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Ribbiks
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Posts: 1220
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So I made a map: Electric Wizard v1 (requires sf2011-tex)

I'm not really sure if this is what you guys are looking for in a slaughter map, many parts are cramped and mean and the monster count isn't overly high, but there are a couple sizable encounters so who knows. I'm very receptive to criticism, so by all means tear it apart, and if the gameplay isn't really what y'all are looking for I'll just release it on my own.

Notes about this version:
- will add more details / lighting variations later
- not entirely sure about health / ammo balance (I think there's a bit too much of both)
- no difficulty levels or multiplayer starts implemented yet

Screenshots, if you wish:
http://i.imgur.com/G7UMV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NrztX.jpg

Old Post 09-25-12 06:33 #
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j4rio
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darkreaver said:
Pure Hate: http://www.sendspace.com/file/qv3yqy

Cramped stuff! (Plays on map01)



Aw, you were kidding with the withdrawal of this from sf, right? It's probably better than at least half of submissions. It'd work impeccably as one of starter maps.

FDA - finishes after a bit of embarrassment
http://filesmelt.com/dl/purehate-fda-j41.lmp

Some notes :
- I'd cut the generous ammo stock, especially rockets, so you'd have to make sure shots connect to targets.
- I'd place RL further into progress, maybe onto cyb waterfall, and change RL ammo in starting sections to SSG ammo - there could be surplus of shells, because it's in most cases not the weapon of choice in cramped maps. Cells could be kept as they are now. Both this and previous note could be kept for UV-only.
- Some ammo could be moved so it wouldn't be a mandatory pick if you wanted to progress.
- YK battle should lock player in
- There's little to no use for invulnerability in secret without preknowledge IMO.
- Few encounters could use a tune-up. The very last battle ripes for something bigger, like, for example, all the walls opening up and stuff rushes in from every direction, or something. I'm not the guy for hints about witty encounters.
- That wooden platform with BFG has some missing textures.

I know you probably don't feel like bothering with this, but I thought I should just post this while I had it in mind.

Old Post 09-25-12 07:55 #
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j4rio
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Ribbiks said:
So I made a map: Electric Wizard v1 (requires sf2011-tex)



FDA - http://filesmelt.com/dl/ribk-fda-j4.lmp
doesn't exit

Neat, I really liked it. I can't think of anything I could point out, so altering is up to you.

Old Post 09-25-12 08:38 #
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Ribbiks
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very impressive play (as usual)! you seem to breeze by a lot of areas that gave me trouble while testing. (in particular you handled the cybie/HK infighting much better than I usually do)

some ideas I got while watching:
- plasma gun in kind of awkward position, room is already cleared by the time you're over there, I guess either reposition it or make the trap more interesting.
- megasphere secret is kind of 'out of the way', maybe make it trigger enemies or something
- I did not know it was possible to get the berserk like that... pretty impressive strafe-run actually, I think I'll keep that in
- too much cell ammo in places you don't really need it
- too much health in yellow-key room
- I noticed a weird glitch that kept happening, somehow each time you entered the big square room you somehow woke up the deaf AV that chills by the mega-armor in the circular stairs, I have no idea how...

Old Post 09-25-12 09:30 #
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darkreaver
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j4rio said:



Some notes :
- I'd cut the generous ammo stock, especially rockets, so you'd have to make sure shots connect to targets.
- I'd place RL further into progress, maybe onto cyb waterfall, and change RL ammo in starting sections to SSG ammo - there could be surplus of shells, because it's in most cases not the weapon of choice in cramped maps. Cells could be kept as they are now. Both this and previous note could be kept for UV-only.
- Some ammo could be moved so it wouldn't be a mandatory pick if you wanted to progress.
- YK battle should lock player in
- There's little to no use for invulnerability in secret without preknowledge IMO.
- Few encounters could use a tune-up. The very last battle ripes for something bigger, like, for example, all the walls opening up and stuff rushes in from every direction, or something. I'm not the guy for hints about witty encounters.
- That wooden platform with BFG has some missing textures.




- I practically made the map for rocket spamming, but I`ve removed some, and added shells.
- I have not moved the RL
- I have moved some of the ammo that was in the players mandatory path, not all though
- YK battle now locks you in
- minor changes to some of the battles, but not much
- I think this map need the CC4-texture pack (I have no missing textures, and I`m using that pack)
- The invul is visible from the start area (not visible enough obviously ;P )and if you don`t feel like grabbing it, you could always just go back through the teleporter and save it for later. ANYWAY, you wont have the chance to anmore as I switched it with a soulsphere ;)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/9klhnw (very much untested since I added changes)

Also, feel free to use the map in SF2012 if you guys want to though.

