Community Chest 4 (PUBLIC BETA PERIOD OVER!)

[Dutch Doomer]

Chex Warrior said:

Map 10 just reinforces my habit to save all plasma ammo until you really really need it. Loved the map dutch, very very cool.

Thanks, can't wait for CC5 :p

[TMD]

Starting work on it around the holidays. Expect a fall 2017 release!

[hawkwind]

map 13 ...

The only nitpick I could find with this map is that many of the MIDMOS1A/B textures did not line up on either side of the lines.

map 14 ...

1. cc4bet2.txt states this ...
"As of this writing, parts of MAP14 will not be rendered correctly when played in certain ports such as GLBoom+ and Risen3D. This is because of the use of the Mordeth bridge effect."
This will be fixed in the next version of Risen3D, as will most, if not all, other issues that affect R3D.
2. Sectors 2595 and 2598 looked like they could use a lamp.
3. Ceiling of sector 169 looked off with a green flat. Maybe something like brown1f1 instead.
4. Floor of sector 2885 might look better with slime14.
5. Sectors 2879 and 2880 might look better with a ceiling height of 80 - skywall.
6. Sectors 414, 417 etc. could have used fake sectors instead.
7. back-side lowers of lines 4008 and 2942 missing lower textures - "slimes" when sector 651 has lowered. See back-side lower of line 4105, which is correct.
8. Remove tag # from lines 8217, 8188 and 8189.
9. Was PC_W4C intended for lines 1937 and 1645 ? Doesn't match the rest of this area.

map 15 ...

1. Texture midrail1 on line 8202 does not align on both sides of the line.
2. MIDSPACE at line 763, 753, 759 and 736 bleeds into the floor in software ports.
3. With prboom+, there is a problem when looking out of translucent windows and viewing the blue sky.

[Crusader No Regret]

I guess I'm in a minority who likes map 16 the way it was in the first public beta (where the chaingun and SSG are in the outdoor area). I'll admit my initial impression was rather unfavorable; saw the pole hopping sequences and thought "yuck." I've come to like how the gameplay departs from the "see monster, kill it before moving on" formula. The gameplay exposes the player to risk to obtain tools when they'd be most useful. Choosing battles deliberately and utilizing infighting work here as there's enough ammo to allow a great deal of flexibility.

[glenzinho]

I'll join you in that minority, besides the way I play there were no monsters left to disturb me during the pole running sequences. It was slightly on the monster spamfest side but the parts of gameplay that others seem to have issues with don't bother me at all.

[DooMer 4ever]

I agree with the author of map 16 that the poles look pretty ugly now, and it's not even pole jumping anymore as you can't fall between them which makes it feel even sillier. Then again, I don't think the pole jumping concept is good to begin with and really "I hate speedrunners" type of move, even though I didn't find it them THAT hard. Even without practice I fell down only a couple of times. Perhaps the best idea would be indeed to remove the pole jumping altogether and come up with something else, or maybe have a teleporter become available close to the jumping sequences after you've reached the area for the first time so you don't have to run back to the faraway teleporter every time you fall.

Map 29 was my favorite of the wad. Awesome job on the visuals, even though the gameplay isn't that innovative with some rather typical slaugher map type of fights. Great job overall from everyone involved. Only a few boring filler maps and poor attempts with typically too much symmetry (map 17 was the one I hated most in the entire wad).

[dew]

oh, a small nitpick regarding map15: the windows above the small courtyard right at start are glass, but shots go through them. without breaking the glass. shocking, right?

[The Green Herring]

Already fixed in Public Beta Version 2:

The changelog thread said:
* You can no longer shoot through the windows in the outdoor section just outside the first room (thanks Doohnibor). [July 28, 2012]

Speaking of which, the changelog was updated about two hours ago. Some planned edits are included among them!

[hawkwind]

map 31 ( from map 15 ) ...

