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DeathevokatioN
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The screenshots posted by Shadowman look awesome, I'll download now.

Nice post Solarn, this isn't the 1600's anymore though.

Old Post 10-08-12 18:54 #
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Gez
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Memfis said:
Unless the author clearly states his intentions, you can't judge his creations this way.

Yes we can, and I'm judging his creation as snuff porn fetishism.

The thing is that doesn't bring anything to the map. It wouldn't have been worse in any way if some standard Doom II gore had been used instead. It would have fit better with the rest of the graphics, too.

Old Post 10-08-12 18:55 #
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Solarn
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Memfis said:

I disagree. Just because the majority of the people see women and men the way you described doesn't automatically mean that the author wanted to degrade anyone. Unless the author clearly states his intentions, you can't judge his creations this way.


Yes, I can. Intent means nothing. Whether the author wanted to degrade anyone or not, he succeeded.


DeathevokatioN said:
The screenshots posted by Shadowman look awesome, I'll download now.

Nice post Solarn, this isn't the 1600's anymore though.


lol 1600's. Do you seriously think that what I'm talking about is 1600's stuff, that it doesn't still happen everywhere in Europe and America?

Old Post 10-08-12 19:01 #
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Memfis
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Just to clarify, I agree that you can form your own opinions, you can find meanings that weren't intended and vice versa. That's all fine. But you shouldn't say things like "the author degraded women with this creation" unless he clearly says that that was indeed his intention. So, feel free to share your own impressions but you should always speak for yourself only, not for the author or anyone else.

Old Post 10-08-12 19:31 #
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Shadowman
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Gez said:
============================================
If both puzzle items are in the same room and to be used at the same place; why are there two items to begin with? I searched everywhere except in the alchemy room because it seemed to me it wouldn't be there. If you need two items to open a door, it makes sense that it translates to having to conquer two different areas. The items are basically just a token of having been somewhere and done something.
============================================

Lich staff was added as a necessary thing to complete the map, and that the player had no situation when, having entered into a one-sided teleport, he would appear without the weapons. There is a lot mana in the crypt, but without the staff, it's useless.

As for women sprites - regard it as a some sort of an Easter egg. I specifically made them hi-res as Easter egg, comparing to the low-res gore, like "frank" (read - intimate) textures in NeoDoom. No-one blames NeoDoom for being a "porn-wad", right?

If the gameplay is too hard/difficult for you, you can check a video walkthrough of "The Inquisitor" here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Ua...=1&feature=plcp

Last edited by Shadowman on 10-08-12 at 21:53

Old Post 10-08-12 21:18 #
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dew
experts


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torture porn lol. at least be fucking honest and admit you want bonus points for a cheap thrill - sex&violence, maybe shock value. there's absolutely nothing artistic about it (it looks bad). if you want to keep it there, don't even try to reach for mainstream folks, because they're going to get offended. if not by the content, then by your willful (pretend) ignorance shown in this thread. you need to clearly state that your wad isn't just 18+ and NSFW, it's also offensive to common decency and you mean it and don't care. then, only then, you can say you've put up enough warning signs. you can't be misunderstood on this sort of crap, who are you kidding?

on the other side - it's kinda tame for the internet degenerate crowd, so who exactly is this aimed at? i see mostly just the local russian mob defending it. :P

Old Post 10-08-12 21:59 #
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Tarnsman
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If you're going to make nude women part of your scenery (which for the record I have no problem with - the enemy forces of any DOOM wad are at the very least evil and would probably have rape and torture on their daily schedule) don't make them super hi-res! That just makes them standout and look like they were put there purely so people would see them and act "shocked".

Old Post 10-08-12 23:55 #
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Antroid
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Memfis said:
...But you shouldn't say things like "the author degraded women with this creation" unless he clearly says that that was indeed his intention.
...


I don't intent to get involved in this discussion, but this thing i just quoted is probably the stupidest sentence i've read in the last couple of weeks. Nothing can ever be called dumb or offensive or distasteful unless the author openly says that was his intention? How often does THAT happen? An author doesn't get to tell people that his creation is amazing and meaningful and above critique, and some random unaffiliated person certainly doesn't get to do this either.

Old Post 10-09-12 00:36 #
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Harmata
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I'm judging his creation as snuff porn fetishism.

Now that's just silly. Come on people, it's like you've never seen boobs in vidiya, and these are just boobs on sticks, crucified boobs if you wish, with gore levels of Doom or Duke Nukem, but without guro.

