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cannonball
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Yeah the map is still work in progress tbh just wanted to put it through to see whether things are on the right traps.
- reloading monsters in start area - I will remove all monsters except Pain elementals and archviles. The flying monsters won't clog up the start room.
- It was supposed to be a trick of sorts (fake exit type thing), it probably isn't neccessary.
- Yeah I know this too, there isn't enough room for the monsters to teleport freely. I will have to reformat that room or simply delete it to be honest.
- When you take that teleporter, look to you right, on the wall there should be an area removed which has a switch, flip that to gain access to the final area. The idea was to allow the player to rush through the outdoor section, face the final battle then being able to return to the outdoors section, given infighting would have taken its toll and monsters would have grouped up. More for speedrunners than anyone else, but if the point above is remedied then this explanation might be irrelevant.
Any suggestions on a finale would be helpful as I'm a little burnt out tbh. Whether it is a different set up or just delete the ending and have the outdoors section as the final battle.

Your final point on total recall, maybe, it would be too difficult to implement, I think this might have been mentioned before as accidentally exiting the level is pretty easy. I might actually place switches in the exit sectors to lower the exit teleporter, that might work better without hindering the player too much.

Old Post 10-29-12 23:44 #
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j4rio
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The problem is not the finale room or encounter itself, but the broken dummy teleporter rooms with monsters.

Old Post 10-30-12 10:57 #
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j4rio
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So, I opened up DH's map in doombuilder... and few days later this materialized itself on my laptop. Lo and behold - a map. I hereby dub thee Doomherolandia.




It probably sucks, but hey. Requires cc4-tex.

Last edited by j4rio on 10-30-12 at 22:40

Old Post 10-30-12 21:46 #
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Rayzik
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Doomherolandia FDA

No comment.

Old Post 10-31-12 00:13 #
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j4rio
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... yeah :-)

here's a slow max that made me realise there's a bunch of junk to change

http://filesmelt.com/dl/lmp.lmp

Old Post 10-31-12 02:07 #
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TimeOfDeath
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j4rio, what map of DH's did you edit? I just wanna make sure so I can edit the first post.

Old Post 10-31-12 02:13 #
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Memfis
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Cool stuff j4rio, some fun fights and I like your funky item placement even though it might be annoying for speedruns (collectiong ammo boxes instead of single rockets would be much more convenient). For some reason I found the start very hard but when I finally survived it, I got very far: FDA. (for this version)

Old Post 10-31-12 13:06 #
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j4rio
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Memfis said:
Cool stuff j4rio, some fun fights and I like your funky item placement even though it might be annoying for speedruns (collectiong ammo boxes instead of single rockets would be much more convenient). For some reason I found the start very hard but when I finally survived it, I got very far: FDA. (for this version)


Thanks. Nice playing btw.

- I kinda like the ammo as it is, because there won't be much or any discarding if you reach inventory limit. They are not that scattered for the most time anyways.

- Yup, it is, but I don't want to alter it though. It's easier in lower difficulties where you get ssg and health at start.

Here's a version 2
http://filesmelt.com/dl/Doomherolandia_v2.wad

- made the first trigger hopefully more obvious
- you can't pass through first arach
- area opens up a bit more after you get rl
- added monster-only teleporters in plasma gun area
- some unimportant changes in platformy room


TimeOfDeath said:
j4rio, what map of DH's did you edit? I just wanna make sure so I can edit the first post.


Chunks of this, this and a bit of this stitched together.

Last edited by j4rio on 11-01-12 at 17:27

Old Post 11-01-12 13:44 #
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Rayzik
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I don't know why I'm posting this, it's nothing different from the first time lol.

Doomherlandia V2 Demo

I must be bad at doom or something.

Old Post 11-01-12 20:18 #
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j4rio
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Lols. You could try it on HMP. Lemme know results then. :p
I'll probably keep soulsphere in UV though.

E: v3 adding just soulsphere near start in UV and few unimportancies

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?5uj59lcx30b975v

E: v4 adding another soulsphere in room after PEs and more skill level related changes

http://www.mediafire.com/?8otvcq0hjnuzhhj

I'm not too sure about encounter in plasma gun area, but I'm out of ideas. Some suggestions might help.

