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Bloodite Krypto
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http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l244/StarScream_01/Morgaunt-03.pnghttp://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l244/StarScream_01/Morgaunt-01.png

So it came to pass that your once faithful Master whom you served with the utmost of patience and dedication, in learning the forbidden arcane secrets of necromancy as his sole apprentice, has envisioned a manical odyssey of deceit from the whims of his black heart. How could he do this you wondered with forlorn despair? You knew the monster couldn't be trusted ever since he glared at you for besting him in a blood ritual, but fortunately as the favour of the Gods shines upon thee, he has decided to spare your life on condition you survive the fabled labyrinth he devised many years ago for the sole pleasure of observing would be victims who stumbled into his nest of otherworldly beasts.

You'll make the bastard pay for ever crossing you, even if it means losing a limb or two, the stakes are too high for the knowledge he has now withheld from you, as you stare up from the drudgery of a blackened dungeon with blood oozing from your torso as a result of his sudden impact marking his betrayal, he cackles with a mortifying stare at your penetrating look of unshakable determination.

'Even if you can make it out of my nightmarish labyrinth, can you survive the dreaded wall of a thousand haunted souls?'


What is it?

My first wad.

An arduous onslaught through the otherworldly remnants of your fallen master.

What does it run with?

Boom Compatible - Tested with PRBoom+ (2.5.1.3) but it should work in ZDoom and Skulltag.

Difficulty?

Hardcore enthusiasts.

Technicalities?

I've played through this several times, deducting ammo and health where it was too generous and adding in some areas where it was lacking, I haven't noticed any significant bugs, some linedefs could be skippable but otherwise I'd happy with the current manifestation, save for any tips on aesthetics and feedback.

Enter the lethal artifice (V5 Beta - Highly renovated!)

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on 08-20-13 at 13:55

Old Post 03-28-12 15:09 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
may have been DoomHero85 at some point


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NICE!!! Downloading.

E: Okay, played a little.

Big thing: The opening battle is impossible if you're giving the rocket launcher and having that imp swarm, you can't survive that.

Little things: consider making some of the larger scrolling textures inset in walls, the big scrolling walls look 1994-ish. Also, the skylight in the first room could be raised up to make it look better.

Other than that. Good start. If you add difficulties you can toss this in SF2k12 :)

Last edited by General Rainbow Bacon on 03-28-12 at 15:41

Old Post 03-28-12 15:30 #
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Phml
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FDA.

...I can appreciate the inventivity, but, yeah. Not going to touch this one again without savespam or ITYTD. Possibly both. ;)

You have blocking decorations (infinitelytall) over switches in the first room.

Old Post 03-28-12 15:47 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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You can get out of the start if you understand movement mechanics, I've done it several times and even with over 70%, also I can play most of the map without saving.

Also Phml had the wrong tactic, your meant to circle strafe around the room in small increments after the Imps, then you have enough space as the HK's group into the centre.

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on 03-28-12 at 18:15

Old Post 03-28-12 18:06 #
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Phml
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Played it again in ITYTD, then gave up and just went through with God Mode once I reached the small-sized room where you have to fight 3 cybies.

The final door (linedef 1694) opens and closes immediately. If you don't rush forward, you're stuck. The linedefs surrounding that door (1699, 1701) seem to have an odd texture.

It is possible to fall down in the caco holes and get stuck. Sectors 215, 217, 219, 221.

The first corridor door (sector 82) can be opened through the lowering bars and revenants lured through, after which the chaingunner ambush becomes trivial as you can just hide in the sectors the revenants used to teleport in.

Haven't seen any other issue. Linedefs around the doors are all unpegged, but I suspect it's a conscious choice rather than an oversight?


Also Phml had the wrong tactic, your meant to circle strafe around the room in small increments after the Imps, then you have enough space as the HK's group into the centre.


That... is what I did? I don't understand.

Old Post 03-28-12 18:21 #
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j4rio
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Neat, seems like an epic sunder-ish map in the making. I can't really say much because I admitedly haven't managed to accompish anything outside iddqd. :S Maybe rising those platforms with revs and making them lower after a bit of time when things get manageable - it's just RNG luck whether they shoot at start immediately or not.

Old Post 03-28-12 18:34 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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I suppose I could remove 1/2 rows of Imps on every side and raise the Rev platforms a touch if it seems too haphazard.


Phml said:
Played it again in ITYTD, then gave up and just went through with God Mode once I reached the small-sized room where you have to fight 3 cybies.