1. Wrong ceiling flat for sector 373. Should be FLAT10.
2. The only criticism I have for this level is that for OpenGL ports, many HK's, BoH's, Revenants and AV's have their heads rendering into the ceiling, due to the abundance of low ceilings.

... on to map 32...

[Mordeth]

The Green Herring said:
In fact, that area, among other places in the level, uses the Mordeth bridge effect, which is currently not supported by most hardware renderers. The level cannot be edited to fix this without removing the effect entirely. This reminds me that a "Known Bugs" note will have to be added to mention this.

When implementing opengl stuff into Doom ports was still in its infancy, people found that using full cyan textures instead of ommiting textures was enough to get effects like this working again. I'm not sure if that fix still applies today.

[Evolution]

All set for tomorrow night (8pm bst, or 8pm edt, whichever session you want to join)
Most definitely looking forward to it! (TNS post)

Also: <_Megasonic_> that wad I think is properly the best megawad I've ever played

[dew]

woo, finally went through the final maps! FDAs for 26-29: http://www.mediafire.com/?blqbsaelk16k90z
they're boring and slow and watch them with 200% speed in pr+, heh.


map26: oh wow, we're back to WoS! and i mean this in the good "lovely hell maps" way, not the bad "harping about c&p'd techbases" way, heh heh. also the synergy with map27 is just awesome, like kassman's 20+21.

check the linedefs in the northwestern part where the BK is (thing 738), some of them are hidden, which looks weird on automap.


map27: map26's harder twin. some fights were really clever and interesting, like the first archie fight, that was awesome.

i've managed to find all the secrets, but mostly just because of bruteforce sweeping. for one, the bfg is tremendously helpful in some of the upcoming fights, but the only hint is either falling down without a radsuit (they're too far) or the slightly different coloured line on the automap. i'd go for a bigger automap hint, tbh.

another secret nag - the cyb/hk horde fight in the symmetrical stairs room... clearly the secret invul is supposed to help you with the fight, but for that it'd need to be telephoned in clearly. instead, it's hidden completely, wolfenstein style (afaik). on the other hand, the fight kicks ass this way (sans invul)... perhaps it's not needed/should be changed for some weaker bonus in UV?

the other invul is probably a good idea if one doesn't fail at obtaining the RK for too long (like me). the stupid evil PE's would definitely need some invul suicide bombing.

speaking of PEs, the last huuuuuge room has just too many LS's, i think. yeah, they're supposed to fly around... but they will do that even with thinner numbers if the player decides to proceed. on te other hand they'll stall the progress for way too long if one chooses the coward way of clearing them out first (like i did in the FDA).


map28: wilou makes a WoS map, that's how this felt to me, haha. i liked playing it for the most part, but like with map27 i have a few nags about secrets.

i actually suspected there was a hidden cave in one of the lava falls that'd get me to the soulsphere, but NO WAY would i risk it without a radsuit. not worth burning myself in FDA. :P so that secret is p much a save&load thing.

and then sector 1910, with the bfg. i think it's hidden a tad too well. i mean, i pressed almost everything in the map, but i somehow missed that one wall face and it cost me the bfg. :P

oh... and the demos are identical for the most part, except in one (you'll guess which one) i die in the tiny invasion arena. the final parts just got too ridiculous (WITHOUT THE BFG *HINT HINT*). it took perhaps not the best shot, or just one of the stronger monsters moving unfavourably... and suddenly there was no way for me to survive with just shooting ssg. cornered too hard. i don't even blame the barons and revs, it's the pigs who are fat and terrible infighters and too great space blockers, heh.


map29: this was great and nasty and evil and stuff. just two things:

is one of the secrets really av-jump only? with monsters inside, but being in a rather nonobvious location for such a setup? me not like. :/

and then the fight i died in (and just reloaded to replay the fight and continue, because i loved the explorative feel of the FDA). the chainers after leaving the YK area... they're just such a dick move, i mean the one that ports behind you. he blocked me entirely and because i had the worst gun possible drawn, i died with no chance to react. it could be imps teleporting to block the sideways and chainers just staying in the middle and it'd still remain an interesting fight, this way it takes too much preknowledge or luck for my taste.

the other fights i could withstand and they were cool challenge. a really cool map, i enjoyed the cliff/imp part especially, hah.


map30: skipped, because i played it a bunch of times before.

