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ella guro
Junior Member


Posts: 181
Registered: 08-12


hey everyone!

i've been lurking around this community since probably about 2000, but i never seriously considered making maps until now. several of my friends are game developers and i'd considered going down that route, but i came back to Doom after realizing that i'm really just interested in the visual/architectural/mood side of things. and i feel like there's a lot that's still possible in the Doom engine that hasn't been done yet, even with a billion wads out there.

yesterday i found out and played a bit of Wonderland (http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?id=16675), and even though the actual gameplay is a total mess, i was really blown away by a lot of the areas in it. particularly the 4th map, with the honeycomb-like patterns pictured here:

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/4026/69273405.png

i guess i've been playing megawads for years and i've grown really bored of the same old hyper-detailed tech base or hell styled stuff, even when it is well designed. i'm much more interested in maps that create a distinctive mood. two other examples that come to mind are Requiem level 21 ("Den of the Skull"), or Alien Vendetta level 31 ("Killer Colours")

does anyone have recommendations on what kind of stuff like this there is out there? i'm mostly asking because i want to take as many of these ideas as i can find and use them towards whatever maps i end up making. they don't necessarily have to be fun maps to play, or even necessarily good, just have unique or interesting ideas.

thanks, everyone! happy Dooming!

Old Post 08-12-12 01:32 #
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Ribbiks
Senior Member


Posts: 1316
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a few wads that come to mind when I think of awesome architecture / atmosphere:

sunder
the deus vult wads
unloved

I'm also a fan of the 'void' type areas with nice usage of darkness like in that screenshot you posted. Reminds me of a lot of the maps in tom19, like this one:

http://i.imgur.com/3gWCI.jpg

Old Post 08-12-12 01:57 #
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schwerpunk
Senior Member


Posts: 2067
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Great post. Downloading this Wonderland WAD now.

I've been thinking along similar lines lately. I'm just about to finish my first real map which, in truth, is pretty aesthetically standard.
About three quarters of the way through it occurred to me how strange it is how I'm striving for realism -- restraining myself, really -- when everything I've been learning about scripting and modding just screams for some reality-shattering, perceptually challenging mind-fuckery.

Welcome aboard, by the way. Maybe we can expect a small concept map from you sometime in the future? It sounds like you've got some ideas worth sharing. [:

Old Post 08-12-12 02:00 #
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Grazza
Let's try Caesium


Posts: 12469
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You could try looking at the period from late 1995 to 1997 for such maps. People tended to be less inhibited then, and there were more surreal maps.

Here are a few links:
Hacx
Wheel of Time (esp. map04)
The Ana's Dream
System Vices
Skyewood
Biotech
Nemisis experiment (unfinished, but map02 is amazing)
Zombie Heart of Death
Pinball Dreams
Surreal2 (if only for the gas station in the middle of nowhere)

I can probably think of many others, but that should be a good start.

Old Post 08-12-12 02:11 #
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chopkinsca
Nothing


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*self promotes*
I like to think some of my mapping is maybe, slightly unorthodox.

(Click the thumbnail)
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/boatshow515/th_mipples.png

Old Post 08-12-12 02:16 #
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valkiriforce
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Posts: 986
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Well if you don't mind old maps Enigma by Jim Flynn is really cool. Granted they aren't up to par being 90's maps and all, but the levels are just...funky. In a good way. I especially love those sky teleports; they work especially well with the orange sky texture. I did record playing this episode if you want to catch a preview of what the levels look like: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5EFB3249DC948F6F

Old Post 08-12-12 02:33 #
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marver0PS
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one of the wads with interesting architecture is Hell Ground
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?id=15919

Old Post 08-12-12 02:40 #
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ella guro
Junior Member


Posts: 181
Registered: 08-12


long-ass reply in 3, 2, 1...


Ribbiks said:
a few wads that come to mind when I think of awesome architecture / atmosphere:

sunder
the deus vult wads
unloved

I'm also a fan of the 'void' type areas with nice usage of darkness like in that screenshot you posted. Reminds me of a lot of the maps in tom19, like this one:

http://i.imgur.com/3gWCI.jpg



the deus vult maps i've played are way too obsessively detail-oriented for me. i tend to prefer stuff on the simpler side, that emphasizes a few visually-interesting things instead of a bunch. i'll check out those other ones, though. i agree that "void" style maps are great, that's the kind of stuff i like.


schwerpunk said:
Great post. Downloading this Wonderland WAD now.

I've been thinking along similar lines lately. I'm just about to finish my first real map which, in truth, is pretty aesthetically standard.
About three quarters of the way through it occurred to me how strange it is how I'm striving for realism -- restraining myself, really -- when everything I've been learning about scripting and modding just screams for some reality-shattering, perceptually challenging mind-fuckery.



the same thing has been happening for me too. for years i just wanted to be able to make "nostalgic" style maps, and that's what i was mostly into playing. but i think i've realized that most of that nostalgia is a longing for the sort of feelings i had when first playing Doom, when everything was strange and new. so i'm much interested in trying to evoke that feeling of newness rather than directly imitating the style of the original.


schwerpunk said:
Welcome aboard, by the way. Maybe we can expect a small concept map from you sometime in the future? It sounds like you've got some ideas worth sharing. [:



thanks! i hope so :)


Grazza said:
You could try looking at the period from late 1995 to 1997 for such maps. People tended to be less inhibited then, and there were more surreal maps.

