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Mattfrie1
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unknownna said:
Speaking of which, according to the wiki, the ZombieMan dealt more damage in the PSX version.

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Zombieman#PlayStation_Doom




Not sure if this is an already known fact, but I also believe that all former humans (at least zombiemen) have decreased hit points as well. I've seen both an imp's melee and fireball as well as a lost soul's "headbutt" attack easily gib a former human in PSX Doom.

Old Post 07-10-12 15:39 #
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nirv
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Thanks for your hard work on the total conversion. I played PSX Doom so often in the late 90s that a friend and I developed our own way to play the game over the network using one disc, and actually, in our ignorance, we were so close to splicing up the network cable to try to get 4 players going at the same time. I wonder if the PS1 maps even HAD 4 player starting positions.

Anyway, I made a YouTube video showing 4 bugs I've found so far. A friend and I will continue to play the entire game through to see if we can find others or improve it.

Last edited by nirv on 07-10-12 at 17:08

Old Post 07-10-12 17:02 #
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francis247uk
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Great video nirv, I also have fond memories of playing Final Doom multiplayer with 2 old TV's and two Playstations with a system link cable.

You mention that your playing this TC co-op multiplayer for the final bug? (3:18 onwards)

I don't have much experience when it comes to PC Doom (inc ZDoom/GZdoom) so for the less experienced board members could you explain how you set up multiplayer in this TC, cannot see it from the main menu and wasn't even aware this was possible?

Would love to be able to play this multiplayer (co-op or deathmatch) over my wi-fi network at home.

Thanks

Last edited by francis247uk on 07-10-12 at 23:51

Old Post 07-10-12 23:41 #
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Sodaholic
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Why is the scale 0.92 on many of the actors?

Old Post 07-11-12 00:18 #
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nirv
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francis247uk said:
Great video nirv, I also have fond memories of playing Final Doom multiplayer with 2 old TV's and two Playstations with a system link cable.

You mention that your playing this TC co-op multiplayer for the final bug? (3:18 onwards)

I don't have much experience when it comes to PC Doom (inc ZDoom/GZdoom) so for the less experienced board members could you explain how you set up multiplayer in this TC, cannot see it from the main menu and wasn't even aware this was possible?

Would love to be able to play this multiplayer (co-op or deathmatch) over my wi-fi network at home.

Thanks



Sure. For multiplayer:

Open PSXDOOM.BAT with an editor
Have the last line look like this: START GZDOOM.EXE +EXEC PSXDOOM.CFG -CONFIG PSXDOOM.INI -host 2 -warp 29 -extratic

The joining player would only need to add the following
START GZDOOM.EXE +EXEC PSXDOOM.CFG -CONFIG PSXDOOM.INI -join [IPADDRESS]

Port 5029 UDP needs to be forwarded on your router.

Shockingly, the netcode is better than Diablo 3's.

Last edited by nirv on 07-11-12 at 03:06

Old Post 07-11-12 02:58 #
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unknownna
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unknownna said:
Does this also mean that demons used to enter their attack states from longer distances before?

I checked it in PrBoom+ and it seems that they didn't, so I will not increase the MeleeRange actor property value. A_CustomBulletAttack will use the value of 64 though.


unknownna said:
And did the old demon attacks spawn any bullet puffs (fist/chainsaw) when they missed and hit a wall?

I checked it in PrBoom+ and it seems that they spawned the same puff as the fist.


Mattfrie1 said:
Not sure if this is an already known fact, but I also believe that all former humans (at least zombiemen) have decreased hit points as well. I've seen both an imp's melee and fireball as well as a lost soul's "headbutt" attack easily gib a former human in PSX Doom.

I changed the PSXZombieMan health value to 15. At least it's a start.


nirv said:
I wonder if the PS1 maps even HAD 4 player starting positions.

I only see 2 player starts in the map editor.


nirv said:
Anyway, I made a YouTube video showing 4 bugs I've found so far. A friend and I will continue to play the entire game through to see if we can find others or improve it.