Last edited by j4rio on 11-02-12 at 13:36

Old Post 11-01-12 20:45 #
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dannebubinga
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j4rio: Hmm. I didn't get far at all. The start is way to cramped for my taste. And when I discovered that you made the blue skull bars open up a bit, I cursed you. The cyberdemon can deal damage anyway with his formidable sniping skills.

crappy fda for v3: http://www.mediafire.com/?l53q3drnn932pn0

Old Post 11-02-12 13:36 #
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j4rio
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Yup, I admit it's cramped a bit. Many parts are slightly inspired by Death-Destiny wads that I played not long ago (here's one). I'm thinking of keeping ssg in UV at start even though it would nerf it much more than I intended. Basically whole map is tested to work with just SG.

Old Post 11-02-12 13:45 #
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dannebubinga
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Phml: Trifling 1021 FDA: http://www.mediafire.com/?41xi5p42zulu4ez

Awesome map! The only thing I thought while playing was that you could put a SG on top of the SSG at start so the SG pick-up in mid game doesn't get so annoying. I would also like to see you swap some of the spectres (the ones inside the medkit pillars) for other monsters to suprise the player.

Visual: Swap the marble goats for something else or some other marble color. They didn't blend to well with the other textures. And put that megasphere in the mancubus yard in the middle of the pillar so I don't have to be annoyed about it's "non-centered-appearance" :P The switches in the first room have a brighter sector that lights up the ceiling, fix!

Great work

Old Post 11-02-12 14:09 #
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j4rio
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v5 adds ssg to start of UV, now in 100% nerfed flavour... oh well

http://www.mediafire.com/?xr59j0m2xj0zxo1

Old Post 11-02-12 14:18 #
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dannebubinga
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lol. I didn't ask you to change anything. I just hate cramped maps because I'm never lucky enough to score double kills or make the monsters move where I want them to be.

Old Post 11-02-12 14:23 #
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j4rio
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Nah, I think it'd be better like that at least until/if I think of an alternative.

Old Post 11-02-12 14:25 #
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j4rio
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v6 with more unimportant changes and another slow 15 minute-ish max

I'll probably call it a day unless there are some more suggestions.

http://filesmelt.com/dl/Doomherolandia_v6.zip

Old Post 11-03-12 00:54 #
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Ribbiks
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I made a new map:

Island of Mystery v1 (requires cc4-tex)

Here's a screenshot if anyone so desires: http://i.imgur.com/8jhWp.jpg

Made the map in pretty much in one sitting (albeit a long one). It's relatively short and easy and you should have lots of ammo if you use the cybies wisely.

Difficulty settings not implemented yet, I'd like to see what you guys think before fine-tuning. I was going for a map that might fit well early in the wad.

Last edited by Ribbiks on 11-03-12 at 10:12

Old Post 11-03-12 09:49 #
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j4rio
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Sweet! Although would have been even sweeter if it was a little less menacingly difficult and somewhat less tedious.

The cyb infight at start just takes too long. It becomes boring quickly after just 2-3 replays. You can also play it safely if you don't make noise. If you do make noise then infights go pretty much as fast as if you didn't, you just have to dodge more and cyb can get much more easily dispatched during infighting, which means more trouble because RL is on platform with a group of HKs and you've got just shotguns with limited ammo to take them out. The BFG fight would be fine but those 4 AVs in open area with rather limited cover are rather nay than yay. Also you shouldn't be able to access the outside section with AVs right away, as it means a rather cheap death if you enter it unprepared. The last fight is somewhat awkward, as you can just pick key, sit back and enjoy observing infight between cyb and revs.

So, overall, looks awesome but gameplay needs some work.

