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mrthejoshmon
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plums said:
No worries, I got it.
Ah, thanks!

Just as a side note, I was planning on adding more items around in DM (like some more shotguns, ammo and bonuses) but if you think it is fine as it is then don't worry about that.

Old Post 07-24-14 00:25 #
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plums
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I have literally no idea about DM balance, so I wouldn't feel comfortable making changes like that myself. perhaps nub_hat or someone else could comment.

If you want to change the map in that regard, I'd say wait for the next beta update (should be in the next day or two) and then make updates on that. If you're bandwidth-limited I can also post your map only in a separate file.

Old Post 07-24-14 00:41 #
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Jaws In Space
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If Odamex Nitro # 150 is anything to go by, then only maps 15, 17, 18, 25, 27, 28, & 30 are subpar as far as DM is concerned.

I'll take care of redoing maps 25 & 30, both of which I was responsible for. So once you finish up plums go ahead & send me a copy so I can take care of those maps.

Old Post 07-24-14 03:19 #
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kildeth
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mrthejoshmon said:
Damn, I will get to it!

(The SSG DM only secret was a wee bit of a dick move on my part, I think we should not tag it as secret though so there is a chance for people to still not know about it/make it easier to 100% for newer or less patient players)

EDIT: I actually can't fix that myself, if I remember correctly somebody else tweaked the DM on my map (Thus I don't have the same version archived as you guys do :/)



Yeah I agree, leave it as a non-secret easter eggy type thing. It seems more special that way for some reason.

Old Post 07-24-14 05:54 #
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plums
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Seems my fix for MAP17 in NOVA11b1 did break demo compatibility after all. Going to spend some time seeing if I can come up with a solution that is not too hacky.

All other reported bugs are fixed I think.

Old Post 07-24-14 18:32 #
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plums
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NOVA 1.1 beta2: https://www.mediafire.com/?uc04isdqbzqruvn get b3 from the post below instead.

As per before, this has only been mildly tested. My plan, now that Crispy Doom should support NOVA fully, it to have a run through it over the next little while, testing both things at once. If no one reports any problems in that time, and I don't find anything myself, I'll call it fit for release.

I've engineered a solution for the stuck door in MAP17 that still preserves compatibility with Veinen's demo (no guarantees for other demos). It's a bit of a hack - in complevel 2, the problematic door will stay open now. If this is acceptable to EvilNed and kildeth, then good; otherwise I will fix it the "normal" way and lose demo compatibility. (Actually I've just realized my solution is incomplete. Will do a better fix soon. Same idea though.)
Ignore all that, I have a much better solution with dummy sectors. I want to test it a bit more before posting, but it looks like it works fine for demo compatibility while restoring proper complevel 2 behaviour.

I believe this version fixes all problems with DM starts, but that's another thing that could use more thorough testing.

Changes since b1:

MAP03
  • SSG available in single player.
  • Rocket launcher (thing 172, MP only) changed to plasma rifle.

MAP07
  • Exit door can be opened from inside, for DM.

MAP10
  • Deleted DM start from inside exit sector. (Thing still exists, but with no flags, for demo compatibility.)

MAP14
  • Secret sector moved from 480 to 488 (teleport destination sector).

MAP17
  • Fixed complevel 2 door while preserving demo compatibility with Veinen's demo. See above notes.
  • Removed some of the unnecessary linedef actions on linedefs 3897 etc., per previous update.

Dehacked
  • Both Doom-format and Boom-format Dehacked string lumps are included. Ports that can read the Boom-format will do so, ports that can't will fall back to the Doom-format one. Works on all ports I've tried it on so far, but more tests with lesser-used ports would be nice.

