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Archy
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fiend-o-hell said:
Isn't Doom2+ for all intents and purpose a vanilla clone with some extended limits? From the looks of it, its having trouble accepting a new patch. In any case I'm sorry to say its an outdated port. I designed the map with PrBoom+ (a descendant of Doom+) using "Vanilla Doom's engine principles" (aka -complevel 2).


What "patch" are you referring to? If it's a LUMP in the WAD, tell me it's name and I'll look into it. The reason I'm pushing for Doom2+ compatibility is that I don't want WADs to have unnecessary errors. By all means, if the removal of the "error" would cause some negativity or loss in the WAD it's self, it should not be forced to become Doom2+ compatible.

I've played many WADs that could easily be Doom2+ compatible if they just changed one thing that doesn't even affect the level. I wish I knew more about WAD editing, because most of these errors are probably easy to fix, and I'd fix them if I could. Sadly though, I lack even basic WAD editing knowledge (let alone skills).

By creating a WAD without unnecessary errors, a wider group of people can play it (as more ports can play it) and this also prevents other errors related to that error from occurring.

Scythe 2 is a great example of a -complevel 2 WAD that goes far beyond the limits of Vanilla Doom yet works just fine in Doom2+ without any sacrifices made to the WAD. Plutonia 2 is a great example of a -complevel 4 (the Final Doom equivalent of 2) WAD that was designed to also be Vanilla compatible (Vanilla Final Doom has the limits removed, so it's like Doom2+ [correct me if I'm wrong]) but wasn't fully because of a few errors that could have easily been prevented. One of those errors was that the midi music doesn't work - one of the most lazy errors ever, and totally unnecessary.

Another reason I'm pushing for Doom2+ compatibility is that it would make my anti-spechits overflow test almost fool proof. Spechits Overflow can cause recorded demos to desynch, and that would mean that speedrunners would not be interested in this WAD. (Testing for demo desynching situation in PrBoom would be more difficult because of the way PrBoom emulates spechits overflows.) As a speedrunner my self, I find that it is most important that we do every thing we can (without sacrificing any quality to the WAD) to ensure that spechits overflows have a near zero chance of occurring and that this WAD is playable for as many port users as possible.

Again, if the removal of the error is of any sacrifice to the WAD it's self, then it should not be removed. But if it can be removed without any sacrifices to the features of the WAD, then it is an absolute must that it is removed.

PS. I'll try to come up with a better way of testing these WADs than Doom2+, as it is not something many WAD makers use and thus they can't test it them selves. I'll try to see if I can get a Windows port of Doom2+ that's identical to the real thing (Chocolate+ I guess? LOL).

Old Post 06-30-12 07:42 #
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fiend-o-hell
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Appreciate the comments.

1-I agree lost souls could use a trim
2-fixed ugly floors
http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/2203/rck1.png
3-Muncubi area- idea there was to force you into the imp horde BFGing as you go along. There are plenty of cells and health packs in that area. Munc respawn only on UV. I took them out on lower skill settings.
4-The pit- i think ill leave it the way it is since I didn't really wanna spend to much time on it.
5-pinky platform- should raise whenever you approach SSG. Let me know if you keep having problems with this.

I included a duplicate DOOM2 texture and patch file along with the new sky patch. I thought maybe DOOM+ was having trouble with it so I took those files out. Needless to say the map still didn't boot but at least the error was gone.

You make a great point about making maps that are universal friendly. My biggest gripe with Doom+ though is that its a bastard to use with DB2 auto loader or ZDL. I have to use and external batch script or something making it harder for me to test my maps. That dysync issue is a major concern and one i'm looking into for my other PANO map.

Old Post 06-30-12 22:34 #
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dobu gabu maru
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Hey, if no one is interested in doing MAP30, I'd be willing to take up that spot. I don't have any finished maps (only a few WIPs), but I hope to get some up soon. I'd love to try my best to make a damn good IOS fight.

Old Post 06-30-12 23:59 #
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Archy
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Now that we're talking about map 30 again, let me bring this up... again:

Archy said:
Map 30 should be Hadephobia, and make it really hellish but if you use the Icon of sin, make it an awesome Icon of Sin.
Example:
Awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbYmhTkeFb4

Not Awesome:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NilocnB-jb0

Old Post 07-01-12 04:57 #
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fiend-o-hell
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dobugabumaru said:
Hey, if no one is interested in doing MAP30, I'd be willing to take up that spot. I don't have any finished maps (only a few WIPs), but I hope to get some up soon. I'd love to try my best to make a damn good IOS fight.