Thank you very much for this. I can see in your video that the megasphere spawn state timing is very slow in the PSX version.


Sodaholic said:
Why is the scale 0.92 on many of the actors?

It simply looked a lot better in conjunction with "gl_spriteclip 2".

PSXDOOM_UPDATE_05.pk3 (also includes the fixes in PSXDOOM_UPDATE_04.PK3)

  • PSXZombieMan health value changed to 15.
  • Fixed: Demons weren't capable of infighting with one another. Kudos to Gez for helping out with the fix.
  • Fixed: Demons didn't spawn a different bullet puff when their attacks hit a wall.
  • Fixed: PSXChaingunGuy and PSXSpiderMastermind attacks used the wrong damage formula.
  • Fixed: MAP06 had a missing PSXNightmareSpectre. (This might need some more fixing. Perhaps there's supposed to be a regular demon on lower skill levels.)
  • Fixed: MAP28 had a misplaced StealthChaingunGuy. (This might need some more fixing since there's a Cacodemon there on UV. Perhaps the Cacodemon is supposed to appear on lower skill levels.)
  • Fixed: MAP36 had missing translucency on some linedefs.
  • Fixed: MAP44 had missing translucency on a linedef.
  • Fixed: MAP45 incorrectly lowered a ceiling.
  • Fixed: The PSXSuperShotgun sprites used the Vanilla Doom offsets. Furthermore, I altered one of the sprites a little.
  • Fixed: The spawn state timings of some actors were too fast:
  • GLMegasphere (This one is really slow in the PSX version.)
  • GLBloodyTwitch (GLNonsolidTwitch now inherits from GLBloodyTwitch.)
  • GLLiveStick (Didn't really check this one.)
  • GLHeartColumn

I didn't fix the missing player 2 start problems.

Old Post 07-11-12 03:54 #
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Sodaholic
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Shouldn't the pistol zombie's health be 16 instead of 15? This way, it still takes at least 2 shots to kill with a pistol.

Old Post 07-11-12 11:30 #
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ScottGray
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These replace the end maps, unzip them into the map folder in the main pk3, and let us know if it fixes the missing P2 start problem.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zpfcvtq0qn40g4m

If you want more than 2 player, I think the P3 and P4 start points would need to be added to the maps, or you could see if it works in SkullTag, I remember using the original TC in Skulltag for 4 player co-op a few years back.

Last edited by ScottGray on 07-11-12 at 12:48

Old Post 07-11-12 12:39 #
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nirv
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ScottGray said:
These replace the end maps, unzip them into the map folder in the main pk3, and let us know if it fixes the missing P2 start problem.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zpfcvtq0qn40g4m

If you want more than 2 player, the start points would need to be added to the maps, or you could see if it works in SkullTag.



I just tested it and yup, works perfectly. Finished map 30, it went to the ending screen ("You painfully get up and return to the fray") and begins Entryway smoothly.

Regarding more than 2 player spawn points:

I think if you're trying to remain true to PSX Doom (and I think you are considering the Sony startup/Williams screens), you shouldn't allow for more than 2 because that's all the game supported.

Thank you for the fixes.

Old Post 07-11-12 12:56 #
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unknownna
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ScottGray said:
These replace the end maps, unzip them into the map folder in the main pk3, and let us know if it fixes the missing P2 start problem.

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zpfcvtq0qn40g4m


Well done, but it seems that the scripts need to be adapted for 2 players.

http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3835/12230425.png


nirv said:
Regarding more than 2 player spawn points:

I think if you're trying to remain true to PSX Doom (and I think you are considering the Sony startup/Williams screens), you shouldn't allow for more than 2 because that's all the game supported.


I agree.


Sodaholic said:
Shouldn't the pistol zombie's health be 16 instead of 15? This way, it still takes at least 2 shots to kill with a pistol.

Good question. Does anybody remember whether one could possibly kill a zombieman with 1 pistol shot?