Here are a few links:

...



woo, thanks for all of these! 1995-1997 stuff does seem to be the most up my alley (Requiem is probably my favorite wad i've played so far), because a lot of it emphasizes ideas over sheer detail. i'll give these all a shot.


chopkinsca said:
*self promotes*
I like to think some of my mapping is maybe, slightly unorthodox.

(Click the thumbnail)
http://i860.photobucket.com/albums/ab165/boatshow515/th_mipples.png



looks pretty neat! hope to see more of this


valkiriforce said:
Well if you don't mind old maps Enigma by Jim Flynn is really cool. Granted they aren't up to par being 90's maps and all, but the levels are just...funky. In a good way. I especially love those sky teleports; they work especially well with the orange sky texture. I did record playing this episode if you want to catch a preview of what the levels look like: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5EFB3249DC948F6F


i had heard of Enigma, but i hadn't looked into it yet. looks pretty cool.

by the way, i like a lot of your Reverie stuff that i've seen. in particular this area made an impression on me:

http://i.imgur.com/zPQyC.jpg


marver0PS said:
one of the wads with interesting architecture is Hell Ground
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?id=15919



thanks, will check it out.

Old Post 08-12-12 03:47 #
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NaturalTvventy
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Posts: 822
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Xaser's lost episode!

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?id=15559

Old Post 08-12-12 03:48 #
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kmxexii
Senior Member


Posts: 1193
Registered: 06-10


STRAIN MAP28, just be careful if you idclev, it's a doozy

Old Post 08-12-12 03:50 #
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ella guro
Junior Member


Posts: 181
Registered: 08-12



NaturalTvventy said:
Xaser's lost episode!

http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/?id=15559



played this briefly and it looks pretty darn cool! especially the first level.

Old Post 08-12-12 04:23 #
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Grazza
Let's try Caesium


Posts: 12469
Registered: 07-02



ella guro said:
i agree that "void" style maps are great, that's the kind of stuff i like.
In that case, add Null Space to the list, and definitely look at Wheel of Time map04 (which I mentioned earlier). Also, if you are happy to use Zdoom, take a look at Cyb's Void.

Old Post 08-12-12 04:29 #
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Pottus
Forum Regular


Posts: 802
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One of my first maps a few years ago I used excessive curves it looks kinda fractal like lol.

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/7584/dhead.jpg

Old Post 08-12-12 05:19 #
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Memfis
Forum Spammer


Posts: 5718
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Some suggestions:
Gravity, especially map02
Balls
Green Goddess
Istanbul
Those Before Me
Whisper In Time

Old Post 08-12-12 12:15 #
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Cacatou
Member


Posts: 309
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Hell Revealed MAP 26 is an obvious choice.

Old Post 08-12-12 21:08 #
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Scypek2
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Posts: 597
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abraxas and MappingWhileHighOnMountainDew from doomworld mega project.

Old Post 08-12-12 22:39 #
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ella guro
Junior Member


Posts: 181
Registered: 08-12



Cacatou said:
Hell Revealed MAP 26 is an obvious choice.


from looking at youtube, it looks like it (never played far into HR). i like it when they put weird levels are put as non-secret levels in the middle of more conventional megawads. i was playing Memento Mori Map 5 recently and that sort of made me think of that as well.

thanks for all the suggestions, everybody! i'll be posting if it i come up with any interesting level design experiments of my own.

Old Post 08-12-12 23:15 #
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Gez
Why don't I have a custom title by now?!


Posts: 11233
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Grazza said:
In that case, add Null Space to the list, and definitely look at Wheel of Time map04 (which I mentioned earlier). Also, if you are happy to use Zdoom, take a look at Cyb's Void.

Null Space also had a deleted scene which exists for both Doom II and Hexen. And there's a Null Space Junior too.

For ZDoom mods, I'd also suggest Oniria and sequel.

Old Post 08-13-12 00:12 #
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kmxexii
Senior Member


Posts: 1193
Registered: 06-10


Try MAP09, 11, 15, and 26 of A.L.T..

__________________
Doomed: WAD Reviews (a blog)

Old Post 08-13-12 00:33 #
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gemini09
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Posts: 1202
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I have a map that might fit the bill of being unique and surreal. If you search for Gem04 on the /idgames archive, you will find it.

I went and played Memento Mori map05. It was fun, but I wouldn't say it stands out in any way...

I also played through map32. Man, was that a great map! The map is so interactive, there is always something happening in the immediate vicinity, and the map flows about 85% naturally - it happened that I had no idea what to do next, but that's no big deal. The visuals are in the backseat and the gameplay is in the front, and it was really a fun and involving map - monster placement was really cool too, such as in that one tunnel you return to and expect to simply walk out, and are faced with Demons coming your way.

