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SteveD
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E2M6 – Kills – 97, Items – 90, Secret – 33. Time 40:16. End Health – 100, Armor 54. Death Count – 3

Nice, dark, atmospheric map. Gameplay was a little slow and sloggy thanks to all the Barons and Cacos, and the map was very symmetrical. The toxic blood everywhere was an annoyance, and for me, did not contribute to the fun factor. Going back to the start again and again to snag a radsuit was just a drag. My advice, should you choose to accept it, is to eliminate the blood everywhere except for the yellow key trap, and a couple other traps.where it genuinely serves a purpose. Either that, or make the blood non-toxic. I just don’t like being restrained.

The Cyb made the gameplay even sloggier. Playing ring-around-the-SpiderQueen’s hideout was just a waste of time and ammo to me, but at least the Cyb could come to battle, unlike the turret-Cybs in E2M7, so you had to fight him.

The part I liked best was the yellow key trap. That was dag-nasty! :D I think 2 of my deaths happened there. I suppose it could be a teency bit more difficult if you wanted it to be, but I think it’s basically fine the way it is.

Too bad I played the older beta with the paralyzed SpiderQueen. I kept wishing she’d blast some Cacos and Barons for me! ;D But I gotta say, the Big Reveal of the SpiderQueen was damned impressive! We’ll see if I have time to play a fixed version. That could be fun.

One thing I thought was questionable was the Stonegarg columns in Sector 383. I love Stonegarg and it’s cool to wrap it around a sharp edge, but the columns seemed a little small to me.

Overall, this map was a bit of a letdown after the sheer insanity of E2M5. I guess it’s a breather map. It had some good fights and traps, but without a working SpiderQueen I’ll have to hold off judgment until the next beta is released.

Old Post 07-04-13 03:16 #
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LodiB88
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I happened to have played this level, the dark atmosphere caught me.

The blood can be managed very easily with all the radsuits the level gives and it seems like a well done way to extend the challenge just a bit. I found a fair amount of asymmetric aspects as well, didn't feel like I was doing the same thing twice. It is less grandiose than E2M5 (can tell just with map).

Rest seems like a pretty good summary and all.

Old Post 07-04-13 03:43 #
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cannonball
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@Steve D, I'm not surprised you were not so keen on this map. I tried to force the player further into the map to pick up the necessary items and firepower to clear the monsters they reveal earlier. This means people who plays slowly and more cautiously will probably end up having quite slog. This is apparent in the fact that quick players should be able to avoid going back to the start for more radsuit pickups as there are some on the way.
My advice when playing the map is leave the cyber when he is revealed, and proceed to the yellow key area, he shouldn't cause much of a bother as he should loiter near the start due to the game mechanics. You should have the tools to deal with him later and of course infighting possibilities.
I did increase the size of the stonegarg pillars :)

Old Post 07-04-13 10:49 #
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LodiB88
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E2M6 was definitely not a level where I found it viable to just sit back and fight everything. Many times I found myself running to the next area to escape and/or get better supplies. And yes, I did do some fisting. And some crushing, for that matter.

Cyberdemon definitely gave me impression its initial cameo is meant as a scare, I let him mind his own business for the time being and by the time he was back there was more ammo, space, infighting opportunities, etc.

Spider wasn't bugged for me, but I use ZDoom. Really should be playing 2a, as Episode 2 has some other differences I noticed between the two as well.

Last edited by LodiB88 on 07-04-13 at 20:41

Old Post 07-04-13 20:32 #
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cannonball
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3rd beta is here
http://speedy.sh/UTveV/concernbeta3.zip

Changelog
Visual improvements to E2M6
Some of the traps on E2M7 are harder to escape
Various stuff in episode 3, most notably refining the final room of E3M9 to make it harder.

I will probably Idgames this next Friday

Old Post 07-05-13 15:51 #
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SteveD
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I'm going to download beta3 after posting this.