Old Post 07-11-12 14:29 #
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Mattfrie1
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unknownna said:
Does anybody remember whether one could possibly kill a zombieman with 1 pistol shot?


I don't think you could.

I didn't say it earlier, but I think the only way a Zombieman could be gibbed by an imp's attack is if you shot at it before (like 1 shot from the pistol) and then have the imp attack it. A lost soul attack could gib a zombieman with no extra help though if I can remember correctly. Hopefully this can help to make the zombieman's hit points as accurate as possible.

I'm actually going to fire up some PSX Doom now to check this out, I'll try to report back soon.

Old Post 07-11-12 16:47 #
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francis247uk
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Mattfrie1, just checked on the PSX version and was definitely not able to kill a zombieman with one bullet.

On a seperate note I'm surprised that no one has mentioned multiplayer on here before, rather then being a semi hidden feature would it be possible to incorporate a more simple way of selecting multiplayer, similar to the PSX menu screens?

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/3773/menuqf.png

If this isn't possible due to the constraints of GZDoom please disregard, thanks.

Old Post 07-11-12 22:02 #
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BaronOfStuff
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nirv said:

Regarding more than 2 player spawn points:

I think if you're trying to remain true to PSX Doom (and I think you are considering the Sony startup/Williams screens), you shouldn't allow for more than 2 because that's all the game supported.



Disagree. As someone who frequently ends up messing around with a 4P LAN, it's good to have the expanded MP support. I'd say add up to 4P starts (or leave them if they're already in). They don't/won't/can't affect the SP game, and nobody/nothing is forcing anyone to have to use all four playerstarts if they want to play some co-op.

Old Post 07-11-12 22:41 #
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Gez
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The engine actually supports eight player starts, so if you add more player starts, you can go whole hog about it.

A multiplayer function in the menu is probably not possible given how the netcode works. Skulltag could support that; but Skulltag doesn't have custom menu.

Old Post 07-11-12 22:46 #
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Mattfrie1
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So after screwing around in a couple of levels on PSX Doom earlier, I was able to confirm the stuff I mentioned earlier.

I also noticed something I didn't mention earlier, which is how frequently zombiemen get gibbed by bullets of other zombiemen. I've only seen this happen on PSX Doom based engines as well.

Old Post 07-11-12 23:51 #
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Gez
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If anything, instead of changing the zombieman's health, you could change its gibhealth. I see nothing hinting that their health was reduced from its original value of 20.

Old Post 07-12-12 00:21 #
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ScottGray
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unknownna, nirv, try these end maps out instead.
http://www.mediafire.com/?b9vxpdbrsc125ye

Old Post 07-12-12 00:49 #
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unknownna
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Mattfrie1 said:
I don't think you could.

francis247uk said:
Mattfrie1, just checked on the PSX version and was definitely not able to kill a zombieman with one bullet.

Mattfrie1 said:
So after screwing around in a couple of levels on PSX Doom earlier, I was able to confirm the stuff I mentioned earlier.

I also noticed something I didn't mention earlier, which is how frequently zombiemen get gibbed by bullets of other zombiemen. I've only seen this happen on PSX Doom based engines as well.


I see. Thanks for checking it out. Did the player-pistol bullets also gib the zombiemen? Did the shotgun guy and/or the chaingun guy attacks also gib the zombiemen? It seems that the zombieman attacks were more powerful than the player-pistol attacks in the PSX version.


Gez said:
If anything, instead of changing the zombieman's health, you could change its gibhealth.

That sounds like a good idea. We'll need a good GibHealth value though.


ScottGray said:
unknownna, nirv, try these end maps out instead.

I did a quick test and it still seems to break.

Old Post 07-12-12 01:12 #
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Mattfrie1
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unknownna said:
Did the player-pistol bullets also gib the zombiemen? Did the shotgun guy and/or the chaingun guy attacks also gib the zombiemen?


