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ReX
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Deimos: Slight Return is a nine-map replacement for Episode 2 of The Ultimate DooM (DooM I). It resembles the original and is 100% vanilla-DooM compatible, but has more detail, has tougher gameplay, has some extra areas to explore, the logical progression in many maps has changed, and the access routes to many secrets have changed.

Screenshots

Text File

Download Zip File

Enjoy!

Old Post 11-30-11 03:53 #
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MegaDoomer
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Like this news! :) It could actually have more of an audience than Phobos Directive, even if a small sample really loved that. There's a lack of real E2 "remakes" as well. AFAIK the only real competitor is last year's Deimos Deja Vu. Of course there's also Wonderful Doom (which has all the episodes) but I never thought that was up to line really.

Old Post 11-30-11 05:11 #
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esselfortium
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It looks kind of garish.

Since I already know you don't want to hear about it from me, I'll just quote what Eriance said about your other recent release since you seemed more receptive when he said it:


Eriance said:

Artistically, this goes against all color theory and it just burns the eyes to look at from the colors alone.

Visually, I'm going to have to say the maps look rather displeasing. [...] The result is pockets of isolated detailed areas surrounded by otherwise empty areas with little of no detailing. This creates a very inconsistent feel. It seems like 2 different people worked on a map, while one person map the layout, the other was going to do the nitty gritty detailing but never finished.

Over all, there are a lot of detailing that seems to be placed just for the sake of detailing. Like pockets of detail that was placed in just to make the room look more full, but not actually give a consistent sense of location, theme, nor anything physically meaningful.

Since the texture misalignment has been mentioned, I won't recite that point as it would be beating a dead horse.

Old Post 11-30-11 05:19 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
may have been DoomHero85 at some point


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I really like these remakes. The gameplay is much better now, and even though they are similar to the originals, they are different enough to provide a new experience.

@Essel: Nice work only commenting on the one badly designed area instead of focusing on the gameplay and all the areas that do look good.

Old Post 11-30-11 05:23 #
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esselfortium
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DoomHero85 said:
I really like these remakes. The gameplay is much better now, and even though they are similar to the originals, they are different enough to provide a new experience.

@Essel: Nice work only commenting on the one badly designed area instead of focusing on the gameplay and all the areas that do look good.


Which ones? I haven't found any yet.

(I'm not trolling here, fyi)

Old Post 11-30-11 05:26 #
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Woolie Wool
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I don't see what's wrong with this aside from the dynamic lighting, which looks ugly no matter what map you use it in.

Old Post 11-30-11 05:33 #
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Grain of Salt
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Last edited by Grain of Salt on 06-01-12 at 16:37

Old Post 11-30-11 05:37 #
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Use3D
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DoomHero85 said:

@Essel: Nice work only commenting on the one badly designed area instead of focusing on the gameplay and all the areas that do look good.



What good does it do to only mention the stuff that isn't a problem?

Old Post 11-30-11 05:39 #
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Snakes
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TBH, I'm not at all interested in this :(

No offense, but These all have the same basic design and/or skylight. A lot of the other screenshots look highly derivative of their original rooms, as well. Granted, this seems to be the intent of the project, but I historically have not enjoyed straight-recreations of episodes. In addition, I'm seeing an awfully large amount of randomly placed border flats that aren't all that necessary and look really really awkward. As-is, this wad seems kind of bland.

Old Post 11-30-11 05:44 #
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MegaDoomer
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Snakes said:
TBH, I'm not at all interested in this :(

No offense, but These all have the same basic design and/or skylight. A lot of the other screenshots look highly derivative of their original rooms, as well. Granted, this seems to be the intent of the project, but I historically have not enjoyed straight-recreations of episodes. In addition, I'm seeing an awfully large amount of randomly placed border flats that aren't all that necessary and look really really awkward. As-is, this wad seems kind of bland.



Direct quote from text file.


If you're going to get turned off by maps, however well-crafted, that instantly transport you back 17 years to when you played the original Episode II, then take a pass on Deimos: Slight Return.


The curving stuff was present in a very similar manner in Phobos Revisited and also a majority of ReX's maps. And I don't see what's wrong with it.

Also since Woolie Wool hit it on the first one, I don't think anything is wrong with this either. Unless the curve linedef is a problem.

About the dynamic lighting, this wad is intended to be played in Vanilla, not a port, let alone OpenGL.


Third, the architecture is updated to current standards while staying within the limits of vanilla DooM. For, although players will undoubtedly use source ports, these levels are ultimately meant to be enjoyed first with vanilla DooM.


