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MajorRawne
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I'm going to provisionally say that Fear of the Past won't be ready for the Hallowe'en release, and there is no point giving it to someone else as there is too much work to do. The map would be better as a generic, ruined base for some other project.

As for fear of Water and Panophobia, they are pretty much done, just need final tweaking. I am going to begin serious reconstruction of the Spider map as that has become something of an albatross for me and I need to get it finished.

My real life commitments have started taking over and I am getting edgy to have this project done with!

Old Post 10-17-12 21:02 #
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dobu gabu maru
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MajorRawne said:
I'm going to provisionally say that Fear of the Past won't be ready for the Hallowe'en release, and there is no point giving it to someone else as there is too much work to do. The map would be better as a generic, ruined base for some other project.


A problem with removing any map from the project is that we won't get to use the sky texture for the last two levels (MAP12 & 13), which is a shame since it's very neat and adds a huge amount of atmosphere to those two levels (Vertigo Limit & The Sigil). Hell, it's the reason why I actually started the new level for this, was so that we wouldn't be losing any maps.

Please reconsider, or at least for someone reading this, please think about contributing a VERY small map. It's not ultimately necessary, and good, quality maps are definitely in a higher need than who gets what sky textures, but I still am gunning for 13 maps total (not counting Cacophobia since it's a bonus level).

Also, fiend, lemme know when you're posting the compilation and I'll shoot my new level your way. I originally planned it to be MAP03, but it's actually pretty difficult, so we still have some planning to do regarding map order. I'm trying to make it easier, but since it's an arena/slaughter-type map, it's a very thin line between challenging and just plain old repetitive/boring.

Old Post 10-18-12 02:38 #
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MajorRawne
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Okay, here's a solution.

I step up the original plan and cut vast swathes out of map 2 (fear of the past). The "fear of the past" idea relates to the original map being from the 1994 era - possibly inviting criticism, but what the hell. I can still get Ultimate Doom references in there too.

I would make it more like High Voltage, the second map from HR2 which is a techbase isolated by the sea, with zombie hordes to mow down. Yes, I realise we are starting to see handgunner spam in modern wads but they are very fun to kill.

There may be comments about how maps 1, 2 and 7 (panophobia, fear of the past and arachnophobia) are similar thematically. I am essentially speedmapping from here on so I'll have to take those comments on the chin.

EDIT: I've got the fear for map 2! What a bastard to find a name for it. It's Mnemophobia, fear of memories.

Map 01: "Welcome to Hell" (panophobia)
Map 02: "The House That Fear Built" (mnemophobia)
Map 07: "Nightmare in Spiderland" (arachnophobia)
Map xx: "Temple of Forgotten Gods" (aquaphobia)

Old Post 10-18-12 18:45 #
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MajorRawne
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Map 02, Mnemophobia, is coming along nicely. There are too many modifications to list so here's a sample:

* Recreated map 01 exit area as map 02's start area

* Deleted entire indoor sections of the map (crappy oldschool maze areas)

* Created consistent visual themes throughout the map (eg blue markings above important doors)

* Added outer courtyard with a large and very nasty battle

* Added storage room with nasty trap and RL

* Added a courtyard base area with unpleasant blue key trap

Tomorrow, I'll be adding tributes to Ultimate Doom and Hell Revealed. Some subtle tributes already in this map:

* Fistula (Ultimate Doom) - outdoor base area, not the central lift
* Computer Station (Ultimate Doom)
* The Focus (Doom 2)
* Maps 02 and 03 (Hell Revealed 2)

The map is not playable but will be uploaded for a walkthrough over the next couple of days, I need to know if the tribute areas are recognisable

Old Post 10-20-12 21:45 #
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MajorRawne
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Here's the most up to date version of map 02, The House That Fear Built, along with the midi. NOTE THIS IS NOT FINISHED AND IS NOT BEATABLE FROM SCRATCH - there is still work to be done. It's just for a look around.

