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Brewtal_Legend
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You can compare the screenshots to one another and have some difficulty knowing whether or not it has been taken from the original or the remake.


I kinda thought that was the point.

Old Post 12-11-11 18:30 #
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Mr. Freeze
etc.


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No the next step is episode 4, and then Dtwid2.

Old Post 12-11-11 18:30 #
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esselfortium
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Many of the issues with the old version of the music are still present in the updates, though. The songs frequently don't sound stylistically like Bobby Prince's Doom compositions, the cover songs are obvious in a way that becomes distracting, and there are still some sour notes and other problems.

It's a really, really, really really bad idea to take on a huge project without any sort of real communication with the people you're working with. None of us heard any of the soundtrack itself until you had it all complete, and none of us heard any of your updates to it until a few hours before the 1.0 release yesterday.

The general consensus was that the songs in their current state were mostly not appropriate to the project, which is something that could have been completely avoided had there been some actual communication going on.

I realize this is a really bad situation, and to be frank none of us are really comfortable with it. We debated over the inclusion of them in a separate wad, but I honestly don't think it'd be appropriate for us to bundle the project with a set of music that isn't appropriate to it.

For what it's worth, I think many of your more original compositions from the set could potentially be a great fit for other major (mega)wad projects where their differences from the style and mood of Doom's original music would be a benefit rather than a drawback.

Old Post 12-11-11 18:32 #
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DeathevokatioN
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Hmmmm, if Freezes music doesn't get accepted here, maybe he could post the whole list onto other project threads such as Interception or Community Chest 4 for people to cherry pick... just an idea.

Old Post 12-11-11 18:36 #
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Mr. Freeze
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So put it in as a seperate file, bundle it with the wad, and I stop bitching. You are losing nothing by doing that. Im happy for my work being included, you guys are happy because its not mandatory, and the players will like it or not. And if they dont, it only takes one click to remove.

Old Post 12-11-11 18:46 #
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Gez
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Well how about you start by posting the music wad somewhere where people currently playing Deetwid can grab it and see what they think of it for themselves?

Old Post 12-11-11 18:54 #
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Marcaek
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You know, considering that Id made several changes to maps in their patching, perhaps we could release updated versions on the DTWID site? At least until some of the more significant issues are dealt with?

It would be a good idea to use the deadline system we used with the main release for said patching, so there aren't a million versions floating around. Unfortunately it might be a mess for idgames to deal with.

Old Post 12-11-11 19:20 #
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Glaice
formerly Mr. Chris


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I do have a copy of the music I downloaded a bit ago if anyone's interested..

Freeze's music (From June 2011)

@40z: Megalyth beat you to it.

__________________
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Last edited by Glaice on 12-11-11 at 23:00

Old Post 12-11-11 19:23 #
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Megamur
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Yes, Mr. Freeze, why not just upload your music as a separate WAD, with the tracks ordered to cover what levels you think they best belong to? I don't think anyone's really stopping you from still calling your work DTWID's soundtrack; it'd just be a separate download.

And did all the maps I playtest get cut or something? Did playtesters simply not get credit? Or did you guys just completely forget about me? I'm willing to bet the latter. No hard feelings, of course. I just get excited whenever I see my name on a DOOM project. :)

Old Post 12-11-11 19:26 #
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esselfortium
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Marcaek said:
You know, considering that Id made several changes to maps in their patching, perhaps we could release updated versions on the DTWID site? At least until some of the more significant issues are dealt with?

It would be a good idea to use the deadline system we used with the main release for said patching, so there aren't a million versions floating around. Unfortunately it might be a mess for idgames to deal with.


There are definitely some minor bugs that have cropped up (fortunately none that are game-breaking issues) and will be fixed for a 1.1 release (probably in a week or two I guess) once we're at least reasonably confident that we're not going to find a bunch more, like, a day later. :p

Old Post 12-11-11 19:33 #
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Marcaek
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If you still feel like tweaking E2M8, I'd suggest adding a few more sargeants or something because it is a little easy. Also, like I said in another thread I think there's maybe one layer of security too many on the vault.

Last edited by Marcaek on 12-11-11 at 19:43

Old Post 12-11-11 19:36 #
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_bruce_
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Hey - didn't know this was already out.
Awesome job!
Will start playing today.

