Multiverse - Community Project for Boom

[Grain of Salt]

[TimeOfDeath666]

Quake doesn't "need" slopes/3dfloors, depending on what map you pick, and even then you could still fake a lot of stuff in doom2/boom format. I think faking stuff goes a long way in Doom, or even just compromising with Doom.

I think what I'd like best about this project is if it was doom2/boom compatible without new resources. Filesize estimation? But ZDoom/Hexen is cool too. Earlier this year I remade the Nut House level from Redneck Rampage, just gotta texture it. I had to make a custom palette though, cuz the blue-ish textures turned to grey in Doom.

Could I take the Redneck Rampage spot?

[Death Egg]

eternal slumber said:

Could I take the Redneck Rampage spot?

Sure, I'll put you down for it.

[elic]

I'll probably leave if this becomes a zdoom WAD. I'm not against zdoom or anything, but the reason I joined this was to challenge myself in order to create a map that seemed similar to the build levels in the restrictive boom format.

Also I hate it when non-zdoom maps are in zdoom projects.

[Death Egg]

Processingcontrol said:

I'll probably leave if this becomes a zdoom WAD. I'm not against zdoom or anything, but the reason I joined this was to challenge myself in order to create a map that seemed similar to the build levels in the restrictive boom format.

Also I hate it when non-zdoom maps are in zdoom projects.

I'm personally hoping this stays as a Boom-only project only myself, but I'm keeping that option open only if it ends up being completely necessary. Right now it doesn't seem like it.

[Malinku]

I'll take the Shadow warrior slot.

[boris]

Vermil said:

Alien Cabal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi4MAnnvfmE

According to the Wikipedia page of that game it uses a modified Doom 2 engine (source for that is a guy who worked on the game). But the game has 3d floors, slopes, horizontally moving walls... also the the description of the level editor (which doesn't run on 64 bit Windows) sounds very different from the way Doom maps are made. Of course the datafile doesn't seem to be WAD-based either. Anybody know more about this?

[Death Egg]

boris said:

According to the Wikipedia page of that game it uses a modified Doom 2 engine (source for that is a guy who worked on the game). But the game has 3d floors, slopes, horizontally moving walls... also the the description of the level editor (which doesn't run on 64 bit Windows) sounds very different from the way Doom maps are made. Of course the datafile doesn't seem to be WAD-based either. Anybody know more about this?

I don't know, I'd think people would know by now of another game that used the Doom engine. I think it's probably just a misinformed person that thought that FPS with sprites = using Doom engine.

[lupinx-Kassman]

As far as the boom vs. zdoom argument goes, I think this is very possible as a boom project.

Scripting? Most of this can be accomplished through voodoo dolls on conveyer belts. You would be surprised with the impressive stuff you can pull off with this alone, it just doesn't seem apparent because it isn't used nearly as often as it could be.

Slopes? Has anyone seen dutch devil's riot control screenshots, or played darkening 2? They manage to portray a quake and quake 2 atmosphere respectively without the use of slopes or 3d floors. There are plenty more wads like this. Besides, with some trickery, these two elements can be faked too. People have been faking 3d floors in boom and even vanilla for quite a while, and if you are willing to allow boom-compatible ports to get around the seg limit and absolutely want your slopes, they can be faked with mini-sectors.

Besides, I feel that these limitations pose a creative challenge, and will make the project more interesting.

[Vaporizer]

.

[Du Mhan Yhu]

I got the resources, Map31 Bad Toys is a go.

[Vaporizer]

.

[Walter confetti]

lupinx-Kassman said:

I am down for a hovertank 3d map!

I like to see how do you render the "rescue hostages" concept of that game... also for enemy is barely easily, since there's hovertanks and huge demon-thingy monsters all over the game.... from what i've can see...

also, awesome concept truedude! I thinking to joining this with a map... but it's all in my mind now...

[Vermil]

It’s already been stated that Doom monsters and weapons are to be used.

But I think that before anyone really starts mapping, it needs to be made completely clear what exactly is to be used from each game; textures, scenery mobjs etc etc.

Will any scenery mobjs be taken from the various games?

Will they be simple graphic replacements for Doom things?

Will Dehacked be used in some form to replace some non-scenery items with new scenery items?

Will Decorate, Ded etc be used solely to implement scenery items from the various games?

