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ella guro
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edit: this project has been revised a bit

imagine a world where Doom 2 was never released, and the levels never saw the light of day. the only bit of information that ever saw the light of day were the titles of the 30 maps, cryptic as can be. what kind of map would "The Crusher" be, or "'O' of Destruction!"? who knows?

the idea of this project to take a map from Doom 2 and make a new version of it, based on how you interpret the name of the level. we will be using the vanilla Doom 2 engine with the stock textures and monsters (except for this zip containing 4 waterfall and 4 mudfall textures. you can also use your own music!). it doesn't have to look or feel like the original map at all - maps that directly imitate the originals are actually highly discouraged, and creativity with how you interpret the title is highly encouraged. but it does have to look like a level that would have that title. for example: if you pick "'O' of Destruction!", there'd better be some kind of O of Destruction in the map!

the 2 secret level maps are wildcards. instead of the two Wolfenstein maps, you can make a version of whatever Doom PWAD map you'd like, based on the title. the same rules apply here as with the rest of the maps. (edit: unless someone really really wants to make a Wolfenstein map. i always thought the original secret maps are kind of a dumb gimmick though, and think it would be cool to try something else)

as far as claiming a map goes - i'm limiting this to two maps per person for the time being, so no one gets over-committed. if you really really want a particular map, you can also claim a map that someone else has already claimed. to decide what makes it in the final wad, we'll have a vote. this isn't to exclude anyone, it's just meant as a motivator to make people make good maps (and allow people to make a map they really want to make).

i'm claiming The Pit right now, if no one has any objections. i'm somewhat of a newb mapper for Doom (though i've done maps for other games), so we'll see what i can come up with!

8/29: the project is officially FULL! but you can still do a map that's claimed and we'll have a vote at the end. it's also likely that at least a few people will inevitably drop their choices, as is the case with most projects.

Level 1: Entryway - Processingcontrol updated version: http://www.mediafire.com/?6omc5opzw6dtx0k
Level 2: Underhalls - _bruce_ version .004: http://speedy.sh/YtpZG/uh34.rar
Level 3: The Gantlet - st.alfonzo
Level 4: The Focus - Antroid (i think?) newest version: http://www.mediafire.com/?b13rsv8vvvb4743
Level 5: The Waste Tunnels - an_mutt basically done: http://www.mediafire.com/?1iarpw1hycf1po7
Level 6: The Crusher - purist
Level 7: Dead Simple - Eris Falling V3.3.6 http://www.mediafire.com/?tft6djylf211qlw
Level 8: Tricks and Traps - TheMionicDonut
Level 9: The Pit - tentatively being held while we see who's working on
Level 10: Refueling Base - Katamori
Level 11: 'O' of Destruction! - Eregore about 95% finished http://www.mediafire.com/?q2amh0i251j7c3y
Level 12: The Factory - GreyGhost
Level 13: Downtown - glenzinho - version 1.0 http://www.mediafire.com/?5wlh8dt7z6kgqsh
Level 14: The Inmost Dens - Phobus
Level 15: Industrial Zone - cannonball first version: http://www.mediafire.com/?pu6a55gvxq6yses
Level 16: Suburbs - ShadesMaster
Level 17: Tenements- an_mutt
Level 18: The Courtyard - Kongming maybe final: http://www.mediafire.com/?f3n3kynb3n3tzgw
Level 19: The Citadel - scifista42
Level 20: Gotcha! - Ribbiks
Level 21: Nirvana - schwerpunk
Level 22: The Catacombs - Megalyth
Level 23: Barrels o' Fun - Vaporizer
Level 24: The Chasm - Hellbent
Level 25: Bloodfalls - ella guro
Level 26: The Abandoned Mines - Olympus first version: http://www.mediafire.com/?agq73tjnub3lrjd
Level 27: Monster Condo - printz
Level 28: The Spirit World - Obsidian
Level 29: The Living End - Antroid
Level 30: Icon of Sin - ComicMischief
Level 31: Wolfenstein - Xaser
Level 32: Grosse - Capellan

creativity and imagination with how you interpret the title is highly encouraged!

vanilla Doom 2 wads that use the original gfx and follow the progression (subterranean/city/hell) of the original are a dime a dozen. let's make this one something different, and special :)!