E2M7 – Kills – 73, Items – 54, Secret – 11. Time 46:48. End Health – 200, Armor 134. Death Count – 10

Death Count back up to 10, now that’s more like it! But I have serious issues with this map. However, I guess I should have played Beta2A, and the just-released beta3. The biggest issue I had was, not surprisingly, the huge number of monsters I left behind. That should only happen if the monsters are in secret areas loaded with gameplay. Instead, as you know, it’s because they’re in traps that don’t work right, because they’re easy to escape, which I gather had been repaired in some cases in 2A. However, the flipside is that I would rather escape than hang around in small rooms with Herr Cyb plus a bunch of Pinkies and Barons hemming me in. Oh, what fun that is! Well, I guess it’s fun to other players. ;P Preferably, I’d like to kill everything, or very close to it, before I leave a map.

Riding a lift up to be attacked by the SpiderQueen at the very start is bound to raise some hackles. I played continuous, so I dusted her off with the BFG. Thanks for the columns to use as cover. They weren’t wide, but they were good enough. ;)

I got killed in most of the traps at least once, sometimes because, after I heard the teleports start, I waited around to see what would happen. That’s how I got killed the first time at the blue key trap, which is the easiest one to escape. Almost as easy to escape is the exit switch trap with four turreted Cybs. The really tough one is the yellow key trap, where I got killed 3 times. The snatch-and-grab strategy was obvious, and I’d go to one side, lower the lift, shoot, and wait for the Barons to converge. Then I’d run to the other side and ride the lift up, trusting in speed to survive the Cyb, but it wasn’t as easy to pull off as I hoped. I really should have started to run back once I started the second lift, then returned after I got the Barons moving, like the speedrunners do.

Probably my fave Cyb trap was the outdoor one with all the Cacos. That was diabolically clever and I died twice before I was able to cross one of the gorges and go out the way I came in.

There was a lot that I liked, such as the basic layout, though it did feel overly corridory. Still, there were plenty of overlooks from which the Sergeants could blast you, and plenty of cross-corridors and angles allowing monsters to trickle in, so that you always had to be on guard and you always kept taking damage. The main purpose of the architecture seemed devoted to the goal of continually hurting the player, and of course that’s a good thing. Health and ammo balance was very good, except it seemed like there wasn’t enough hi-test ammo to deal with the Cybs.

I thought the lighting was a bit bland, overly bright for the most part, and much less interesting than in E2M6.
Still, overall, I thought there was way too much use of Cybs as turrets. A Cyb that’s a turret cannot come out to do battle, and is therefore less fun than a Cyb that can chase you, IMO. The constant repetition of this theme felt gimmicky and I can’t help thinking this is another potentially polarizing map. It feels like slaughter themes are being grafted onto a standard mapset which, in my view, has too many easy maps – E2M2, E2M3 and E2M6, though the last could be much more dangerous with an active SpiderQueen.

So I don’t know about this one. The standard part of the map is quite good, the CyberTurret parts not so much, in my view. But here you are on the horns of a dilemma, how to make an Ultimate Doom map hard when you don't have Archies, Revvies and Chaingunners at your disposal. If you make it impossible or super-hard to escape the Cyb traps, I probably won’t like the map. If you leave the escape routes fairly easy so that more accomplished players can stay and fight to their heart’s content, while the rest of us say, “Fighting optional,” you risk leaving us with that sense of disappointment at leaving 25% of the enemies alive.

I might have to pistol-start some of the easier maps and then E2M7, because that way I get a feel for the difficulty through different approaches. The difficulty curve seems very unbalanced in this mapset – to a continuous player like me. Nice tough E2M1 followed by two trivially easy maps, then E2M4 is a tough survivalist/Tyson map (and what if we don’t wanna play Tyson-style?), E2M5 is the toughest of the bunch, E2M6 is pretty damned easy, at least in the paralyzed SpiderQueen version, and E2M7 hits us out of the blue with wildass crazy Cyberdemon/Baron/Pinkie traps where you get blocked and rocketed to death. The difficulty curve is more like a sine wave than a rising slope.

I’ll try to check any videos you have of playing through E2M7.