The song is Butterflies and Hurricanes by Muse.

http://www.mediafire.com/?i37t0ivb2...57ik4nudee8g883

Old Post 10-21-12 15:19 #
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dobu gabu maru
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It's too late to provide this kind of feedback, but it would've personally been better if you probably stuck to something like only Ultimate Doom for that map, as the mismatch of rooms and themes make the level feel very disjointed. There were small moments where I recognize an id design, but for the most part, it just feels like a frankenstein's monster of ideas.

Old Post 10-21-12 18:37 #
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MajorRawne
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This is the map I was going to scrap as I was not happy with how it was going. Bear in mind there are a few areas which I haven't even touched yet as it's a re-working of an old map by someone else, and other areas have only been slightly modified.

I feel the part of the map that is "finished" plays quite well, albeit very difficult. The player start you probably tested from is not going to be the actual starting point.

What is the basic problem with the map? Does it look bad due to poor design, is it the choice of textures, does the gameplay not flow? I won't continue to work on the map if it's shite or can't be salvaged, there's no more time.

EDIT: There is still time for me to re-texture certain areas, remove areas that don't fit, and change the phobia from mnemophobia to counterphobia - which is when a phobic actually puts themselves into situations they fear. Then this map could keep its themes with a unified texture set and represent fear of pain (the section where you think there are no medikits), fear of the past (the odd id-inspired touch) and fear of the dark (by introducing light switches to more of the map, and the base is mostly in darkness). This follows on from map 01 which also features several different fears.

Last edited by MajorRawne on 10-21-12 at 19:34

Old Post 10-21-12 19:22 #
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dobu gabu maru
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I didn't test it from a gameplay perspective as I don't like to playtest unfinished maps. It's just the general layout/architecture/texture use that winds up being confusing. I can't really get more specific than that other than going room by room, which I don't want to do.

I'd say wait to hear feedback from fiend before deciding what you want to do with the map (scrap or refine). Also, it might help to have a playable section of it, as gameplay can make up for visuals a lot of the time.

Old Post 10-21-12 20:21 #
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MajorRawne
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I hear what you're saying but I think it's time to call it quits. This project has been a bit too much for me, I have exceeded my reach by a very long way. I could finish the remaining maps in time, but it seems that the horrendous amount of work is not producing worthwhile results.

I'll finish tweaking the Panophobia map (map 01) and the Aquaphobia map and will upload the final versions in case anyone wants to make any last-minute tweaks. I am quite happy with these maps and feel they will stand up to the shitstorm that will inevitably come in the /Newstuff.

Maybe if there's an update to the wad in a few weeks or months I will get the Mnemophobia and Arachnophobia maps done... but I've got a hell of a lot to learn before then.

My apologies for the last-minute disappointment.

Old Post 10-21-12 21:16 #
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fiend-o-hell
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I will be posting a new compilation up by the end of tonight! To all the authors involved, please provide an updated map if you have one. @Dobug, send me that new map you were working on! Here is a list of the changes I plan to implement:

Planned changes for Panophobia Alpha v2
-new map order
-complete music inclusion
-updated sky1
-have map opening areas for each of the maps that'll act as ammo sinks and introduce the phobia.
-individual map updates including my maps (Vertigo & Whispers) and my collab with PRIMEVAL Blood Urge. I'll have to look up past posts to get a better idea of which maps were actually updated.
-Implement an experimental idea. Should not affect anybody...
-Update the readme; start including author notes, audio credits, etc.
-2 new maps; Welcome to Fear (which ill try to patch a little) and Dobugs new map.

Below I have posted a penultimate map list based upon what you guys have been posting and what I think it should be. If you look closely, I tried to put levels with similar themes and characteristics (ie wide open spaces, blood, gore ) together as much as possible.