for information on vanilla doom limitations and mapping tricks, consult this thread. there's also a plugin called "Visplane Explorer" on the new version of Doom Builder. more info here. Chocorenderlimits is also apparently a very helpful tool for spotting potential map errors.

the deadline is tentatively set to sometime before the end of the year. we'll see how things are going in a few months, though. i want to make sure everyone takes their time and make their maps the best they can :)

updated (8/26): two requirements for anyone making a map in this project

1. make sure your map is possible from a pistol start
2. no requiring rocket/archvile jumps or any other similarly frustrating gimmick to beat a level.

more to come tomorrow.

if you have any questions or would like to claim a map, just let me know in the thread, or send me a pm.

Last edited by ella guro on 10-22-12 at 07:41

Old Post 08-16-12 06:21 #
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Captain Ventris
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I'm no mapper, but this certainly sounds like a really cool idea for a project. The idea is interesting and flexible enough to avoid being a gimmick wad.

Old Post 08-16-12 07:00 #
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kildeth
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I think the Final Doom IWADs should be included.

Old Post 08-16-12 08:49 #
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ella guro
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kildeth said:
I think the Final Doom IWADs should be included.


you're probably right. there's no real reason to exclude them, if only for more choices. what i've seen of Evilution struck me as kind of boring, so i'm sure i'll have a lot of choices there! we'll say they're included.

Old Post 08-16-12 09:32 #
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Eris Falling
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ella guro said:


you're probably right. there's no real reason to exclude them, if only for more choices. what i've seen of Evilution struck me as kind of boring, so i'm sure i'll have a lot of choices there! we'll say they're included.



Ballistyx, Heck, Deepest Reaches. Just throwing a few out there.

Old Post 08-16-12 09:36 #
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GreyGhost
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"Doom - the way you think it should have been", I like the idea. Icon of Sin could do with a more interesting boss battle.

Old Post 08-16-12 09:59 #
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_bruce_
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Very nice - I'm in.

Old Post 08-16-12 13:35 #
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scifista42
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I am interested in this idea. The map I hate the most is Doom 2 MAP19 : The Citadel. Here might be a little problem:


ella guro said:
...remake it as what you'd hoped that map would be, based on the name.


MAP19 already IS what I would hope it to be, based on the name. The main reason why I hate this map is that I was never able to complete it without jumping, cheating or "fake wallrunning" past blue torches in water. It's too complicated.

Anyway, if this is going to be a community project, I pick MAP19.

Old Post 08-16-12 13:47 #
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Pavera
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Cue megawad of MAP24 remakes.

Old Post 08-16-12 14:04 #
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ellmo
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Pavera said:
Cue megawad of E2M9 remakes.

Fixed that for you ;)

Old Post 08-16-12 15:16 #
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Hellbent
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Glad you made this thread, ella. Your project description is a little different than what I thought you had in mind. My interpretation was to edit existing Iwad maps to make them more to our liking rather than remaking them from scratch. But it's generally frowned upon (and not 'legal') to release modified Iwad maps (or is it?). Wraith made Wonderful Doom from scratch, but the results were clearly Iwad maps tweaked.

I can't think what e4m4 is called, but regardless of whether it lives up to its name or not, the map was a disappointment coming in at the middle of the episode. Basically I would make e4m4 bigger and more sinister. As Myk pointed out in another thread, e4m4 should be in the e4m1 slot and e4m1 should take e4m4 place. In that scenario I would leave e4m4 alone and make e4m1 bigger.

Are you planning on compiling the submissions for this project into a single megawad? Is that why you feel like the submissions should either all be doom 1 or doom 2? When you say 'remake' do you mean make a new map from scratch, or do you mean editing an existing map?

One last thing: if I understand your project description properly, I would remove the stipulation that you should only remake maps you did not like. The main thing to your project idea seems to be making maps to fit the name. Whether you liked a map or not seems trivial, aside from being a point of motivation for one to remake the map. In this case, even though I love E3M4 "House of Pain" and E2M2 "Containment Area" it would be fun to remake those map. For me, if I'd remake them, I'd prefer to have them be for Doom 1, but it makes sense if we're going to mix doom 1 and doom2 and Final Doom maps into one megawad the megawad should be for doom 2. Of course, if your project is moar ambitious, you could have one wad be a collection of remade doom 1 maps and another wad a collection of doom 2/Final Doom maps.