BTW, I enjoyed the sneaky little path to the Zerk and Invuln and had a fun time dashing through the corridor, punching everything in my path. Good practice for me. ;)

Old Post 07-05-13 16:47 #
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SteveD
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Forgot to mention that I enjoyed the music track for E2M7. One of the elements reminded me of a track from the Amiga Doom clone Breathless (1995), my favorite Doom clone of all time, as horrible as it is in many ways. But damn, that fog effect!

Old Post 07-05-13 17:23 #
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cannonball
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I will try and add more light variation to the map, I will also try and force the blue key area a little more.

Old Post 07-05-13 19:23 #
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LodiB88
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@SteveD I'm sure cannonball would appreciate if you downloaded Beta 3 and gave E3 a quick run posting your critiques. :)

Old Post 07-06-13 22:02 #
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SteveD
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LodiB88 said:
@SteveD I'm sure cannonball would appreciate if you downloaded Beta 3 and gave E3 a quick run posting your critiques. :)


I hope so. ;D I downloaded the new beta and plan to start it tomorrow, or tonight if I skip E2M8 and E2M9 of the original beta.

Old Post 07-06-13 22:24 #
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LodiB88
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SteveD said:


I hope so. ;D I downloaded the new beta and plan to start it tomorrow, or tonight if I skip E2M8 and E2M9 of the original beta.



Talking about polarizing as you occasionally have, I liked E2M9 but some people probably will totally not be able to stand it, should I make a guess.

Also for best feedback it's probably best to abandon continuous play and do pistol starting here on out.

Last edited by LodiB88 on 07-06-13 at 22:42

Old Post 07-06-13 22:33 #
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SteveD
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LodiB88 said:


Talking about polarizing as you occasionally have, I liked E2M9 but some people probably will totally not be able to stand it, should I make a guess.

Also for best feedback it's probably best to abandon continuous play and do pistol starting here on out.



I stand warned about E2M9. ;)

As for pistol-start vs. continuous, it's always been my belief that a mapset -- as opposed to individually-released maps -- should be optimized for continuous play as its first priority. That is the natural way to play a set, even if lots of Doomers these days are pistol starters. The best thing for a beta tester to do is play the maps both ways. Maybe E2M2 and E2M3 are more challenging from a pistol start, but by playing continuously, I can see the sine-wave pattern of difficulty. If one plays pistol-start only, there's no logical reason that maps should become progressively harder as you go through the set. Why not make the first map the hardest? No reason not to.

My next question would be, "How many people have playtested these maps continuously?" If everyone has pistol-started, maybe my persepctive from continuous play has more value than my pistol-start comments.

Natch, watching alfonzo's playthrough of RoC, the maps look pretty lame on continuous play, at least on HMP. But Memfis and a few other players seem to be fairly happy with pistol-start UV gameplay.

Ah, it's a quandary. ;D

I will try to do both methods, but time is not my friend right now, alas.

Old Post 07-06-13 23:11 #
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cannonball
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I always design maps for pistol start, perhaps I a little generous with ammo as opposed to say Double impact, on the other hand I do use sergeants a lot meaning shell can stack up quite quickly and the odds favour the conservative player who plays with the boomstick most of the time.
Interesting point about the sine wave difficulty, when thinking of other wads, I could think of very few which have a straight difficulty progression. The level difficulty did seem to ebb and flow rather than just increase. Would be interesting if people could think of wads which do have a straight difficulty progression.
Pistol starting these maps you would probably experience less sine wavinness :P

Old Post 07-07-13 07:35 #
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SteveD
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E2M8 – Kills – 100, Items – 100, Secret – 100. Time 1:43. End Health – N/A, Armor N/A. Death Count – 1
Well, it’s a boss map. :P Sorta reminds me of 2002:ADO’s E2M8. My death on the first try was a combo “Good at Doom” moment and a lucky shot by the Cyb. Moving right along . . .

E2M9 – Kills-100, Items – 98, Secret – 100. Time 40:17. End Health 136, Armor 85. Death Count – 3.

