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Coopersville
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Some of the changes in Brutal Doom keep me from using it regularly. The zombies' attacks do more damage which makes their difficulty disproportional. Also huge cloudy explosions from the rocket launcher make it too dangerous to bother using anymore.

Old Post 10-10-12 17:19 #
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Vermil
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This thread reads 'like most mods, you get bored of them eventually'.

No-one can play the same thing over and over, even good things; I mean we probably wouldn't still be playing Doom regularly if there was only the Iwad maps to play.

Old Post 10-10-12 17:52 #
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LkMax
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There's too much hate on this thread for a mod that doesn't deserve it.


Mr. Chris said:
Leave all feedback in this ZDoom thread here

Done :-P


Clonehunter said:
I played it for a while, but i got addicted to mouselook with Doom Legacy. I dont play it only rarely now. It was a nice novelty.

You do know you can activate mouselook via the (G)Zdoom menu, right?

Old Post 10-10-12 20:40 #
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Pavera
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I have several non-Doomer friends who were first introduced to dooming in general through brutal doom. It certainly serves as a nice and comfortable way to expose new people to a game which most would otherwise consider to be outdated, so I praise it for that reason. I love the doom community and any means of garnering new outside interest in doom is fine by me. With that said, I definitely don't prefer to use brutal doom because it ruins the wonderful, classical balance of doom's gameplay. But, purist dooming is an acquired taste, and so in my opinion, using brutal doom is much akin to taking cream and sugar in your coffee. You're still drinking coffee, but you aren't allowing yourself to experience its true taste. Me, I prefer my coffee black... Or something like that

Old Post 10-10-12 21:55 #
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Sodaholic
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I never really liked it from the start, but I can appreciate some of the cool effects it has like fake floor decals (more ZDoom mods need this, you can even do it in software now with voxels). Still, ever since its popularity has blown up, I've begun to really hate it because of how ubiquitous it is. Just tons of videos and screenshots where they're always using it, and the general attitude of "this is more Doom-like than Doom itself!".

Eh, oh well. I don't actually mind it that much, but it does get on my nerves a little bit.

Old Post 10-10-12 22:33 #
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jongo
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90% of players online use brutal doom for playing in coop (not survival) and just rush rush rush rush rush mindlessly. Tons of boomy sounds, visual effects all over the place and 10 deaths per minute, so playing it online makes me want to puke.
Offline it was fun for maybe an hour, then it got old. It either turns a well-balanced hard map into a mess suitable only for infinite life coop with no tactical apporaches ("IMEGINE CHILAX WITH BRUTAL DOOM, THATS HARD" case) or turns a well-balanced easy map into a horrible map suitable for one-time playthrough ("hey let's try doom2 with it" case) for me.

I just don't get the point of this mod probably. It's definitely not bad, but i'm struggling to find any wad that it goes with well enough.

Old Post 10-11-12 09:14 #
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Sergeant_Mark_IV
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Look, I usually follow a personal rule of not getting involved in this kind of discussion. I usually just say "Ok, it's just their opinion. I can't please everyone, and nobody is forced to like something", and then I just pretend that I haven't seen the thread.
But when I see a thread like this, with such extreme levels of bullshit begin posted, I must break this rule.



Phml said:
I tried it and within a few minutes I bursted out laughing at how cheesy and childish it is. Taunt straight out of a B action movie dubbed by some dude trying to act tough while recording in his bedroom.

Excuse me, but not everyone has money to hire a professional voice actor for a free mod.


To sum it up that way doesn't do it justice, the result manages to be even worse than the sum of these parts. Perhaps, particulary because it takes such a great game as a base and bring it down to the abysmal craphole many first-person shooters have been in for the last decade or so. This mod seemingly manages to take every terrible modern feature and shove it into an old game, creating the worst possible scenario: a game with poor gameplay *and* outdated eyecandy. It could be an ironic depiction, a statement about the stereotypical FPS gamer, but now comes the frightening part: there is no irony here.

Just because it has a (optional) feature of iron sights you think this makes this mod a clone of modern games? Dude, how can you talk this much crap?


Feniks said:
but its weapon sprites and sounds don't belong to Doom at all. They just feel too modern

All sprites are based in existing Doom sprite weapons. All weapons are centered in Doom-style. I don't get your point here.


BaronOfStuff said:
Looks good, but is simply style-over-substance shit and throws IWAD maps completely off-balance.