Old Post 09-25-12 20:18 #
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j4rio
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Seems like no red key is in map anymore. :p

Old Post 09-25-12 20:40 #
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TimeOfDeath
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aw, thanks for desyncing my demo ;)

Old Post 09-25-12 21:15 #
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darkreaver
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No red key? Just IDKFA then...

Sorry ToD, I liked your demo, but you know, sometimes you have to let go of something you TRULY LOVE and care about. In this case I had to sacrifice that .lmp :,(

With key: http://www.sendspace.com/file/cm7tq1

Old Post 09-25-12 22:12 #
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j4rio
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Doing any demos at this stage can be risky. Playthrough-ish yeah, no probs, but hyperoptimising stuff that may end up with an error and requires fixing is not too bright. For example, I take it you won't fix degrassi glboom HOMs because it'd make your demo desync. BTW, slaughtenstein, exodus, boom town and unleash the fire demos from OP should be removed as they are all desyncing for quite a while now.

Also, this is latest version of 'boom town' not linked to in OP - http://filesmelt.com/dl/BTAE.wad

Also, last thing - could there be a rule to add a midi to map? If you don't want to, add at least a silent midi (obtainable from sf11). If you want doom2 midi, transfer it to wad anyway so it won't change if it ends up getting moved to different map slot.

Last edited by j4rio on 09-25-12 at 22:44

Old Post 09-25-12 22:36 #
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dobu gabu maru
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Posts: 1068
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I was messing around with pixelating a skull and I made an M_DOOM image for you guys if you want it. Palette conversion should be fine.

http://i.imgur.com/Egzvi.png

Old Post 09-27-12 08:49 #
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sgt dopey
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Posts: 511
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Before I make my map I have a few questions to ask
What format should the map be in? and Is custom music allowed?

Old Post 09-27-12 09:24 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Boom and yes.

Old Post 09-27-12 09:38 #
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gggmork
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skull in middle looks like SOF not SF.

I made a small map based on time not triggers, haven't beat it yet and it might not be finished:
http://speedy.sh/8WEV2/sworf.wad

Old Post 09-28-12 07:06 #
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j4rio
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here's me trying to beat it with some budget beer hazing my brain

http://filesmelt.com/dl/shith.lmp

Old Post 09-28-12 23:37 #
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gggmork
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I guess its a good sign that you didn't beat it on the first try like one of my previous maps if I remember. Furthest I got was shortly after picking up the plasma gun which is only the 3rd of 6 vile lifts that lower clockwise.

Old Post 09-29-12 01:00 #
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Memfis
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gggmork said:
Furthest I got was shortly after picking up the plasma gun

Hehe, same here. FDA. Pretty cool map but failing is very frustrating because you can't speed up the process. I mean, usually when you're recording a FDA and you die, you can skip some monsters/areas to quickly "restore" your progress, but here you have to go through all that shit again. :)

Old Post 09-29-12 01:26 #
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gggmork
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Good point, timed vs triggered action has pros/cons, another one is less speed competition because everyone gets to the end at about the same time. I just think of it as having to survive constantly generating pseudorandom monster predicaments for x duration of time with almost no annoying route to memorize. You do have to replay the start but pseudorandom monster movement makes it somewhat unique each replay I guess. It might be extremely hard right now, eventually a cyber warps in to help infight. I forgot to put coup starts and whatever so its definitely not the final version.

Old Post 09-29-12 02:09 #
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elmle
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I Just got done adding some finishing touches and I think version 2 is ready:
FourtressV2 (is now on MAP06, couldnt stand the music on 01)
http://www.mediafire.com/?96kpbebm62ate4p

Major changes:
Starting area has a rocket launcher in a new tunnel in the center.
The beginning of the cave got an overhaul.
The rest of the cave has new tunnels and more lavafalls(among other things).
Black tower now has lost souls instead of cacodemons.
Made blue keyroom easier and made red and yellow keyrooms take about 50% less time(red and yellow got a little harder in the process, but still same amount of monsters).
The map actually has a final fight now.

Old Post 09-30-12 11:58 #
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cannonball
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Core Annihilation V.5
http://www.mediafire.com/?r1f3t810vs0ag90
changes mostly are things j4rio suggested;
Moved the archnotron sentry points closer to the walkway in the yellow key room
extra architecture added to the corner rooms, two with large central pillars including the mastermind room. Also changed the NW corner fight so revenants come out of the grey water.
Archviles reduced to 4 for single player, remains at 8 on multiplayer.
A little cell ammo reduced in secret in mastermind room.
Cybers in final room doubled for multiplayer.

