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gggmork
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Posts: 2842
Registered: 06-07


I think 7 and 23 from sf2011v8 had it. The gist is the 'real' player only activates one line, this raises a door that was stuck on top of a scrolling dummy player 1 in an outer sector. Since the door was opened he's free to walk over however many linedefs you want (probably preferably close together so they happen closer in time), thus having the door trigger multiple things.
Tag a line and sector the same, line is 'scroll floor move things'. Floor moves same direction as line, faster if line is longer (64 is a good length to use.. less can have problems like the dummy might not scroll the right speed, faster it might skip over linedefs I suppose).
Make the door blocking the player a tiny little 4x4 box or something because that'll need a tag for a door and thus not be scrolling itself.
That idea was just a suggestion though of course since its your map. Did you ever beat the triple cyber part out of curiosity? The 'trick' of hitting the switch then running to the opposite side actually made the cyber part AND the opposite side easier (because the cybers helped infight there). Both sides were really hard without it for me.

I used to put the dummy player in a 4x4 hole to make him stuck, then raise the hole.. but that worked differently in zdoom vs prboom+, so door is better. I'm pretty sure a line is triggered when the MIDDLE of the player's body crosses a line, thus you can even make the furthest line of the door the first walk over line to make it activate really quick instead of waiting for his body to move a body's length to the first line.
Also when you do stuff like 'lower to highest', that means INSTANT raise.
Also apparently sf2011 map 21 has a dumb bug where you can just sit in the hole and wait for the dummy player to cycle through everything before shooting, all well, might have fixed that if I wasn't lolbanned.

Last edited by gggmork on 04-19-12 at 04:05

Old Post 04-19-12 03:57 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Posts: 1912
Registered: 05-09


I used voodoo dolls on nearly every map of newgothic if you want to look at that. It doesn't take long to get used to using them.

Here's my fda on v4. I get to the point where I can open the sm and cybs up twice, but the spectres get me. At that point I quit, because it takes a lot of tries to get out with >50 hp, and I didn't want to learn how to deal with the spectres. I was surprised that I made it out a few times with >90 hp, which was nice - I just kept losing it all to rocket splash/revenant homing/lucky baron/hk hits.

If there's one thing I'd recommend changing, it's to have a separate room you teleport from where you pick up the RL - that second or two of weapon-swapping makes the imp start extra tight and is a PIA if you like hold the left-mouse button down when firing and you get it a second early. Another point is to make the switch a little bit more visible - it took me several tries and looking at the map after I died to figure out where it was.

Old Post 04-19-12 09:28 #
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Anima Zero
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Posts: 800
Registered: 09-04


Yeah, I can't even say I enjoy this map when the opening few seconds are way way too luck based. I tried recording a FDA...I only opened up the Spider Mastermind/Cybie/Spectre trap in the first room twice in ~10 minutes of play...and I died every 5 seconds on average with the way too luckcrap based start.

Being hard is fine for me, but when you're getting past the start and circling the outside of the room like 10% of the time because, if that, it doesn't leave a good impression in my eyes and is just gonna make people ragequit (Like me!).

I'd suggest what AB said and make the player start off in a room where you get the RL, then step forward into a portal into the first room. That little delay of switching to a new weapon makes a difference here.

Also, less HKs at the start. Way too often I'd get through the imps only to be blocked half the time, if not more, by the HKs.

Perhaps a bit more easily accessable health or give the player a Soulsphere on top of the Megaarmor at the start please ;D?

Old Post 04-19-12 14:17 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Posts: 289
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It's been a long time coming, but at last I present the revised and polished rendition of my otherwise masochistic playground, while the overall gameplay remains relatively the same I payed acute attention to both reducing and removing specific monsters in certain areas to provide a more balanced encounter not reliant on darting reflexes and hindsight planning.

Morgaunt-Beta-V5

- The start now comes with a 'Megasphere' along with added Stimpacks.

- The Hellknights at the start shouldn't really overwhelm the player now with their count reduced.

- Starting enemies face away with the exception of walled Barons.

- Added a Soulsphere and Armor into the supply alcoves and moved the items back so your not forced into taking them when not needed.

- Provided a few extra rocket packs on the bundles as I noted potential ammo shortages a few times.

- Removed one Cyber in the side trap, replaced with Barons, added Medkits, extended the hallway length on both ends so you can utilize them for cover if necessary.

- Removed two Archviles in the nether realm room, I intended tactical movement using the red marble pillars for cover which with four becomes a pot luck roulette.

- Added an 'Invulnerability' in the Cyb/Spider quarry, although you'll have to avoid being splattered for around 30-40 seconds till it lowers.

- Added an additional Red key room in one of the Mastermind alcoves at the beginning which houses Cells and a Mega before entering the outside area.

- Added additional Medkits in the last room

- Touched up various detail, added unpegged options where necessary, etc.

I've played this through several times now, and the only area where I need to save and consider careful planning before hand are the last two battles as they require intuitive knowing of monster movement behaviour and knowing when to dart in and between hordes.