Yes of course! Hadephobia (MAP30) is all yours if you can make it awesome!

Old Post 07-01-12 06:11 #
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dobu gabu maru
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Oh trust me, I have no intention of doing an elevator based IOS fight, since those border the line between boring and frustrating most of the time. I was thinking something more similar to Object 34, although I might add my own spin to it.

Old Post 07-01-12 09:00 #
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fiend-o-hell
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So your gonna make it supper huge and confusing with an IOS at the end of it to fight? I'm all for it if you can manage to make it within a decent time frame (4-6mo).

Old Post 07-02-12 00:46 #
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fiend-o-hell
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I think its high time I announce a deadline for submitting a map to this project! I'm shooting for an October final release of Panophobia, so how does a late August submission sound to everybody? That way we have September free for any edits and/or touch-ups!

If it doesn't come out to be the full 32 set map count, ill let it slide.

Old Post 07-07-12 06:03 #
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BloodyAcid
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Deal. I'll shoot for August 30.

Old Post 07-07-12 06:19 #
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fiend-o-hell
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Well if there are no objections, August 30 it is!

Old Post 07-07-12 19:59 #
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dobu gabu maru
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That might be a bit of a tight deadline for me since I'm working on 3 other levels, but I'll try and shoot for the 30th. All else fails, I'll just downscale my level to make the deadline.

Old Post 07-08-12 07:11 #
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dobu gabu maru
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Sorry for the double post, but since the deadline is approaching soon, I have to admit that I won't be able to make it. Due to some mapper's block and losing the last 4 hours I worked on it, I can already tell that 15 days won't be enough to have it ready for playtesting.

I'd prefer to keep working on it, but I just can't get this ready in time.

Old Post 08-16-12 10:02 #
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ella guro
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this whole project is looking really cool from what i've seen of it. can't wait to see the finished wad!

Old Post 08-16-12 11:16 #
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PRIMEVAL
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This will be a little too tight of a deadline for me. I got work, school coming up, and a lot of musical projects to work on. Perhaps I can give up my map to someone to finish / make it better?

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Old Post 08-16-12 16:51 #
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fiend-o-hell
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I really don't want to push the deadline back for this, so...

dobugabumaru, don't stress. Just focus on fun and simple over detail and scale.

PRIMEVAL, if you really can't finish it, send me what you got and I'll finish it for you.

Old Post 08-17-12 01:31 #
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MajorRawne
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Fiend, my apologies for not working on this.

Between work and other commitments, my Doom mapping has been pushed to the back burner; the maps are too epic in scale and I was having more frustration than fun making them, mostly due to my perfectionist streak.

I have a lot of writing commitments that I also put off (for several years!) including my Marneus Calgar's Barmy Army stuff where people from 4 different websites have been waiting 2 years for the next instalment.

Here is what I've done so far with Temple of Forgotten Gods (Hydrophobia). The remaining maps are in varying states of completion.

NOTE: Map is generally playable but cannot be completed. Some teleporters have lost their tags and there's a secret in the top left corner of the start area which does not have a teleporter to take you there. Generally I am over the moon with how this map is going and could finish this within the week with some feedback.

NOTE 2: I tried raising the lit sectors by 1 so the candlelight didn't reflect from the ceilings. This works in one of my other maps but not this one - just one of many stupid fecking problems that nearly put me off mapping altogether.

http://www.mediafire.com/?vbvwibv3hdqb8xq

I am trying to catch up with all my commitments and am going to try to spend one day writing, the next on Doom, etc, until everything is done!

EDIT: Can someone send me a grey sky texture, something really gloomy?

EDIT 2: Just noticed the deadline - a crying shame, I am gutted I didnt work enough on these maps, but I guess you can't leave it work in progress forever.

EDIT 3 (ffs): Amazing what a kick up the arse can do for your motivation. I've revised the teleporters, added more monsters and LOTS of ammo, made you get the super shotty much sooner, added some secrets and I've started work on the immense final area which I am now calling the Silver Road. (It's white.)