Also, i couldn't play it because Zdoom was lagging as hell, and Skulltag didn't even start, i'm not blaming author, he said this wad is for GZDoom, right? Well i nocliped and notargeted around just to see scenery, and it was kinda disappointing, architecture is very bland, all details come from textures n sprites.

Old Post 10-09-12 05:25 #
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myk
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Memfis said:
Just to clarify, I agree that you can form your own opinions, you can find meanings that weren't intended and vice versa.
No even the author can have a clear picture of his own "true" intentions. Consciously or unconsciously, our conception of our own intentions is bundled with out drive to defend our interests or is somewhat alien due to our limited perspective of ourselves in time space. So, like Antriod noted, you usually don't get people admitting their intention had anything to do with condemnable behavior.

Don't forget also that published stuff, even for free in a hobby environment, gains social significance, where the perspectives or intentions of other people in the community also add to whether something is offensive or not. That is, an author that creates a work is supposed to be more or less aware of the effect of his work regardless of things he may be "trying to say".

Works are not released in a void and signified simply by the impressions of the author's mind. It's more like the author gives birth to a work and it starts to take a life of its own.

The author or his supporters could try to defend a work that appears to be offensive and is supposedly misinterpreted, but in this case, with the comparison Gez made of the images with more usual gory sprites, proving that this isn't at least moderately misogynistic certainly looks like an uphill battle :p

Old Post 10-09-12 06:43 #
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j4rio
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Author's intention was clearly making it more difficult and uncomfortable to play in a special way ...

... by forcing you to play his wad with a huge boner.

Old Post 10-09-12 09:45 #
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Shadowman
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If you hate hi-res sprites of tortured women see low-res sprites in the new version of the wad and enjoy it!

Link to the wad updated:
http://rghost.ru/40827303

A screenshot:
http://postimage.org/image/v1tlpfl17/

How can I replace the wad's archive in "incoming"?

Old Post 10-09-12 10:28 #
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myk
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The usual way is to upload the zip and say where to update in the "Update to" line on top of the text file. Otherwise, you can instead or also place a text file named "WAD Zip name".msg in incoming, saying that the upload replaces the earlier file. The new upload can use the same name as the first upload or a new one, that's up to you.

Old Post 10-09-12 10:35 #
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Shadowman
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Done.
I put in "incoming" inqstr1.zip, inqstr1.txt and inqstr1.msg.txt with comments.

Old Post 10-09-12 11:19 #
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Antroid
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Shadowman said:
If you hate hi-res sprites of tortured women see low-res sprites in the new version of the wad and enjoy it!



Looking at the screenshot, this seems much better! My biggest gripe was in fact the way those images stood out among the environment. I don't have problems with particular types of imagery as long as it serves the purpose of creating the mood or atmosphere and doesn't imply something creepy about the author by sticking out like a 3d model in pong. Although even if i personally am insensitive like that, to be fair touchy subjects should be handled with extreme care, and right now various violence towards women-type topics are much, much more touchy than generic gore. It's like fanfic writers adding rape to their stories to be more edgy - it can be really disgusting for all the wrong reasons.

Although even as it was i didn't immidiately think of Shadowman as some kind of horrible pervert for it, people make mistakes :P

Old Post 10-09-12 11:24 #
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dew
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seconding what antroid said. these look appropriately dated (like ripped from shadow warrior or something), so they feel much less fetishistic, heh.

Old Post 10-09-12 16:29 #
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Da Werecat
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Antroid said:
Don't let people disturb your blissful ignorance and tell you you might be wrong, indeed. :D

Don't you think that you are overreacting a little bit?

Old Post 10-09-12 17:47 #
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Antroid
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Da Werecat said:

Don't you think that you are overreacting a little bit?



I honestly think it's not possible to overreact to the sort of stuff that often happens at russian discussion boards when anybody brings up the "rotten, brainwashed americans/europeans". Everybody is so gosh darn proud of not catching up with the progress of morality and ways of thinking.
And on that site in particular, i am pretty irritated when the mods suddenly close threads or delete pages of interesting discussion. Especially since more often than not they leave in several posts with something so dumb that i REALLY want to respond to it, but alas, i can't.

But that's all terribly off topic.

Edit: i'm not implying that this time was so severe, but it's just so predictable and there's so much of it that i guess it was adding up. Sorry if i overreated to the particular situation. I don't have anything personally against anybody involved in discussions/arguing, no matter how much i happen to disagree with them.