Lodi said this could be a polarizing map. I guess that would have to be because of the darkness. I saw light levels as low as 80. Luckily, I play on Risen3D, which handles such light levels very well, to the point where it looks really, really good. I’m guessing you play on PRBoom? That also handles the dark well. GZDoomers will be practically blind. ;D

I agree with Lodi, I thought this was a fantastic map. Very good looking, very atmospheric with a lot of tension and suspense, and very good use of subtle gradient lighting.

I think my first death came came in the big dark area with the red door. All those teleporting Sergeants and Spectres finally got me. Next time I went through a side door, which unveiled a Caco. I was able to draw it out and let the Barons up in an alcove kill it.

There was some good combat in the Sector 193 and 234 rooms. Nice job on having enemies placed in such a way as to fire at the player from above and at different angles. And then we have the Plasma Gun room. I died twice in there because I foolishly tried to fight the room from inside. Too many enemies, and too many hitscanners taking advantage of all the meat hemming me in. On the third try, I first checked that I could open the door from inside. Ah, well, now it was easy. In some ways, I’m disappointed by that. ;D

At some point, I teleported back to the start and was greeted by a mass of monsters coming up the hall, infighting like crazy. It was cool to watch the flash of the fireball monsters in the darkness, like watching a distant naval battle. I was able to handle the survivors very easily with the RL, although it took a lot of rockets to take down all the Barons.

Battles beyond the red door were good, with well-placed Sergeants drawing my health pretty low. I spent most of the map at between 50 – 80% health, but sometimes got as low as 20%. I never felt secure until I found the Soulsphere, at which point I started playing more aggressively. The final fight with the teleporting Barons was fun, and accomplished mostly with the PG since I was running low on rockets by then. I suppose I could have run past them to the exit, but couldn’t resist going for UV Max.

This is really an excellent map, very good-looking with nice flow and atmosphere. It isn’t super-hard, and BTW, I pistol-started your damned map, so I hope you’re happy now. :P ;D I actually pistol-started 3 of the 9 maps.

E2, overall, is successful. It’s more difficult than CBSpeed, which is a good thing. You still have the tendency to make your traps easily escapable – the final teleport trap in E2M2, the monster-flood teleport trap in E2M3, and – thank God! – the Cyb traps in E2M7, and finally, the PG room trap in E2M9. I mean, what’s up with all that? It’s like you’re swinging a sledgehammer at me, and at the last moment, you decide to miss, snicker, and say, “I almost got ya, laddie!” Well, why not go for it? Why not put something in my escape route? I, personally, like to open traps in front of and behind the player. Or distract the player with enemies in front while opening a trap behind. Then again, I usually don’t have traps as ginormous as the ones you’ve wielded here, so mine aren’t as likely to kill the players who stand their ground to fight. Just the same, when I hear teleports in your maps, I know the best thing to do is run back the way I came in, because nothing will be there to stop me. It’s similar to but different from the CBSpeed trap predictability, where anytime you saw a switch at the end of a hallway, you press it and haul ass backwards, because a small monster closet will open up on both sides of that switch damn near every time, and once again, there’s nothing behind you preventing escape. If there’s anything you need to work on, IMO, it’s that predictability. Take E2M3, for example. Imagine teleporting a couple or more Barons to the central pyramid during the big teleport monster flood. Now you have Barons in the escape route, and a mass of monsters chasing you from behind. That makes for a very different fight than just running to the central pyramid and waiting for a little casual rocket practice against all the monsters chasing you from just one direction, and funneled into a corridor, making them your helpless fodder. The only way such a trap makes sense is against continuous players, because you make them use up their rockets. On pistol-start, there’s nothing but a couple Barons to dust off at the exit.

I’ll be pistol-starting E3, so we’ll see how that changes the dynamic. I can certainly understand how you optimize for pistol-start. In my E1 maps, E1M7 is my favorite map, but you have to pistol start to get the full experience. Even walking in there with a shotgun and 2 shells is enough to ruin the beginning. I also had to work on bumping up the difficulty of E1M6 to prevent players from walking into E1M7 with too much health and ammo. But continuous players are going to play continuously, just as pistol starters will always pistol start, and you have to keep them in mind. By the same token, since returning to the Doom community and joining the Megawad Club, I have learned to keep pistol starters in mind, which includes making the heavy weapons secrets in many maps where continuous players already have them, the proper use of Zerks, and many other things that will help improve my maps for a variety of players, including speedrunners.