I don't understand what you are talking about. Brutal Doom's balance is based in the monster and ammo placement found in IWAD maps. I have played thru the original episodes on Ultra Violence and Nightmare levels many times, and the balance is perfect.


jongo said:
90% of players online use brutal doom for playing in coop (not survival) and just rush rush rush rush rush mindlessly. Tons of boomy sounds, visual effects all over the place and 10 deaths per minute, so playing it online makes me want to puke.
Offline it was fun for maybe an hour, then it got old. It either turns a well-balanced hard map into a mess suitable only for infinite life coop with no tactical apporaches ("IMEGINE CHILAX WITH BRUTAL DOOM, THATS HARD" case) or turns a well-balanced easy map into a horrible map suitable for one-time playthrough ("hey let's try doom2 with it" case) for me.


First, check your glasses. Not even 10% of Zandronum coop servers uses Brutal Doom. Everyone uses Real Guns Advanced or Hard Doom. Also, Grandvoid hosts one survival server if you haven't noticed it.
Second, you are having a bad time with the balance because you have not played enough. Many wads such as Alien Vendetta, Hell Revealed, Doom 2 Reloaded, Revilution, and others can be perfectly played with Brutal Doom in Ultra Violence Skill. I personaly enjoy playing the vanilla Doom 2 levels in Nightmare difficult, and I don't even need to save. Brutal Doom revamps the whole difficult of vanilla gameplay, it gives you a powerful starting weapon, weak points to kill big enemies faster, and actually deadly enemies that gives you a reason to always engage them and not just run and evade them. THe problem is not with BD's balance, the problem is with you. You are a casual gamer, and is trying to play hardcore maps with hardcore gameplay mod, probably using Ultra Violence skill when you shouldn't even be playing it with Hurt me Plenty with vanilla balance!


All other posts are based in personal taste, so, they are fine. I can't argue against it.

Last edited by Sergeant_Mark_IV on 10-11-12 at 17:41

Old Post 10-11-12 17:17 #
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BlackFish
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Brutal Doom is great for a singleplayer challenge. However I've been stuck playing Samsara lately, as the latter's a bit more fun in Coop.

It's a great mod though, and I plan on tweaking it a good bit once v17 comes out.

Old Post 10-11-12 18:46 #
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Eris Falling
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Brutal Doom...I only really use it to play Doom in a different style, specifically using actual combat tactics, since it has that more realistic feel. It's a fantastic mod, but I have to say I prefer proper Doom.

Old Post 10-11-12 18:49 #
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Fisk
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LkMax said:
There's too much hate on this thread for a mod that doesn't deserve it.


Are you shitting me? This entire thread is full of people fellating the mod with a few "eh, it's okay," or "it's not for me"'s peppered in there, and you claim that this thread is full of hate?

On a more serious note, I honestly don't think Brutal Doom deserves the credit it gets. I tried it, I tried as hard as I could to like it, but it feels like a slideshow of brief action sequences compared to the original Doom's gameplay.

Old Post 10-11-12 19:06 #
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terminator44
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I can't imagine playing Doom without this mod (and yes, I did play classic Doom quite a bit up until the mod was released, so spare me the accusations of me being a "CoDfag!"). It takes the things I liked about it (weapons that sound and look like they have punch, tense yet frentic action, and gore) and boosted them all. As far as I'm concerned, I've seen all there is to see of what the original Doom games had to offer.

Edit: I should clarify: I don't have anything against vanilla Doom. I mean, it's DOOM. It's a masterpiece in its time and a classic in this time. I get that many people here like playing the same Doom they did 20 years ago. That's not me, though. I couldn't imagine playing the exact same game for two decades. What I'm saying is, if you're not going to do new things with Doom, if you're not going to test the limits of what the engine it can do and you're just rehashing the classic Doom, then I'm not interested.

Last edited by terminator44 on 10-12-12 at 05:43

Old Post 10-11-12 20:39 #
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Platinum Shell
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There seems to be no happy medium here.

Old Post 10-11-12 21:05 #
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vinnie245
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I don't play it all the time but i play it every now and again and definitely like it, for one it's different in a good way, vanilla maps and megawads etc are a dime a dozen so i actually like to play mods that change things up (Reelism did that for me gameplay wise this year).

I also love how it's re-energized the doom community in general, i can't even think of a doom mod that has made this much of an impact (not taking the hard work away from other doom modders, just that a normal megawad isn't gonna go and really grab peoples attention)

To the people complaining how it's like most modern shooters, most of the features are optional (The iron sights, the fatalities themselves, meatshields etc)

Of course there are faults along with every other mod, the zombie death shouts are definitely an annoyance and like so many other people i would like a version that just included all the gore features and left out the gameplay alterations (not that i have a problem with them, just like to try it under normal gameplay)

I definitely will still keep an eye out for new versions though and also look forward to the brutal weapons add on :P

Last edited by vinnie245 on 10-11-12 at 21:34

Old Post 10-11-12 21:26 #
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walter confalonieri
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kind of cool, but the fatalities are boring as hell, for the most part!