Last edited by MajorRawne on 08-22-12 at 16:35

Old Post 08-21-12 19:04 #
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MajorRawne
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New screenies of the map "Temple of Forgotten Gods":

Map as of last week:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/nopoet406/rawnwatr15.jpg

Map as of yesterday:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/nopoet406/rawnwatr20.jpg

Map as of today:

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/nopoet406/rawnwatr21.jpg

I cannot TELL you how many tweaks and modifications have gone into what looks like a modest increase

Old Post 08-23-12 17:49 #
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fiend-o-hell
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Keep at it Major. We have one more week, so I advice you take some of the following drastic actions:
1. Cut your levels down
2. Stop building and just add the levels goals (ie triggers, monsters, items)
3. Submit some level into me so we can split the load.

Up to you on what you want to do.

Just as a general statement to all the mappers involved, what I'm looking for are not bug free, perfect maps... just maps that have clear goals and that are passable at this point.

We will be using next month to test and hopefully perfect these maps as much as possible, with each Sunday being the day revisions are submitted and perhaps the end of Monday or Tuesday to get play tester feedback in.

Its gonna require stepped-up commitment from the mappers involved here because I want to be officially done with this project on Sunday September 30th.

To keep things simple, I will continue to update maps on the first post of this thread.

Old Post 08-24-12 01:44 #
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MajorRawne
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No problems, the hydrophobia map is nearly done but it needs polishing and playtesting; at the moment it's as hard as fook and people may find the layout complicated. Hopefully will be submitting this today but if not, at the weekend.

EDIT: I WILL BE RELIANT ON PLAYTESTER FEEDBACK! These are my first maps that I've produced without collaborating with someone!

Old Post 08-24-12 15:36 #
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MajorRawne
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Here's the beta version of Temple of Forgotten Gods (Aquaphobia). The filename is rawnwatr.wad. This version replaces the previous wad I uploaded. Note there is supposed to be custom music so let me know when you want it, I don't know how to add this using DoomBuilder.

http://www.mediafire.com/?fbz3jy3vvq2pqaw

Note that the final Hell Knight teleport ambush does not work properly (on the large platform facing the inverted cross). Also, at present, once you reach the "silver road" (crumbling path) I think I forgot to add a way back into the building you just left.

Old Post 08-24-12 17:37 #
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fiend-o-hell
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I'll take a look at them by the end of tonight and give you my 2cents after ; ) .

Old Post 08-25-12 02:22 #
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fiend-o-hell
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Ok, got a chance to to look at Hydrophobia Major...

So quicky observations
-----------------------
+You met my acceptance criteria. There was a start, some mid level goals, and an exit. Yay!
+The environment is certainly quirky and unique which fits well with this projects style.
-The experience is pretty bland overall. I got a sense that you wanted to make a exploration map, but at the same time I just follow a "look-ahead only" path.
-puzzles and traps could be more intricate.
-I would like to see a little bit more detail on the level.

For now I'll overlook all the HOMs and visual glitches and even my last comment about detail. For the next revision, try rearranging areas around so that they fork from one another that way there are more exploration options available to the player. Perhaps arrange these areas more closely around that giant starting pool which acts as your central hub.

Long story short, level design needs some work before reaching its final state Major.

If you want to leave as-is, allow it to run through the ol' fiend'o'matic for touch-ups! Your choice! I know you got other maps for this project in the works, so its better you finish those up too.

Old Post 08-25-12 06:22 #
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MajorRawne
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Thanks for the feedback. I did go for the exploration theme but I then buggered up straight away by having the areas linked by teleporter. There was a clash of ideas, as I wanted each area to be its own separate nightmare to get through. I screwed myself with the traps by designing each area before adding the monsters rather than designing them around fights. The start area is intentionally wide open to give a bleak, stranded-at-sea feel.

For the moment I'm going to try to get other maps finished, perhaps one or two depending how many I can get through, then run through them all in sequence tweaking things.

If you let me know which areas are weak and/or need more detail, that would be a big help.

EDIT: I'm hoping to have a very rough version of Nightmare In Spiderland submitted within 3-5 days. I'm concentrating on getting the basic elements in place then I can spend the next few weeks fine tuning them with feeback from playtesters.

EDIT 2: Emailed you, Fiend.

Last edited by MajorRawne on 08-26-12 at 12:49

Old Post 08-25-12 14:51 #
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fiend-o-hell
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My bad everybody, I just realized there are 31 days in August and it lands on Friday. doh! Obviously Friday night makes it easier on everyone to submit a map. I'm not a slave driver like that...

In a related matter, I have revised front post with an important dates section and some more info for those interested.

Also I have revised our maplist a bit too. I took out the status descriptions and started using real names for the maps instead of the phobia type.