[darkreaver]

dew said:

map29: blablabla

I can agree on all your points. I`ll check if someone else comes up with some more stuff to consider, then I`ll make the final changes before the deadline.

Thanks =)

[hawkwind]

map 32 ...

1. Just by bumping up against line 2691, the player can get the soulsphere.
2. Line 1257 could be flagged "secret" and lines behind "hidden".
3. Line 5606 could be flagged "secret" and lines behind "hidden".
4. This level uses the switch texture SW1/2DIRT. Notice how the "dirt" part of the texture "moves" when using said switch. This can be easily fixed by modifying the TEXTURE1 lump.

map 16 ...

1. Misaligned texture on lines 2159, 2139, 3433 and other similar areas - check texture STONE2B3.
2. Textures on lines 7107/7108 and 7105/7106 don't make sense - crates.
3. Line 5069 could be flagged "secret".
4. Mirror textures for MIDVINEB/C not used.
which brings me to
5. There is no mirror for the textures MIDVINED and MIDVINEA.

[glenzinho]

Just finished CC4 and I have to say it's fucking amazing!!!
I just have one question about MAP30:

Spoiler

I play with mouselook/aim on all of time, so when I defeated the Icon it seemed a little easy to me... how is the Icon battle supposed to go?

[Joshy]

glenzinho said:

Just finished CC4 and I have to say it's fucking amazing!!!
I just have one question about MAP30:

Spoiler

I play with mouselook/aim on all of time, so when I defeated the Icon it seemed a little easy to me... how is the Icon battle supposed to go?

It depends on where you were standing and shooting.

Spoiler

You're not supposed to shoot with mouselook, but do it old-fashioned, ala doom2. Go into the arena, press the button where the two cybers are, and you'll see a lowered platform, get onto it and shoot whenever you can as the platform rises as soon as you get onto it. Hope that makes sense.

Perhaps there could be a quick fix to prevent mouselook rocketing? Bars on both sides.

[hawkwind]

map 17 ...

1. Line 12352 needs a Y offset of 8 to match line 29.
2. Wrong ceiling flat for sector 118 - should be TLITEVB.
3. IMO ALLBLAKF would look better for the ceilings of sector 137, 1364 and 1924 - doors.
4. Compare the flats TLITEVR with TLITEVRO and TLITEVB with TLITEVBO. It will be noticed that the background grey part of the flats do not match up, so will not tile quite correctly.
5. Not sure why lines 3932, 498 etc. etc. were blocking lines ???
6. Wrong ceiling flat for sector 1303 - should be FLOOR6_1.
7. Ceilings of sectors 1721>1726 could have used linetype 261 - ceiling brightness. Same for equivalent blue torches.
8. Pickups at sectors 1863 and 1864 render partly into the wall.
9. Drag T614 and T615 (caco's) fully into sector 1677. They are extending into sector 1679. They can be easily seen when looking along line 8860 and can be easily killed even before sector 1680 has opened.
10. Lines 11842, 11840, 12466 and 12465 should be lower unpegged - doortrak.

map 32 ( again) ...

Notice that lines 5372 and 5366 only use MIDBARS1 on the front sidedefs. These lines are also not impassible or block monster. Just looks odd to me. IMO these should have the texture on both sides of the line and be impassible OR just delete MIDBARS1 from the lines altogether.

map 14 (again) ...

Notice that MIDRAIL1 is only on the back-sidedef of line 1009. Why not instead delete this texture from said line, make a new line between lines 1009 and have MIDRAIL on both sidedefs of the new line ? Looks so much better.