Old Post 12-11-11 19:52 #
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Cell
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Mr. Freeze said:
No the next step is episode 4 [...]

I've just spedmap'd something E4ish.

Old Post 12-11-11 20:02 #
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Mr. Freeze
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I can't upload anything until Monday (posting from my phone). In the meantime, xaser and hellbent have the updated release.
And I don't want to have it be a separate download. I want It packaged in the main zip file. Easier to find and use that way.

Old Post 12-11-11 20:08 #
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Woolie Wool
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Mr. Chris said:
I do have a copy of the music I downloaded a bit ago if anyone's interested..

Freeze's music

@40z: Megalyth beat you to it.



That copy of the music is from June.

Old Post 12-11-11 20:12 #
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darkreaver
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I actually think I`m gonna play E1 of this release. Christmas time always makes me Doom nostalgic (never liked E2 or E3)

Old Post 12-11-11 20:13 #
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ellmo
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I don't know why people get so defensive about what Sigvatr wrote. He had the right to do so and I don't find anything insulting or insolent about his review.
It's based on his subjective opinion and from what I gathered, he doesn't like the fact we recreated Doom along with it's often simple and non-intimidating gameplay, oriented more at exploration and atmosphere, and not-always-straightforward map layouts.

The problem is - it was the whole point in mapping for this project, because these are the features of Doom... a very different game from Doom2.

I can relate to that by reverse-analogy, as I don't really find it fun anymore to blast through HR styled megawads, that copy the same patterns all the time. Throughout the 18 years I have proved to myself many times that I can deal with stupid 4-archvile traps, chaingunners on platforms far-far away, multiple cyberdemons in tight places and so on. I lost interest in challenge, so I play most of the classic megawads on HMP or even HNTR, because pressing MOUSE1 and running all the time stopped being fun 5 years ago.

Therefore, if I reviewed a recent hi-difficulty Doom2 megawad, I'd also concentrate more on the looks and atmosphere rather than a challenge that 6 Revenants in a dark room provide.

I'd just be one of those people, to whom the wad wasn't really addressed, but would that make my opinion any less valid?



Also: 40oz, I see you found the quote button. Good going, have a cookie.

Old Post 12-11-11 20:24 #
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Woolie Wool
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Well Hell Revealed and its successors are an even more different game from Doom II than Doom II is from the original. At that point, it ceases to be a first-person shooter and becomes some sort of abstract arena game, and completely loses me.

Old Post 12-11-11 20:32 #
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ellmo
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Woolie Wool said:
Well Hell Revealed and its successors are an even more different game from Doom II than Doom II is from the original. At that point, it ceases to be a first-person shooter and becomes some sort of abstract arena game, and completely loses me.

That's my point - but there are so many projects like this. So many projects that just want to kill me in various ways that I have been killed before, rather than just tell a story or to put me in a good mood.
So I try to enjoy them the way I want, but sometimes it's not possible.

I completely accept when someone says "well I can't enjoy your project"

Old Post 12-11-11 20:48 #
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Grain of Salt
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__________________
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wwitch: hmmm
wwitch: hard to top that

Last edited by Grain of Salt on 06-01-12 at 16:40

Old Post 12-11-11 20:59 #
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DeathevokatioN
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Nice to see this thing finally get released!

At the risk of sounding like a pompous twat I'm going to reply here;

Woolie, I think what Sigvatr is trying to say was that he thinks this is text book cookie cutter Doom mapping, it is possible to imitate every feature and quirk in the book and still come up with something that isn't a gripping Doom experience and feels a little washed out when compared directly to the originals. I couldn't agree with your analagy of modern art more, though, even though I think it doesn't apply to Sig's review.

I remember playing the alpha and some of the E1 levels felt a little uninspired and flat gameplay wise, and lacked the brooding atmosphere that made the originals awesome, IMO, although a lot of the culprits ended up being replaced, and then again I was absolutely blown away by Lake of Fire, so I'm going to have to try this again with an unbiased playthrough, and am looking forward to giving it a second chance. :)

Old Post 12-11-11 21:13 #
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esselfortium
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DeathevokatioN said:
I remember playing the alpha and some of the E1 levels felt a little uninspired and flat gameplay wise, and lacked the brooding atmosphere that made the originals awesome, IMO, although a lot of the culprits ended up being replaced, and then again I was absolutely blown away by Lake of Fire, so I'm going to have to try this again with an unbiased playthrough, and am looking forward to giving it a second chance. :)

Yeah, things have changed pretty significantly from the original public alpha. Only 11 of the alpha's 27 maps appear in the final release at all, and some of those 11 that have been kept have been changed and improved upon pretty significantly.

