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Seele00TextOnly
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Hi, BTSX playtester and Essel's very own partner-in-crime here; I must confess I was the mastermind behind this little joke.


KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
But consider, O clever one, those 4 fake screens you put up for April Fool's are, in a real sense, not fake at all. Because truth is that those 4 screens capture perfectly the underlying reality of this whole project. A largely undifferentiated mass of levels that pass by in a homogenous blur from one to the next. A lot like those 4 screens do. And to think, you were trying to be funny.
Well, um, that was the joke. I'm sorry your feelings got hurt when we mocked your gravely serious complaint about the mapset, but to say that's the "underlying reality of this whole project" is to again completely disregard that a) you haven't seen the whole project, and b) to make it sound like you haven't even actually played or seen what has already been released in the first place (see Fisk's post).

And to think, you were trying to be serious.


Memfis said:
Maybe if all sprites were made from scratch as well specifically to match the visual style of btsx, it would look much better to me, but as of now the whole product is a bit of a mishmash in my opinion. The last screenshot looks so cool at first glance but then I see these simplistic Doom sprites and limited architecture/detail (I mean if you compare it to more modern games with 3D engines that allow much more stuff like slopes, 3d floors etc, I'm not saying that it is bad in Doom's context) and the whole thing collapses.
This kind of baffles me most of all... I realize you're speaking speculatively and sort of off the cuff with that, but replace all the spites? You mean the enemies too, or just the trees and such? If it's the enemies, then why just change what they look like, one would want to recode their behavior and attacks too, to make them new enemies. Basically that would change the whole gameplay and require learning new balancing techniques and... you do realize this is supposed to be Doom, not something completely different?

As for replacing the more general sprites, I suppose that could have been done but doesn't seem very necessary... I agree that they honestly look more at home here than in the original texture sets, heretical that may be to say.

Old Post 04-04-13 19:40 #
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Not Jabba
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In case it was ever unclear, I just wanted to say that I'm more excited about the release of all three BTSX episodes than, like, anything.

Old Post 04-04-13 19:42 #
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Tarnsman
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90% of the changes to any map in BTSX were entirely because it DID NOT WORK IN INTENDED SOURCEPORT™, Not for any desire of "perfection". In fact you want to know what most playtesting feedback actually looks like for BTSX? It looks like this...


Hawkwind said about one of my E2 maps
Quite enjoyable.

My findings ...

1. Line 3118 missing mid texture.
2. T40 needs to be moved away from line 68. If player is at sector 22 the player is blocked by it - vanilla infinitely tall actors.
3. It appears that lines 1419, 1420 and 1421 are not required ?
4. There is an issue with the floors of sectors 800 and 154 in glboom+. This can be fixed by using the method at sectors 100/93.
5. I think it would be better to teleport the player to sector 22 from sector 730. This way the player can pick up the soulsphere if he didn't do so at the start of the level.
6. Sector 476 should do damage.
7. SpiderMasterminds cannot teleport due to their large radius. Extending sectors 757 and 786 further north should fix.

This pwad requires the latest resource wad dated 31/12/12.


^Elitist perfection, pointing out missing textures and stuck monsters.

Old Post 04-04-13 19:45 #
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Csonicgo


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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

Well well well... It seems as though you have once again, despite your best efforts, become a pawn in one of my rather elaborate ruses, and it seems as though the end result of said ruse has left your state of being of a lesser quality than before you were dealt the card hidden up my sleeve, while being none the wiser! And yes, while it is true that you will eventually recover from this recent turn of events, it remains unclear whether or not your social status on Doomworld Forums will remain at its current level, or if it will take a turn for the worst! After all is said and done, at the end of the day, you will have to accept the fact that you got the short end of the deal! I hold no remorse or regret, for I am and always shall be........ A MASTER RUSEMAN!




Remember your last Custom Title? Maybe you need it again.

Old Post 04-04-13 20:10 #
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esselfortium
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:


Oh essel you're simply too clever for me.

But consider, O clever one, those 4 fake screens you put up for April Fool's are, in a real sense, not fake at all. Because truth is that those 4 screens capture perfectly the underlying reality of this whole project. A largely undifferentiated mass of levels that pass by in a homogenous blur from one to the next. A lot like those 4 screens do. And to think, you were trying to be funny.