Last edited by plums on 07-25-14 at 10:10

Old Post 07-25-14 04:45 #
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plums
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Couldn't sleep, and my better fix for MAP17 turned out to work easily, so here's 1.1 beta3: http://www.mediafire.com/download/u...p0/NOVA11b3.zip

The fix for MAP17 is a lot less ugly; there's an extra dummy sector off to the side of that door, but unless you use IDDT or open a map editor you're not likely to notice. Hopefully this is OK with EvilNed & kildeth. Everything else behaves as it should, and this is likely to be compatible with any demos recorded on the 1.0 version thus far.

I also tweaked the formatting on the text files, and added the credits to MAP14's music.

Also, am I correct in assuming that MAP29's music was arranged by Paul D, since he's the one that posted the correction for it?

Old Post 07-25-14 10:09 #
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kildeth
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I'm ok with it if you're satisfied plums. Here's what Paul D had to say about Map29's soundtrack, and also Map31 if you missed it:


Map 29's track is "Castle Cimmeria" theme from the Lands Of Lore: Throne of Chaos soundtrack, Composed by Frank Klepacki, Paul S. Mudra & Dwight K. Okahara

Map 31's midi is actually "ohno2.mid", "quickfast.mid" was not used in Nova, but it was used in dobu gabu maru's standalone map (the one he made for nova, and decided it was too big so released it on its own)


Not sure if this means Paul D arranged the soundtrack though. You could always just credit the composers I suppose.

Old Post 07-25-14 10:31 #
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plums
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I did see that, but I don't know if Lands of Lore has a MIDI soundtrack, or if someone made an arrangement of the music, and who if so. Well, it's credited to Paul D for now...

edit: Looks like it was ripped from the game. Attribution fixed in the text file, but I'm not going to re-upload just for that.

Last edited by plums on 07-25-14 at 11:36

Old Post 07-25-14 11:26 #
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kildeth
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Anyone actively testing this? I would but I'm busy with studies at the moment. Just want to know if any other issues are being uncovered or if everything is good now.

Old Post 08-01-14 05:10 #
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plums
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I finished a full playthrough recently and have uncovered a number of very small issues, and one or two less-small ones. Haven't gotten to fixing them yet; takin' a break!

One issue that comes up a few times is that there are several levels where this bug causes serious problems, in ports that do not fix it. I don't think I'm going to correct it though, since it appears that most ports do fix that bug, and on some of the maps, correcting for it would be quite intrusive. It's maybe a good idea to post about it in the NOVA 2 thread, which I will do shortly.

Actually, while I'm posting, here are some questions for people, on slight problems that I found that don't necessarily need changing. (You can answer for any of these if you want, kildeth.)

kildeth: You never said anything about level names/numbers, do you want them added to the dehacked text? (i.e. Level 1: Outpost - Primeval instead of just Outpost - Primeval)

MAP31, dobu gabu maru: Seems like you can't get 100% items on MAP31, and that this is the only map in NOVA where this is the case. Intentional? Worth fixing?

MAP21, joe-ilya: It's a bit weird IMHO that one of the windows in the starting area can be shot through, but not the other. Did you want a texture on the one that blocks bullets?
Also, should the soulsphere be marked secret? It seems like it was meant to be.

MAP22, Getsu Fune: did you want a fix for 100% kills in non-ZDoom ports?

MAP24, Stygian: Should the BFG be marked secret?

MAP30: The pain elementals are initially harmless in complevel 2 because of too many lost souls. Most affected area is Cannonball's. Replace with lost soul groups or cacos?

Last edited by plums on 08-01-14 at 05:36

Old Post 08-01-14 05:26 #
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dobu gabu maru
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plums said:
MAP31, dobu gabu maru: Seems like you can't get 100% items on MAP31, and that this is the only map in NOVA where this is the case. Intentional? Worth fixing?

Personally not getting 100% items has never bothered me so it's not exactly something I care about. If it really perturbs you feel free to change whatever is causing the hang-up, but otherwise it's fine as is.

Also regarding the PEs on MAP30, I'm not sure anyone wants to go back through their sections and replace certain PEs with Lost Souls or cacos... I say if there are people that still play with the Lost Soul limit on then let them have this advantage, as the map is hard enough even without 'em.