If I were to suggest something, first and last cybs feel somewhat unnecessary. You could just give away RL at start of map and have player handle the whole start area alone. RL on HK platform could be changed to plasma and reveals the cyb, which leaves an option to either take him out right away and use up ammo or to leave him alone for later when you can instigate infight and later use BFG at him. The last rev fight could begin once you press red switch rather than when you pick red key, and adding a cyb to it is probably unnecessary.

some demos
http://filesmelt.com/dl/junk.zip

Last edited by j4rio on 11-03-12 at 14:47

Old Post 11-03-12 14:18 #
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dannebubinga
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What j4rio said!

Nice map otherwise.

Old Post 11-03-12 15:15 #
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Phml
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FDA for Island of Mystery v1. Few deaths, doesn't complete.

Loved it. :) You've quickly become my favorite new mapper.

Some minor issues here and there - the water seemed too efficient of a chokepoint as monsters don't climb those stairs easily; and if they did, falling down would be a death trap.

That said, it's not an ideal spot anyway as you won't generate infights as efficiently as if you were up, so it's not too gamebreaking and can provide room to breath when the player is getting overwhelmed.

I don't know. It bugs me a little. If it were my map, I'd probably not let the player jump down at all, but I'd be hard pressed to rationalize that choice.

The plasma gun/imp/rev fight felt a bit stressful to me, much like that somewhat similar encounter in your other map. A little stress can be nice and make victory more rewarding, but it can also make people not want to replay the area (and hence the map) again after they get blasted by arch-viles they had absolutely no reason to expect popping up on a faraway platform as you move out. ;)

Basically, my suggestion would be to ditch the AVs popping up on that soulsphere platform (although as I gave up at that point I'm not necessarily understanding their role) or make the imp/rev fight more lenient. Not necessarily more space, but more health and ammo would be nice. I'd think frontloading the ammo right away, and leaving the rest of the teleport spots for medikits would make sense. Running out of ammo is a death sentence and you don't get a chance to scout first.

Really though, loved it. :)

Old Post 11-03-12 18:07 #
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cannonball
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I thought I might as well donate another map, short history, this map was supposed to be a map in a boom compatible megawad I was making but as it has stalled in progress I though I might as well ship this map over here as it is a slaughtermap.
Royale Arena
http://www.mediafire.com/?35iexys14fr4ahu

This uses the concept used in HR's Map28, whether this works or not I'm not sure. I tweaked the map a lot over the past couple of hours, actually reducing the monster couple by a good hundred or so and added teleporters to guide you between areas and the central arena to aid in speedrunning. This map probably needs a bit of work gameplaywise tbh.
Edit - This uses the cc4-tex, sorry for forgetting probably the most important note :P

-Still working on True Grit and tweaking the architecture and fights, hopefully should have it done tomorrow.

@Ribbiks, wow some really impressive stuff there, I wish I could make maps as good looking as yours :)

Last edited by cannonball on 11-04-12 at 01:53

Old Post 11-03-12 23:57 #
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j4rio
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Wow, that's some impressive stuff. Managed to beat it in one go within half an hour.

http://filesmelt.com/dl/royal-FDA-j4.zip

Old Post 11-04-12 01:52 #
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Ribbiks
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j4rio said:
The cyb infight at start just takes too long. It becomes boring quickly after just 2-3 replays. You can also play it safely if you don't make noise. If you do make noise then infights go pretty much as fast as if you didn't, you just have to dodge more and cyb can get much more easily dispatched during infighting,


With a little luck, if you play the way I intended you should have the RL within the first 30 seconds, see this demo: http://www.mediafire.com/?v48vmdd851whp5f



The BFG fight would be fine but those 4 AVs in open area with rather limited cover are rather nay than yay.


one tactic that seemed pretty effective was waiting til all monsters just make it out of their closets (AVs are last in line), then run behind them from rev platform and bfg away. I would be open to the idea of removing maybe 2 of the AVs and having more arachs tele in or something.



Also you shouldn't be able to access the outside section with AVs right away, as it means a rather cheap death if you enter it unprepared.


that area can be beaten with just a ssg (and the provided PG), it just takes longer. It was sort of meant to reward the player for conserving bfg ammo by being able to kill the 6 AVs quickly.



The last fight is somewhat awkward, as you can just pick key, sit back and enjoy observing infight between cyb and revs.