This is confusing because one of TrueDudes screenshots shows a non Doom thing in it (the eyeball on the floor).

[Death Egg]

Vermil said:

It’s already been stated that Doom monsters and weapons are to be used.

But I think that before anyone really starts mapping, it needs to be made completely clear what exactly is to be used from each game; textures, scenery mobjs etc etc.

Textures will be from the original games.

Vermil said:

Will any scenery mobjs be taken from the various games?

Will they be simple graphic replacements for Doom things?

[...]

This is confusing because one of TrueDudes screenshots shows a non Doom thing in it (the eyeball on the floor).

That's what I'm currently doing in that screenshot, the eyeball is replacing the candle sprite right now.

Vermil said:

Will Dehacked be used in some form to replace some non-scenery items with new scenery items?

Will Decorate, Ded etc be used solely to implement scenery items from the various games?

I will allow Dehacked for decoration, but not Decorate as it doesn't work for Boom. Thinking about this now, it seems it would be best to have a list of what decoration slots will be used by who, since there's only a limited amount in Doom... I don't really understand much about Dehacked but I presume that you can only replace pre-existing things, correct?

[purist]

I think the project's aim should be to take inspiration from the Arcadia De-make, which also took mostly stock Doom 2 resources to reproduce the "spirit" of a Bioshock level, the result was something more of a hybrid than a technical exersize.

[Lorenzo]

I'm in.

I take Quake 2.

I would prefer to use zdoom or even gzdoom with 3d floors...

A question: will there be an official resources pack for this project or we can use whatever we want?

Another question: the maps have to recreated a map of the games or just have the same "sense" of?

[Death Egg]

purist said:

I think the project's aim should be to take inspiration from the Arcadia De-make, which also took mostly stock Doom 2 resources to reproduce the "spirit" of a Bioshock level, the result was something more of a hybrid than a technical exersize.

The only problem that I have with that is that some of the early maps, specifically Maze War, Hover Tank 3D, and Catacomb 3-D, can't really be merged with Doom so easily, considering two of those are basically mazes and the third is CGA graphics. Adding Doom textures to those would just make them lose any charm they had and seem like average first-time Doom maps.

Then there's the fact that another 6 maps are based on games that are completely flat, those being Wolfenstein 3D, Ken's Labyrinth, ShadowCaster, Blake Stone, Corridor 7, and Bad Toys.

Lorenzo said:

I'm in.

I take Quake 2.

I would prefer to use zdoom or even gzdoom with 3d floors...

A question: will there be an official resources pack for this project or we can use whatever we want?

Another question: the maps have to recreated a map of the games or just have the same "sense" of?

I hadn't thought about this but yeah, I was hoping for new maps in the spirit of the original. Homages are completely welcome though.

[Vermil]

purist said:

I think the project's aim should be to take inspiration from the Arcadia De-make, which also took mostly stock Doom 2 resources to reproduce the "spirit" of a Bioshock level, the result was something more of a hybrid than a technical exersize.

Indeed, I agree with that. That is how I think this project should go given the Boom and no Decorate, Ded etc limitations (i.e. sharing a dozen odd scenery item slots between 32 games is silly).

Though it require some more thought as to what games and what themes from each game are in the project.

For instance, Blake Stone is entirely 'tech base'. While Corridor 7 has both 'tech base', 'alien converted' and 'alien world' levels.

If both games are in this project, the Corridor 7 level would probably have to be inspired by the games 'alien converted' or 'alien world' levels rather than it's 'tech base' levels. To keep the variety.

TrueDude said:

The only problem that I have with that is that some of the early maps, specifically Maze War, Hover Tank 3D, and Catacomb 3-D, can't really be merged with Doom so easily, considering two of those are basically mazes and the third is CGA graphics. Adding Doom textures to those would just make them lose any charm they had and seem like average first-time Doom maps.

No reason several games couldn't perhaps be combined into a single map (i.e. a single map inspired by both Blake Stone and Corridor 7's 'tech base' levels)?

[Xaser]

Hmm. I can't decide whether this is really cool or utterly strange. I imagine the resource wad would be bastard-huge, but I'm curious to see how some of the maps turn out.

If I ever did something for this, it'd be Marathon or Hacx, though the latter brings up the big question on which version to base it on... :P

[Death Egg]

Vermil said:

Though it require some more thought as to what games and what themes from each game are in the project.

