into a joke with infighting on (most notably much of Z1M4 and the big room in Z1M9.) Back then the means to reduce it were insufficient plus it was far too late to redesign everything to make it work as intended.

So, with everybody (hopefully) aware of the problems with careless monster placement it should be avoidable to disable infighting.

Old Post 06-06-11 14:58 #
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Tormentor667
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Various people said:
I hope it will be easier/better/less boring/bla than KDiZD.

Expect it to be better in every single term that was critizised in KDiZD. We have learned a lot during the development of the Episode 1 remake and for Episode 2, things are by far better organized than before.

Old Post 06-06-11 15:25 #
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Dee
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this looks so sick

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Old Post 06-06-11 17:13 #
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Necros20
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This looks great, I said a while back the Shores of Hell was my favorite episode from the original Doom. Can't wait to see how it will be recreated here. BTW what will the 3rd episode be called? Zinferno? :P

Old Post 06-06-11 17:40 #
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brinks
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Necros20 said:
BTW what will the 3rd episode be called? Zinferno? :P


No. It will be called InfernoZ to appeal more to the urban youth demographic.

Old Post 06-06-11 17:54 #
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Marnetmar
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Will E2M4 have the same haunting and surreal atmosphere the original had?

Old Post 06-06-11 19:34 #
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esselfortium
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Marnetmar said:
Will E2M4 have the same haunting and surreal atmosphere the original had?

M..maybe? It will have atmosphere. It may or may not have the same atmosphere, depending on how you looked at the original.

It's effectively impossible to replicate how everyone interprets every map, so that's not really our goal, because it could only possibly lead to disappointment. These are our own interpretations intended as a new Deimos-inspired experience, not a replacement for your own memories of episode 2. Because, really, episode 2 already exists for that.

Old Post 06-06-11 20:07 #
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Alwaysdoomed
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The Screenshots look great, i just hope you dont make the maps too long and drawn out like in kdizd.

will there be any new from scratch monsters in this wad or will the new monsters just be sprite edits?

also i hope theres no hexen/heretic monsters in this =P

other then that i look forward to playing this wad, hopefully it doesnt take 1000 years to complete though =[

Old Post 06-06-11 20:57 #
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Graf Zahl
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Alwaysdoomed said:
The Screenshots look great, i just hope you dont make the maps too long and drawn out like in kdizd.



Why not? Is your attention span not sufficient? :P I'd be disappointed if this could be played through in half the time KDiZD took to finish.


Alwaysdoomed said:
also i hope theres no hexen/heretic monsters in this =P



This mod will not contain any third party copyrighted material, including graphics from Doom 2, because it has to comply to the letter with the original Doom's license to make the release of modified levels legitimate.

Old Post 06-06-11 21:28 #
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esselfortium
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Graf Zahl said:


Why not? Is your attention span not sufficient? :P


There won't be anything like the green key quest in z1m7, we can safely announce that much.

Old Post 06-06-11 21:35 #
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Death Egg
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I just thought, at the end of KDiZD the replacement of two Barons is a monster the size of a large building. What's going to be replacing the freakin' Cyberdemon?!

Old Post 06-06-11 21:46 #
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Alwaysdoomed
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Graf Zahl said:


is your attention span not sufficient?



its not that its just the maps took way way longer to complete than the originals took. I dont mind if you made the maps take 5-10 minutes longer to complete than the originals but when it takes 20+ more minutes than the originals it really just makes the maps feel less like the originals.

This is just my opinion anyways.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:00 #
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Marnetmar
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TrueDude said:
I just thought, at the end of KDiZD the replacement of two Barons is a monster the size of a large building. What's going to be replacing the freakin' Cyberdemon?!


http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_llqcmihIFO1qzvw5po1_400.jpg

Old Post 06-06-11 22:02 #
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printz
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Alwaysdoomed said:


its not that its just the maps took way way longer to complete than the originals took. I dont mind if you made the maps take 5-10 minutes longer to complete than the originals but when it takes 20+ more minutes than the originals it really just makes the maps feel less like the originals.

This is just my opinion anyways.

FWIW, the original Inferno E3M5 and E3M6 each took me more than an hour to finish the first time I played them :)

Old Post 06-06-11 22:16 #
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walter confalonieri
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all right, i loved Knee-deep in the Zdoom and it's one of the best wads ever made for my taste, after some things i've played when i was 13 and still inside inside my brain like Aliens TC, Fava Beans and Obitictuary... and well, i always want to see what you did on next step, and i must admit the result looks awesome, but for get the excellence it must be played, just for revive and feel back the original emotions i've got when i played for the first time the episode 2...

I just wandering what you're doing on the titlemap, are you have in mind to use Blood on the walls as a opening song, like as in KDiZD you used this one (as first, i thinking it was something recorded from you guys!)....

anyway, awesome as i expected...

Old Post 06-06-11 22:17 #
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printz
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esselfortium said:

M..maybe? It will have atmosphere. It may or may not have the same atmosphere, depending on how you looked at the original.