It was by Mark Klem! I have his map09 from MM2 in memory, but I didn't think much of that one... I was surprised to see the name! Great map - and of course music, Mark :)

Old Post 08-13-12 15:10 #
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ella guro
Junior Member


Posts: 181
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gemini09 said:
[B]I have a map that might fit the bill of being unique and surreal. If you search for Gem04 on the /idgames archive, you will find it.

I went and played Memento Mori map05. It was fun, but I wouldn't say it stands out in any way...


i mostly meant some of the texturing and room shapes are kind of weird in map 5. also there are those guys who are frozen and then come to life later on in the level. but i'll admit to not having played much of MM/MM2 (i know...blasphemy). i've just warped around both and played bits of various levels. there are quite a few of levels in them that look pretty neat, but the whole thing seems a little too brown and plain for me to get into. i'm really weird and picky about the level of detail i like in levels - it has to be "just right". i guess i should stop expecting everything to be Requiem or Alien Vendetta.

i'll check out your map, and Map 32.

Old Post 08-13-12 21:13 #
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valkiriforce
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ella guro said:
by the way, i like a lot of your Reverie stuff that i've seen.

Thank you. :) If you liked that then you might find Eternally Yours interesting.

Old Post 08-14-12 17:47 #
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Joshy
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Pardon for the self-promotion, but Speed of Doom has some unique, maybe a little bit surreal, particularly Map27 and Map28. Map26, 29 and 31 is another. Darkwave0000's a natural when it comes to nicely shaped architectures. Perhaps the catch with these maps is that they're quite challenging maps, and could be frustrating for some to play through.

EDIT: If you're a fan of honeycomb patterns, you should check out Map24 too.

Last edited by Joshy on 08-15-12 at 11:10

Old Post 08-15-12 09:56 #
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Hellbent
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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Y8WoJeZ-J4c/TQb2jyq7RoI/AAAAAAAAB8o/blFBIw03shU/s640/Screenshot_Doom_20101213_232431.png Sadly I cannot remember the name of the wad, but I sure do love this shot.

Old Post 08-16-12 15:41 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Pottus said:
One of my first maps a few years ago I used excessive curves it looks kinda fractal like lol.
Can I have your computer plz? If I make a map up to 20k sidedefs, it takes 15 seconds for the map to save or go into 3d mode (and I save often + always before going into 3d mode just in case it crashes).

Old Post 08-16-12 16:46 #
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Snakes
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Hellbent said:
Sadly I cannot remember the name of the wad, but I sure do love this shot.

Yesterday's Nightmare

Beautiful, but it's kind of a drag to play.

@OP: Anything by Xaser or Thomas van der Velden comes to mind. They're two of the most imaginative Doomers to ever grace the scene.

Old Post 08-16-12 16:50 #
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Doomhuntress
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while not being the more architecturally interesting mapset, The Talosian Incident is a favorite atmospheric wad of mine. it's unique that it's an quite old mapset ('97) which features progression throughout the levels, i.e. when you exit a level you enter the another one in a believable way as opposed to being thrown around hither and dither from point A to B to C and so on.

Happy Time Circus 2 is a quite surreal ZDoom wad. you're alone in an abandoned village taking over by evil clown spirits from the clown dimension, and you have to close the gate to said dimension to stop the monsters from getting out into the real world. it features some cool, new weapons like the gut flinger, which quite literally shoots out guts onto the enemies. most of the new weapons uses clown spirits as ammunition, which is gathered from killing the enemies, mostly. but what really makes this mod so good is the fact that it's surreal and otherworldly, sometimes frightening, but it doesn't rely on cheap scares like most horror does nowadays, but it feels like heightened Doom gameplay, for lack of a better term, mixed with surreal glowing "holes" that leaks the clown dimension into the real world... it's hard for me to explain it's best experienced for oneself, really.

Old Post 08-16-12 20:03 #
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Pirx
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where are those experimental maps by gggmork? haven't seen something that weird in doom.

Old Post 08-16-12 21:37 #
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ella guro
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Pirx said:
where are those experimental maps by gggmork? haven't seen something that weird in doom.


i downloaded one of the wads in this thread and i literally gasped. this is exactly the kind of stuff i'm looking for. i'm totally stealing some of these ideas.

Old Post 08-17-12 10:29 #
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Pirx
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ella guro said:


i downloaded one of the wads in this thread and i literally gasped. this is exactly the kind of stuff i'm looking for. i'm totally stealing some of these ideas.




ah, the ggg12unfin maps. thank you. i found that listing, but overlooked the actual thread.

great if you want to use those designs. i love them and would have used them myself if i had more time for mapping. especially something with the "soul wall" with the moving faces, i remember how i found that one when i played 3em3 for the first time and looked at it for minutes ;)

Old Post 08-18-12 18:24 #
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