Old Post 08-01-14 08:02 #
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joe-ilya
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plums said:

MAP21, joe-ilya: It's a bit weird IMHO that one of the windows in the starting area can be shot through, but not the other. Did you want a texture on the one that blocks bullets?
Also, should the soulsphere be marked secret? It seems like it was meant to be.


Of course, actually good idea to add a middle texture to the solid window and yes for the soulsphere secret mark too.

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Old Post 08-01-14 08:23 #
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plums
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dobu gabu maru said:

Personally not getting 100% items has never bothered me so it's not exactly something I care about. If it really perturbs you feel free to change whatever is causing the hang-up, but otherwise it's fine as is.



There's a single health bonus in a teleport near the windy bar corridor at the start, I think it only lowers for MP but even then you can't get it. Maybe just a visual clue? I don't actually care either way, if you're fine with how it is then I'll leave it.
edit for post below: will change to a candle then.

I'll leave the PEs in MAP30, and change those things in joe-ilya's map.

Last edited by plums on 08-01-14 at 08:45

Old Post 08-01-14 08:39 #
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dobu gabu maru
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plums said:
There's a single health bonus in a teleport near the windy bar corridor at the start, I think it only lowers for MP but even then you can't get it. Maybe just a visual clue?


Oh yeah, I think that's supposed to be a candle, not a health bonus. Dumb mistake on my part

Old Post 08-01-14 08:40 #
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Jaws In Space
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Hello, I've gone through map 25 of the wad & have redone the deathmatch placement of things to make it more fun to play, but I am still trying to figure out what to do with map 30. I'm about to be doing a lot of traveling for the next 2 weeks so I won't be able to add the updates until at least August 11th, so please wait until then before you upload a fixed version to ID Games.

Old Post 08-01-14 10:50 #
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plums
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That works well, I have no corrections for 25 but a few for 30. I'm sure it'll be ready for the time you get back. Good luck with your move.

Old Post 08-01-14 10:52 #
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kildeth
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Doesn't phase me whether level numbers are in the dehacked text or not, but if they are, shouldn't they be in MAP01, MAP02 format rather than Level 1, Level 2?

What would the MAP22 fix involve? I like the idea of having every level maxable so fixing this would probably be a good idea.

Old Post 08-01-14 11:18 #
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plums
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kildeth said:
Doesn't phase me whether level numbers are in the dehacked text or not, but if they are, shouldn't they be in MAP01, MAP02 format rather than Level 1, Level 2?

doom2.wad uses "Level X" for the automap. Whatever you want though.

Personally I don't care much either way - I don't have much investment in this, I'm just trying to make sure things are brought to the NOVA team's attention. Unlike in NOVA 2 where I'll be pushing for all sorts of standards and conventions ;)


What would the MAP22 fix involve? I like the idea of having every level maxable so fixing this would probably be a good idea.


Probably a multi-sector crusher to kill the Barons quickly just before the player exits is the easiest thing. Maybe extend the exit hallway a bit once the player is in a safe spot.

Old Post 08-01-14 11:39 #
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kildeth
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Maybe leave out the map numbers in the automap. Some people might get annoyed but I think I like things better with just the map name and author and if they want to know the precise map number they can just keep count as they go along (or look it up).

I really think MAP22 should be fixed just to make everything maxable, unless Getsu Fune has a different view on the issue.

Old Post 08-01-14 13:08 #
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plums
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kildeth said:
Maybe leave out the map numbers in the automap.

So it shall be.


I really think MAP22 should be fixed just to make everything maxable, unless Getsu Fune has a different view on the issue.

For reference, the problem is that the end has a walkway that, if you fall off, teleports you to a small enclave with 4 barons that kill you while you're on a sector type 11 (damage to end level, like the end of doom.wad E1M8). If you traverse the walkway you exit the level normally, but the barons go unkilled.

