Doom Comic
Register | User Profile | Member List | F.A.Q | Privacy Policy | New Blog | Search Forums | Forums Home
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > WADs & Mods > Doom 2 The Way id Did [Final Beta Released!]
Pages (24): « First ... « 20 21 22 [23] 24 »  
Author
All times are GMT. The time now is 09:32. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
ellmo
Custom Title


Posts: 1647
Registered: 04-03


Loooong time I haven't posted anything, but twid as always simply makes me post.

As per ususal, after downloading I made a few IDCLEVs and... map31 is a god damn masterpiece, whoever had that idea deserves a Nobel Prize.

I've started recording my pistol-start blind playthrough.

Old Post 10-10-13 10:41 #
ellmo is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Cell
Senior Member


Posts: 2398
Registered: 08-10


Well, for so long, I've finally decided to play the Final Beta, and I wasn't disappointed, all the levels and ideas are pretty cool. Yes, there are some nitpicks that were quite irking (that fast elevator needing perfect timing on MAP12 for example), but, as long as they were parts of the normal gameplay and I was aware of them since playing the original IWAD, they soon became fun instead. Very well done!

Old Post 10-10-13 12:39 #
Cell is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
NightFright
Junior Member


Posts: 224
Registered: 08-10



Cell said:
[...] Yes, there are some nitpicks that were quite irking (that fast elevator needing perfect timing on MAP12 for example) [...]

That elevator part should definitely get reworked. There were no such acrobatic acts needed in the original Doom 2, and I don't see why they should be introduced now (unless I am totally mistaken and I don't know the D2 maps at all).

Old Post 10-10-13 12:57 #
NightFright is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Alfonzo
Broadcaster


Posts: 913
Registered: 01-10


If you're talking about the raisable PE platform in the center of the main building, the surrounding lava sector can be drained by a switch located elsewhere in the room in order to allow for further lowering of the platform. The strafe running technique is admittedly the first thing I tried when I played the map (and what I continue to do!), but it's not quite what Sandy had in mind.

Old Post 10-10-13 13:40 #
Alfonzo is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
NightFright
Junior Member


Posts: 224
Registered: 08-10


Well, I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I also don't remember if it really was map 12... I think rather map 09 ("The Gambit").

I meant this triangle platform you gotta raise and time a quick crossing to the other side to reach a ledge with a skull switch. I have no clue how many times I have tried to get to it, but in the end I used IDCLIP since I didn't want to waste more time on this. Such passages should be avoided in general, I think...

Last edited by NightFright on 10-10-13 at 15:13

Old Post 10-10-13 13:46 #
NightFright is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Xfing
Junior Member


Posts: 161
Registered: 09-11



NightFright said:
Well, I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I also don't remember if it really was map 12... I think rather map 09 ("The Gambit").

I meant this triangle platform you gotta raise and time a quick crossing to the other side to reach a ledge with a skull switch. I have no clue how many times I have tried to get to it, but in the end I used IDCLIP since I didn't want to waste more time on this. Such passages should be avoided in general, I think...



This room was sooo frustrating at the beginning. It's actually nothing short of a puzzle. Takes time to figure it out. But I got stuck at raising the small platform to get you to the ledge on the right, took me like 20 minutes to figure that one out.

Old Post 10-12-13 01:46 #
Xfing is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
dew
experts


Posts: 3614
Registered: 05-08


Whew, the following maps took me much longer than expected. Especially map12 was a time sink, I had to research some stuff in depth, heh.

map11: pack: A long explorative FDA and a fairly well planned max.

Speed route is secret, but the authorities have been noticed through non-public channels. :P I hear the map's getting "squashed" a bit, but I'm taking heads off if the trick disappears. It's just too sweet and might make sense even for a more optimized max run. I believe pacifist should be possible with a bit of silly monster manipulation and patience, heh.

Speaking of squashed - yes, the northwestern room and the western secret are noticeably spacious and sparse, so those I can see getting miniaturized. The eastern side with the nukage gorge and the BFG secret is built a bit awkward, but doesn't feel out of place, or non-Romeresque. If you're making that smaller as well, be gentle.