FoH MAP LIST 10.21.2012
MAP01 Welcome to Fear (Panophobia) by MajorRawne
MAP02 Spellbound (Alone) by PabloD
MAP03 Spider Island (Spider) by MajorRawne
MAP04 Pain Consumes (Pain) by Death Egg
MAP05 Blood Urge (Blood) by PRIMEVAL & FoH
MAP06 Sanguinary Chamber (Red) by dobugabumaru
MAP07 Meat Train (Gore) by FoH & BloodyAcid
MAP08 Whispers in the Dark (Darkness) by FoH
MAP09 Ruin Me (Ruins) by Magnificent Beard
MAP10 Drowning (Water) by MajorRawne
MAP11 House that Fear Built (Past) by MajorRawne
MAP12 Vertigo Limit (Skyscraper) by FoH
MAP13 The Sigil (Déjà vu) by Dobugabumaru
MAP31 Cacophobia (Doom) by BloodyAcid


This list might get drastically reduced by the end of next week if we are unable to to significantly improve Major's maps in time. So we are gonna need to split up the workload here a bit. I'll isolate the maps below and assign them for other's to work on and help Major finish them. I'm wont push you out Major, but you will have to limit yourself to just working on one map (ahem MAP11) that way you don't step on other peoples toes as they will be working on your maps at the same time. At this point, outside help from anyone is appreciated, but do keep in mind Halloween is fast approaching so anyone who decides to take up a map has to work very diligently.

MajorRawnes Help List
MAP01 Welcome to Fear (Panophobia), FoH
MAP03 Spider Island Pt1 (Spider)
MAP10 Drowning (Water)
MAP11 House that Fear Built (Past), MajorRawne
MAP12 Spider Island Pt 2 (Spider)

Finally, I'll be adding a state of the project address at the same time I post alpha 2. Good luck gentlemen and godspeed!

Last edited by fiend-o-hell on 10-22-12 at 04:07

Old Post 10-21-12 21:23 #
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MajorRawne
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Spider part 1 became map 01. There currently isn't a Spider part 2.

Old Post 10-21-12 22:05 #
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BloodyAcid
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If you could, I might get a chance to revamp Meat Train, so could you please post or PM a link for that? (Unless the 9.8.12 release has the latest version)

Old Post 10-22-12 00:15 #
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Pottus
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Hey guys, noticing lots of the usual kind of problems a project has at this point in development on most maps.

- Lots of small alignment issues
- Missing upper/lower unpegged
- Half-cut bricks
- Unclosed sectors
- Unique to this project on some maps flats are used as textures and textures as flats potential compatibility problems here I think

Old Post 10-22-12 01:33 #
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BloodyAcid
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Unique to this project on some maps flats are used as textures and textures as flats potential compatibility problems here I think
/is guilty

I built that map last year before I learned the difference between Vanilla/Boom and Limit removing/modern sourceports. I thought that it didn't matter where a flat or wall was placed, but now I know better :)

Old Post 10-22-12 03:11 #
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Pottus
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What I want to know is how you managed to see what the textures were in DB2 when you placed them they just come up as unknown for me with the default ? marks.

Old Post 10-22-12 03:45 #
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dobu gabu maru
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Here ya go fiend, download Sanguinary Chamber. A couple notes as always.

- Big battle is still being playtested. I kind of like the flow to it, but it might go on too long/be too difficult for an early map. I dunno, others will have to see. Mancs are pretty brutal.

- Couple rooms still have to be decorated, like the red key switch room, so excuse their ugliness.

- AVs are not accessible, therefore it's impossible to 100%. I'm keeping them out for this edition because I don't have the proper timing on their appearance (they teleport into a chamber, and then later teleport into the big fight), and until I know whether or not the big fight is happily beatable by most people, I would rather have them not cause headaches.

- I apologize if anyone's computer hates me for the stupid ceiling details.

- music is by p.corf.

BONUS: Erythrophobia doubles as "fear of the color red" and "fear of blushing".

Old Post 10-22-12 03:47 #
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BloodyAcid
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Pottus said:
What I want to know is how you managed to see what the textures were in DB2 when you placed them they just come up as unknown for me with the default ? marks.
I mapped with Skulltag - Doom in Doom format for that map, until I realized that there was a "Boom" option in the dropdown menu.

Old Post 10-22-12 04:00 #
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fiend-o-hell
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@MajorRawne: Oh right! Sorry about that. I have omitted Spider Island pt 2 on the list.

@BloodyAcid: Meat Train hasn't been worked on at all, so you could basically work off of the one that's probably already on your HD or from the pre-release pack. I was about to work on it, but by all means, you take it.