Interesting, I agree it should be changed. I think I'll change it according to your suggestion, make revs triggered by red key door, I'll rework the trap when you pick up the key.




You could just give away RL at start of map and have player handle the whole start area alone. RL on HK platform could be changed to plasma and reveals the cyb, which leaves an option to either take him out right away and use up ammo or to leave him alone for later when you can instigate infight and later use BFG at him.


I'll play around with this idea, but I kind of like the first part for some reason. if you get the cyb to kill the right imps (as in the above demo) it really doesn't take very long.



some demos
http://filesmelt.com/dl/junk.zip



nice! I see you almost made it to the super secret bonus secret area! (the outside ledge in the CG area)

Also nice catch on getting stuck by the RK!


Phml said:
Loved it. :) You've quickly become my favorite new mapper.


Thanks! That's really encouraging, I'm glad you enjoy the maps!




Some minor issues here and there - the water seemed too efficient of a chokepoint as monsters don't climb those stairs easily; and if they did, falling down would be a death trap.


Hmmm... after watching the demos I see what you mean, I'll toy around with this for a bit.



The plasma gun/imp/rev fight felt a bit stressful to me, much like that somewhat similar encounter in your other map.


Indeed, except this one is easily beaten if you camp one of the 4 teleporters. I'll consider putting more health and frontloading the ammo as you suggested.



my suggestion would be to ditch the AVs popping up on that soulsphere platform



it's only 1 AV, most of the time he doesn't really cause any trouble. I actually put that window there for the sole purpose of having him roast the unsuspecting player, a bit mean in hindsight :D


Thanks for the feedback guys, v2 will likely be a bit more forgiving and hopefully more fun.

Old Post 11-04-12 05:51 #
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Ribbiks
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Island of Mystery v.2

- difficulty settings implemented
- nerfed bfg fight
- split final encounter into two parts
- added more health
- redistributed ammo in PG area
- bug fixes / minor detailing

Old Post 11-04-12 08:03 #
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Ribbiks
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cannonball said:
Royale Arena
http://www.mediafire.com/?35iexys14fr4ahu



have a demo

got like 20 mins (3 keys) in and died, lots of random AVs in this map. Lots of space to move around as well. I think I like it.

The music was awesome, sounds like something from touhou. where's it from?


edit: hurray triple post!

Old Post 11-04-12 09:27 #
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j4rio
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Managed to beat v2, 12 minute-ish.
http://filesmelt.com/dl/iom-demo-j4.lmp

I don't know, I just can't help it - I can't enjoy making stuff infight while there's absolutely nothing else to do, just waiting...
The handling of start in 30 seconds you posted involves quite a bit of recklessness and luck, which is something that's barely expectable outside speedruns where you are encouraged to keep replaying stuff for eternity. I usually can't get RL before 2 minute mark while trying not to get myself killed. Also, the possibility of cyber dying and player getting basically screwed just because of rng is still there.

I would remove one AV from the first batch of 2x3 AVs in the outside section. With the limited space given at first, 3 seems a bit too much to be possible to somewhat reliably handle with ssg.

I would swap those shell boxes behind door opening after pressing red switch with rocket boxes in the revenant closet.

Old Post 11-04-12 10:31 #
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Phml
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FDA for Royale Arena v1. Few deaths, eventually gets an exit.

It was alright overall, but I feel there is one overarching issue here: visuals.

Your texturing is a bit all over the place, with so many different colors everything blends together. Adding to that effect, some of the textures used (thinking of those marble ones) are fairly noisy. There's also torches at projectile height, midtextures... None of these things are intrinsically bad, but due to the varied and extensive usage of all that stuff here, monsters and projectiles end up blurring with the environment, and routes are harder to see and plan.

Having a more uniform environment is much more conductive to interesting gameplay, IMHO. With a dull background, enemies have better contrast and hence stick out more, making the situation easier to read, and it's also easier for you as the mapper to draw attention to particular highlights (be it powerups, switches, keys or routes) through lighting or texture change. With clearly defined architectural conventions (i.e. using a particular texture for a wall, a particular flat for a floor, another particular flat for a floor height change), navigating through the level becomes second nature to the player allowing greater emphasis on fighting itself and a generally smoother experience.