Don't get me wrong, as I said, the textures are really very good, and the levels from episode 1 were also very good in and of themselves, but the project does, and will probably continue to suffer from, well, a kind of perfectionism that somehow manages to remove the individuality and uniqueness from the levels as a whole. So, in short, this project could have been and should have been much more than this. Silly thing is, you will probably never see this.

Anyway, I've said all I am going to say. I'd better let you get back to being much cleverer than me. Thanks for your post. :D



Looking at the last few pages of this thread again, I'm going to guess I'm being trolled because yesterday you called it a "top quality mapset". So, okay.

Old Post 04-04-13 20:15 #
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traversd
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st.alfonzo said:
...


Can no longer read alfonzos posts without them sounding like doom radio in my head...

Curse you.

Old Post 04-04-13 20:33 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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esselfortium said:


Looking at the last few pages of this thread again, I'm going to guess I'm being trolled because yesterday you called it a "top quality mapset". So, okay.




So let's cut to the chase. Yes it will be a quality project.

In your earlier post, you have basically called me, "Too stupid to be able to tell that the 4 fake screens were all from the same room." Ok, so you said it in a much more offhanded, "we're all just joking here," way, but putting a lighthearted spin on it doesn't really change the underlying message. Normally I'd run with the whole discretion thing, but that particular post doesn't deserve much discretion. Your posting manages to often sit in that wide uncanny valley between "constructively critical" and "sarcastic and pompous." Normally I'm inclined to give these posts the benefit of the doubt and I'll try and assume you were being constructively critical even when it doesn't much seem that way, but in this case, you moved out of that gray area and into frankly insulting territory. So if it makes me look bad or whatever in having some right of reply to a post like that, then so be it. Yeah I admit, this post is probably not much better than exactly what I am accusing you of doing, but whatever.

Which brings me to my point. If you ever wonder where the idea comes from that you impose some sort of overarching control over everything and everyone you work with, well you could start with the fact that people on these forums are only ever going to know you through your posts. (And same for me.) And when your posts can come across as kinda superior, how do we not draw the conclusion that you bring those same attributes to the projects that you manage?

Now obviously you don't do this, as people speak highly of working with you, and they wouldn't do that if you were sarcastic and pompous with all of them, but seriously, maybe, learn to show the same basic decency to the wider community that you apparently reserve for those you work closely with.

Just a thought.

Anyway, done derailing.

Old Post 04-04-13 20:36 #
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Eris Falling
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I do believe essel said that those 4 fool screenshots were all taken from the same room.

Now, while I've not played BTSX through in it's entirety, I did write the Doom Wiki articles. As such, I have noclipped through the majority of the levels. Apart from the fact that the levels are all techbases with the same sky I fail to see how these levels are clones of each other which is what I think some of the people here are suggesting. To me, the levels look no more similar to each other than the levels of E1. The only difference is that there are 24 maps, rather than 9. I'm quite excited actually about playing BTSX properly and not dying on MAP02.

Or was everyone looking at the three hub levels?

Old Post 04-04-13 20:39 #
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grouchbag
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I think the pictures look very pretty.Episode 1 was great!Am looking forward to Episode 2.Very much....

Old Post 04-04-13 20:46 #
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Memfis
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Seele00TextOnly said:
This kind of baffles me most of all... I realize you're speaking speculatively and sort of off the cuff with that, but replace all the spites? You mean the enemies too, or just the trees and such?

I'm talking about replacing all sprites because the iwad ones just don't go well with the visual style in my opinion. Or maybe this visual style isn't suitable for Doom or at least for vanilla Doom at all. The thing is, the more realistic and detailed a texture/sprite is, the more it is obvious that it is essentially a piece of paper. Therefore, as strange as it may sound, primitive and cartoony graphics actually often look a lot more believable in such games as Doom. Because instead of looking at a flat picture of a rock or of a computer panel, you're looking at something that just symbolically represents them. The rest is done by your imagination, which does much better job. Reality is kind of boring anyway. Just a humble opinion.

Old Post 04-04-13 21:48 #
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Tarnsman
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BTSX textures are realistic? WUT!?