Anyways, I dig the map. While open and loopy, it has very clearly defined areas that you can visit at any given order from the map start, because only parts of them are locked. Also ledges and windows to other parts and small route loops and teleports everywhere. Full points for that, very Circle-of-Deathish while not having the iconic circle at all. First time players will have a lot of fun exploring and making sense of the layout.

After getting to know the map, it becomes quite a RL blastfest. The max was entertaining to make. Plan out the route, speed through parts to herd monsters into vulnerable packs... it makes the map fairly easy, but the challenge then comes from going faster and being even more efficient, risk more. Make use of the BFG, perhaps. The only parts that felt like padding would be the entire west section and the loop around the nukage pit where monster placement seems like easy filler. I can imagine going more badass there. A pair of shotgunners on each side of the teleporters, maybe a spider on one of them, revenants are fine too. More HKs in the BA secret?

As for MP, I think you should cut out two DM starts. There's just too much for such a map. Things 424 and 429 seem like a good choice. They're in silly places/near to other spawns, imo. Poor guy spawning at t.428 gets dicked by lack of choice (or rather: all of them are bad). While very Doom2-like, you should probably move him to sector 21 so he can decide what to do with his miserable life.

And where's the coop cyber?!


map12: pack: A FDA, a well-researched&planned max using a bit of TASing. Segments, cause I hated how I kept botching some preplanned situations. A "casual" speedrun on the "obvious" route. A pair of more hardcore speedruns will be delivered privately. :)

Factory jam. It's both easy if you play it right and defuse the traps and messy if you don't. That's quite like Sandy. Visually and technically very faithful (except the control sectors, of course). Almost everything feels correct and definitely brings out nostalgia. I sank a lot of time into researching some of the quirks this map has, because speedrunners/maxers will quite certainly encounter them. It's also kinda faithful to all the exploits found in Sandy's abusable designs, but some of them might need adjusting.

The most glaring one is the central lift. The PEs are certainly a solid fight if you start killing them and soon there are lost souls everywhere (like in the FDA), but speedrunners will just run into their dumb faces and chill on the raising lift, because stillborn lost souls. This is where the partially crushing floor effects sets in if the PEs hover above the edge of the lift. It won't kill PEs with full efect, however, and they get stuck in the architecture. This makes the lift inoperable. It probably needs a different action, one that just pins the PEs against the ceiling (the way you can pin the mastermind in map07, heh).

I don't like the BK trap. The combination of monsters in a fast door trap this tight... I actually don't remember Sandy doing that. What you could do here would be to put lost souls there, that'd be less ridiculous and perhaps more surprising for people using boom monster counters, heh. You'd probably need to move two or three from the closet with 8 of them and the other three from around the corner (put imps there instead?) Keep the pigs, I guess. The room is also a 100% certain pacifist run killer. The trap is unsolvable by infighting or pushing through. I tried to get a monster from outside to hold the door for me while I grab the key, but no go. Lost souls are the most obv candidate, but they're too small and stupid... the other monsters will hardly even fit in and the vile chasing you to the BK (which is cool otherwise) is too twitchy. What you possibly do here would be... eh, no spoilers. I'll discuss on irc.

Re: MP. I laughed when I spotted the vile squad. Should be fun. Remove a DM start or two, thy're too dense for such a small map. t.229 seems a bit pointless and 230 could easily go as well. Weapon placement seems reasonable, except you're totally missing out a possibly fun setup - put the BFG on the central lift! That way it may be easily accessible, or it may be on top of the lift. Or in a pit. All depending on how the players "deaccess" it. So worth it.

Both my speedrun and max abuse catching the central lift early, which is quite neat. Other than that the speedrun is fairly easy this way. Especially if you stomp down the vile tele destination, hehe. I like the way you can flick in and out the RL ledge. Other stuff will be discussed privately.

Oh and I find it charming how efficient the pigs can be in the soulsphere house. They seem to be winning in infighting for once, nice.

(Memo/balancing: medkit to s. 84, make l. 325 action 1, maybe l. 341 be action 63 then.)

Last edited by dew on 10-13-13 at 00:31

Old Post 10-12-13 15:57 #
dew is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Tarnsman
Forum Regular


Posts: 893
Registered: 05-11


Sandy did do some bullshit traps like that. See the walls opening on you in Courtyard in that one building and the factory teleport into imp rape.