Last edited by fiend-o-hell on 08-26-12 at 17:11

Old Post 08-26-12 16:37 #
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MajorRawne
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Is anybody else actually working on this?

Progress update:

* Temple of Forgotten Gods

- A number of edits to the final area which don't currently stand out much due to the vastness of the area. This bit is turning into a time sink.

- Enabled the player to teleport back into the temple area from the Silver Road.

- Improved the inter-connectivity between the start area and the cave area which you teleport into: made the teleport lines at the altar (where you leave the starting area) much longer, turned the teleport destination into a teleporter which brings you back to the start area.

- Added much more ammo and more health.

- Fixed some HOMs.

- Fixed the Hell Knight ambush in the final area.

- Removed incorrectly tagged secret sectors.

* Nightmare in Spiderland
NOTE: Doom Builder 2 is now having node builder errors whenever I save this map


- Added huge numbers of monsters to be deployed through teleporter traps - these traps can be very nasty but are not cheap.

- Added significant detailing to the miles of blank walls.

- Significantly improved the inter-connectivity between regions of the map, turning this back into an exploration map with lots of optional fights and items. (Player is not forced to obtain 100% anything, must deliberately seek it out.)

- Fixed "The Sink" area HOMS and slime trails.

- Added the monsters you'd expect from a map 07 but am not currently planning to use the map-specific tags (too uninspiring, derivative, boring and cliched: go and play Dead Simple if you want to play Dead Simple).

- Extended The Road To Heaven area with an aircraft landing zone; fixed the blast crater textures which defaulted to a weird random texture that does not even appear in the map.

- Huge detailing increase in the research outpost; added a blue key and blue doors inside the outpost.

- Added "The Devil's Elbow" location on map ("TDE" on the screenshots was a reminder to myself to add this area).

Old Post 08-27-12 17:45 #
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Death Egg
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Oh, I forgot about this.

I have like a 5% finished MAP14 sitting on my hard drive. I guess I could try working on it, but I have doubts I'd make it in the deadline. (I might be able to though, maybe)

Old Post 08-28-12 01:44 #
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fiend-o-hell
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Your no kind of true dude if you don't finish it TrueDude...

@MajorRawne: Yes keep them updates a'coming. Also, feel free to either post or send me the maps and I'll try to give you some feedback as soon as I can.

Old Post 08-28-12 02:04 #
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MajorRawne
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Won't be able to get anything done tomorrow and didn't have much chance today so when I submit Nightmare in Spiderland, there will be an exit and player starts but the map won't be "playable" as some of the elements are not yet in place. You can still run around killing things and exploring, you'll just find the exit plonked in the middle of the map.

Notes about my other maps:

The House That Fear Built:
This map mainly needs retexturing with some areas to be rebuilt. That shouldn't take more than a couple of days' serious labour so you can say this one is 75% done. NOTE This is based off an old Ultimate Doom map called Fear by Patrick Hipps. I CANNOT UPLOAD THIS MAP YET AS I AM HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE LAPTOP THAT CONTAINS THE WAD FILE.


The Meat Train:
This map was not built by me; it was given to me by BloodyAcid and NOT Memphis who I think I incorrectly credited somewhere. This map is complete and playable as-is, and is linked to in the first post of this thread (which needs BloodyAcid crediting as co-author). I will be re-texturing the map and removing the Revenant/BFG spam, as well as adding a large start area which should be finished relatively quickly. Therefore I will also call this map 75% done.

Nightmare in Spiderland
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/nopoet406/rawnspdr21.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/nopoet406/rawnspdr22.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q255/nopoet406/rawnspdr23.jpg

Last edited by MajorRawne on 08-28-12 at 21:16

Old Post 08-28-12 21:11 #
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Death Egg
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Here's a nowhere near complete but possibly completable beta. (Maybe with god mode on anyways)

I'd say the map itself is about 75% complete, the architecture a little less, and the monster/item placement is about 4% complete. No name yet, either.

Old Post 08-29-12 04:27 #
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@TrueDude: Awesome entry that packing great potential! Keep it up TrueDude. I especially like the use of your gore and blood textures. The damaging blood is an ever-present nuisance which adds a layer of complexity to the level. Surprisingly difficult for such a low monster count. Only complaint I have so far are that some of the fights are a bit to cramped.

@MajorRawne: Sounds good Major!

Last edited by fiend-o-hell on 08-29-12 at 06:06

Old Post 08-29-12 06:00 #
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