Last edited by Antroid on 10-09-12 at 18:26

Old Post 10-09-12 18:07 #
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Shadowman
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OK, guys. A lot of people were asking - why there are those naked & tortured women sprites.
I wrote that it was a sort of "eastern egg", but it seems that no-one was able to understand that post correctly.
Alright, then, I'll tell you, what is the meaning of those sprites. But first, I'll note that I never had an interest in creating maps just for the game, without introducing new ideas and thoughts in it, which aren't directly related to the gameplay.
Someone wrote that tortures of women are cruel, and e.t.c.
And so, these sprites is a reaction by means of Doom-mapping of Pussy Riot's recent vagary in Moscow. IMHO, some women do deserve tortures, and Pussy Riot are the first candidates on it.
I hope now there won't be any questions about those sprites' meaning.

Old Post 10-09-12 19:26 #
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Eris Falling
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Shadowman said:
And so, these sprites is a reaction by means of Doom-mapping of Pussy Riot's recent vagary in Moscow. IMHO, some women do deserve tortures, and Pussy Riot are the first candidates on it.
I hope now there won't be any questions about those sprites' meaning.



Not everyone here is Russian, and those non-Russians will probably see the Pussy Riot situation very differently, I wouldn't use that as an argument.

Old Post 10-09-12 19:32 #
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Grazza
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Shadowman said:
And so, these sprites is a reaction by means of Doom-mapping of Pussy Riot's recent vagary in Moscow. IMHO, some women do deserve tortures, and Pussy Riot are the first candidates on it.
I hope now there won't be any questions about those sprites' meaning.

You have indeed made that breathtakingly clear. Wow.

The true motivation turns out to be worse than what people were speculating.

Old Post 10-09-12 20:00 #
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Memfis
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omg and I was defending him :/

Old Post 10-09-12 20:02 #
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dew
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shadowman putinson. :D

Old Post 10-09-12 20:30 #
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j4rio
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I was close with the guess.

Old Post 10-09-12 20:32 #
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Khorus
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Holy shitballs.

Well. This thread just got even more interesting.

Old Post 10-09-12 20:34 #
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kmxexii
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Well now I'm definitely not playing it

Old Post 10-09-12 21:55 #
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Darch
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I wasn´t really caring for those sprites until he explained, but now it is sick.

But detailing is still great, I would like to know how did you guys got anywhere in this wad, because I can´t find a $*&%& gun or door that opens.

Old Post 10-09-12 22:20 #
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Tarnsman
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Shadowman said:
Riot's recent vagary in Moscow. IMHO, some women do deserve tortures, and Pussy Riot are the first candidates on it.


Is it wrong that when I read, "some women do deserve tortures," instead of being horrified I immediately thing of this...


Nikolai Krestinsky said:
When i first come to America, my english did cause me problems. In Soviet Russia i was strong teacher, my english i know is the best in all of Petropavlovsk. My brother, Mikhail, he say to me, "Nikolai you go to America, they make you rich like czar, take many woman as lover, kill many bear". My brother, he is very wise, is greatest toymaker in all of Russia. So next day i wake up, sell my house, say goodbye to wife and children, and go to America to become millionaire. Then in America, I go to job interview and they say to me "Nikolai, you are not for the job here, you are not the skills we need, your english is poor like child". I take that man and smash his table, i say "someday i will be greatest man in all of country, your children will wish me their father!". That day my anger is best of me. It is then i know i must learn better english, so i buy book "English Grammer it is for Dummies" by Mr.Woods. Now i am perfect english grammer! I write letter to Mikhail, he write back "Nikolai, your english is like a god, you will be millionaire soon! all of Petropavlovsk is proud for you! good luck brother! please send letter when you are president or maybe even czar! Hahaha! also, your wife is killed by bear". So i say thanks to Mr.Woods for his book! When i am czar your family will be spared! Hahahaha! (is joke).

Old Post 10-09-12 22:40 #
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Enjay
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Shadowman said:
As for women sprites - regard it as a some sort of an Easter egg. I specifically made them hi-res as Easter egg, comparing to the low-res gore, like "frank" (read - intimate) textures in NeoDoom. No-one blames NeoDoom for being a "porn-wad", right?

Actually, I remember a number of people commented exactly along those lines about NeoDoom when it came out. :P

Old Post 10-09-12 23:11 #
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Tango
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you being so brainwashed as to think pussy riot really needs to be tortured is pretty extraordinary, good job mate. i doubt the wad is as impressive as this so i guess i don't need to play it anymore

Old Post 10-10-12 00:22 #
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