Old Post 10-12-13 17:46 #
Tarnsman is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Cell
Senior Member


Posts: 2398
Registered: 08-10



NightFright said:
Well, I am not sure if we are talking about the same thing. I also don't remember if it really was map 12... I think rather map 09 ("The Gambit").

Well, there was something that had to do with elevator timing at the end of MAP09, but it wasn't that enerving.

Old Post 10-12-13 19:34 #
Cell is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
dew
experts


Posts: 3614
Registered: 05-08



Tarnsman said:
Sandy did do some bullshit traps like that. See the walls opening on you in Courtyard in that one building and the factory teleport into imp rape.

Hmm, true. I'd argue neither of them is this unrelenting and more importantly, both are optional.


Cell said:
Well, there was something that had to do with elevator timing at the end of MAP09, but it wasn't that enerving.

I assume he's talking about the first puzzle in the tall YK room. I did try to beat that with speed at first as well, but after a few failed sr50 attempts it became obvious to me that wasn't the point of that setup, heh. Clever one. I think I've seen something vaguely similar in one of valkiriforce's megawads.

Last edited by dew on 10-12-13 at 20:05

Old Post 10-12-13 20:00 #
dew is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
LingtheDoomGuy
Mini-Member


Posts: 62
Registered: 06-12


Is there going to be a new title screen picture for this? Cause I think I found a title screen pic that should be suited for this project.

Old Post 10-13-13 02:48 #
LingtheDoomGuy is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
NightFright
Junior Member


Posts: 224
Registered: 08-10


Dunno if it was reported already, but this is a visual glitch I found on Map24:

Screenshot #1 (map view)
Screenshot #2 (ingame view)

Screenshots taken with ZDoom 2.8pre-237.

Old Post 10-13-13 10:34 #
NightFright is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
T-1
Newbie


Posts: 5
Registered: 11-05


http://i.imgur.com/0icOs29.png
hom on map19 if you pull the swithc in the screenshot twice

Old Post 10-13-13 14:25 #
T-1 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Marcaek
Senior Member


Posts: 1361
Registered: 12-10



LingtheDoomGuy said:
Is there going to be a new title screen picture for this? Cause I think I found a title screen pic that should be suited for this project.


We're open to suggestions, but anything submitted should be an original work or cleared by the owner for reuse at least.

Old Post 10-13-13 23:22 #
Marcaek is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
T-1
Newbie


Posts: 5
Registered: 11-05


just read the post about not fixing homs, my bad for reporting one then, just trying to be helpful

Old Post 10-14-13 10:12 #
T-1 is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Tarnsman
Forum Regular


Posts: 893
Registered: 05-11


it's only HOMS like the ones left in by id due to them only existing by accident or complete oversight any egregious shit that would be blatantly obvious in 1994 at shit resolution, is fixed.

Old Post 10-14-13 16:54 #
Tarnsman is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Dragonsbrethren
Senior Member


Posts: 2472
Registered: 03-09


So does D2TWID have any missing lines? :)

Old Post 10-14-13 21:57 #
Dragonsbrethren is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
dew
experts


Posts: 3614
Registered: 05-08


Some of these maps are real timesinks when I'm fooling around discovering secrets, best routes, exploits... I love it, heh. Also I switched to e8 for these.

map13: pack: Just a FDA and a max, because no spoiling the speed trick, heh.

The maxdemo actually has a bunch of pretty cool little tricks and ideas towards time/route optimization. It's also TAS'd (segmented) because I couldn't memorize all that criss-crossing and teleporting and kept getting lost and there's plenty of that in the FDA, so that's cut out, heh. Btw, planning a good route took me quite some time, heh. The repeated tele exits from the SSG building were a conundrum to work around. The SSG grab is worth the difficulty and I'm proud of returning from the cell pack/revenant sniper secret ledge before the door closes, hah. The most research didn't go into optimizing invul time, surprisingly, but into making the cyb infight with the caco army before they disperse. Yay!