@Pottus: Alignment issues will have to be one of those last minute polish things that will be addressed towards the last few days of release.

@Dobugabumaru: Thanks for that! I'll go give'er a spin a bit.

Last edited by fiend-o-hell on 10-22-12 at 04:10

Old Post 10-22-12 04:04 #
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Pottus
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LOL Bloody! You know what though it's good you did that because you'd never learn anything if you didn't make mistakes.

Old Post 10-22-12 04:20 #
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fiend-o-hell
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@Dobugabumaru: ran through Sanguinary Chamber with IDDQD and it looks and plays great! One thing that kinda stuck out for me was that when the music ends, it stays silent for a long time. Dunno if it was the port I was playing on or the track itself. Just something to look into...

Also, I liked the starting area. It was more or less how I planned to implement that into all the maps. At this point though I can't decide weather to use the phobia name or to just put the actual fear of name in since some of them have some pretty ambiguous meanings. Like "Ruins" in place of "Atephobia".

Old Post 10-22-12 04:56 #
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dobu gabu maru
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Music was chosen at the last minute so I never even got to hear it loop. Always liked that song though. I don't know how to fix it...

And I like using the phobia name instead of just "ruins" or "skyscrapers" because the player can pick up on those phobias very quickly. Using the official names is more interesting IMO, and we can include what they are the fear of in the text file.

Old Post 10-22-12 06:17 #
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MajorRawne
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Fiend: please don't work on my Welcome to Hell and water maps until I upload the final alphas.

Is the Halloween release another alpha? If so I may have time to work on a proper Spider map in time for a beta release. This project is consuming too much of my personal life so I will only do this if there is more time available.

I've put a lot of thought into my map titles so I at least want these referred to in the text files (their correct names please, everyone is calling them by made-up names!).

I will need guidance on what to do with my fear of the past map. I've done so much work on it, it's 50% done, and I am getting way too stressed here.

Old Post 10-22-12 13:11 #
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fiend-o-hell
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@Major: For consistency sake, I'm going with the names I choose Major, but if you wish, they can be called whatever you like in the txt file (as well is the in-game names). I probably won't have time during the week to work on your maps, so try uploading everything you can by the weekend. From there I would like other mappers to finish them up over the weekend.

I was noticing that I don't have custom tracks for Water and Fear. I'll have to choose placeholders for them for the alpha 2 release or if you read this in time and supply me with the tracks in time.

@BloodyAcid: same goes to you. I need a track for Meat-Train!

The Halloween release will be a final version release.

For now I'm still working on the alpha compilation...

Old Post 10-23-12 04:17 #
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dobu gabu maru
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I know we already pushed the deadline back to meet the Halloween goal, but I really think that we're going to need some more time playtesting and tweaking maps past that date. We should actually set the 31st as a "final" beta goal, where all maps get submitted and only change due to bugs and gameplay issues, with absolutely no new areas or fights being added. One weekend isn't enough to playtest all the maps and get a proper feel for them for the final release, and I'd rather not be worried about whether people can break my map after it's already on idgames.

Also, if you just don't want to deal with it anymore, I can help compile the final details and everything after the 31st fiend. You've already done a lot and you're eager to get this out, but I still don't think we should sacrifice a few days worth of polishing in order to make an arbitrary deadline. Ultimately as project leader, it's your decision, but I think this is the best solution.

Also Major, work on every other map in the meantime. If the fear of the past map is bugging you too much that you don't want to touch the others, then make it with a playable start and do your best to balance monsters & ammo and I'll run through it. I could only judge it on look and feel, but the gameplay might be where that map shines.

Old Post 10-23-12 05:46 #
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MajorRawne
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I will provide new links to the music and the final alpha uploads when I get home this evening along with a .txt listing every possible niggly issue I'm aware of in the maps. There aren't many in map 1 and the water map.

As for fear of the past, that would be done by now but I halted work on it after the last feedback. All it needs is keys, monster balance and some redecorating; the potential "frankenstein's monster" of texture clashes will have to stand for now. I feel the gameplay is intense and very tough so it will hopefully get through on that.

We can always upload fixed versions later.