No and no. I tried on several occasions to gib a zombieman with the player-pistol, but I've never seen it happen. The most pistol shots I've seen a zombieman take from the player-pistol on the PSX version is 4 with the regular death animation.

I've also never seen shotgun/chaingun guy gib zombies, but it could be possible if their hitscan bullets are the same as the zombieman's.

On a separate note, I have seen the chainsaw gib zombiemen in both the PSX and 32X versions of Doom. Not sure if this was originally possible in the PC version, but it could have been something added on when id worked on the engine for the Jaguar port (which pretty much all console ports used).

At some point soon I'm going to edit the first post and try and get some official credits written. Feel free to PM me as to what you have actually done so I don't make any mistakes. :)

Last edited by Mattfrie1 on 07-12-12 at 01:59

Old Post 07-12-12 01:48 #
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BaronOfStuff
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Mattfrie1 said:

On a separate note, I have seen the chainsaw gib zombiemen in both the PSX and 32X versions of Doom.



Can't say I've seen it on the 32X port, but the basic 'unberserked' Fist is also capable of such things on the PSX. Very rare, but it does happen.

Old Post 07-12-12 07:20 #
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Use3D
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Plasma gun gibs and chainsaw gibs happen more frequently on Saturn version too. One thing I found is if you charge (hold run) right into a zombieman with the chiansaw firing you seem to gib them more often.

Old Post 07-12-12 23:01 #
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Mattfrie1
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I just updated the first post to include credits. If you pointed out a bug in the TC somewhere in the thread, I listed you as a tester. I think I included everyone who's work is currently in the most recent beta along with what you did. Message me if you have any concerns about the credits (i.e. not credited, given a job title of something you didn't do,etc.)

Last edited by Mattfrie1 on 07-13-12 at 00:45

Old Post 07-13-12 00:40 #
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unknownna
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PSXDOOM_UPDATE_06.PK3 (also includes the fixes in PSXDOOM_UPDATE_05.PK3)

Based on your information, I did the following:

  • PSXZombieMan Health value set to 20.
  • PSXZombieMan GibHealth value set to 14. The pistol/shotgun/SSG will not gib the zombiemen under any circumstances.
  • PSXZombieMan now uses A_CustomBulletAttack with a new damage formula, i.e., random(1, 7)*3. The maximum damage is now 21.

The fist/chainsaw will now rarely gib the zombiemen. Gibs caused by the plasma rifle are common. Zombiemen will rarely gib other zombiemen. Now, this isn't perfect and I don't think they gib nearly as often as they should, but it seems to work better now. Imps/demons/lost souls still don't gib them properly. I wonder whether or not the chainsaw, imp and lost soul attacks were stronger in the PSX version as well.

Does anybody know the damage formula of the zombieman attacks in Doom 64?

http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Zombieman#Doom_64


DoomWiki:
In Doom 64, they use a visual appearance that is similar to the vanilla Doom looks, but instead their rifles look more like shotguns and their suits are colored blue-grey. They first appear in MAP01: Staging Area. Also, like in PlayStation Doom, their gunshots deal somewhat more damage than in previous versions (up to about 21 damage).


unknownna said:
  • Fixed: The PSXSuperShotgun sprites used the Vanilla Doom offsets. Furthermore, I altered one of the sprites a little.


Just to clear things up, the final doom SSG sprites (psxshotgun.wad) didn't use the proper offsets.

Old Post 07-13-12 03:29 #
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unknownna
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unknownna said:
Does anybody know the damage formula of the zombieman attacks in Doom 64?.

I tested Doom64Ex and noticed that their pellets can deal up to 24 damage (100 to 76), so the maximum damage is not 21. The lowest damage was 3, so it should be random(1, 8)*3.