[blob1024]

map 16:

-building "number II" on the far west of the map
-the floor texture on the little steps outside are misaligned I guess, cant be more precise, due to my incompetence in such matters

i hope it was of help neverthless

It can be seen easily by standing in front of the splatted-cacodemo wall texture outside of the "II" building

[j4rio]

Here are all my fdas, all play back with first version.

http://filesmelt.com/dl/c4fda-j4.zip

[SFoZ911]

Map 18 was really impressive city level.

[hawkwind]

... while on the subject ...

map 18 ...

1. MIDRAIL1 does not match up on both sides of lines 369, 370, 365, 366 and although it probably wont be noticed, line 367, 10636.
2. Suggest changing the ceiling flat of sectors 963 and 966 to something else, maybe cratop1 ot flat19.
3. Drag T158 a bit further west - he is too easy to kill after opening door sector 404.
4. Check all GRAY_N66 textures around sector 1800 for x alignments.
5. I'm wondering if it is worth having the lines that raise the elaborate bridges block monster. I experienced a spectre "pop up" in my face at sector 837. I'm also
wondering if many of the monster blocking lines can be removed elsewhere.
6. Note that STONE9 is used on line 10170, STEP3 on line 1579 but line uses 5676 uses SPACEW6. Occurs elsewhere.
7. Line 1816 could have been flagged "secret".
8. "Bad" switch texture sw1/2dirt used on line 1496. See my comment for map 32 point 4.
9. Sectors 755 and 1329 could have been fake sectors.
10. Type on line 5198 could have been a ceiling raise type instead of a door - note sector 900.
11. Ceiling of sector 1300 might look better with FLAT20.
12. Suggest removing the impassible flag from line 7762.
13. Note that line 16138 is a "brighter" step than the others. I'm wondering if removing the lower unpeg flag will fix ?

[hawkwind]

map 19 ...

1. Wrong ceiling height for sector 738. Should be 200.
2. While sector 749 is a secret, it should still do damage. Change its sector type to 192 - OR - remove lava from sector 749.
3. Sectors 759, 760, 761 etc. should have been fake sectors - Boom. Easily rectified by just giving line 5184 linetype 242 and tagged # 17. At present causes a problem with Risen3D.
4. Sector 348 should have a ceiling height of 192. The current height of 128 upsets the nodes builder in Risen3D and causes the ceiling flat to render on line 2998.
5. Optional - Was the animated texture on line 1028 still supposed to be seen on the floor when sectors 176/177 have lowered ? If not fake sectors will hide it.

... just realised I could have added this to my previous post, sorry.

map 20 ...

1. The texture on lines 5778, 945 etc. can be seen in-game.
2. Lines 2334, 17205, 11669, 1599, 7900 could be flagged "secret".
3. Delete lines 6259, 7520 and 18693. They are assigned to the wrong sector and upset the nodes builder in Risen3D ( maybe other ports as well ) and cause a render glitch in the floor of sector 681 as a result.
4. COMPYEL on lines 7430, 7429 etc. not aligned, hence do not tile correctly.
5. IMO, sectors 599/600 should have had the floor flat FLOOR0_3.
6. KS_SINS2 does not aligned correctly at vertices 10095, 10410, 13601 and 12823. Does sector 1448 need a ceiling height of 495 ? Upper textures on lines 16230 and 16208 also are scrolling and KS_SINS2 also renders into the floor of sector 1433/1448.
7. Line 5826 could use a Y alignment.
8. Sectors 424 would look better with a ceiling height of 296, to match sector 671 and to reduce a skywall issue where sector 533 meets sector 622 ( maybe this area could be reworked a little ).

[Keith111316]

Since main focus seems to be on bugs, but play is just as important, here are gameplay suggestions that seem popular so far, and haven't received attention:

Map03 bit brighter outdoor portion

Map07 more ammo early on

Map08 a bit more ammo, progression a bit clearer

Map11 have plasma non secret by end

Map12 better traps, more ammo, maybe a bit mote work on level in general; increase variety

Map15 make less cramped, reduce any detail interference with gameplay

Map19 ease traps a bit, esp. Archvile

Map 25 more difficult, more interesting fights

[Use]

Everyone, pay attention to Brandon so he goes away.