Of course, you can’t please everybody. On that note, my favorite map in E2 was the amazing, spirit-crushing E2M5. 20 deaths! It’s the kind of thing that’s so rough when you go through it, but you’ll never forget it, and the experience grows fonder in memory. The construction was masterful, and the E1ish areas, with all their cross-connecting corridors and non-stop frantic action, is Doom at its best for me. I even hope you leave the horrifying E1 nuke pit the way it is. Fuck it, this is Doom, not a Carnival Cruise. Swing that baseball bat full of razorblades! ;) If someone wants to rage-quit, let them! I got through it, and I suck! :D

I also liked E2M1 and most of E2M7, and of course, E2M9. I liked E2M3 also, but mostly the early part. Every map was expertly done, some just appeal to my taste more than others.

I’ll be starting E3 tonight, with write-ups starting tomorrow.

Last edited by SteveD on 07-07-13 at 20:55

Old Post 07-07-13 20:43 #
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LodiB88
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When you say you had to work on bumping up the difficulty of E1M6, what wad are you referring to?

And yes, I was referring to the darkness but I thought it was well executed.

Probably should switch to Beta 3 for E3.

Old Post 07-07-13 21:01 #
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SteveD
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LodiB88 said:
When you say you had to work on bumping up the difficulty of E1M6, what wad are you referring to?



My as-yet unreleased E1 replacement. I still have to do E1M8 and E1M9. E1M6 will be the polarizing map in that one, I'm sure.

And yes, I will be playing Beta 3. ;) And I agree that the darkness in E2M9 was well-executed. Hell on GZDoomers, though. :D

Old Post 07-07-13 21:36 #
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LodiB88
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So RoIC is going to be a Doom I episode?

Old Post 07-07-13 21:44 #
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SteveD
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LodiB88 said:
So RoIC is going to be a Doom I episode?


No, it's a revision of all my RoC maps for Doom 2. Map27 will be blown out and heavily modified because it's the oldest and, quite frankly, most fucked-up of all my RoC maps, but there's still things I like about it which I'll retain.

The E1 replacement consists of maps begun in 1997/98, but I stopped work in 2000 when I couldn't get a license for Hellmaker, because the old one didn't carry over to the newest MacOS and Paul Davidson was gone. I dusted-off these E1 maps in 2011 and started finishing them in DB2.

There will be another Doom 2 mapset based on modified old maps that were mostly never released, but were well advanced, to be called Abcess, and finally, there's a bunch of partial old maps to finish and cap off with a drastic revision of my first map. So between the E1 and Abcess maps, I should release 14 maps this year. But then, I've said that before. ;D

Old Post 07-07-13 22:32 #
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cannonball
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Implemented simple door mechanism to the plasma gun room to trap the player for a reasonable amount of time. Might modify the final trap in E2M3 for funsies too.

Old Post 07-07-13 22:36 #
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LodiB88
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cannonball said:
Implemented simple door mechanism to the plasma gun room to trap the player for a reasonable amount of time. Might modify the final trap in E2M3 for funsies too.


I think what SteveD is saying in general is you should really modify at least many of the traps in both episodes thus far so that an easy escape is not an option, though at the same time making sure they aren't cheap or unfair. Which I'd tend to second that notion, taking a quick look at some of the locations.

Last edited by LodiB88 on 07-07-13 at 23:03

Old Post 07-07-13 22:53 #
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SteveD
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cannonball said:
Implemented simple door mechanism to the plasma gun room to trap the player for a reasonable amount of time. Might modify the final trap in E2M3 for funsies too.


And if people start screaming after release about these nasty traps, just remember, you never heard of SteveD, and SteveD came nowhere near these maps before release . . . ;D

Old Post 07-07-13 22:55 #
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cannonball
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LodiB88 said:


I think what SteveD is saying in general is you should really modify at least many of the traps in both episodes thus far so that an easy escape is not an option, though at the same time making sure they aren't cheap or unfair.