It's effectively impossible to replicate how everyone interprets every map, so that's not really our goal, because it could only possibly lead to disappointment. These are our own interpretations intended as a new Deimos-inspired experience, not a replacement for your own memories of episode 2. Because, really, episode 2 already exists for that.

More relevant is to ask whether the maps will have a similar haunting atmosphere with parts of Z1M8.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:18 #
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Marnetmar
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printz said:
FWIW, the original Inferno E3M5 and E3M6 each took me more than an hour to finish the first time I played them :)


Really? I understand E3M6, but when I played E3M5 for the first time I was disappointed at how quickly I found the exit. Maybe I just had good luck.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:18 #
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Dutch Doomer
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The architecture in those shots show alot of variation in terms of quality.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:19 #
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esselfortium
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dutch devil said:
The architecture in those shots show alot of variation in terms of quality.

Would you mind elaborating? I'm curious to know your thoughts on them.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:24 #
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Graf Zahl
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Alwaysdoomed said:


its not that its just the maps took way way longer to complete than the originals took. I dont mind if you made the maps take 5-10 minutes longer to complete than the originals but when it takes 20+ more minutes than the originals it really just makes the maps feel less like the originals.

This is just my opinion anyways.




I guess you just missed the point of KDiZD then.

For the record, I normally play through E1 in <40 minutes with 100% kills and 100% secrets so by your reasoning KDiZD should have been completable in twice that.

My best time for E2 is around 50 minutes so again, if ZSoZD took me less than 2 hours (which would be the upper limit of 'acceptable' according to you I'd be severerly disappointed.



esselfortium said:

There won't be anything like the green key quest in z1m7, we can safely announce that much.




What 'Quest'? All you needed to do to get the green key was to hit a switch in the area behind the red door. Since when is finding all keys a quest? It's a staple of Doom gameplay, nothing more, nothing less and I have seen vanilla maps with more extreme key hunting scenarios.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:33 #
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Marnetmar
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Graf Zahl said:
What 'Quest'? All you needed to do to get the green key was to hit a switch in the area behind the red door.


And how is someone who's never played KDIZD before supposed to know that?

Old Post 06-06-11 22:36 #
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esselfortium
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I'll clarify: the parts of KDiZD that required the player to backtrack one or more times across the entire level are not making an appearance here.

You're welcome.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:40 #
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Melon
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The screenshots look totally awesome, I particularly like the first 3, nice clean style going on there.

I'll admit that I wasn't a huge fan of KDiZD, but there's absolutely no doubt that it was a AAA mod that had no end of fantastic talent applied to it, the gameplay just wasn't my style. Here's hoping for another top quality wad.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:40 #
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Sodaholic
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Just curious, will this use 3d floors? By the time this will be finished, there will probably already be an official build with 3d floor support by then.

I think you could do a ton of interesting architecture with 3d floors, and would make it even more complex (architecture-wise) than KDiZD. :)

Obviously, it would be best to not overuse them (for framerate purposes), but it would certainly add some depth to the levels.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:45 #
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Dutch Doomer
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esselfortium said:

Would you mind elaborating? I'm curious to know your thoughts on them.


That hell shot with the Cacodemon looks a few steps down when compared to some of the others. I was beginning to think that the shot came from a different project or something. I most shots I see lots of cool zdoom features like slopes, while in some others shots I don't see any of that.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:50 #
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esselfortium
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3D floors are being used, but currently only in a very limited capacity.

Dutch Devil: If it's any consolation, there's quite a bit more to that scene than what you can see in a still picture.

Old Post 06-06-11 22:51 #
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Dutch Doomer
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I see enough to know that it could use some more attention.

Old Post 06-06-11 23:01 #
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Graf Zahl
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esselfortium said:
I'll clarify: the parts of KDiZD that required the player to backtrack one or more times across the entire level are not making an appearance here.




Concerning that 2 bits of info:

1. The original E1M7 also required quite a bit of backtracking to get all the keys so this was at least partially inherited from here.
2. Just to put a few things into perspective, the main backtracking route in the map from the area near the blue door to the area near the grey door takes 15-20 seconds and has to be passed 3 or 4 times, I think. So even if you add some safety margin that's 2 minutes in a map that takes close to half an hour to finish. It's not that you have to run around for minutes at a time just to get somewhere.

Old Post 06-06-11 23:08 #
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Pirx
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can't wait to play this. e2m2 is my favorite of this episode, mainly for a nice introduction to berserk, hunting imps behind crates and bashing their faces in. all with that eerie music.

Old Post 06-06-11 23:46 #
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Sodaholic
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Torr Samaho said:
can't wait to play this. e2m2 is my favorite of this episode, mainly for a nice introduction to berserk, hunting imps behind crates and bashing their faces in. all with that eerie music.

I agree, that level was tight. :) Is it possible that we could please see more screens of Z2M2?

Old Post 06-07-11 00:14 #
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