[Keith111316]

Missed one:

Map24 brighten it a bit, ease the Archvile trap

Again these are just the criticisms that look to be more or less universal with most players, thus the ones that really deserve tweaks, IMO.

[Nevanos]

Just finished this and have to say, well done everyone on this project and thanks for making this my favourite megawad as of yet.

Tried map19 again and nope, it killed the hell out of me this time. Not as easy as I remembered. :<

[hawkwind]

map 21 ...

1. KS_STWI6 on lines 5157, 5158, 5159, 5161, 5162, 4951 render massively into the floor in software renderers. I'm surprised this wasn't picked up by the testing team. Just give sector 459 a brightness level between 145 and 159. Also note that one set of 3 lines renders at a different height than the other three. Compare the Y offset of lines 5159 and 5161.
2. KS_GRI6 is not rendering on all the sidedefs of lines 3345, 3195, 3329 and 3333. To fix just give all these lines an X offset of 0.
3. Wrong ceiling flat for sector 1062 - should be KS_KF043.
4. I thought an invulnerability sphere, at least for easy skill, would be good for sector 1002 ( or pick up one just before using the teleport at sector 996.
5. Check X offset of KS_STWI5 at vertices 1265, 1758,1757, 2143, 1016, 7825, 7824, 1316 etc. etc. They need fixing.
6. Error with fake ceilings. Sector 727 should have had a ceiling of 872, not 840. Exhibits HOM.
7. KS_GRI8 not rendering on sector 835's side. It obviously needs a different Y offset to sector 718's side because the floor heights are different.
8. Another error with fake ceilings. Sector 898 should have a ceiling height of 4312. It exhbits HOM.If wanting sector 1034 to not pulsate, linetype 261 - ceiling brightness should be used.
9. Check X alignment of KS_DARW1 around sector 928.
10. HOM in floor of sector 1199. This should be a fake sector and the correct floor flat used.
11. Ceilings of sectors 90, 94 etc. would look better with KS_KF042.
12. Another error with fake ceilings. Sector 1070 should have a floor -176. It exhbits small HOM in affected sectors.
13. Sectors 1074 and 1077 needs a floor/ceiling height of 333. See sectors 92/1071. A consequence is that KS_GRI2 does not get rendered on line 11881.
14. Just before exiting the level a "blue key" shows on line 12341, but only on 1 side of the line.
15. Render bug in prboom+ when the player is near sector 910.
16. Risen3D bug at sector 924. If I can work out how to fix this, while keeping Boom compatibility, I'll mention it.

[Anima Zero]

One thing I remembered while playing this multiplayer on a Skulltag server...

On map 32, there were no weapons on the level aside from the ones dropped by enemies. Methinks the weapons were set to appear in single player only or something because it was just fine on every other map there.

Granted, this was on Skulltag and not something like PRBoom/GLBoom, but the multiplayer issue should be consistent in every port and oughta be fixed before this Thursday ;D.

Awesome job on this megawad by the way. Another fine showing by everyone involved!

[Aleaver]

I would like to say that Im deeply sorry for Map 17 (Yes that was me) not being up to Par with the rest of the project. At the time I was building it, no one said anything bad about the map in terms of how it looked and so on..Now Im not blaming anyone but me here so Im pointing my own finger at me on this one. I thought I had a cool idea not a disaster waiting to happen. I liked the Idea of splitting the map in half right down the middle (or as close as I could anyway) thus the colors red on one side blue on the other..I relaize now that I may have taken it too far.

[j4rio]

I thought it wasn't that bad, but anybody should take my view on it with grain of salt, because I didn't find any map I downright couldn't enjoy. Add some BFG somewhere halfway through, load with cells and it'll be fun imo.