Plasma gun room you are just sealed in whilst the monsters teleport in so that shouldn't be an issue. E2M3 I just teleported in a few imps and demons into the pyramid area to mildly inhibit escape to the start area. Nothing horrendous.

Old Post 07-07-13 23:02 #
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LodiB88
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cannonball said:


Plasma gun room you are just sealed in whilst the monsters teleport in so that shouldn't be an issue. E2M3 I just teleported in a few imps and demons into the pyramid area to mildly inhibit escape to the start area. Nothing horrendous.



He mentioned E2M2, M7 (though M7 does look modified a bit by Beta 3), and some overall E1 tendencies as well.

E2M7 looks as if it might already be worth re-evaluating in Beta 3 though.

Old Post 07-07-13 23:08 #
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SteveD
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E3M1 – Kills – 86, Items – 28, Secret – 0. Time 4:54. End Health – 32, Armor 0. Death Count – 12

Wow! Well, first, I beat your crazy map, dude! ;D Hah! No More Mr. Nice Guy from you. :P

Man, that was some shocker of an opening. I mean, I was like a deer in the headlights for a couple seconds. Amazingly, while I stood there transfixed by the sight before me, I wasn’t killed! That was the biggest surprise in the whole map. But I was due to die repeatedly.

So, for a few times I kept coming at the switches from the sides, causing me to get hung up on the edges for just a moment. First, splash damage. Then eventually, multiple deaths by rocket. One time I actually got the teleport open and tried to telefrag that big fucker. Didn’t work. Changed my approach to the switches. Instead of going in at an angle, I went in straight and then backed out at an angle. I died a couple more times but knew I was gonna succeed with the new plan. Made more attempts – at least four – to telefrag the Cyb. Came close once, but you gave him too much room up there, oh evil one. ;D

Went into the bulk of the level and died more times. I swear, when I put Sergeants in those murder holes, they never shoot as well as these jagoffs did. Fuck, but the RNG hated me. It seemed like every Sergeant was packing an SSG. I was getting hopelessly blown away by these bastards. At least I saved my game on the occasion that I located the Zerk. Since you only gave me a slingshot and four rocks for ammo, I really needed that punching power for the Pinkies and Spectres.

When I grabbed the yellow key and the Cacos appeared, I tried getting them to infight with the Baron. All that did is waste time. I needed to get the fuck outta there! The only experience I had in this map was sheer panic from beginning to end. If this is the effect you wanted, then you succeeded! :D Had no desire at all to explore for secrets or wander around. Escape, escape, just let me escape!

So yeah, this was a very effective opener for the masochistic set. Oh, Capellan will love this, won’t he? ;D Thank God Herr Cyb is there on all difficulty settings. I want everyone to suffer like I did.

Let’s face it, you’re about to release a mapset that some players will strongly dislike, but others will love like crazy. It’s a polarizer, but as per my discussion with Memfis at the Megawad Club, what it comes down to is that this is your vision, so just go for it and let the gibs fall where they may. :)

Old Post 07-08-13 10:36 #
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cannonball
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hmm, maybe Risen3d is giving issues here. I tested this in choco doom and pr-boom, zdoom, gzdoom and had 100% success rate with the cyber telefrag.

Old Post 07-08-13 13:57 #
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LodiB88
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Gave E3M1 start a test in ZDoom, telefragged with success five times in a row. Maybe switch to a more orthodox port to test with Steve. PRBoom+ perhaps?

Also I too have no problem with some potentially polarizing maps/moments (it's not that easy to make a good challenge with Doom I) but still find no excuse for easily escapable traps.