So yeah, the map is a really great sandbox full of little ideas and convoluted secrets, all waiting to be abused by the player in creative ways. That's a great positive! Thematically I must say I get more of a "What if Sandy did Industrial Zone" than straight Sandytown, so while gameplay is faithful, theme is bastardized by Romero a little, hehe. Visually it's the shoddiest Petersen quick paintjob before the producers come for the final release, the ridiculous clashing and misaligned textures sear the eye of the perfectionist. Good.

Now to the not-so-good. I managed to dig myself into a hole in the FDA by not getting weapons soon enough/not doing the buildings in the "correct" order and I was sentenced to clear most of the map with just sg, cg and zerk. All the mancos and cacos and whatnot included. That wasn't much fun, so I'll reiterate the solution I proposed on irc: do the Sandy arrow and screw the "no homages" rule. It might actually serve a purpose here if it points at the SSG/plasma building.

I also wanted to yell at you for the obscurity of the RL secret, but it was actually just my inability to distinguish the two separate switch walls. Pretty devious, I must say. And finally someone brings in the invuls and just flaps them around like there's no shame, gahd look at those balls.

The speed route I'll comment on just vaguely, but it's a good mix of super-optimized running, lift waiting and some trickery. Feels like it should, this was missing so far. (Oh and I think the DM BFG can be grabbed, just by looking at it in DB. Leave it in, I guess.)


map14: pack: a FDA and a max with a solid plan, but rather poor execution that is maybe fun to watch because of the hurting, heh. Speed kept secret again, but I'm afraid I spoil most of it in both FDA/max anyways.

The speed is actually very easy and very, very short. Well, I guess a map like that had to come sooner or later, like The Courtyard or Tricks&Traps if you know what you're doing. It is an exploit id would be likely to make though (as observed in a few maps), so all is according to plans.

Actually, the whole map is pretty damn easy. It throws an unparalelled amount of megaresources at player if he bothers to find them. I don't think McGee was this soft, so I'd say: the library BA -> GA. Mega -> soulsphere. Zerk in the RK room -> MP only (McGee does something like that in map14 with a BA). It's also slightly surprising to see a library map without a vile, heh. Surely one can be thrown into the library of infinite secrets?

I have to say it's a bit different variation than I'd expect. The wood and the water is there, but apart from the nooks&crannies it's more in style of McGee's E1 indoor stuff. It's alright tho, the Inmost Dens is his most unique and uncharacteristic work. You know, I find it a bit weird no one at id jumped on the bandwagon after he presented that map. It's certainly influenced a lot of, pardon the expression, matured mappers as THE sleek&sexy style that the original Doom couldn't even dream of.

Oh and running the max was pure joy, because I was given way too many powerups AND there's a lovely SSG grab right at start. (leave that in!!) It should be more challenging if you cull some of the bonuses. And some rockets, because they make the big fights way too trivial. So I'd say turn those two crates in the soulsphere-on-ledge secret to just a few single rockets. There needs to be less spam, heh. Plasma seems capped appropriatelly.

A few DM balancing ideas ideas at a glance: SG t.373 is very very useless. Make it a CG and move it closer to the non-lowering pillar, farther from the secret dropwall. Everyone hates accidental pickups & weapon switches. The DM start at, eh uh, start is rather disadvantaged. Move it back to back with the ledge-at-YK spawn (with the wall between them, of course) so he can go for the SSG grab or flee into the map. SG t.362 is both in an annoying spot and p weakass for the guy spawning in the RK room. Could be a CG on the RK platform and everyone wins. Otherwise I like.

Old Post 10-14-13 23:44 #
dew is online now Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Amph
Warming Up


Posts: 27
Registered: 06-13


i can't find the last secret of map 08

there is a guide somewhere?

ok found it

Old Post 10-15-13 09:53 #
Amph is offline Profile || Blog || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
ellmo
Custom Title


Posts: 1647
Registered: 04-03


Doing a series of "first attempt videos". Trying to simply play blind and explore and enjoy.
After the map is finished and I find out I missed on secrets, I reload and look for them.

