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Mattfrie1
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I made this proposal in a thread that recently got PH'ed (I guess the op posted warez), but would anyone be interested in making a TC that recreated Playstation Final Doom for the PC?

For those that might not know, Final Doom on the Playstation stores it's maps in some kind of a ROM format, different from the original PSX Doom that stored it's maps in the traditional WAD format.

Because of this, Kaiser's PSXMAKE tool (which fueled the creation of the PSX Doom TC) doesn't effectively work on Final Doom levels, as they are compressed in a different way. I PM'ed Kaiser recently on the matter, and he told me that he no longer had the resources to edit the PSXMAKE program to recognize PSX Final Doom levels.

So, it seems to me that the only way to actually get these levels on the PC would be to edit the PC versions of the maps so they resemble their PSX counterparts. I started to edit Attack.wad from the Master Levels for Doom II, and it definitely seems possible that something of this nature can be done, even if it seems rather tedious. However, it would be better if multiple mappers worked on converting the levels, as it can be a long process for one person to try and notice every little detail that was changed for the PSX version.

As for myself, I'd be more than willing to assist in the project in any way possible. I am still sort of a n00b on using Doombuilder, but I'm sure I could at least edit 1 or 2 levels.

So, would anybody be interested in the idea?

EDIT: Here's a link to the post containing the dl links of the current beta.

Last edited by Mattfrie1 on 05-20-12 at 15:33

11-28-11 00:23 #

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buttspit
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Yeah, slightly off-topic, but I'm kinda confused about the helled thread. I didn't check the link of the other guy, really, but it seems like he was linking to the PSX Doom TC (which you are also linking to, and which is also available at the ZDoom Forums). But he called it the PSX Doom PWAD.

Also, isn't releasing a WAD with edited Master Levels (from the PWADS, I mean) illegal?

11-28-11 01:47 #

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Mattfrie1
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buttspit said:
Also, isn't releasing a WAD with edited Master Levels (from the PWADS, I mean) illegal?

I'm not sure if it is. If it is, then I obviously wouldn't release it or continue work on it. I know the /idgames archive wouldn't allow it because it features modded ID levels. But when you look at the PSX Doom TC (which is hosted on Mediafire I believe) and the Doom 64 TC (Which actually released the Doom 64 levels on PC without modification), it is sort of the same concept of having edited official releases up for download.

However, if the proposal is breaking any forum rules (or any laws for that matter), a mod can close this thread, as I have no intentions of any wrongdoings by making this suggestion.

Also, I think the op of the helled thread linked to a downloadable ISO of PSX Doom, which is obviously warez. I didn't look, but that's my guess.

11-28-11 20:23 #

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Sodaholic
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If people generally don't have a problem with the PSX Doom TC, then I see no reason why anyone would object to a Final Doom PSX TC.

11-29-11 00:00 #

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PRIMEVAL
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Posts: 1400
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Wouldn't the same go for any D64 TC as well?

11-29-11 00:21 #

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scalliano
This door is opened elsewhere...

Posts: 684
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Given the amount of ripped stuff in the Doom community, I'd say go for it. It's just that you wouldn't be able to submit it to /idgames, much like the original TC. Just host it on Mediafire or somewhere like that. I doubt that you'll get many people banging on your door.

I was working on a Jaguar Doom TC a while ago and no one said anything (though I say go for Dragonsbrethren's version 'cos it's better than mine).

A good idea would be to make it as an addon for fender's PSX TC. That means most of the assets, like the Nightmare Spectre and hanging chain are already in place.

Last edited by scalliano on 11-29-11 at 00:48

11-29-11 00:43 #

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Dragonsbrethren
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Personally I think time would better be invested in figuring out the map format PSX Final Doom actually uses and writing a converter. No matter how hard you try you'll never get things like the lighting perfect. More to you if you still want to attempt it, though.

I have an updated version of fenderc's PSX TC that I can send over to you to use as a base, if you want it. Updated to work with new versions of GZDoom, takes advantage of newer features; it could be released as-is, I was just unhappy with my work on the Nightmare Spectre (if GZDoom would just get a color inversion translation and subtractive blending this would be so easy...).

11-29-11 20:37 #

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Kaiser
Doom64 Guru

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PRIMEVAL said:
Wouldn't the same go for any D64 TC as well?

The TC's levels were made from scratch, so they're completely legit.

11-29-11 22:55 #

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C30N9
Senior Member

Posts: 1015
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I played before a wad called Console Doom by Kaiser. In it are some map from PSX and D64, including changes. I might help in level design by watching videos playing through PSX. BTW, are you only aiming for Final Doom?

11-30-11 13:27 #

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Avoozl
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I would love to help with this but sadly I only just learnt some of the basics in map making when I tried to make maps for Doom 64 Ex a few weeks ago.