I was uncertain whether to remove any more enemies in the BFG room as it requires you to initially ram yourself aggressively into the side area, which may be a tad overwhelming for those who have poor dodging upclose, but shouldn't be a problem after the initial few steps.

That being said I'm very happy with the gameplay so far and it shouldn't be too overbearing in contrast to the previous editions, that being said I'm still open to suggestions.

Old Post 05-26-12 21:56 #
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Ribbiks
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Posts: 1320
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would be interested to see some replays by better doomers than myself. I can't seem to make it past either of the 2 side-rooms after the chaingunner hallway. Had a lot of fun though, addictive music too!

Did notice in the main room it was possible to have the arachs tele in and disposed of before the hallway of revenants pops up, not sure if intended but it certainly was much easier dealing with them separately.

Old Post 05-26-12 23:21 #
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gggmork
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Posts: 2842
Registered: 06-07


I like that edit. I died in this same spot 3 times:
http://speedy.sh/9MmFh/Morgaunt-Bet...l9-fail-ggg.lmp
probably because I didn't really figure out a memorized route to avoid the viles best, but probably doable.
After that my route while I was saving was to get the invuln right when the caco pit opened then run in there and rocket the arachs with the invuln.

Old Post 05-27-12 01:49 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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I didn't anticipate gggmork's crazy speedrun tactics \o/

Well just to show that it is beatable here's an entire UV Max!

http://www.speedyshare.com/pQe2c/Mo...-cl9-Krypto.lmp

I got it on my first try but I just love how the monsters act completely differently when demo recording. The Cyb at the start usually doesn't end up trying to sneak his way around in an attempt to pulverize me when cornered haha, and those other two actually guarded the Invul!

I got very lucky at times but I'm naturally nervous knowing I'm recording, I especially loved firing too early in the red cave waking up the Cacos, I usually shoot a volley of rockets into the Arachnotrons so I can dive their sooner when necessary.

This makes me consider toning down the enemies in some places! Feedback would be welcome.


Ribbiks said:
Did notice in the main room it was possible to have the arachs tele in and disposed of before the hallway of revenants pops up, not sure if intended but it certainly was much easier dealing with them separately.


I didn't notice that :o But I may leave it as it is as a gesture of kindness.


Ribbiks said:
Had a lot of fun though, addictive music too!


I swear it's the loudest damn MIDI I've ever heard, I need to set Timidity to atleast '25' or '30' volume :I

Last edited by Bloodite Krypto on 05-27-12 at 11:37

Old Post 05-27-12 11:05 #
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gggmork
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I like your tactics in the caco/arach room (seemed to use arach plasma to kill cacos too, I just went in with invuln to immediately kill arachs) and hell knight/vile room (circling seems safer than getting stuck in that hall, still I'd probably do it the hall way to lower the bars immediately for speed.
Well if you really want to remove the 'immediately hit switch and run away from cybers' 'exploit' you could make it so the walk over line makes the exit bars slowly lower with no switch. But to do that you'd probably have to guarantee that they were raised all the way first so they could do 'floor lower to highest __' so they immediately go up all the way to trap you when you walk in. As is, seems that exploit is faster so I'd do it every time. Has maybe 2/3 success rate.
Also if you change stuff maybe the bars to the switch that opens last room could lower 512 more so you don't have to wait so long and very final exit bars maybe lower 256 more.
Its possible to shoot to wake the cacos without going down. Not sure if its safer but its probably slower anyway.

Old Post 05-27-12 15:15 #
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gggmork
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Is this done/demos won't desync?

Old Post 06-29-12 19:50 #
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Retog
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This is still extremely hard but at least I can beat the first battle now, unlike in v4

Old Post 08-31-12 00:25 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Uhh sorry I went AWOL, real life stuff, but I've misplaced the map somewhere, can someone re-send it me please? xD

Old Post 07-28-13 18:37 #
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Ribbiks
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Posts: 1320
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all I have is the latest one I played, betav4, so unless you want an old version I suppose I'm not of much use.



Ribbiks said:
would be interested to see some replays by better doomers than myself. I can't seem to make it past either of the 2 side-rooms after the chaingunner hallway.


I wonder if I'm any less terrible at this game now, if someone uncovers v5 I think I'll try this wad again :)

Old Post 07-28-13 18:58 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Well I successfully recovered my Pandora's Box thanks to mysterious assistance.

Yes it is stupidly excessive in places and needs toning down. Experimentation and testing it all is.

http://filesmelt.com/dl/Morgaunt-Beta-V521.wad

The number reverted to 21 because apparently V5 is still acknowledged as being on Filesmelt's database except it's expired but still retains the original value heh.

Old Post 07-30-13 21:40 #
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Bloodite Krypto
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Right I want to finish/release this eventually as I'm very proud of my first work given I'm new to mapping, but I'd really appreciate some feedback on architectural detail because it looks a bit 90's in the Invul room, and the stairway going up to the final room.

Also some advice on gameplay balance would be phenomenal, perhaps less HK's at the start because it drags on, less AV's in the BFG Room and absolutely less AV's in the last fight. Not sure whether Spectres and Mastermind fight is lucksy, I pulled off the same routine continually without much problems.

Old Post 09-20-13 12:27 #
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