Old Post 10-11-12 21:31 #
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mckracken
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I got aware of the WAD scene because i stumbled upon BD.

after checking out about 15 years worth of WADs (and while i found some nice ones) BD is still the best mod.

Monsters are not walking cannon fodder any longer.
Vanilla Doom graphics looks not like utter shit any longer.
The costum animations are so well done, its unreal.
The gore is hilarious.

and yeah, most members here on DOOMWORLD really seem like grouchy old farts, who think the highpoint of wads was around 1996, when in reality almost everything before '03 or so sucks balls....

Old Post 10-11-12 21:57 #
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mouldy
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Seeing the polarized opinions here I thought I'd have a go and see for myself.

Not keen really - the footsteps noise is a constant annoyance, as is the noise of shell casings rattling about, sounds like someone tied a load of plastic bottles and tin cans to my legs. The fountains of blood spraying everywhere gets in the way of the graphics for me. Then I ran through some water and the splashing noise made me give up - too much noise in my ears and red stuff in my face.

Doesn't bother me that other people enjoy it though, there's enough doom out there for everyone.

Old Post 10-11-12 22:22 #
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Ribbiks
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I could see using BD as a way to play through vanilla content again (not sure I could stomach another casual play through of iwads nowadays), but I vastly prefer playing without it for reasons people have already mentioned: superficial, annoying, gameplay changes I don't find fun, etc...

Though I agree with whoever noted that it's typically mentioned as a way to introduce new players to doom, that's a pretty noble mission I suppose.

Old Post 10-11-12 22:34 #
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Doomguy 2000
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mckracken said:
and yeah, most members here on DOOMWORLD really seem like grouchy old farts, who think the highpoint of wads was around 1996, when in reality almost everything before '03 or so sucks balls....


They had some really good stuff back in the 90s such as Batman Doom for instance. I personally think that Brutal Doom is the best weapon mod out there today. I also like the commander keen replacement that's in Brutal Doom.

Old Post 10-11-12 22:48 #
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Pottus
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Here's my view on it MODS are a dime a dozen but a good map is worth a dollar.

Old Post 10-11-12 23:05 #
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BloodyAcid
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mckracken said:
and yeah, most members here on DOOMWORLD really seem like grouchy old farts, who think the highpoint of wads was around 1996, when in reality almost everything before '03 or so sucks balls....
Coming from a new person who only stumbled upon the wad scene because of Brutal Doom. ZDoom is more mod oriented while DW is more mapping oriented and Zan is a mixed bag.

Old Post 10-11-12 23:20 #
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Fisk
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mckracken said:
and yeah, most members here on DOOMWORLD really seem like grouchy old farts, who think the highpoint of wads was around 1996, when in reality almost everything before '03 or so sucks balls....


I think it's time for you to go back to 1994 and play SERENITY, ETERNITY, Crossing Acheron, or really anything that existed prior to Brutal Doom and stop being a troll

Old Post 10-11-12 23:30 #
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scalliano
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What Pottus said. Give me a mapset over a gameplay mod any day. Throw in some extra enemies/weapons, of course, but I'll always prefer having some new areas to tear around.

My only problem with Brutal Doom is not the mod itself (I actually really like the modelled bullet tracers), it's the fact that BD seems to have fallen into the same category as PKSmooth before it, in that if a .WAD isn't compatible with it, then said .WAD is automatically deemed to be utter shit and not worthy of one's time. Broaden your horizons, people.

That includes you, mckracken. You might want to have a look at this, as it is crystal, 2160p, 4D clear from your post that you haven't yet.

BTW this old fart is a ZDoomer, through and through.

Old Post 10-12-12 00:12 #
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mckracken
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i did check this out.
mapping was just crude and very basic before zdoom in my opinion.

without the nostalgia factor (i was playing doom when it came out)
even the original levels would be today, well...not very good.

compared to modern wads like zpack or the ultimate torment and torture.

Old Post 10-12-12 00:30 #
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Death Egg
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I really like Brutal Doom myself, even if I think there's a few things about it that could be toned down or not be as obnoxious. It's not the end-all, be-all of Doom addons, and I use Doom without it more often than not.