One of my favourites :o although admitedly I was considering increasing the dimensions of the room, but I like how you have just enough room to dodge, it's fine if the two bunch up together, then it should be easy when one has bit the dust.

Also thank you for finding the over sights :)


Phml said:
The final door (linedef 1694) opens and closes immediately. If you don't rush forward, you're stuck. The linedefs surrounding that door (1699, 1701) seem to have an odd texture.


I thought a turbo door would be ideal since making bars with the short distance would be awkward.

Not sure how to solve those Caco wells, it seems difficult to accidently fall into them.

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on 03-28-12 at 19:00

Old Post 03-28-12 18:35 #
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PRIMEVAL
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I like the screenies, but since you say it's for "Hardcore enthusiasts," I'm afraid I'll have to refrain from playing it because I'm far from hardcore and will only get frustrated X) Sorry

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Old Post 03-28-12 19:00 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Obsolete

-Got rid of 8 rows of Imps and raised Rev platforms at start

-Raised sector 48 and added GSTVINE2 front upper textures

-Moved sector 82 back a bit

-Changed the decorations in the side alcoves to not block

-Changed sidedefs at final door

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on 06-23-12 at 21:36

Old Post 03-28-12 19:09 #
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Phml
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Not sure how to solve those Caco wells, it seems difficult to accidently fall into them.


The issue I wanted to imply is mostly that you can be stuck permanently if, i.e. every monster in the room is dead, you're out of rockets and you fall into a well. Adding a damage effect on these sectors would remove the problem. Regardless, as you say it's probably not an issue likely to happen in practical play.

Old Post 03-28-12 22:01 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Obsolete

- Changed sector 292 for better detail

- Lowered sector 227 so you can't fall into Caco wells

- Changed final door to repeatable

- Extended bar length in sector 109

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on 06-23-12 at 21:37

Old Post 03-29-12 08:28 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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So I take it everyone either hates or can't beat the map, or maybe both :o

Old Post 03-31-12 07:56 #
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j4rio
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Still too luckbased start. :p

By raising rev platforms, I meant up to the ceiling rather than 20 units and when you press some switch in that room, they will lower. I tried it like this and still couldn't get through start reliably, but hey... :D

If you don't want to do changes - record a maxdemo, upload it to idgames and call it a day.

Old Post 03-31-12 08:26 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Silly, I can't record demo otherwise everyone would know how to beat it! They'll be a problem if Oku can't beat it :P

Old Post 03-31-12 09:34 #
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Phml
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By raising rev platforms, I meant up to the ceiling rather than 20 units and when you press some switch in that room, they will lower. I tried it like this and still couldn't get through start reliably, but hey... :D



Even in the first version, stepping back right away, killing a few imps and circlestrafing while letting everything infight seemed somewhat reliable to me. Once I figured it out, I have maybe a ~20% success rate doing so, which isn't so bad when we're talking about deaths occuring within seconds.

Mind you, replaying that part over and over, the first two minutes of circlestrafing while waiting for things to clear, gets tedious after deaths during the later parts. But that's me, I don't enjoy super hard maps as a rule (hence why, combined with lack of free time, I haven't tried out the next versions, btw). YMMV.


Silly, I can't record demo otherwise everyone would know how to beat it!


Honestly, I doubt having a complete walkthrough would help me any. I don't feel like I'm having too much of a problem with strategy here, it's my twitch skill that's hitting a ceiling, and I suspect many people would find themselves in the same situation.

Old Post 03-31-12 09:35 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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What is the meaning behind YMPV kind sir? :o

So you don't like Sunder then? I think this is easier then Oku's map in SF2011, silly Cyb and HK hallway has clear tactic but it get's redundant.

I might convert something else I was working on to SF2012, I wanted it to be non-slaughter, survival esque with low ammo and health but it'll take too much effort.

Old Post 03-31-12 09:38 #
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Phml
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Your mileage may vary. :)

Sunder is potentially easier than this. While the fights are hard if you speedrun, there is almost always a slow but safe way to get through the maps, save for certain specific traps where you just have to grit your teeth and play better. Map14 is the only one I haven't been able to beat total coward style yet, and that's more because of a lack of interest (I get suckerpunched by those very first revenants way too often, heh).

Okuplok's map felt somewhat easier to me, too. Still harder than what I like, mind you. Yet I felt I had more options, even if realistically it was so tough those options were more illusion than anything. In Mordrigor it just feels like, well, a gauntlet (so I guess you hit that right! ;) ), room after room of super tough traps with one intended way to go, period.