Aesthetically, it often looks better to stick to a few colors as well; and something that looks better is also something that sticks better. If I try to remember Ribbiks' map, which I played yesterday, it's easy: jungle stuff, with brown metal stuff, beige wood, green vines, blue water. I can see it in my mind as if I were actually ingame. If I try to remember yours, which I played one hour ago, memories are already starting to vanish. There was beige marble and black marble, and some lava, and some red pillars, and some green floor (I think?), and some brown waist-high walls with torches. I can think of it in terms of layout, but visually I literally have no idea how certain areas looked like.

On the plus side, Royale Arena makes a good argument for why barons are useful even in a game with hell knights. The map feels positively crowded with monsters despite a "low" 700ish monster count, and it's due in large part to those barons hordes tanking a fair amount of damage. Neat stuff. :)

Old Post 11-04-12 11:50 #
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j4rio
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One thing regarding royale I forgot to mention - the room with barons and archviles that closes you in could really use at least some columns for dodging archviles. As it is now you are just hoping that they'll be occupied infighting while you keep picking them off. They don't have to be huge nor there has to be many of them, as the map is quite generous with powerups everywhere.

I didn't mind anything regarding texturing or looks btw.


The music was awesome, sounds like something from touhou. where's it from?


Wild guess would be Lufia 2

Last edited by j4rio on 11-04-12 at 13:50

Old Post 11-04-12 13:45 #
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dobu gabu maru
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I meant to comment on Island of Mystery before it was updated. Whoopsies.

Anyway, I'll try to comment on things about v.1 I think could still be pertinent.

It's a fun little playground of mischief, but the biggest problem I had was something that ruined my first run: I ran to the PG island and had a pretty gnarly battle with the AVs, but as soon as you fire, you're pretty much doomed as imps begin to swamp the walkway to the island. After the rev/imp trap, the imps continue to flood in, and I didn't have enough ammo/health to push back out to the courtyard. So going to the PG island and doing those nasty battles with only the SSG provides no bonus or advantage to the player, only dooming them to a firebally hell. I think it'd be better to lock the player out of exploring it in the start by placing imps around it, or doing something to make the room around that island block sound.

Also, might just be me, but the 3 AVs at the start of the PG island are a tad much, since it reduces the player (wielding the SSG) to shoot the middle one and hope he can stun the bastard enough to take care of him. Taking the middle one out and only having two move around in the arena feels more fair to me, at least if you're intending it to be an early map. The next 3 are superb though, really fun. Also, like Phml, I found the teleporter onslaught afterwards a tad too much, as the only viable option I found was just camping one of the teleporter spots like you advised. Just seems kinda cheap to me.

Didn't have much of a problem other than that one island, since I spent a long time doing those battles just to learn I can't get back out, and when I later returned with the BFG it was a joke. Only other weird thing was the water pit at the chaingunner side, since they're a tad too high up to hit without knowing where to stand to see them. And getting back up to the arena is a hassle with the imps loitering the curve, especially since the tele points you out towards the pedestals. Might've just been my experience.

Pretty neat level though, I thought it was exceptionally devious that you extended the bridge out to the exit-switch far enough that it's damn near impossible to avoid rev rockets, forcing you to deal with the majority of them before rushing to the end.

I also finished DHlandia, and it's a pretty frantic, goofy, but fair level. I never felt overwhelmed or pissed at any battle, as it was a pretty smooth ride overall. Only noticed a few things: cybie lifts look weird since they're pegged, the tele the cyberdemon is protecting in the blue key room seems too big (as it's really easy to just nab the key and run out), and there may be too much cell in the mastermind room... although that last problem might be fixed if you teleport a couple cybies into the hallway back to the starting room, so when you grab the yellow key and jump through the tele, you have to tango with three cybies. Other than that, it's a neat map, if not a bit ugly.

Old Post 11-04-12 19:16 #
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