Old Post 04-04-13 22:06 #
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Gez
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The BTSX textures looked to me like (palette issues aside) they could be used alongside the stock Doom II textures and it'd still feel as coherent as Doom II itself.

Old Post 04-04-13 22:20 #
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esselfortium
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Gez said:
The BTSX textures looked to me like (palette issues aside) they could be used alongside the stock Doom II textures and it'd still feel as coherent as Doom II itself.

Yeah, a lot of them actually can fit reasonably well alongside Doom's textures, as long as conflicts with similar textures are avoided (i.e. Doom's computer textures are going to look out of place next to BTSX's differently-shaded ones, but you could probably mix some of BTSX's bricks or concrete textures in a map with some of Doom's own base materials without turning heads).

The primary influences behind BTSX's art direction were Doom, Quake 2, and other related mid-90s shooters like Hexen 2 and Doom 64 -- they're what I learned from, and in some cases, pretty directly homaged (i.e. cloned).

Old Post 04-04-13 22:30 #
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Xaser
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Regarding the textures-vs-realism bit, I've always been a fan of the idea of textures-as-detail. Given the pixel-heavy and low-detail of 90's-era games, I find it natural to have extra details on textures regardless of any "flatness" that may occur. Having said that, I've found that BTSX's texture set is just as usable (if not more so) than Doom's in that regard, and don't find the style out of place. My two cents, anyway.

Old Post 04-04-13 23:01 #
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Fisk
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:
If you ever wonder where the idea comes from that you impose some sort of overarching control over everything and everyone you work with, well you could start with the fact that people on these forums are only ever going to know you through your posts. (And same for me.) And when your posts can come across as kinda superior, how do we not draw the conclusion that you bring those same attributes to the projects that you manage?


I've been working on a map for BTSX E3 for something like 2 years now and this has more or less been my interaction with essel on the subject:


oh wow, that area looks pretty cool


i think this area might look better if you change this texture


well I'd rather not do REJECT hacking or any of the really tricky stuff, if it means I break something by saving the map can you just leave it out?


hey, can you please finish this map? it's been over a year


i recently ran into a limit called 'solidsegs', make sure you check your map in visplane explorer for this, it's potentially fatal!


ew, i hate that texture. can you replace it with something from the MTDKGY set?


please work on your map, it looks amazing, and it's been 2 years :(


In other words what I'm saying is you pretty much have no idea what me and the 20+ other mappers working on this project have experienced when working with essel and I'm sure we'd all appreciate it if you didn't just assume he's an asshole that controls everything and doesn't allow us to be original, it's frankly insulting to our (or at lest my) efforts

Old Post 04-05-13 04:16 #
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NaturalTvventy
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Yea, to put the blame of the saminess (which I agree exists) of e1 on Essel is misplaced. Like all social memes, DOOM level styles evolve and grow off of each other. We all just take other people's stuff and mold it a bit in a different direction. Essel is but one man, incapable of ruling over something as organic as a bunch of mappers evolving together.

Old Post 04-05-13 07:26 #
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Doom_user
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I found a game breaking bug in 0.99f map 19.

Early in the level you have the choice to go up these stairs to the right

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/2208/55817386.png

or through this door to the left

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/9375/11893049.png

If you go up the stairs to the right, and use the teleporter that leads to the second part of the map, everything will work correctly.

However, if you go through the door to the left instead, then use the teleporter in the secret area to access the second part of the map, problems will occur much later.

Near the end of the map, if you try to use this teleporter to return to the very beginning of the level

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3445/74640860.png

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/821/12655548.png

You'll be stuck in the ground, unable to escape, because the teleporter at the beginning of the level never lowered.

Last edited by Doom_user on 04-12-13 at 19:51

Old Post 04-08-13 19:34 #
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RottKing
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Yeah that bug has been found and fixed a few months ago, thanks for reporting it though

Old Post 04-08-13 19:39 #
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esselfortium
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Thanks for the report. I apologize for how long it's been since the last update -- we're currently trying to get as many issues ironed out as possible, in hopes that the next release (soon, I promise!) will be good and stable.