Hope you enjoy this when you get around to playing it :)

Old Post 12-11-11 21:57 #
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Woolie Wool
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Gez said:


I don't think he meant that innovation was better than iteration. It seemed closer to vice-versa:

In other words: toss limit-pushing mods, slaughtermaps and advanced source port in the garbage bin, they suck. DTWID is ushering in a new age free from these sins against "crystalline purity".

In fact it seems to me that the review could be summed up as "disappointing because not purist enough".

And I really don't see how to turn that into a rant about how innovation is better.



In the very beginning of his review he uses "all the great Doom wads are based on an idea yet to come to fruition" and then says that DTWID cannot be a great Doom wad because it invokes the original Id style instead of creating it's own. This is the primary basis for his arguments, that only Id can make great Id-style maps.

Of course the review is rather muddled and shrouded in a fog of pomposity so it's hard to tell exactly what he actually wants, but he seems to want some sort of Cyberdreams-like high concept wad built around some sort of very innovative new gameplay idea while still remaining within vanilla Doom limits. However, all of the good innovations suitable for underpinning a large wad without resorting to more powerful tools like ZDoom have long since been exhausted, and that was never the point of DTWID anyway.

Old Post 12-11-11 22:05 #
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ellmo
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Xaser said:
Well, since it's been brought up, here's a temp. link to Freeze's music:
http://www.mediafire.com/?3pfw8tu1g0xeh48


*.WAD would be so much more welcome.

Last edited by ellmo on 12-11-11 at 22:16

Old Post 12-11-11 22:09 #
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Marcaek
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E2M8 definitely plays better than the previous version, but I kinda missed the
Spoiler:
FACE textures. I was going for an "audience of the damned" thing there. The GSTONE and lost souls make it feel very similar to Tower of Babel as well but I suppose it stands on it's own regardless.


It certainly is architecturally polished though.

Old Post 12-11-11 22:55 #
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Processingcontrol
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I really think Mr. Freeze's music should be included. I though it sounded fine, and what harm would be done by putting it in a separate wad? I'd be really pissed off if I spent months working on something and the people I was working for suddenly gave me the finger by deciding not to use it.

Old Post 12-11-11 23:02 #
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NaturalTvventy
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I think to claim that the DTWID is some harbinger of classic and that detail-oriented mapping is a goner is fairly reduncular. Vanilla is a trend as of late, but there are still plenty of folks out there pushing the limits of the engine, and there always will be. I find enjoyment in all forms, and will continue to map in a variety of fashions, as I am sure many others will as well. As quickly as vanilla came into style, we are all going to get sick of sculpting our maps around visplanes and switch back over to the freedom of various degrees of limit removing.

Old Post 12-11-11 23:39 #
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valkiriforce
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I'm going to be honest and say I can't play this knowing there is original music for it somewhere. I'm going to wait until someone posts the soundtrack (preferably in .WAD format, as Ellmo stated).

Old Post 12-11-11 23:45 #
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Marcaek
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Up to E2M4 now. Wasn't really feeling it till E1M4, the rest of E1 as pretty good and E1M8 was perfect. E2 has been good so far, really got the atmosphere down. The
Spoiler:
choose your weapon
section in E2M2 was hilarious :P

Old Post 12-11-11 23:47 #
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hex11
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For those asking for it, here's a music PWAD of the tracks Xaser linked to. It's compressed with bzip2.

I actually just inserted all those songs into my copy of dtwid.wad, since I had to extract the released version as it wouldn't run at all in Freedoom: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/freedoo...wad-doesnt-run/
But I guess I can't distribute that merged version since the text file has "Authors may NOT use the contents of this file as a base for modification or reuse". So that version stays on my machine.

Old Post 12-12-11 09:50 #
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