Old Post 07-08-13 14:36 #
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SteveD
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I God Moded the start in GLBoom and GZDoom and telefragged the Cyb on the first try in both. Then I did it again in Risen3D and . . . telefragged the Cyb on the first try. Got no idea why it didn't work last night. Like I said, the RNG hated me. ;D

Old Post 07-08-13 16:16 #
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cannonball
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SteveD said:


And if people start screaming after release about these nasty traps, just remember, you never heard of SteveD, and SteveD came nowhere near these maps before release . . . ;D


Whilst I'm quoting this, I'm actually addressing another post here, but I feel this actually sums my thoughts up. What happened to player choice. If you want to wuss out and take pop shots with the shotgun fine. The ironic fact is implementing certain suggestions on here would result in people making the reverse complaint. This wad is supposed to have some dynamic flow which obviously can't happen if in every trap I prevent the player from managing an escape route. Sometimes optimal routes and overall level strategies would be compromised. Remember I was a speedrunner before I started mapping and sometimes I bias my mapping towards this, rather than slow casual play. I really don't want to compromise further on this issue. I tried using some outside the box situations like the ending of E2M7 where the entrance is blocked by spectres and barons rather than a solid wall. Sometimes using the timed door special from E1M6 works but I'd rather use it sparingly and use more dynamic solutions.

Old Post 07-08-13 18:32 #
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SteveD
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cannonball said:

What happened to player choice. If you want to wuss out and take pop shots with the shotgun fine. The ironic fact is implementing certain suggestions on here would result in people making the reverse complaint. This wad is supposed to have some dynamic flow which obviously can't happen if in every trap I prevent the player from managing an escape route. Sometimes optimal routes and overall level strategies would be compromised. Remember I was a speedrunner before I started mapping and sometimes I bias my mapping towards this, rather than slow casual play. I really don't want to compromise further on this issue.



Well said, cannonball. Natch, I always push for maps to be a little bit harder -- up to a point, the point of my incompetence. ;D As I said in my E2M7 comments, if you made those Cyb/Baron/Pinkie traps inescapable, I'd hate your map. I'd rage-quit your map. But that's me. Players like Memfis, Heretic, Hitherto, SAV88 and other Doom Gods may look at those traps and say, "Ah, my prayers have been answered!"

It's a diverse community and you can't please everybody with everything and you can't be all things to all Doomers. I can only give you my advice and my take on things. Talk about player choice? Well, I choose to play continuously, but I'm flexible and will pistol-start also. I choose to play with Risen3D, but I have a whole shelf of ports just in case R3D gets borked by some ZDoom feature.

So I would say that I, personally, am fine with the E2M7 traps as they were in the first beta. I don't wanna fight those fights. I want out.

Truth be told, I don't want to be stuck in E2M9's PG room, either. Once the trap started, no matter which way I turned, I got restrained by invisible meat and blasted to death by Sergeants. Figuring out a strategy to avoid Spectre meat in a dark room is going to be difficult and maybe I can't be arsed to do it. I would actually prefer that trap to be as it was in the first beta. No, I'm not happy about easy escapes, either. It's Doom psychology here. I want to kill everything, but I don't want to be hopelessly slaughtered in traps I can't handle. Given a choice between those extremes, I'd prefer to let some of those monsters live rather than suffer endless frustration trying to kill them in traps pitched above my skill level.

The most important person you have to please is yourself. I am the target audience for my maps. I prefer run 'n gun play with monster closets and cruel enemy placement. Not so much a user of teleport traps. So that's what you get from me. I seem to have an endless fascination for that type of play. If players don't like it, there's other mappers to choose from.

Your vision is unique. I've never seen anything quite like some of these maps. Just do 'em the way you like to do 'em. I'll still comment on the gameplay and look for things that are broken, and offer my advice which is yours to take or leave as you wish.

Now, I'm trying to imagine how long I'm gonna last in E3M2 starting at 32% health on continuous play. This is gonna be worse than the pistol start! ;D

Old Post 07-08-13 20:21 #
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cannonball
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Cool beans and keep firing away, what I will do if a trap is too easy is to simply plant a few monsters in the escape route, did this for E2M3 already.
You should be ok on E3M2, like E2M2 it's a more standard level than the gimmicky starter map. though you might get blown away by hitscanners :P

Old Post 07-08-13 20:32 #
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