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Ribbiks
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j4rio said:

Phml has a bad habit of overreacting. But I'm honestly not sure what is it this time. I just hope he is fine and nothing unrelated to thread happenned to him.



hmm ok. A strangely abrupt choice on his part that's for sure. A shame, I really liked his submissions.

Old Post 12-17-12 17:54 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Ribbiks said:
I really liked his submissions.

Yeah, we can't do SF2012 without him!

Old Post 12-17-12 17:58 #
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cannonball
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Ribbiks said:


A shame, I really liked his submissions.


This;
I have always liked phml's mapping style even if it's too hard for me, there is a signature style which you can see in these maps all the way back to phmlspd.wad. It would be a shame to lose out on these maps, especially slaughtenstein.

Old Post 12-17-12 18:09 #
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gggmork
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Phml said:
I won't read this thread further

You read it didn't you. Its ok to admit it.
Psst, if you read it while logged out, that doesn't count as reading it *wink wink*
I'm just being like humorous or something, I'm not trollin'. Your corridor map in the doomworld mega project is cool by the way, along with mountain of the doomgod or whatever it was called. Not sure if anyone demoed either yet.

Old Post 12-17-12 18:43 #
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j4rio
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He is a man of his word, yo.

Here's final list, now with 100% less phml maps.
http://filesmelt.com/dl/sdasdasd1.xlsx

Last edited by j4rio on 12-17-12 at 21:36

Old Post 12-17-12 21:30 #
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gggmork
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Wouldn't it be easier to, like, write down the order in the forum, as opposed to using some weird download requiring file?

Old Post 12-17-12 21:43 #
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j4rio
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Meh. I'm not a fan of long-ass cluttering posts that just stretch pages to new dimensions.

Old Post 12-17-12 21:51 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Phml's not interested in group projects right now, so we'll have to go on without him.

According to j4rio's maplist, Power Plant and Ribbik's map30 are still under development. I'd like to start SF2013 on Jan 1st again, but there's no hurry to finish up SF2012 (I assume the two projects will overlap just like 11 and 12 did). Does someone else want to start the SF2013 thread and keep track of all the maps? If not, I'll volunteer again.

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 12-19-12 at 01:17

Old Post 12-18-12 22:26 #
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j4rio
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There may yet be hope. Turns out the whole situation is just a facepalmworthy nonsense. Give it a bit more time before doing serious compiling, focus on things that would be necessary to do for finalizing like getting textures/flats of current maps, but don't put maps together just yet unless you don't mind changing it in certain unpredicatable cases. The last thing to do should be placing maps together into wad.

Old Post 12-18-12 22:34 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Yeah, Phml is more than welcome to submit his maps and I think it would be great if he did. I'll leave the maps alone and start putting the textures/flats together (that'll take a while to do anyway).

Old Post 12-18-12 22:48 #
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Phml
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J4rio made me realise I've been a complete, utterly deluded fool. No sarcasm or anything, this is what happened here. I'd apologise, but there's really no excuse for the amount of abuse I threw his way, and he was incredibly level-headed handling my madness.

Feel free to include (or not to) my maps, make any tweaks, use any version, etc.. I don't think slaughtenstein should be slot 31 in the end, it'd be stupid if being a dickish asshole and taking the ball home was rewarded. My previous tantrum wasn't meant to create drama or get my way, I'm just... Terribly confused, I guess.

Here's a reupload of Startan Arena, as there was some interest in it at one point. The 1802 version was, I think, starting to scale the south part bigger and perhaps adding textures, but it wasn't complete - so the old version (february 14th) might make more sense. Can be included or tweaked, or not, just like everything else.

Might or might not check in, not like my input should be very much relevant. I obviously have some issues I should be concerned about. Again, doing anything with my maps is fine, sorry for being a douchebag about it earlier.

Old Post 12-18-12 23:47 #
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Ribbiks
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yay phml maps back in the set :)


it's not really any of my business but what was the issue anyway? did you want to use the maps for a solo project or something?