11-30-11 14:00 #

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MajorRawne
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I'd like to help, but am still fairly noobish at mapping and am committed to 6 maps on 2 different projects :(

PSX Dooms FTW

11-30-11 17:41 #

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Mattfrie1
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Dragonsbrethren said:
I have an updated version of fenderc's PSX TC that I can send over to you to use as a base, if you want it.

Feel free to PM me a link to DL it.

I would love to see if I could find a way to convert the levels directly to PC, as just altering the PC levels still doesn't seem to be the best option. I would GREATLY appreciate it if someone could look into this option, as I have tried messing around with PSXMAKE but to no avail. If all else fails, then altering the PC levels will be the only way I guess.

C30N9 said:
BTW, are you only aiming for Final Doom?

Yup, considering both PSX Doom and Doom 64 are already ported successfully to the PC.

Doomsfall said:
I would love to help with this but sadly I only just learnt some of the basics in map making when I tried to make maps for Doom 64 Ex a few weeks ago.

MajorRawne said:
I'd like to help, but am still fairly noobish at mapping and am committed to 6 maps on 2 different projects :(

If you already haven't, check out the tutorial videos on the official Doombuilder website. They pretty much give you all the information that would be needed to work on this project, as it isn't as high maintenance as making a new map from scratch.

11-30-11 18:15 #

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D_GARG
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project sounds intresting :)
to which engine would this wad be adapted to?

12-01-11 10:37 #

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Omnipotus
Warming Up

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A couple of years ago after studying the wad decompression in the Jaguar Doom source code, I experimented and made a tool to convert Jaguar Doom and PSX Doom files (like wads, textures, and flats), which I abandoned for while to work on something else.

Regarding the PSX Final Doom wad (actually *.ROM, unlike PSX Doom having the standard *.WAD), the only difference with it is that it stores all the SIDEDEF textures as 16-bit/shorts (to the index of the texture in the PSXDOOM.WAD, starting from the T_START lump) and SECTORS store the identity of flats the same way (only starting from the F_START lump).

The source code to the tool still needs some cleaning, but for now I included the PSX Final Doom wad converter.
If you want to convert PSX Final Doom *.ROM files back into a readable PC WAD format, these are the basic steps to it after you download the zip file:

1. Extract "fpsxmapconv.exe" and open "Command Prompt".
2. Enter in "fpsxmapconv.exe".
3. Enter the arg "-loadwad", followed by the *.ROM file.
4. Enter the arg "-convertfpsxmap", followed by the output *.WAD file.
5. You can use the optional arg "-dumprgb" to extract a *.TXT file containing a list of rgb sector data from the wad.

I also included a more easily readable "LIGHTS" TXT file you can read in Notepad (or similar), containing a list of 256 RGB values that you can match with the sector rgb indexes.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ibjefwkgze3ltq9

12-02-11 01:48 #

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buttspit
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This will certainly be helpful :)

12-02-11 02:41 #

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Dragonsbrethren
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Awesome, Omnipotus. Now I wish I had looked into the format; I just assumed it was something more complicated than that since everyone who mentioned it made it sound like it was completely unlike a WAD file. I figured I didn't really have the time or patience to figure something out like that anymore.

12-02-11 17:24 #

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Mattfrie1
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Omnipotus said:
PSX Final Doom map converter

Thank you so much for this. If a final project of this ever does get released, I'll make sure that I'll include your name somewhere in the credits. :)

All right, now with that out of the way, I definitely intend on releasing a TC. I still will need assistance of some sort possibly considering that I am still rather new to working with Doom Builder and XWE, so it will probably take a little bit to get done. I'll keep everyone updated on my status of the project.

EDIT: As usual, my stupid computer refuses to load the program from the command prompt. It just comes up with the message that the program has stopped working and can't find a solution to the problem. Can someone else download the .exe to see if they have the same problem? I'm running on a 32-bit Windows Vista BTW.

Last edited by Mattfrie1 on 12-02-11 at 21:06

12-02-11 20:46 #

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Sodaholic
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I can help you out with this. I was thinking of taking the existing PSX Doom TC and changing it's levels to the PSX Final Doom ones.

I'll try that converter later.

12-02-11 22:25 #

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Omnipotus
Warming Up

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Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with Windows Vista, but I've heard about its incompatibilities. I compiled the tool with Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0 on Windows XP (32-bit). Perhaps I will work around making a version with a GUI interface.

12-02-11 23:01 #

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footman
gimme DWJ3!

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I've tried the converter and it seems to work fine. I'm on Windows XP, mind you.