EDIT: I should have said this earlier, I apologise if my lack of experience and general noobishness are holding everybody up.

Old Post 10-23-12 12:05 #
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fiend-o-hell
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This weekend is gonna be critical in determining weather a final or a beta gets released Dobugabumaru. Thanks for offering to take over as project leader, but I feel very invested and motivated to keep things as they are now.

As for the status of that compilation, a few things are holding me back:

Firstly (puffs up chest, punches air), I admit that I have not updated my maps! But then again I can make the revisions relatively quickly and my maps arn't the problem...

Which brings me to my next point, Major, I love you man, your my bro, my homy G Dog, but your maps are terrible! What needs to happen is that you need to play test and write down all the bugs and HOMS that you see so you fix and bring each maps up to a playable state from start to finish without there being any serious glitches or bugs. THEN and ONLY then can other start to help. Right now, The House the Fear Built is way to buggy to finish, not to mention dang impossible and low on ammo. This needs to happen somehow before the weekend starts, so by Friday. I'll do what I can to help, otherwise I'm cutting.

Thirdly, Meat-Train is heavily underdeveloped at this point, so I need to know if your gonna finish it BloodyAcid or if I'm gonna have to cut it?

Fourthly, I need music for Meat-Train and some Major Maps.

I'll try with all my might to get some kind of compilation out by tomorrow with all the things we discussed. This weekend I don't want to do any serious building (scept for Major's maps)except for polishing and play testing...

Fifthly, woof woof! Grrr woof!

Old Post 10-25-12 07:05 #
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BloodyAcid
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Thirdly, Meat-Train is heavily underdeveloped at this point, so I need to know if your gonna finish it BloodyAcid or if I'm gonna have to cut it?
I'm freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee this weekend, so I'll (hopefully) finish it.


Fourthly, I need music for Meat-Train
Uhh...I leave that up to the compiler (aka you)

Old Post 10-25-12 08:07 #
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MajorRawne
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fiend-o-hell said:
Right now, The House the Fear Built is way to buggy to finish, not to mention dang impossible and low on ammo. This needs to happen somehow before the weekend starts, so by Friday. I'll do what I can to help, otherwise I'm cutting.


Major Rawne said:
Here's the most up to date version of map 02, The House That Fear Built, along with the midi. NOTE THIS IS NOT FINISHED AND IS NOT BEATABLE FROM SCRATCH - there is still work to be done. It's just for a look around.



fiend-o-hell said:
Which brings me to my next point, Major, I love you man, your my bro, my homy G Dog, but your maps are terrible! What needs to happen is that you need to play test and write down all the bugs and HOMS that you see so you fix and bring each maps up to a playable state from start to finish without there being any serious glitches or bugs. THEN and ONLY then can other start to help.


I haven't uploaded the "final" versions of my water and welcome to hell maps; I'm not aware of any HOMS or serious glitches in these maps. All maps have been tested in ZDoom, but I'm going to run through them again now.

EDIT:

The water map that you played has had 23 fixes since then! It now runs perfectly in ZDoom and GZDoom. I haven't picked any music as nothing I chose fits the mood.

Last edited by MajorRawne on 10-25-12 at 17:26

Old Post 10-25-12 16:40 #
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dobu gabu maru
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I'm gonna be busy for part of the weekend, but I'll try and get at my maps. I really think the beta for the 31st is about the best we'll do, since there's a lot of things to do in only a week's time.

Also Major, I'm looking for another track to fit Sanguinary Chamber better, but if you listen to the track I have there, I think it's really fitting for your water map.

Old Post 10-25-12 17:35 #
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MajorRawne
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Thanks mate, I'll give it a listen. Sorry I have not been able to provide any support for you, I know you've put some damn hard work into your map.

Fear of the Past won't be done by tomorrow, I've won another holiday at work so will not be able to work on that map again before the deadline. I'd need 2-3 days to re-texture certain areas and properly sort out monsters, ammo, keys and Ultimate Doom tributes. I DO think the map can be fully playable and enjoyable, there's just no more time.

Oh and the water map has had 27 fixes in total and is now finished.

Old Post 10-25-12 18:13 #
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