Also, been mapping like a fiend recently, map30 probably around 60-70% done, hope to have a version for testing in a week or so.

Old Post 12-19-12 00:02 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Yay, and everything is back to normal in Slaughterland. :)

j4rio's maplist:

code:
01 cannonball Exodus 02 Death Egg Cashews 03 Ribbiks Island of Mystery 04* darkreaver Pure Hate 05 cannonball Fortress of Damnation 06 Phml Trifling 07 Kyka KykaMap07 08 dannebubinga Tingsryd 09 cannonball Core Annihalation 10 cannonball Total Recall 11 Rayzik Warborn 12 Rayzik Unleash the Fire 13 Archi Damned Legion 14 Phml Twobox 15 GRB/j4rio Doomherolandia 16 Ribbiks Electric Wizard 17 TimeOfDeath Split Wide Open 18 cannonball True Grit 19 darkreaver Damnation 20 Bloodite Krypto Last Cup of Sorrow 21 Rayzik Walk With Me in Hell 22 cannonball Royale Arena 23 TimeOfDeath Castle Lava 24 GRB/j4rio Bane's Atrium 25 elmle Fourtress 26 Phml Crimson 27 Armoured Blood Decimal Error 28 Phml Slaughtenstein 29 TimeOfDeath Degrassi 30 Ribbiks ??? 31 gggmork sworf 32 TimeOfDeath Brookhaven Hospital 33 Processingcontrol BoomTown 34 Armoured Blood Hard Contact 35 TimeOfDeath KSP If GoS map finished = replace Pure Hate

Last edited by TimeOfDeath on 12-28-12 at 18:42

Old Post 12-19-12 00:07 #
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j4rio
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Ribbiks said:
it's not really any of my business but what was the issue anyway? did you want to use the maps for a solo project or something?


Nothing of a slightest importance, really. I'm just glad things are back to normal.

Well, to the exact same normal in which I had a dilemma about being absolutely unsure about final map placement. With Phml's blessings, I think I'll just abuse those granted privileges because I'm 100% out of ideas. Sorry gggmork, the idea of using 33-35 mapslots becomes a dire reality again (I hope you are not packing your bags and moving outta thread now! We all still love you and eagerly await a titlepic.). Using two equal wads here would be just butchering off the forced bit of hierarchy that was put together over the time.

Here's first thing that needs to be taken care of - stitch or boxv2 (or boxv1)? Pick your votes whosoever - I and dobugamaru already picked boxv2, Phml's preference is stitch, and the rest of preferences is hazy and unclear.

Also 33-35 will probably require slots exchanging depending on midis - you'll see what I mean when you put final wad together.

Also, I know it won't sound exactly nicely, but there's still editing to be done in existing maps.

Cashews - direly in need of new last area, current one is a joke, and probably a funny one
Damnation - there's a load of blocky lines required to be added or there's boom edge handling getting to work everywhere, also mastermind button is possible to press from below (I think this should be fixed), also it's of rather high difficulty and will probably be in need of changing map slot in the end
Fourtress - this is currently being fixed and will still take a while
Island of Mystery - Map plays entirely fine, but while tinkering with it a bit, I noticed that there is a very obvious fastest and downright uninteresting uvmax route which would make maxing this map a huge luckbased bore. Simply pick all guns at start, make cybs infight and run off to revs/archviles part - when you're done with it and get back, infight should be over and how much stuff died off depends on luck. There really should be something done about this. I'd put stationary baron between blocky lines somewhere close to the entrance outside (far enough to not infight with cybs easily, close enough to make trying to take him out head-on suicidal). I hope this makes some sense.
- Doomland - will be obviously in need of secret exit
- Kykamap07 - will be hopefully revised by Kyka within a month or so
- Last cup of sorrow - some monsters fail to teleport in, I know Krypto is a masochist so I'm not touching this one

Last edited by j4rio on 12-19-12 at 01:43

Old Post 12-19-12 01:20 #
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Ribbiks
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I think stitch would be a good choice if it was placed early in the wad. For it's current position (14), I think box v2 might be more appropriate.