(again from text file)

Old Post 11-30-11 05:49 #
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Snakes
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Brandon... PL2 Map01 is vanilla compatible. Back to Basics is vanilla compatible. Fucking MM2 Map01 is vanilla compatible. They all look better than any of this.


If you're going to get turned off by maps, however well-crafted, that instantly transport you back 17 years to when you played the original Episode II, then take a pass on Deimos: Slight Return


Funny you should mention that - NMDU transports me back 17 years ago with entirely new maps. I never said I didn't like re-imaginings, I said I didn't like straight-recreations. Y'know... The same thing again? It's possible to trigger nostalgia/fond memories without throwing the exact same thing I've played dozens of times in my direction.

Also, up until now, I was unaware of Phobos Revisted's existence. I've never played it, thus making whatever point your were trying make moot.

Old Post 11-30-11 06:03 #
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Grain of Salt
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Last edited by Grain of Salt on 06-01-12 at 16:37

Old Post 11-30-11 06:15 #
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MegaDoomer
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Snakes said:
Brandon... PL2 Map01 is vanilla compatible. Back to Basics is vanilla compatible. Fucking MM2 Map01 is vanilla compatible. They all look better than any of this.



Funny you should mention that - NMDU transports me back 17 years ago with entirely new maps. I never said I didn't like re-imaginings, I said I didn't like straight-recreations. Y'know... The same thing again? It's possible to trigger nostalgia/fond memories without throwing the exact same thing I've played dozens of times in my direction.

Also, up until now, I was unaware of Phobos Revisted's existence. I've never played it, thus making whatever point your were trying make moot.



Sorry I wasn't trying to incite any arguments. I was just stating my own observations. NMDU probably is way better than this, I can agree wholeheartedly. I do admit this looks a bit more of a direct recreation that I'd prefer, which surprised me because I don't remember Phobos Revisited being that way. But I played it 7 years ago.

And although you have a point, I'm not entirely sold that comparing the architecture with other vanilla maps that have absolutely nothing to do with this release is fair.

I'm not even implying that DSR is good, because I've not played it. But I think I can still reference what the author himself wrote in the text, and make general observations.

Old Post 11-30-11 06:50 #
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Use3D
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MegaDoomer said:


And although you have a point, I'm not entirely sold that comparing the architecture with other vanilla maps that have absolutely nothing to do with this release is fair.




I would have to agree that comparing doom levels to other doom levels is completely insane.

Old Post 11-30-11 07:21 #
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Tango
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especially when the wad is supposedly updated to current standards, comparisons to recent vanilla wads is pretty fair, and even more-so to older vanilla wads

Old Post 11-30-11 10:06 #
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Vordakk
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So far it seems most people have mentioned(rightly so in most cases) some design/artistic issues. But the real test of a wad is how it plays. Can anyone comment on the gameplay of this levelset? I haven't had a chance to play it yet.

Old Post 11-30-11 10:56 #
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ellmo
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MegaDoomer said:
Direct quote from text file.

If you're going to get turned off by maps, however well-crafted, that instantly transport you back 17 years to when you played the original Episode II, then take a pass on Deimos: Slight Return.


Too bad the project does neither - it's not well crafted and it doesn't transport me anywhere. I really wanted to be transported 17 years back into E2 experience which is still probably the closest Doom episode to my heart.
Take note also both Esselfortium and Use3d have a soft spot for doom1-remake vanilla stuff, so we're exactly the people who this project is supposed to aim to please.

Also - hiding behind the readme is just cheap. It's like writing

if you don't like bad wads, you won't like it

which by logic is equivalent to

this is a bad wad

And that's what some people are trying to say.

Last edited by ellmo on 11-30-11 at 13:23

Old Post 11-30-11 13:12 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
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@Essel: How about the fight in e2m1 at the end with all the cacos? That was fight I wasn't expecting and it was fun as hell. How about in e2m2 when he changed the location of the exit, and made the secrets much harder to find? I also liked the new demon room in e2m1 with the lowering floor.

About the texturing and the way the rooms look in general, i don't give a rats ass how good it looks, if it has shitty gameplay, it has nothing. It might as well be a slide show.

I do agree that one area that you put a shot for looks weird, maybe not bad, but weird at least. I haven't actually played the whole thing yet, maybe it does get worse, but I don't think so.

E: One last thing, as the mod for this section, you should also be able to see when someone is having trouble learning something about how to make wads and help them out, i.e. explain color theory. Criticism is fine, but if it doesn't help, which obviously if this resembles his last work, Enjay's comment didn't, say something else. Being a leader anywhere means you need to lead, and advise, not just judge.