Old Post 08-16-12 15:23 #
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Hellbent
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ellmo said:

Cue megawad of E2M9 remakes.

Well this is interesting. Not only are both of those maps popular choices for being unliked maps, but both of their names are really provocative. I would definitely pick fortress of mystery to be my first map pick. A megawad of fortresses of mystery would not a bad thing be.

Old Post 08-16-12 15:26 #
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printz
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Bleah, let's see you manage to top the quality of E2M9. If you make it anything else than a shock ambush map of high-level monsters, you're not succeeding.

__________________
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Old Post 08-16-12 15:38 #
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Eris Falling
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printz said:
Bleah, let's see you manage to top the quality of E2M9. If you make it anything else than a shock ambush map of high-level monsters, you're not succeeding.


Fortress of Mystery, contrary to it's name had no mystery. It, like a lot of Sandy's maps looks like it was thrown together in about 20 minutes. So was MAP21.

If I could contribute to this project I would, but I have no experience in Doom mapping (yet), only DN3D.

Old Post 08-16-12 15:43 #
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Memfis
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Hellbent said:
Wraith made Wonderful Doom from scratch, but the results were clearly Iwad maps tweaked.

Hehe, this doesn't make sense...

Old Post 08-16-12 16:08 #
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Hellbent
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Memfis said:

Hehe, this doesn't make sense...

Don't get technical on me you.. you... whatever it is your avatar says you are. If you've played Wonderful Doom, you probably know what I mean.

Old Post 08-16-12 16:16 #
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Captain Ventris
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GreyGhost said:
"Doom - the way you think it should have been"


"Doom the Way iD Should Have Did"

Old Post 08-16-12 16:46 #
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Pirx
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let's see... a "chasm" without catwalks? :p

Old Post 08-16-12 21:49 #
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Scypek2
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Nice idea, I will probably do something for it. Inmost dens, perhaps? I think I have a nice idea for the fortress of mystery, too...

Old Post 08-16-12 22:40 #
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Hellbent
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Captain Ventris said:


"Doom the Way iD Should Have Did"

FTFY

DtWISH

Old Post 08-16-12 23:30 #
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Obsidian
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Dibs on MAP28?

Old Post 08-17-12 00:02 #
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ella guro
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Hellbent said:
Glad you made this thread, ella. Your project description is a little different than what I thought you had in mind. My interpretation was to edit existing Iwad maps to make them more to our liking rather than remaking them from scratch. But it's generally frowned upon (and not 'legal') to release modified Iwad maps (or is it?). Wraith made Wonderful Doom from scratch, but the results were clearly Iwad maps tweaked.


i'm not sure the legality is really an issue as long as it requires that you have the IWAD. i more didn't want to do that idea because i feel like it's been done many times before, and i'm kind of bored by it. i want to do something that allows people more freedom and creativity.


Hellbent said:
Are you planning on compiling the submissions for this project into a single megawad? Is that why you feel like the submissions should either all be doom 1 or doom 2? When you say 'remake' do you mean make a new map from scratch, or do you mean editing an existing map?


they should probably be put on a megawad - see below. i mean make a map from scratch.


Hellbent said:
One last thing: if I understand your project description properly, I would remove the stipulation that you should only remake maps you did not like. The main thing to your project idea seems to be making maps to fit the name. Whether you liked a map or not seems trivial, aside from being a point of motivation for one to remake the map.


i think you're absolutely right here. i got the original idea after reading the "your least favorite Doom maps" thread, but i think what i really like about it is the idea making a map off of its title. it's a good thing to have the limitation of "you must make a map that fits this name", because it grounds people's creativity a little bit, and it makes what's there feel less random.

so maybe the new idea is this: the same idea as before, except a Doom 2 megawad where people make maps to fit the titles of the first 30 original maps (regardless whether they like or hate those maps). people can make whatever they want, as long as it's vanilla Doom 2 and uses the stock textures. the title - especially the more specific titles, should be the central theme of the map, though. so if you pick "O" of Destruction, there'd better be an O of destruction. you can do pretty much whatever you want outside of that - actually, it's encouraged to be as creative as possible with the title.

the 2 secret level maps (instead of wolfenstein) can be wildcards, where people make a version of whatever Doom PWAD map they like. or they could be like WolfenDoom maps - i guess it's up to what people think.

does that sound like a good idea? are you guys still interested in it? let me know what you think

Old Post 08-17-12 00:57 #
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Hellbent
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sounds good to me. In fact, working on a fortress of mystery at the moment. Not using a mouse, though, so I have to do everything with two fingers on the trackpad. It's coming along, tho.