Playlist link with 5 movies so far (will be updated): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xuf...HKcIc_oSXaTimkj



Last edited by ellmo on 10-16-13 at 10:17

Old Post 10-15-13 11:59 #
ellmo is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Alfonzo
Broadcaster


Posts: 913
Registered: 01-10


Big thanks to all the testers and enthusiasts who've thrown their opinions and observations into the ring, here -- especially dew and Xfing. We're leaving no stone unturned as we close in on the final release, so rest assured we're taking note.

Also, it's great to see a DTWiD veteran returning to the cause. Thanks for the vids, ellmo!

Old Post 10-15-13 12:14 #
Alfonzo is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
ellmo
Custom Title


Posts: 1647
Registered: 04-03



Alfonzo said:
Also, it's great to see a DTWiD veteran returning to the cause. Thanks for the vids, ellmo!


It's the least I can do now :)
I know people make maps for others to play and take great pleasure when they see the maps played (at least that's what always drives me), so consider these videos a token of gratitude.

I enjoy it thoroughly, the pacing, the atmosphere. I play on HMP and so far the megawad is exactly what I expect from a Doom2-based medium difficulty.

Old Post 10-15-13 13:53 #
ellmo is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Tarnsman
Forum Regular


Posts: 893
Registered: 05-11


The Compund > The Compound

Old Post 10-15-13 16:25 #
Tarnsman is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
ellmo
Custom Title


Posts: 1647
Registered: 04-03



Tarnsman said:
The Compund > The Compound

Fuck, there goes a whole movie to re-render.

EDIT: reuploaded

Last edited by ellmo on 10-16-13 at 10:16

Old Post 10-15-13 18:00 #
ellmo is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Homepage || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Xfing
Junior Member


Posts: 161
Registered: 09-11


Thanks for being mentioned, but that's the least I could do. Sadly, work and real life kinda prevent me from playing more. But guess I'll run one or two levels now and see if there's anything I could add.

Old Post 10-15-13 19:34 #
Xfing is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Xfing
Junior Member


Posts: 161
Registered: 09-11


Level 13: The soul sphere hidden in a pillar that lowers doesn't register as a secret. It prolly should, as there seems to be nothing out of the ordinary on that pillar.

Old Post 10-15-13 20:45 #
Xfing is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
NightFright
Junior Member


Posts: 224
Registered: 08-10


Finally finished everything. In general, I think the D2 atmosphere was present in all the maps - in some more, in some maybe less.

Only thing I didn't figure out was how to beat the final level. xD I know that you are...

Spoiler:
... supposed to stand on that mini platform you raise with the nearby skull switch and shoot rockets through a narrow opening on the other side of the room to eventually hit the Icon of Sin,...


... but I have no clue how to lower the two pillars that block the rockets from hitting the Icon. Any ideas? xD

Old Post 10-16-13 09:58 #
NightFright is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Tarnsman
Forum Regular


Posts: 893
Registered: 05-11


You need to do stuff after you shoot the rocket while it's in mid-flight.

Old Post 10-16-13 17:48 #
Tarnsman is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
Xfing
Junior Member


Posts: 161
Registered: 09-11



Tarnsman said:
You need to do stuff after you shoot the rocket while it's in mid-flight.


Yep. Took me a while to figure that out too. Plus, it takes more rockets to get the job done than one would expect, which increases the difficulty, adrenaline and sense of threat to fresh levels. Without being absurd like Plutonia 2 or Hell Revealed.

Old Post 10-16-13 20:56 #
Xfing is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Email || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
NightFright
Junior Member


Posts: 224
Registered: 08-10


Interesting... this way it makes sense that the rocket needs to travel such a long distance, of course. Certainly a tricky approach and less obvious than the original Icon map. Well, can't hurt to use your brain for a change! ^^ Gotta see if I can figure it out now.

Old Post 10-16-13 21:18 #
NightFright is offline Profile || Blog || PM || Search || Add Buddy IP || Edit/Delete || Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 09:32. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (24): « First ... « 20 21 22 [23] 24 »  
Doomworld Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.2.5 Doomworld Forums > Classic Doom > WADs & Mods > Doom 2 The Way id Did [Final Beta Released!]

Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread

 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are OFF
[IMG] code is ON
 

< Contact Us - Doomworld >

Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.5
Copyright ©2000, 2001, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.