It really comes down to options for me. If I'm forced to play at a breakneck pace, like I'm pushed on a black slope even though I'm a crap skier, I'm just going to get hurt and not have a whole lot of fun. If, on the other hand, there's a red slope right next to it, and you give me the choice to alternate between the two at will (wow, that analogy sure broke down fast), it's going to be a much more entertaining experience.

Old Post 03-31-12 09:48 #
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gggmork
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Havn't fully tried yet but seems u can't walk over the line past the revenants cuz the bars block it.

Old Post 03-31-12 10:26 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Obsolete

Should be fixed now.

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on 06-23-12 at 21:37

Old Post 03-31-12 11:08 #
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dannebubinga
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Just tried this out and got the same problem as gggmork. So I didn't play past the bar-room.

I think it was quite hard. Hard in a luck-based way that I'm not a fan of. You should consider listening to what Phml and J4rio has to say, because my opinion on this map is just an echo of what they just said.

It was also hard to play this with an open mind since I saw you trolling in JCD's release thread of Survival in Hell. You called his project unserious. If Survival in Hell was unserious, then what the hell is this map?

Old Post 03-31-12 11:21 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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I wasn't trolling :(

It's a good wad but could use slight reduction in health.

I'm more then happy to modify the map further for optimal gameplay experience based on feedback, the start is slightly over par and tedious, could reduce HK's and Revs, I'll take a closer look at later sections, perhaps reduced monster counts would feel more balanced and won't detract from the challenge I intended.

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on 03-31-12 at 12:44

Old Post 03-31-12 11:29 #
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gggmork
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I think it might be realistically doable as is, mostly thanks to a trick I found. Not sure if I want to give the trick away yet as I'd prefer it left in there, ha ha (might be intentional anyway).

But this is more buggish stuff:
1) imo, when blocking stuff is near a wall it should be either clearly against the wall or clearly leaving a gap to walk between it and the wall. Like the caco pits, some u can walk behind, some it looks like u can almost walk behind but you can't, which could easily result in death unless you know. Same for final fight room with some torches that you can squeeze past and others you can't but visually doesn't look obvious whether u can or can't.

2) imo, start area should be accessible again later, perhaps after the bfg room (columns lower again) so u can clean up stragglers u might have left instead of having them stuck behind bars.

how about.. in bfg room there's a key in the far cubby. when you leave bfg room, up stairs door doesn't open. instead bars will be lowered so you can return to start room and there's the key door, perhaps in the mastermind side area. Open key door = small area with a switch that opens that door up the stairs, and also starts crusher on all 3x red barons (because they already served their difficulty purpose earlier and would just be tedious to clean up now). (dummy scrolling player could do both actions). Maybe that megasphere up the stairs could be put in the key door instead just so it feels like there's more purpose going in the keydoor to also get the megasphere. Maybe.

3) sector 348/347, how about 7200 tall instead of 8000 so u don't have to wait so long?

4) final fight has some warps where warp lines are on the bottom of tall sectors, which could easily result in a couple extra straggler hell knights going back all the way then forward to finally warp again. You could probably keep the warp frequency basically the same, by squashing the sector 1/4 its height and pasting 4 times. Then sector 1 warps to sector 2, 2 warps to 3, 3 warps to 4 and 4 warps to the final battle area (same amount of monsters, just squashed into 4 sectors so they have less room to meander backwards).

some doors don't have 'unpegged' tracks, I don't care if you don't

Old Post 04-01-12 00:20 #
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gggmork
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Beat the first area only then died while trying to show 'the trick' which is to run into the triple cyber room, hit the switch and run back out using those cybers to infight later. Doing that has an ok success rate but died that time. Really challenging fun map. One of those maps where beating it at all is the challenge instead of as fast as possible. Without that 'trick' it'd be too hard for me, so I like that you can do that.

http://speedy.sh/sSpVY/morgaunt-bet...AIL-cl9-ggg.lmp

Old Post 04-02-12 06:58 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Excellent feedback on numerous points mork, just the type of acute detail I was hoping for.

Creating working monster teleporters was the greatest challenge and didn't always come out the most efficient or well meaning, particularly when I had problems with creating multiple linedefs and sectors and trying to keep everything tidy.

Those torchs are a crucial problem I bypassed but was made aware of as I had to rearrange them in the HK/AV room as they were inhibiting movement drastically, bumping into or not having enough room can result in death, I need to take a closer look at the room dimensions and I think they'd be more ideal not against the wall so you can walk around and between them like you suggested, acting as a semi-barrier.