Doom64Ex damage:
ZombieMan
Min: 3 (100 to 97)
Max: 24 (100 to 76)

Demon
Min: 4 (100 to 96)
Max: 32 (100 to 68)

Imp
Min: 3 (100 to 97)
Max: 24 (100 to 76)

LostSoul
Min: 3 (100 to 97)
Max: 24 (100 to 76)

BaronOfHell/HellKnight Melee
Min: 11 (100 to 89)
Max: 32 (100 to 68)

BaronOfHell/HellKnight Projectile
Min: 8 (100 to 92)
Max: 64 (100 to 36)

Cacodemon Melee
Min: 8 (100 to 92)
Max: 64 (100 to 36)

Cacodemon Projectile
Min: 5 (100 to 95)
Max: 40 (100 to 60)

Mancubus
Min: 8 (100 to 92)
Max: 64 (100 to 36)

Arachnotron Single Plasma Projectile
Min: 3 (100 to 97)
Max: 15 or 24 (100 to 85/76)


Can somebody confirm that the Demon and BaronOfHell/HellKnight melee attacks were weaker in the PSX version?

Last edited by unknownna on 07-13-12 at 19:25

Old Post 07-13-12 14:10 #
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ScottGray
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I think iv got a fix for the 2 player health and inventory reset problem.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?yo7rm4ny1gf05o7
Drop contents into the main pk3 file, this ones only for main tc not final doom

The easiest way to enforcing a "pistol start" is to add "resethealth" and "resetinventory" to the first map in each episode in the Zmapinfo file.
But I starting with the fists instead of the Pistol.

So this method quickly takes you through a map that only resets your health and inventory and selects the pistol with ASC, then exits on to the first map of the next episode. It seems a bit over the top, but I can't think of another way of doing it.

Last edited by ScottGray on 07-15-12 at 02:19

Old Post 07-15-12 02:12 #
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unknownna
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ScottGray said:
So this method quickly takes you through a map that only resets your health and inventory and selects the pistol with ACS, then exits on to the first map of the next episode.

It works, but if the players have more than 100 health, they'll keep the health at the beginning of the new episodes. And the "LOADING..." icon is only displayed for one player.

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/9657/71915568.png

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4507/86836798.png

BTW: Did the cacodemon melee attacks play any sounds when they hit something in the PSX version?

Old Post 07-15-12 03:49 #
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ScottGray
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Ok this time.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?83bujfixwkyxwli

This time both player should see the Loading bar and be at 100% health. Only problem now is the teleport noise. I don't know how to disable it just for the text screens, anyone know how to do this?

Old Post 07-15-12 13:30 #
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BaronOfStuff
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unknownna said:

Can somebody confirm that the Demon and BaronOfHell/HellKnight melee attacks were weaker in the PSX version?



Not entirely sure about Demons, but it's possible. As for Barons/Knights though... if they were weaker, they certainly weren't as feeble as the above figures for D64. Going by experience, I'd say they were probably around the same strength as in the PC original.


unknownna said:

BTW: Did the cacodemon melee attacks play any sounds when they hit something in the PSX version?



Nope. Completely silent.

Old Post 07-15-12 14:09 #
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unknownna
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ScottGray said:
Ok this time.
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?83bujfixwkyxwli

This time both player should see the Loading bar and be at 100% health.


It seems to work now, but the players are still able to push/use the walls in the reset-maps.

I compared the source code between the Jaguar and PC and noticed a few differences in terms of damage. Is it basically random(1, 8)*x on almost all of the stuff, or is it random(1, 7)*x? I didn't find the projectile damage formulas.