Interpet that 'vote' however you wish :p



j4rio said:

Island of Mystery - Map plays entirely fine, but while tinkering with it a bit, I noticed that there is a very obvious fastest and downright uninteresting uvmax route which would make maxing this map a huge luckbased bore. Simply pick all guns at start, make cybs infight and run off to revs/archviles part - when you're done with it and get back, infight should be over and how much stuff died off depends on luck. There really should be something done about this. I'd put stationary baron between blocky lines somewhere close to the entrance outside (far enough to not infight with cybs easily, close enough to make trying to take him out head-on suicidal). I hope this makes some sense.



I think that's a good idea. For some reason I was clinging on to the idea of allowing that secondary route (ie. being able to do the outside AV part at beginning, or later). But the entire thing might just be smoother if I take away that option.

Last edited by Ribbiks on 12-19-12 at 01:48

Old Post 12-19-12 01:40 #
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dobu gabu maru
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To be fair, if we've got all slots filled now thanks to phml's return, I'd rather work on editing existing maps with known problems than expanding GoS's map. I still really like the map, but no sudden bursts of inspiration have struck me and I'm unsure of when that'll be finished. So instead I'd like to take on adding the bonus exit to Doomlandia (might combine it with a section of Red Death since I liked that map), and once I get around to it, I can edit Damnation unless darkreaver is going to do a drop-off of the update.

I might return to it sooner or later

Old Post 12-19-12 08:33 #
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j4rio
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Sounds good, at least a bit less work for me :)

Old Post 12-19-12 13:00 #
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gggmork
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Maybe instead of slaughterfest, next time it could be "hard" maps where the main weapon is infighting or you're only allowed guns dropped by enemies or something. Since everyone kind of defined and bottlenecked "slaughterfest" into a specific type of map that has tons of monsters and a bfg or whatever.

I'll probably only play the 33+ maps in zdoom by the way, unless recording a demo, because you have to use -warp bla bla from the command line to get there in prboom. But all well, if other people don't mind having their boom-tested maps played in zdoom.

It was easier to type the titlepic than actually make it.

Also it seems phml wanted his map in xx position (not sure) whereas j4rio wanted it in xx position (not sure). Well both are valid opposing preferences.. maybe more weight to phml's preference since its his map. Or maybe a neutral third party could vote to decide. Or flip a coin or something fair. Whatever.

Last edited by gggmork on 12-19-12 at 19:55

Old Post 12-19-12 16:23 #
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j4rio
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I wouldn't mind having every choice to be implemented go through voting, but usually the most received votes were from 1-2 people. Most of things brought up probably don't matter enough to instigate some serious voting, or something.

Old Post 12-19-12 16:30 #
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gggmork
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There's only (one?) map that (may or may not) have a dispute regarding position though so only one needed instance of dispute resolution.

Old Post 12-19-12 16:48 #
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j4rio
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Well there is still this -


j4rio said:


Here's first thing that needs to be taken care of - stitch or boxv2 (or boxv1)? Pick your votes whosoever




Then there is slaughtenmap placement, then there is "to place maps to 33-35 or not" then there is whether I should be the one to have a final word on maplist. Usually nothing considerable as dispute happenned when I brought something up. Probably because there is nobody feeling entitled to answer, or whatever. I'll just leave it like this - if there is anybody absolutely against handling of his/her own maps in ways they are being handled like, speak up (I think this is fair because authors should have the final word about their maps rather than somebody else). That is - if AB/ToD/PC are against their maps being in 33-35, the possibility of them remaining there is absolutely zero. If Phml decides to change his mind and prefer slaughtenstein at thirtyfirst mapslot, speak up and it will be immediately reverted. Same thing about boxv2 currently being in instead of stitch. I feel that it's the most fair this way.

Old Post 12-19-12 17:13 #
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gggmork
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I found "twobox" on page 22 if that's what you're talking about. I haven't played either yet and chances are they require a texture pack I don't want to look for/hassle with. If boxv1/v2 and stitch are all his maps, I guess my "vote" is that it should be up to him which ones to include or not. Or include all, depending on how many beyond 33 are possible. I actually don't care much about any issue myself. I only have 1 not too spectacular map contributed anyway.