How about I remove one Cyber in the trap and replace him with Barons, it'd make it more interesting evoking infighting in tight surroundings while toning down the over scaled difficulty.

I'm entirely unfamiliar with Voodoo Dolls, implementing scrolling floors shouldn't be a problem but I wanted to avoid anything complex or over technical for a first map, unless I am given a demonstration or explanation on how to execute certain features.

Also how's the first segment of the last room? Their used to be more Medkits but I thought it'd be too generous.

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on 04-04-12 at 23:04

Old Post 04-04-12 22:56 #
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gggmork
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IMO the 3 cybers are good as long as you can still flip the switch and run to the opposite side (then you can shoot to wake the warping revenants safe behind the bar). The cybers actually help infighting in the opposite room, so that switch 'trick' makes two very hard rooms easier as well as the revenants that warp in the hall. If one of the cybers was hell knights, they'd neutralize eachother thus leaving no cyber to use for infighting later, actually making it harder.

If its boom format, scrolling dummy player1's are quite useful and easy. Make a 64 x 256 or so verticle rectangle outside the map. Add a point so there's a verticle split line on the top right 64 long (length affects speed (64 is good), line angle affects scrolling direction (down in this case). Give that line 'scroll floor move things' (tagged to that sector). Put a tiny 4x4 square door box in front of dummy player blocking him. Then whatever action line 'door open only', thus making the dummy player scroll, then have him scroll over multiple walk over lines to do multiple whatever things.
The player triggers a line when his middle passes it, so you can even put the tiny square door slightly in front of the middle of the player so he triggers the line immediately instead of having a delay.
If you put multiple player1's in a map then the last one created is the 'real' one.

The first segment of the last room seems doable as is but didn't try 100%.

Old Post 04-05-12 00:09 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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gggmork said:
IMO the 3 cybers are good as long as you can still flip the switch and run to the opposite side (then you can shoot to wake the warping revenants safe behind the bar).


Nope, that wasn't intended at all, now I have to move the switch further back.

Old Post 04-07-12 21:30 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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gggmork said:

how about.. in bfg room there's a key in the far cubby. when you leave bfg room, up stairs door doesn't open. instead bars will be lowered so you can return to start room and there's the key door, perhaps in the mastermind side area. Open key door = small area with a switch that opens that door up the stairs, and also starts crusher on all 3x red barons (because they already served their difficulty purpose earlier and would just be tedious to clean up now). (dummy scrolling player could do both actions). Maybe that megasphere up the stairs could be put in the key door instead just so it feels like there's more purpose going in the keydoor to also get the megasphere. Maybe.


I'm confused on how to implement this, wouldn't all the bars have to share the same tag for one linedef to lower them all simulatenously? Wouldn't it mess up the initial rooms :S

The good news is I have thoroughly readjusted the map to be more friendly and not suicidal.

-Enemies now face away from you at the start, reduced Imps and HK's so it's not as repetitive, should only take around a minute to clear.

-Later rooms have changed enemies, more health.

-Placed torchs in corners as gggmork advised, placed scrolling walls within insets as Doomhero suggested.

-Readjusted the dimensions of the blood cavern so theirs no hesitation about where it's safe to stand.

Now I'm just puzzled on how to revisit earlier rooms after BFG.

Old Post 04-18-12 22:43 #
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Phml
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You could set up a voodoo doll on a scrolling sector to trigger these multiple different linedefs at once.

Old Post 04-18-12 23:24 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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This sounds painful and complex, gonna need a visual tutorial! D:

Old Post 04-18-12 23:49 #
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Phml
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Quick mockup:

http://filesmelt.com/dl/voodoo1.PNG

Upper (gray) sector is the real playing area, where the player is. Lower (brown) sector is the control sector, where the voodoo doll is. A voodoo doll is just an additional player start that stands still but behave like the player in some ways (can be hit, can trigger linedefs by walking through them, etc.).

In this example, you'd set the control sector to have effect 256 (friction: enabled) and put the effect 252 (scroll move things according to line vector) on that upper linedef (of the control sector, still) so the voodoo doll moves from left to right.

That little square in the control sector would be a door, controlled by the big linedef in the playing area. Once the player crosses that gray sector linedef, it'd open the door in the control sector, and let the voodoo doll scroll to the next two (or any number you want) linedefs, triggering these for different actions.

Whichever Thing becomes the real player start is determined by the ID, highest becomes player start and everything else end up voodoo dolls.

This is how I understand it anyway and there might be inaccuracies, but what's shown above works as intended in my own maps.

Old Post 04-19-12 00:00 #
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