Old Post 08-17-12 01:37 #
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ella guro
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Hellbent said:
sounds good to me. In fact, working on a fortress of mystery at the moment. Not using a mouse, though, so I have to do everything with two fingers on the trackpad. It's coming along, tho.


i think i want to try sticking with Doom 2 wad right now, though you can certainly make a version of a Doom 1 map. if this goes somewhere and people want to do a Doom 1 wad, that's fine with me.

should i edit the thread title and first post or make a new thread? i guess this new idea is similar enough to the old one.

also, as far as claiming maps goes - it might be cool to allow multiple people to pick the same map (if they really want it) and then have a vote on which one to include. not to exclude anyone, but a little competition might motivate people to make better maps. and the extra maps can always be released separately.

Old Post 08-17-12 01:48 #
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Hellbent
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ella guro said:


i think i want to try sticking with Doom 2 wad right now, though you can certainly make a version of a Doom 1 map. if this goes somewhere and people want to do a Doom 1 wad, that's fine with me.

should i edit the thread title and first post or make a new thread? i guess this new idea is similar enough to the old one.

also, as far as claiming maps goes - it might be cool to allow multiple people to pick the same map (if they really want it) and then have a vote on which one to include. not to exclude anyone, but a little competition might motivate people to make better maps. and the extra maps can always be released separately.

I like it. :) I would edit the title of this thread and your first post to reflect the changes.

Old Post 08-17-12 01:58 #
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Xaser
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If I did this, I'd probably make Wolfenstein. Because seriously. :P

Old Post 08-17-12 03:23 #
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ella guro
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k, just updated the first post! feel free to claim a map (or two) now. just make sure it's something good :)

let me know if you guys can help come up with a decent name for this project, by the way.

edit: also marked down Obsidian and scifista42's claims. tell me if you want to change to something else.

Last edited by ella guro on 08-17-12 at 04:19

Old Post 08-17-12 04:10 #
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schwerpunk
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Amazing idea! I LOVE it! Especially considering I'm more familiar with Doom maps than Doom 2 ones, so I never really had any strong associations with the names to begin with.

I've like to claim Nirvana (MAP21), if I may. Also, is there a deadline yet?

For a name, I dunno, 'Doom in Name Only?' Kinda tongue-in-cheek; or, 'a Doom by Any Other Name,' or um, 'Nominal Doom?'

Old Post 08-17-12 04:26 #
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ella guro
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schwerpunk said:
Amazing idea! I LOVE it! Especially considering I'm more familiar with Doom maps than Doom 2 ones, so I never really had any strong associations with the names to begin with.

I've like to claim Nirvana (MAP21), if I may. Also, is there a deadline yet?



there's no deadline at the moment - i'm just gauging people's interest for now. i'll mark you down for Nirvana. i have a feeling someone else may want to do that one too :)


schwerpunk said:
For a name, I dunno, 'Doom in Name Only?' Kinda tongue-in-cheek; or, 'a Doom by Any Other Name,' or um, 'Nominal Doom?'


'Doom in Name Only' is not too bad. that sort of plays up the difference from the originals angle, which is cool. i think i want to entertain a lot of suggestions before choosing a title, though.

Old Post 08-17-12 04:32 #
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schwerpunk
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I can see why - I have a feeling this project will become very popular, very quickly.


ella guro said:
there's no deadline at the moment - i'm just gauging people's interest for now. i'll mark you down for Nirvana. i have a feeling someone else may want to do that one too :)

I'll just note here for future readers that I'm flexible with my choice. If someone else wants that spot, there are a lot of other choices that I could work with.

Also, I am a newer mapper, and not as familiar with vanilla elements. So if there's a lot of interest, I may go and gracefully bow out altogether. :)

Old Post 08-17-12 04:39 #
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