Old Post 12-19-12 18:24 #
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j4rio
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They are all versions of the same map. Requires sftx.

I'm currently following this statement by Phml on the matter, which I'm quite inclined to believe will not change due to reasons:


Phml said:

Feel free to include (or not to) my maps, make any tweaks, use any version, etc..



But if it will, then there would be altering taking place.

Last edited by j4rio on 12-19-12 at 19:03

Old Post 12-19-12 18:53 #
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TimeOfDeath
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I think Phml would like map31 for Slaughtenstein considering it's premise. I don't think map# is a big deal for the other maps, except Kykamap07 and Ribbiks map30, but Slaughtenstein is a remake/inspired by SF31, and map31 spot is important to him.

For Boxv2/Stitch/Boxv1, I think it should be whatever Phml wants to use. I don't think it's egotistical for an author to want to use one map over the other, since it's their map. I was planning on putting the extra maps that aren't in the main wad into a separate wad called ExtraMaps or something, if people are cool with that?

I don't care about KSP being in map35 spot. The beginning is the same room getting bigger 16 times, so most people will probably be like "this is ghey" and quit the map anyway. It's better if the map is in 35 spot.

Allowing "hard" maps instead of traditional slaughter maps would be cool. What about allowing hard maps and slaughter maps in the same wad?

Old Post 12-19-12 19:08 #
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j4rio
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TimeOfDeath said:
I think Phml would like map31 for Slaughtenstein considering it's premise. I don't think map# is a big deal for the other maps, except Kykamap07 and Ribbiks map30, but Slaughtenstein is a remake/inspired by SF31, and map31 spot is important to him.



No, it's not a big deal at all. I just don't know where to put mork's map then because it just doesn't fit from my point of view with anything better than it does along with hospital. Somebody else needs to spark me with an idea because I see no clear solution here.

After conversation with Phml I'm entirely persuaded that it really doesn't matter to him, especially not to an extent as enormous as withdrawing all contributions (again...) .


TimeOfDeath said:
For Boxv2/Stitch/Boxv1, I think it should be whatever Phml wants to use. I don't think it's egotistical for an author to want to use one map over the other, since it's their map. I was planning on putting the extra maps that aren't in the main wad into a separate wad called ExtraMaps or something, if people are cool with that?



Again, I'm 100% sure it's safe following last Phml's statement that he is fine with whatever ends up in wad. Just... trust me. If not, he wouldn't have said so. And if it somehow really isn't fine, I'd like to hear it from him now. Chances are he might not even be checking thread anymore anyway...

The most democratic way to settle it now would be voting one of the three versions by all contributors/testers/whosoever. I'm standing by this, because in case there is whole mapping done, there is another thing that I would prefer pure hate to remain in final wad over stitch (which is not the case with boxv2 version). There's the unfortunate aspect of quality control that gets put on me if I am to choose maplist like that and thus the whole situation would just grow in absurdness which probably wouldn't get solved whatsoever. Therefore I would like to evade the necessity of having to do serious quality control and just throw ideas to solve it the friendliest possible way from my end.

So I stand by what I said - current listing is fine and harmless and is unnecessary to adjust unless I hear a new word from map authors themselves.

Yeah, feel free to put all leftover maps to additional wad. I was thinking this would be possible to solve easily more along the lines of just placing all maps into folder without putting them all inside a single wad. Because that would probably require at least a little bit thinking to put into sorting, which I personally find rather pointless.



TimeOfDeath said:
Allowing "hard" maps instead of traditional slaughter maps would be cool. What about allowing hard maps and slaughter maps in the same wad?


There wasn't problem with that since the start of sf. There is already a thin ice barrier between those anyway, but in the end it would cause clashing when trying to sort them. So my answer is - I don't know.

Old Post 12-19-12 19:59 #
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gggmork
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TimeOfDeath said:
What about allowing hard maps and slaughter maps in the same wad?


