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Unholypimpin
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I got burnt out after playing 15 maps with brutal doom. Only neat thing I think brutal doom actually gives us is the fatalities, other than that its just another content wad.

Content wads are ok but nothing beats a good map set.

Just my 2 cents

Old Post 10-12-12 04:44 #
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jongo
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Heh, Sergeant_Mark_IV, many assumptions and all wrong, i'll reply only to few. I never stated brutal doom is dominant among coop servers, i stated a reverse - coop was dominant among brutaldoom servers back when it was all over the place.
And, calling me a casual gamer? Wow, what an insult :(. I won't start a boasting campaign describing how awesome i am, let's say i'm not having hard time playing most wads you listed with brutaldoom, i'm just having hard time understanding what makes it fun to play for others.
Don't get me wrong, i acknowledge that mod is a high-quality work, but i just couldn't find anything fun in it myself and asked in the end of my previous post about suggestions on how and what to play with it. I'm genuinely curious.

Old Post 10-12-12 14:48 #
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Optimus
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It's interesting to see what the community thinks about here. So far, 2 or 3 people seem to be affected, changed their way of playing doom. But I guess it's more outside judging by the lot's of brutal doom vids on youtube.

I admit to a doom sin, playing newly released maps with Brutal Doom only. It would be ok to revisit old maps with BD, but now I feel I am not seeing the balance the original map author intended. At least, now I started designing a new map, I still was wise enough to test it in vanilla doom, keeping a ZdoomEdit folder with my old configuration for that purpose.

However, the balance is not screwed in my opinion. It did change, but slightly as the weapon power changed too. It was pimped up. In a way that makes it more intense (but not as hard as nightmare difficulty, I still find that too hard to play) but somehow still keeping the balance most of the times. There are few exceptions, like for example a trap with 4 revenants is not the same anymore, so maps that use lot's of revenants are too unplayable now. I remember in the past strafe running and making the rockets my satellite bitch, but I can't do this now. Yes, some level may be unfair now, regardless the powerful weaps and aiming to the head (revenant can die with only 3 simple shotgun to the head, wow) but easier ones play well.

Maps with simple monsters (zombies, imps, demons) can be really fun. Later ones, hmm.. some higher monsters are easier (lost soul, archvile), some are harder (cacodemons, revenants), with most you can't be near (too fast and deadly melee). I only was surprised with the Spiderdemon, the discussion we had about that it should be harder than the Cybie. I was outside in E3M8, I hear BLAM BLAM BLAM like they were firing cannons! My 200 armor was depleted and I was hurt badly. Yeah I know, it's a gimmick, but sooo awesome! Really kick ass spider boss!!!

Though, I am still an oldschool guy. I do appreciate and I do enjoy some good old maps from before 2000 more because of their simplicity. I usually don't enjoy Zdoom maps because they have slopes and mirrors and stuff (it's outdated Doom and still looks ugly anyway, regardless the patches. Like an old lady with perfume) except if they have some nice architecture and clean design to show me. But BD got me badly. Maybe I should head to that ZD forum and dissapear :)

Old Post 10-12-12 16:13 #
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Macblain
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I observe that the internet still brings out the best in each of us.

I dislike the violence, but am drawn to the careful gameplay and balance considerations. Is vanilla sacred? Does it manifest total complete optimal gameplay? Not in my opinion.

I believe that a large part of its magnetism is in the increased animation, variety and responsiveness of the game world. It reminds me of a well-polished GBA or PSX game.

Old Post 10-12-12 16:42 #
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Coolster
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To me it's ok, i mean i would rather have the gore and smooth animations as a standalone package rather than changing the pace of the gameplay and all of the balance. I will stick to Beautiful Doom or Super Skulltag as game enhancers though.

Old Post 10-12-12 17:08 #
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WildWeasel
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I like the increased difficulty and the headshot system, and some of the new gameplay additions are actually legitimately fun to me, but I feel that the mod recently has gone overboard with the Fatality stuff, loads of alternate deaths, and Cruelty Bonus stuff. Oh well, I suppose there's Hideous Destructor for what I'm looking for, or I could just go make another mod myself and see how Sarge did his headshots... =P

Old Post 10-12-12 19:01 #
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doom_is_great
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I love Brutal Doom. I also loved Classic Doom aswell. I played Classic Doom for a long time. However, I think Brutal Doom may have desensitized me because now Classic Doom just doesn't seem as awesome as it used to be.

I don't know how some people think that Brutal Doom totally throws off gameplay balance. I find that I am still able to beat most maps including all of the old IWADS on ultra violence. Granted, it has unfortunately made certain situations in maps ridiculously hard now. For example, I was playing this old map (sorry, forgot what it's called) where you are in a huge space station. It's a really big map. It has over 700 monsters in it I believe. It was pretty fun to play with Brutal Doom. However, there was one room where you had to jump down into a pool of green acid to get to a yellow key card that was guarded by a small maze. When you jump into the acid pool the walls open up on all sides and you're surrounded by revenants. That part was so frustrating that I almost gave up and was going to just turn on invulnerable and just blow away all the revenants. However, I finally was able to kill them all without turning on God mode, but my health was extremely low afterwards.

I like how it just makes everything in Doom so much more intense. The sounds, the gore, the special effects, etc. I don't know about everybody else but I acutally like the new zombie sounds. I like how they now shout phrases at you like "Die!" I also sometimes find it comical when I open a door for example and there is a zombie on the other side, he shouts "You will not es" and before he is able to finish his sentence, I blow off his upper torso with the SSG. Such events like that make me chuckle. However, I have to agree that when they yell and screech in pain when you blow off their arms is rather annoying.