Old Post 10-12-12 00:35 #
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BloodyAcid
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mapping was just crude and very basic before zdoom in my opinion.

ZDoom != automatic beautiful maps

Sure ZDoom added alot of features and such, but the general mapping design improved with updated mapping programs and more experienced mappers.


(i was playing doom when it came out)

I got aware of the WAD scene because i stumbled upon BD.
To you, someone who hasn't played ANY maps or wads until BD, probably cannot appreciate the timeframe for when many of the nostalgic maps came out, especially since your experience jumps from original Romero/Sandersen levels to high-end seg breaking maps of 2011.

Back to earlier...

Vanilla Doom graphics looks not like utter shit any longer.
The costum animations are so well done, its unreal.

Wat. Vanilla Doom graphics are shit? THAT'S A GOOD ONE. I'M DYING OF LAUGHTER RIGHT NOW.

Also, correct my if I'm wrong, port experts here, but aren't all 60+FPS Doom things still limited by the 1 tic = 1/35th of a second?

edit: typo

Last edited by BloodyAcid on 10-12-12 at 00:42

Old Post 10-12-12 00:35 #
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mckracken
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BloodyAcid said:


To you, someone who hasn't played ANY maps or wads until BD, probably cannot appreciate the timeframe for when many of the nostalgic maps came out, especially since your experience jumps from original Romero/Sandersen levels to high-end seg breaking maps of 2011.

edit: typo



Thats exactly my point. Maps from for instance 1996 have zero sentimental value for me.

And about that horizon: I have recently for the first time checked out PLUTONIA and EVILUTION and these are repetitive, crude and really ugly. Why? Because I haven't been playing them in the mid 90ies until my keyboard broke, that's why.

Last edited by mckracken on 10-12-12 at 11:06

Old Post 10-12-12 00:48 #
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kmxexii
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mckracken said:
in reality almost everything before '03 or so sucks balls....


Nope. I played virtually zero user levels before 2010 and I still think pretty well of most of the things I've played since then. But it's not illegal to prefer Brutal Doom's gameplay to OG Doom's, so blast on!

Old Post 10-12-12 00:57 #
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scalliano
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@mckracken: Now I have severe trouble accepting the idea that you have been playing Doom since its release. Sorry, but BloodyAcid has you pegged here. You sound like you're about 12.

When you look past the eye-candy (you clearly can't), ZPack was balls (bar one or two maps). If that is your measure of quality, you really haven't played enough mods yet. Most ZDoom mods are also shit, just like everything else. ZDoom is not the be-all-and-end-all. Go and play the Vaporware demo to see what I mean.

Nostalgia has nothing to do with this. From 1995 I had to make do with 32x and PSX Doom up until I finally got a PC in - wait for it - 2001. There's no sentimental value in those old .WADs for me, either. Doesn't mean I can't appreciate when I find a good one. Production levels are irrelevant. This "wasn't there so don't care" attitude is making you sound like any number of Cod/BF/Halo tossers (My beef is not with the games, but the players).

For the record, I don't think Doom modding has peaked yet. The advancement in engines, toolkits and authors' ideas mean that there is still a way to go, whether or not ZDoom is required.

This, I remind you, is coming from a ZDoom modder.

Last edited by scalliano on 10-12-12 at 01:19

Old Post 10-12-12 01:14 #
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Fisk
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mckracken said:


Thats exactly my point. Maps from for instance 1996 have zero sentimental value for me.

And about that horizon: I have recently for the first time checked out TNT and EVILUTION and these are repetitive, crude and really ugly. Why? Because I haven't been playing them in the mid 90ies until my keyboard broke, that's why.



To suggest that you've been playing Evilution and it's bland and repetitive is to suggest that liquid water is wet. You're just picking out whatever poor example suits your opinion, and then generalize based on an extreme to make it appear as though your perception of Doom pre-2003 is fact.

It is not fair at all to consider ZPack -- a mapset that is composed chiefly of shitty 1995-era designs anyway -- leagues better than Obituary or Nostromo's Run, as you claim.

Old Post 10-12-12 01:31 #
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Megamur
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I like vanilla DOOM, and I like Brutal Doom. I don't really bother to directly compare them, but enjoy them on their own merits. Brutal Doom can be nice for replaying an old WAD that you've done to death in vanilla, but it's not something I'd play all the time, since most maps were never designed with BD in mind. You're really screwing with the intended design and balance of user levels if all you ever play is BD.

Also, if you're looking for good WADs prior to 2003, you need to give Icarus, Hell Revealed, Memento Mori, or Requiem a spin.

Old Post 10-12-12 03:11 #
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