For instance, Blake Stone is entirely 'tech base'. While Corridor 7 has both 'tech base', 'alien converted' and 'alien world' levels.

If both games are in this project, the Corridor 7 level would probably have to be inspired by the games 'alien converted' or 'alien world' levels rather than it's 'tech base' levels. To keep the variety.

This is a good point. For example, System Shock, Marathon, and Dark Forces come after one another, so maybe have System Shock based on a space station, (obviously, that's all that game was) Marathon could be based on either of it's sequels, and Dark Forces could be set on one of the planet levels.

Vermil said:

No reason several games couldn't perhaps be combined into a single map (i.e. a single map inspired by both Blake Stone and Corridor 7's 'tech base' levels)?

I'm not sure how well the resources of Corridor 7 and Blake Stone would mix.

Xaser said:

Hmm. I can't decide whether this is really cool or utterly strange.

This coming from the man who created E5M1. :P

[purist]

TrueDude said:

The only problem that I have with that is that some of the early maps, specifically Maze War, Hover Tank 3D, and Catacomb 3-D, can't really be merged with Doom so easily, considering two of those are basically mazes and the third is CGA graphics. Adding Doom textures to those would just make them lose any charm they had and seem like average first-time Doom maps.

With custom resources they will still seem like average first-time Doom maps but with novelty resources. Either mappers will need to be creative with level design or a re-think of the list of games chosen.

I very much doubt I'll be able to contribute to this project and it's your idea so you should take it in whatever direction you prefer but this is just my opinion based on the creative success and popularity of a similar project in Arcadia De-make vs. a perceived community distate for mix/matched resources imported into Doom.

[Rambosee]

Sign me up for the wolf 3d map, although I'm higly certain that most people will skip it.

[Megalyth]

purist said:

Either mappers will need to be creative with level design or a re-think of the list of games chosen.

I would prefer the former, from a gameplay standpoint. I don't see any reason to limit maps based on Wolf3D engine games to a single plane. While huge, sprawling maps with significant height differences might be taking it too far, a bit of variation in the level design would be a nice spin on the themes, in my opinion.

I'm really tempted to try to make a map for this myself, but the truth is that I've either never played or didn't like most of the games on the list, the ones that aren't claimed yet, anyway. Of the remaining few, I'm sure there are mappers here who would come up with something far better than I could.

[Memfis]

Mazewar map is kinda possible without custom textures. I can make pure white walls:



WAD link: http://www.mediafire.com/?8t984sdx83d42f3

[Gez]

TrueDude said:

Textures will be from the original games.

It's going to look ugly as all hell unless you use a port that allows non-paletted textures and rendering. I guess it's possible with GLBoom+.

[Lorenzo]

I like the idea... hell demons invading ALL universes.

To say it all, I had this identical idea some years ago, but I had to discard it because I had not enough resources to do a megawad quoting all old FPS.

But if this is going as a community project, I want it!!!

[elic]

TrueDude said:

That's what I'm currently doing in that screenshot, the eyeball is replacing the candle sprite right now.

But won't that mean that no one else could use the candle sprite?

I think that it'd be cool if near the end of each map the resources from the next level would appear mixed in with the ones for that map, making it feel like a crossroads between the two universes.

[Death Egg]

Processingcontrol said:

But won't that mean that no one else could use the candle sprite?

I think that it'd be cool if near the end of each map the resources from the next level would appear mixed in with the ones for that map, making it feel like a crossroads between the two universes.

I will probably end up removing the eyeball sprite, or find another way for the eyeball to fit in.

I like that idea you have for making maps fit together! That way the maps won't end up feeling completely unconnected.

[esselfortium]

Memfis said:

Mazewar map is kinda possible without custom textures. I can make pure white walls:

http://i53.tinypic.com/244p0ra.png

WAD link: http://www.mediafire.com/?8t984sdx83d42f3

And it only took 714 sidedefs to do half of a 128x256 room :P

Gez said:

It's going to look ugly as all hell unless you use a port that allows non-paletted textures and rendering. I guess it's possible with GLBoom+.

Not really. Textures from almost any game can be made to look good in Doom's colors. Palette-rape only happens if you're trying to batch-translate graphics directly to the palette without making the needed color adjustments first.