Old Post 04-08-13 19:49 #
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BlackFish
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http://i.imgur.com/YmIsNCi.jpg
http://files.drdteam.org/index.php/...2B8/btsxhud.zip

Had this idea since I looked at the BTSX Statusbar and thought, "hey, this could be a neat status bar". It needs tweaks (Like the bulbs, which Essel says it needs additive lighting), but I decided to release an initial build that supports unmodified Zdoom. I plan on making a future version that supports Samsara and BD as well. For now, enjoy. Figured I'd post it here since it has some relevance.

Credits to Ptoing and Essel for the graphics base.

Old Post 04-11-13 23:40 #
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Lippeth
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That HUD fits perfectly! Even if it's not in the official version I will definitely use it.

Old Post 04-12-13 07:23 #
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killer2
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Yeah, I agree, that hud's beautiful! I usually have hud off because it feels to blocky and cluttering, but that one is just about revealing enough that I could say it's perfect for me.

A suggestion for the team:could you add the mappers' codename/forumname between their name and surname? I am sure I am not the only one that doesn't know who is who.

Old Post 04-12-13 11:01 #
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Eris Falling
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A question for the musicians of BTSX-E1: Was the intermission music supposed to sound exactly like Doom II's at the start? I've always been caught out by it, expecting the bass to come in :P


A suggestion for the team:could you add the mappers' codename/forumname between their name and surname? I am sure I am not the only one that doesn't know who is who.


The Doom Wiki has this information

And for those who can't be bothered to mouse over those links

Off the top of my head
Michael Mancuso -> Essel
Richard Frei -> Tarnsman
Paul DeBruyne -> skillsaw
Walker Wright -> Pavera
Bjorn Östmann -> Vader
Trevor Primmett -> iori
Brett Harrell -> Mechadon
Kim Bach -> Torn
John Oksasoglu -> Tango
Matt Cibulas -> RottKing

Any others should be fairly easy to work out

Last edited by Eris Falling on 04-12-13 at 15:51

Old Post 04-12-13 15:39 #
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SFoZ911
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Very cool HUD BlackFish.

Old Post 04-12-13 15:56 #
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Xaser
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If it makes anybody feel better, I'm credited as "Xaser Acheron" in everything, so that'll at least make at least one of the names stupid-easy to figure out. :P

Regarding the intermission music, I'm pretty sure it's intentional. Ask Jimmy. ;)

Old Post 04-12-13 15:59 #
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Eris Falling
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Xaser said:
stupid


'Twas a time when I first saw the Acheron, and then thought Xaser Acheron was your real name.

Or maybe it is, who knows ;)

From what I know, there's some names in E2 that aren't on my list, I only used the E1 mappers.
Can't say I'm looking forward to going over the BTSX E1 map articles for a third time, but it's my own fault.

Old Post 04-12-13 16:08 #
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Gez
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Eris Falling said:
A question for the musicians of BTSX-E1: Was the intermission music supposed to sound exactly like Doom II's at the start?

I wouldn't say "exactly". It's quite similar, but quite slower.

Copy both doom2's and btsx's intermission tracks in the same wad, then listen to the first few seconds of both alternatively in SLADE and you'll see. Err, hear.

Old Post 04-12-13 16:18 #
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Tarnsman
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killer2 said:
A suggestion for the team:could you add the mappers' codename/forumname between their name and surname? I am sure I am not the only one that doesn't know who is who.


It's in the text file.

Old Post 04-12-13 16:55 #
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Jimmy
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The drum roll at the beginning of the intermission track was written from scratch without the one from D_DM2INT on hand. I wanted something similar but not entirely the same. So when I accidentally did one which sounded almost identical, and kinda liked it, it stayed that way. :P

__________________
Jimmy's YouTube Channel - All my recent stuff!
Jimmy's MIDI Powerhouse - More than 150 original MIDIs!
Jimmy's TwitchTV Stream! - Tune in for Doom and music!
Jimmy's Blog of Death - I make terrible posts here.

Old Post 04-12-13 18:50 #
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Phml
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Seele00TextOnly's name seemed so odd I just had to look up his post history, ended up here, started reading the thread backwards and confused the real E2 pictures for the April Fools.

The only thing that makes this even better is knowing at least one person is going to be offended enough they will have to convince themselves I'm not being genuine here.

Old Post 04-20-13 22:35 #
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