E2: Rex: There is a "Signal 11" error when trying to reload savegames.

Last edited by General Rainbow Bacon on 11-30-11 at 14:08

Old Post 11-30-11 13:51 #
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DeathevokatioN
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I'm a big fan of Rex's Fear is the Key so I'll probably get around to playing this at some point.

Old Post 11-30-11 15:25 #
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esselfortium
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DoomHero85 said:
One last thing, as the mod for this section, you should also be able to see when someone is having trouble learning something about how to make wads and help them out, i.e. explain color theory. Criticism is fine, but if it doesn't help, which obviously if this resembles his last work, Enjay's comment didn't, say something else. Being a leader anywhere means you need to lead, and advise, not just judge.

I agree wholeheartedly, and try to do so whenever I can!

Myself and others have taken the time to write multiple forum essays trying to explain this and other stuff to ReX and show exactly what was being referred to when being critical of his design. All the advice and suggestions are there, and there's not much point in repeating them yet again to someone who isn't interested in them.

I can still say I don't like it though :)

Old Post 11-30-11 17:42 #
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Glaice
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I'm gonna check this out and record a video or eight based on how far I get in this. :)

__________________
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Old Post 11-30-11 18:44 #
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Tango
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since when did essel get elevated from doomworld mod to nanny

the real test, though, is whether or not Daniel "Tormentor667" Gimmer thinks the wad Needs More Detail (TM). being the master of detail, including the art of computer terminals and borders, among others, as long as Tormentor approves then the wad is surely ok, making all other arguments invalid

Last edited by Tango on 12-01-11 at 01:31

Old Post 11-30-11 23:26 #
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Glaice
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Here are 4 vids of E2M1 to E2M4..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urc8hCh60jg E2M1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xDtz22Iuek E2M2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhHqCfdcu0o E2M3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-RDcbV5KKc E2M4

I used an altered BrutalDoom 0.13 with this.

Old Post 12-01-11 17:06 #
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ReX
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Mr. Chris said:
Here are 4 vids of E2M1 to E2M4... I used an altered BrutalDoom 0.13 with this.
Very cool Brutal DooM effects. I was enjoying watching the action so much that I forgot about watching the levels themselves.

What did you alter in Brutal DooM?

Old Post 12-02-11 04:02 #
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Kappes Buur
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Mr. Chris said:
Here are 4 vids of E2M1 to E2M4..


Great videos.
What source port and capture software did you use ?

Old Post 12-02-11 07:10 #
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Glaice
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ReX said:
Very cool Brutal DooM effects. I was enjoying watching the action so much that I forgot about watching the levels themselves.

What did you alter in Brutal DooM?



Enemy damage/projectile speed/health (to default Doom levels)/weapons damage in favor so I survive longer.

Old Post 12-02-11 13:16 #
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T-Rex
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Holy shit! This has got to be one of the best vanilla E2 remakes ever! Love the clever designs and puzzles in the maps. I don't mind the curves and all that since it's Rex's design style, I just love the set, familiar, yet fresh. Keep up the good work, Rex! Looking forward to see your remakes of the last two episodes in the future. Maybe you could compile them into a full 4 episode megawad if the series catches on!

Old Post 12-02-11 13:38 #
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DeathevokatioN
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T-Rex said:
I don't mind the curves and all that since it's Rex's design style
Yeah, same here. I'm not sure I'll play this because I just realized that it's basically a modified E2... but I really enjoyed playing Rex's original maps like Fear is the Key, and loved the uses of curves there, which wasn't overused imo... even if I could probably take a whole bunch of screens and post a few of them as examples of "bad detailing" I had fun with the map as a whole and liked how the layout opened up and the gameplay changed as you continued playing.

Last edited by DeathevokatioN on 12-02-11 at 15:01

Old Post 12-02-11 14:55 #
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esselfortium
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Post Helled the off-topic trolling. This thread is about ReX's Deimos: Slight Return and players' responses to it, not about starting fights because someone doesn't like the same things you like.

Old Post 12-02-11 15:01 #
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MajorRawne
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I can see both points of view from the discussion about remakes etc (first page of this thread). I personally don't like "remakes" of levels that are 20 years old, but I will try this wad when I get home, just to give it a chance. I prefer wads like AV and HR which represent the best of Doom at that exact moment in time, not current maps which chuck 20 years of progress out of the window.

Old Post 12-02-11 16:04 #
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