Old Post 10-01-12 08:01 #
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gggmork
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everything is done probably but has no music
(still didn't beat but seems doable, fairly far failed demo included)
http://filesmelt.com/dl/sworf222.zip
-made warping monsters more randomized (so pain elemental doesn't always warp to same spot etc)
-i think i made the first lift trigger a bit sooner so less waiting
-made it visually better i guess
-added some dumbitude toward end
-made warping monsters on upper ledges, but that sucked so reverted it

I'm financially fucked right now so have little time to do much else.

Old Post 10-01-12 20:45 #
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Phml
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FDA for Electric Wizard v1. Many, many deaths, doesn't complete.

Trial-and-error map, which I can't say I often like usually, but your puzzles/fights are clever enough to make it entertaining. Great atmosphere. You put a lot of work and thought into everything, and it shows.

I don't have much to suggest. It's extremely punishing without foreknowledge, and you wouldn't be able to do much about this at this point, but making lower difficulties easier could be helpful.

One minor thing: I'd recommend you tag purely detail wall sector linedefs with impassable lines if the sector is >56 pixels high, so the player doesn't wobble up and down next to the walls. I noticed it happening near the switch in the HK room, during the YK fight (sector 427).

Old Post 10-01-12 21:41 #
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j4rio
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^

I recall I could do the beginning once in two tries or so without problems and without preknowledge, and fact is I rather suck at FDA business.
You must be doing something wrong. ;p

Old Post 10-01-12 22:25 #
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Ribbiks
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thanks for the demo phml.

I agree the map can be trial-and-error-esque in that the traps can become overwhelming probably a bit faster than it is fair to expect players to react. For the next slaughter-type map I make I think I'll ensure that the player has more room to maneuver.

Anyways, after watching yours and jario's replays I made a few changes that I think improved the map:

- added a little bit more breathing room to the starting area
- made teleporting-baron room more open, adjusted some traps accordingly
- redistributed plasma ammo throughout the map
- made plasma trap a tiny bit feistier
- megasphere secret now triggers some enemies
- reduced PE/manc count in final room
- HMP and below is now slightly easier than UV

minor changes:
- various detailing / texture-alignment, made decorations impassable as suggested
- moved chaingun so it isn't a mandatory pickup (for some reason that annoyed me)
- made it more obvious what area around ssg triggers the rev/AV trap

Electric Wizard v2

Old Post 10-02-12 03:31 #
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Phml
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I recall I could do the beginning once in two tries or so without problems and without preknowledge, and fact is I rather suck at FDA business.
You must be doing something wrong. ;p


I'm leet and you know it. This was all strategy - getting killed a lot to lull monsters into a false sense of security until I'd be ready to make my move. Or something.

I think it's a video game rule someone *has* to talk to you in RL while you're attempting something difficult. Everyone knows this is not what caused my suckiness, but I'm going to claim it did anyway.

Old Post 10-02-12 13:33 #
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j4rio
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I'm not trying to diss. I meant to imply you can leave wrong feedback if you form your entire opinion solely on one grumpy playthrough. I'm sure I've done the mistake as well.

Few things about wizardry map
- in the second room with chaingun, you can abuse the safe spot near entrance to that room to take out imps and revs without any trouble - I'd add some timed bars to raise there and prevent abusing it once you pick RL for around 30-40 seconds - that way you won't need to adjust triggers for coop
- I can't exactly say I like the idea to have two avs teleport out after picking secret megasphere - I'd nerf it a bit, maybe one archvile would do just fine, possibly coupled with a few low tier monsters, also there is a possibility that you'd enter that secret without plasma gun obtained and with no rockets left, which isn't exactly desirable situation to get to by entering secret, or another option would be to change it to soulsphere and have nothing teleport it
- while I like archviles coupled with imps in the yk tunnel, they can be annoyingly lethal if they revive a baron or two, also an additional cell charge or two wouldn't hurt to be there
- the lift from slime near exit should be set to work faster, it's quite unlikely to survive falling there with monsters already active on lower floor

Old Post 10-02-12 18:29 #
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Phml
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I enjoyed the map. Trust me, I'm nowhere near commited enough to play something I don't like for more than a few minutes, much less post about it.

Perhaps you assumed I was having a bad time because of numerous deaths? Look at it the other way - I restarted and replayed the map a lot; and the linear nature of the map means it had to be *that* much more fun to get me to press Use again and again rather than quit. The glass is definitely half full rather than half empty. ;)

Old Post 10-02-12 22:38 #
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j4rio
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tingsryd - for some reason textures in BFG house appear as homs for me when I pick just about any texture pack. I think nothing besides that comes to mind. Probably the only negative point would be that it's the only danne's contribution for now.