12-02-11 23:52 #

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Mattfrie1
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Omnipotus said:
Unfortunately, I'm not too familiar with Windows Vista, but I've heard about its incompatibilities. I compiled the tool with Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0 on Windows XP (32-bit). Perhaps I will work around making a version with a GUI interface.

OK, so I just tried the program on Windows XP and the thing still didn't work, displaying the same "program has a problem and needs to close" message box. I also tried re-downloading the converter, and that didn't work either. Any ideas as to what I am doing wrong? Also, how long would it take you to make a version with GUI interface?

Also, if anyone wants to start work on making the TC, go ahead. It seems like I'm going to be stuck for a little bit...

I'm thinking the engine we should use is ZDoom/Skulltag, to answer D_GARG's question from earlier.

12-03-11 00:14 #

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Sodaholic
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Mattfrie1 said:
I'm thinking the engine we should use is ZDoom/Skulltag, to answer D_GARG's question from earlier.

I already have a version of the PSX TC for GZDoom ready to be modified into a PSX Final Doom TC. I'll start by converting MAP01.

12-03-11 03:19 #

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buttspit
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There are a couple of differences between Doom and Final Doom on PSX that might probably need to be accounted for, like the Super Shotgun appearance. But I must say, the progress for this is exciting. Please let us know if converting the maps is a success if you can.

12-03-11 04:35 #

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Mattfrie1
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Sodaholic said:
I'll start by converting MAP01.

Excellent. Just make sure you get the maps from the actual PSX Final Doom disc if you can, I'd like this to be as official as possible! Make sure you keep all of us updated on your progress.

buttspit said:
There are a couple of differences between Doom and Final Doom on PSX that might probably need to be accounted for, like the Super Shotgun appearance.

Kaiser actually extracted the sprites for the PSX Final Doom super shotgun as well as the starry night sky used in some levels in this resource pack if anyone needs them.

12-03-11 14:17 #

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Mad Butcher
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It worked for me in XP (MAP01.ROM was from my PSX disk).

http://i.imgur.com/PxOsC.png

The WAD is playable with ZDoom. It looks like all the monsters and other things are in the map; doors, lifts, and lighting seem to be working correctly. The only thing missing are textures and flats.

Last edited by Mad Butcher on 12-03-11 at 15:26

12-03-11 15:06 #

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Dragonsbrethren
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Sodaholic said:
I can help you out with this. I was thinking of taking the existing PSX Doom TC and changing it's levels to the PSX Final Doom ones.

I'll try that converter later.

I'd recommend against doing this. Change the Final Doom map names so they can be used as an add-on for the TC instead, or bundle the maps into the TC and release them both together. I'd imagine anyone who wants to play the PSX version is going to want both map sets anyway, so I don't see any reason to not put it out as one stand-alone release with all the maps.

I also don't see any sense in having two separate PSX TCs to maintain, when one could accomplish the same thing, with less resource duplication. The only problem I see is if there are a lot of conflicts between the normal PSX Doom stuff and Final Doom. I'm pretty sure they didn't make any changes to the textures, but I could be wrong. I know the UI got very minor changes.

As for the SSG, the PSX TC doesn't even use the PSX weapon sprites since they were just lower quality resizes of the sprites from the PC version. The only reason the SSG was touched up was because the resizing made it look terrible. So I say keep using the same PC sprites.

I'll PM you the latest copy of my revisions to the PSX TC too.

12-03-11 17:25 #

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Omnipotus
Warming Up

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Here's a GUI version that might be more compatible with you Vista users: http://www.mediafire.com/?k35y8z8zyk8xtcx

Simple steps to using the program:
1. Simply 'Open' the *.ROM file.
2. Then select 'Convert Wad' and enter the *.WAD file name for the output.

Last edited by Omnipotus on 12-03-11 at 18:28

12-03-11 17:43 #

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Sodaholic
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I've got maps 01-30 converted, but the converter refused to convert 31-32. I could only find 32 maps in the CD, is that all there is? I thought it was 40 for some reason.

Once I get 31-32 converted, I'll upload the current version of the mod. Who thinks this should be a community project to colorize the levels according to their RGB outputs from the converter? I suppose we could get 20 or so people assigned to one or two maps.

Lastly, anyone know of any good utilities to open PSXDOOM.WAD? It's certainly not in PC compatible format.

12-05-11 03:33 #

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buttspit
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Whoa! That's 2 more levels than can be normally accessed in the game! I suspect the last 2 levels you're trying to convert are scraps (ie, aren't complete or in working state).

Anyway, what do you mean PSXDOOM.WAD (like what is it)?

EDIT: Also, I'm guessing you assumed there were 40 levels because you read probably one of those blurbs that claim PSX Final Doom has (over) 40 levels. I was baffled at that, myself way back.

12-05-11 05:47 #

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