Sounds good to me; more creative freedom/variety, less emphasis on 2 hour ginormous bfg-fests, though those are fine too. Just allows the niche to be wider/not so bottlenecked.

I play maps on an individual basis, like the ultimate map order/arrangement means nothing to me (aside from quirks like 7/30/33+) because I'll just idclev and pistol start any individual map and consider it as an isolated map on its own. Actually having the maps conveniently uploaded to idgames is the only real benefit of participating in a group project since I don't want to hassle with that ftp or whatever to upload there for now. Otherwise everyone could just upload maps individually with complete control over everything, not having to fit any particular theme/restrictions/etc of a particular group project and immune from any map culling or preferences imposed by others. Actually another benefit is just having one file to idclev around in, easy to just change the -warp number to record on a different map etc. Uh, yeah.

I think just screw the reviewers and forget about "quality control". That usually just means "dumb it down for the masses" or something anyway. Its merely a bunch of individual's maps thrown into a megawad, which is why something random like alphabetical order would be fine with me- that's just my opinion though. But whatever the order ends up is fine with me, I'm not that concerned especially since I have minimal map contributions. I guess I just prefer mine not to be in 33+ (or 30 with telefragging).

Last edited by gggmork on 12-19-12 at 20:28

Old Post 12-19-12 20:00 #
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cannonball
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Hard maps are fine, memfis's map last year wasn't really a slaughter map, just a hard map with a modest monster counter. I liked that level and levels like that are just as welcome as mass bfg fests.
Of course if you go too far that way we might as well be calling the wad for next year hell revealed 3 or something like that :P

Old Post 12-19-12 20:05 #
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j4rio
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gggmork said:


I think just screw the reviewers and forget about "quality control". That usually just means "dumb it down for the masses" or something anyway. Its merely a bunch of individual's maps thrown into a megawad, which is why something random like alphabetical order would be fine with me- that's just my opinion though. But whatever the order ends up is fine with me, I'm not that concerned especially since I have minimal map contributions. I guess I just prefer mine not to be in 33+ (or 30 with telefragging).



I wouldn't call it dumbing. It's far from that. Dumbing would be dumb. It's really just sorting with the intention to appeal to those who appreciate the niche.

Sorting alphabetically is like not sorting at all, or just pretending to sort while actually doing a purposeful mess. It's unexpected, probably leaves a terrible impression and may even result in your map not being played through just because of ignoring petty aesthetics of arrangement. Think of it like trying to sell a product - you make up a few "lies" about it to get the payment you receive for selling it. Except this time the payment is potential enjoyment of players rather than money.

Old Post 12-19-12 21:25 #
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j4rio
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Here's fourtress with a truckload of edits and bugfixes (me&cb).

http://filesmelt.com/dl/FourtressV3.wad

Old Post 12-22-12 17:33 #
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Ribbiks
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I finally finished my submission for map30, Merry Christmas!

Download: Anathema v.1

No difficulty settings yet, requires cc4-tex.


I spent way too much time on this map, and it is freakin ginormous. There's only ~7k monsters or so, but they're thrown at you only a couple hundred at a time so it takes awhile, a casual UV-max took me about an hour and 45 minutes, and a dozen or so deaths (played with saves).

I'm slightly concerned that some of the rooms are a bit too difficult given the length of the map (the starting room and the YK room can be a bit rough), but there is usually always a relatively safe and reliable way to approach each encounter. Health/ammo is pretty tightly balanced, and is designed so that you can make a few mistakes and not be shit out of luck.

Because it's map30 there are pretty much no teleport traps, so prepare for some serious action19 abuse. Also the map is slightly nonlinear, a central hub connects a wing for each key, as well as the final area. the easiest order imo is to go YK->RK->BK, but you can do it any way you want really.

So anyways yeah give it a try, and definitely let me know if you guys think anything can be improved, or if you find any bugs. Hopefully the map is worthy of slot 30.

Old Post 12-25-12 22:09 #
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