By the way, here's one silly idea - how about adding death exit to every single map? There was exactly zero thought put in possibility of consecutive playing, so why not making final wad the way it was playtested? The only huge cons to it would be all demos desyncing, which is why I'll probably get ToD's finger. However, it could be 'solved' by making additional wad just for dsda which will contain versions of maps that play back already recorded demos. Also, another idea because of which will ToD hate me - how about altering degrassi to work on map 30? There are only few teleporting monsters that can cause trouble with telefragging and the scale of map is humonguous, so if there was one final map to be chosen, it'd vote this, also because placing 'final level concept' as final map after maps of such epic scale would downgrade overall quality of wad so much that it'd feel like mockery.

Old Post 10-04-12 22:20 #
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dannebubinga
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I will fix Tingsryd later I promise.

I'm thinking about making a more hardcore version of the map I made for the DW megaproject. Would that be cool?

There's also 1 map in progress for this project that's on ice atm.

Old Post 10-05-12 20:03 #
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j4rio
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I'm definitely not a fan of reusing material like that but that map was really hawt... so I can't really bring myself to say no. If you could alter it, it'd be awesome.

The war map - skipped

Damned legion - I think this map is rather nice, but a few unpopular decisions really detract points from overall product. I'll just echo what I said some months ago. I'm not sure if archi deliberately rejected most of rather serious points of improvability me and Phml pointed out, or if he didn't understand? I thought he is using some translator, or something, which made me think he probably isn't exactly fluent in english, so if that's by any astronomical chance the reason, somebody please translate this for him, (if he is still around, that is) :

- In the first room those 2 archviles behind invisible walls and archvile jump requiring secret are horrible and need removal. The jump alone would make maxing a nightmare.
- If you remain silent, which isn't that unlikely to happen, demons and zombies in the said room will not teleport in.
- Some items from secrets could simply be placed in playing area rather than remaining hidden. I generally dislike many hidden powerups in difficult maps, as they can cause huge diverzity in the way you can end up playing the map, almost to the point that not finding secrets means difficulty raises up by a notable margin. I'd not leave there more than 2-3 secrets because of that.
- This is probably a huge one - I would make the BFG area accessible before you get to fight those 3 cybers. It would require quite a bit of altering of triggers, but I think it's definitely worth it.
- Make sure that you'd be unable to trigger cybers by activating linedef in front of mancubuses if you rush there quickly. They would infight right away which is, imo, undesirable. I'm not exactly a fan of the order of encounters in this part, but you can't have everything. If you had BFG at this point, which I suggested above, it should be just fine.
- All those sentry HKs in far above in the same room should lower to ground level the moment you activate cybers. The result of making those HKs infight in their current position with cybs is pretty embarassing - cybs just wander around or shoot walls.
- Add a little delay to monsters teleporting in after you pick BFG, especially archviles, maybe 3-5 seconds. It would offer some time to relatively comfortably react. I'd also put additional 1 or 2 cell bulks there.
- Lock player in the room of last battle. As it is now, you'd just shoot rockets from the passage until it gets clean, which is honestly a bore. I tested it a bit and you could comfortably lock player without requirements of altering anything else, just move ammo from passage straight to last room, maybe add a little health also.

I think that's all I had in mind. I really hope this map will go through changes, as I imagine it could be rather excellent with above points implemented.

Old Post 10-05-12 21:42 #
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Phml
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By the way, here's one silly idea - how about adding death exit to every single map? There was exactly zero thought put in possibility of consecutive playing, so why not making final wad the way it was playtested?


If most people are for this, I'll follow suit.

That said, I'm not sure I agree with the idea itself. To me, the point of death exits in infinite BFG maps is precisely to account for players who will play the wad in continuous play rather than warping from level to level, as to not destroy balance completely. While entering a map with weapons, health and ammo is also unbalancing, at least the health and ammo parts are temporary.

I mean, death exits in every level essentially makes continuous play impossible. It doesn't bring anything to the player who's already pistol starting every map, it just removes options for others. While in a way this would be a strong message regarding the intended way to play the wad, it's so strong it's antagonizing.

Best to let people play as they want, and just mention the intended playstyle for best experience in the textfile, like we did last time. It's not as ideal as putting a warning ingame, but I think it's the most sensible way to do things in Boom compatibility.

Alternatively, just rename the wad to Pistolstart 2012. Or fill up the TITLEPIC with the pistol sprite, tiled and repeated all over the place. If people don't get the hint then... :)

Old Post 10-05-12 22:50 #
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