Here are as many ideas to solve that problem as I can think of before my sandwich is ready:
* Exit triggers crushers that kill barons, player has to wait another brief moment (< 2 seconds) before they die.
* Exit releases barons into teleports so the player can fight them normally.
* Exit lets player telefrag barons one at a time. Close off barons with monster block lines so they can't escape. Make floor of baron sectors non-damaging.
* Remove barons, have a player that falls off a ledge telefrag a barrel instead.
* Remove barons and teleport, have floor around walkway damage type 11 instead. (Probably bad, most players will just reload since they will think they're in a normal damage sector.)
* Replace barons with lost souls, since they don't count in the monster tally.

ding! I'm not going to work on this map for a few days yet at least, so no hurry in coming to a decision.

Old Post 08-01-14 13:42 #
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Getsu Fune
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go ahead and fix it.

Old Post 08-01-14 14:00 #
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kildeth
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Sorry I haven't been on in awhile, I'm a bit ill.

Any of the following ideas sound like they'd work fine, if you haven't worked things out already.



* Exit releases barons into teleports so the player can fight them normally.
* Remove barons, have a player that falls off a ledge telefrag a barrel instead.
* Replace barons with lost souls, since they don't count in the monster tally.

Old Post 08-10-14 09:58 #
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joe-ilya
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MAP26 is not compatable in multiplayer, in order to make it playable like that, the wooden thing that locks must be openable from behind.

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Old Post 08-10-14 12:18 #
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plums
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Thanks joe-ilya, I'll add that in.

kildeth: haven't done much on fixing things still, also feeling not so hot. Hopefully going to get finished in the next day or two. I will probably go with the exploding barrel for MAP22.

Old Post 08-10-14 12:34 #
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kildeth
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There's no rush. I just thought you might be waiting for a reply, that's all. =)

Old Post 08-10-14 14:19 #
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Getsu Fune
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kildeth said:
* Remove barons, have a player that falls off a ledge telefrag a barrel instead.


Yip.

Old Post 08-10-14 14:24 #
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Caleb13
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As you may know, first 17 maps of Nova have been selected for Zdaemon Thursday Night Survival organized game session:

http://forums.zdaemon.org/viewtopic.php?t=16070

The other 15 maps will be probably played 2 weeks later. So if you wish to see how your maps will fare when played by 20+ players at once, come join us.

---------------------

In the meantime, here is some minor stuff I noticed during my second playthrough:

-Map07: secret sector 160 is too narrow and therefore can't be "found" very reliably. I suggest you make the inner part of sector 159 secret instead.

-Map10: 2 chaingunners (things 8 and 9) are stuck.

-Map15: not a bug, but it would be nice if you moved sector 56 farther away from the playable areas. The players might think linedef 2214 opens some secret.

Old Post 08-13-14 17:44 #
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plums
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Thanks Caleb. I got the MAP10 chaingunners already but that's a good idea for the other two.

If you haven't seen it, version 1.1 beta 3 is available, which has one or two fixes for Deathmatch. I think a player can still get stuck in the exit area of MAP10 though, which will be fixed in the next version.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/u...p0/NOVA11b3.zip
edit: just saw your link, you do have it :)
Maybe I can try to fix MAP10 today.

Old Post 08-13-14 18:33 #
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Caleb13
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Okay, we encountered one MP-related bug during the TNS session: we couldn't re-open bars (sector 799) in Map31. Add a switch so other players can open them again. Also, I think I saw similar bars at least at one more location, though they didn't block our progress.

If we encounter other bugs, I will let you know when we play the rest of the maps in 2 weeks or so.

Edit: I just remembered acid pit around blue key in Map15. Firstly, the lift (sector 188) is not damaging when it is still down. But what is worse, the pit is inescapable until the lift is raised. I suggest you add normal lift(s) or teleporter(s) around the pit.

Last edited by Caleb13 on 08-15-14 at 09:33

Old Post 08-14-14 23:44 #
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