MONSTERS:

A_PosAttack
Jaguar: ((P_Random()&7)+1)*3
PC: ((P_Random()%5)+1)*3

A_SPosAttack
Jaguar: ((P_Random()&7)+1)*3
PC: ((P_Random()%5)+1)*3

A_TroopAttack (melee)
Jaguar: ((P_Random()&7)+1)*3
PC: (P_Random()%8+1)*3

A_SargAttack
Jaguar: ((P_Random()&7)+1)*4
PC: ((P_Random()%10)+1)*4

A_HeadAttack (melee)
Jaguar: ((P_Random()&7)+1)*8
PC: (P_Random()%6+1)*10

A_BruisAttack (melee)
Jaguar: ((P_Random()&7)+1)*11
PC: (P_Random()%8+1)*10

Skullthing (LostSoul)
Jaguar: ((P_Random()&7)+1)*mo->info->damage
((P_Random()&7)+1)*thing->info->damage


WEAPONS:

A_Punch
Jaguar: ((P_Random ()&7)+1)*3
PC: (P_Random ()%10+1)<<1

A_Saw
Jaguar: ((P_Random ()&7)+1)*3
PC: 2*(P_Random ()%10+1)

P_GunShot (Pistol, Chaingun, Shotgun)
Jaguar: ((P_Random ()&3)+1)*4
PC: 5*(P_Random ()%3+1)

Last edited by unknownna on 07-16-12 at 01:32

Old Post 07-16-12 01:26 #
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Gez
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The binary & operator only gives 1 if both bits are 1. 7 is 111, so the only possible results from a random byte & 7 are in the range from 000 to 111, so 0 to 7 in decimal. Then you add 1, which makes it between 1 and 8. And finally you multiply by 3, 4 or whatever other value.

So, a comparison table:
code:
PC Jaguar Zombieman: 3x1d5 3x1d8 Shotgun Guy: 3x1d5 3x1d8 Imp scratch: 3x1d8 3x1d8 Demon bite: 4x1d10 4x1d8 Cacodemon bite: 10x1d6 8x1d8 Baron scratch: 10x1d8 11x1d8


The shift operator multiplies (<<) or divides (>>) by a power of two.
code:
PC Jaguar Melee: 2x1d10 3x1d8 Guns: 5x1d3 4x1d4


Using theoretical average (where each value of the virtual dice has an equal chance of coming up), the average result of a die is the sum of its possible results divided by the number of "sides".
1d3: 6/3 = 2
1d4: 10/4 = 2.5
1d5: 15/5 = 3
1d6: 21/6 = 3.5
1d8: 36/8 = 4.5
1d10: 55/10 = 5.5

In practice, each result does not have an equal chance of coming up but I don't feel like making full fledged analysis of the random number generators used.

So a gun pellet deals between 5 and 15 damage, with an average of 10, on PC; and between 4 and 16, with an average of 10, on Jaguar. Punch and chainsaw deal between 2 and 20, with an average of 11, on the PC; and on the Jaguar it's between 3 and 24 with an average of 13.5.

Monster attacks, by the same token:

Zombieman: PC: 3--15 (avg 9); Jag: 3--24 (avg 13.5)
Shotgun Guy: PC: 3--15 (avg 9); Jag: 3--24 (avg 13.5)
Imp scratch: Both: 3--24 (avg 13.5)
Demon bite: PC: 4--40 (avg 22); Jag: 4--32 (avg 18)
Cacodemon bite: PC: 10--60 (avg 35); Jag: 8--64 (avg 36)
Baron scratch: 10--80 (avg 45); Jag: 11--88 (avg 49.5)

Now for missile damage formula... It's in the collision code.

PC:
code:
// damage / explode damage = ((P_Random()%8)+1)*tmthing->info->damage; P_DamageMobj (thing, tmthing, tmthing->target, damage);


Jaguar:
code:
damage = ((P_Random()&7)+1)*thing->info->damage; P_DamageMobj (latchedmovething, thing, thing->target, damage);


That is pretty much the same, though. Modulating by a power of two is the same as &-masking by that power of two minus 1. So all that remains to compare is the damage value for the various projectiles.

Lost Soul: both 3
Imp shot: both 3
Caco shot: both 5
Baron shot: both 8
Rocket: both 20
Plasma: both 5
BFG main shot: both 100

The released Jaguar source code doesn't feature the Doom II actors.

Last edited by Gez on 07-16-12 at 11:51

Old Post 07-16-12 11:31 #
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