There is something just so satisfying about mowing down a horde of zombies/imps with the minigun and watching all the blood and bodyparts fly. Haha.

One other thing is that it makes the gameplay a little more strategic. Since headshots now actually do more damage than regular body shots, you can now kill a cyberdemon with maybe 10 ten shots to the head with the rocket launcher. Some may feel that such a advantage makes the cyberdemon too easy to defeat, however, such an advantage like that is a god send when you are in a small room with a cyberdemon and you don't have any BFG ammo.

Last edited by doom_is_great on 10-13-12 at 03:03

Old Post 10-13-12 02:55 #
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Optimus
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Something strange happened now. I had an old version of Doom in this computer and I tried the CC4 mapset. I actually liked it! I think I've missed the old sounds, the way the monsters move slowly, the way they respond when they are hit, the jack pot shotgun VS imp, Caco VS 2xSSG, where you feel an accomplishment when it doesn't take more ammo. I miss the old feeling that was hardwired in my brain. One friend asked me why I still play doom, and besides the obvious, another reason is that we are so hardwired to the doom gameplay through the years that it acts like a drug, there is the feeling of accomplishment when I strafe and shoot and hear the familiar death sound of an imp from a shotgun. I even remembered the feeling of playing with keyboard only and the crispy graphics of software rendering in Zdoom.

Then, after an hour, I tried switching to Brutal Doom. Omg, monsters are so fucking fast, so awesome loud sounds, what a cool mess! After playing vanilla for an hour this is how BD felt. I will do the opposite again, try vanilla again. CC4 had intense action and very well designed levels that I think I prefer with crispy software rendering.

It's like when I played mario1 in gameboy for a long time, then mario2 and everything seemed huge. Only problem, I am puzzled now, I don't want to forget the old good feeling of doom gameplay that's imprinted in my brain. Maybe I should have vanilla and brutal doom sessions. Lol

Old Post 10-13-12 17:17 #
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mouldy
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Right, it turns out I was playing the wrong mod when I had a go (got it mixed up with BDoom whatever that is) so I just had a go at brutal doom now.

Yeah, I can see why some people don't like this, its like playing doom with someone shouting in your ears and throwing red paint in your face. Fun for a quick blast but the stuff it adds kind of detracts from the game for me. The noise is just noise, screaming and booming - you can't hear much else. The blood and guts are fun for a bit, but they start getting in the way - I actually couldnt see a door underneath it all at one point. The guns - I don't know whats going on there, half the time I couldnt see how much ammo I had left, and there is some kind of reloading going on? That just adds an extra layer of pain in the arse. The effects are good though, I think I'd like it more if it was all toned down a bit and the screaming and reloading was gone.

To be honset though, I normally play this game in software mode with no mouselook out of choice, so this was never going to appeal to me. Looks impressive though, if it keeps people intrested in doom then good job.

Old Post 10-13-12 22:34 #
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Arclite
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I simply use it because it improves gameplay and makes the game harder.
I mean the game was still insanely awesome even without it, but Brutal Doom makes it even better.
It's what inspired me to start working on my new wad, and what encouraged me to replay a lot of the original Doom again.

Old Post 10-13-12 22:35 #
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arkore
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That's not what "burned out" means. It means exhausted to a point where you stop playing brutal doom. But you described the opposite in your post. You said you play it too much, and you haven't stopped yet.

Old Post 10-14-12 00:30 #
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BloodyAcid
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arkore said:
That's not what "burned out" means. It means exhausted to a point where you stop playing brutal doom. But you described the opposite in your post. You said you play it too much, and you haven't stopped yet.
At this rate, people just come and offer their opinions on BD, not necessarily answering the question of "burned out"


I simply use it because it improves gameplay and makes the game harder.
Decorate and add 20 to all projectile/monster damages :)

Old Post 10-14-12 00:52 #
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Glaice
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If I'm right based on some ZDoom forum thread posts, 0.17 has removed that highly annoying zombie scream when you blow off a limb from their body.

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Old Post 10-16-12 18:48 #
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Average
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I have to admit to being burned out by Brutal Doom. When I first tried it I thought it was the bees knees but it soon became tiresome. It's all just a bit too much and starts to feel a little tedious.

Coincidently, I just finished playing through episode one of Doom (again!)and was going to post here about the great time I had playing with my chosen setup for today.

I used GZDoom with SBrightmaps.pk3, Contrast3.wad, PSXSM.wad and the lovely Cosmetic Doom (by Decemberman). It was all played on my telly at 1360x768 with 5.1 surround and my XBox controller.

It was like being back in the mid 90's! It plays (to me) how I would imagine Doom to have been if I hadn't played it regularly over the years and was just reminiscing, if that makes sense! I call it 'Rose-tinted-glasses-Doom'!

Old Post 10-16-12 19:11 #
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arkore
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Average said:
I used GZDoom with SBrightmaps.pk3, Contrast3.wad, PSXSM.wad and the lovely Cosmetic Doom (by Decemberman). It was all played on my telly at 1360x768 with 5.1 surround and my XBox controller.


Why didn't you record this with Fraps and post it on youtube? Damnit.

Old Post 10-16-12 19:40 #
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Glaice
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@Average: Try my Brutalized IWAD maps if it's too easy :P

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Old Post 10-16-12 19:50 #
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VylePhinder
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ComicMischief said:
I've seen Brutal Doom being played, but I don't want to ever try it for the reasons outlined above. It'd be like letting the Marvel vs Capcom games ruin my enjoyment of simple, solid, Street Fighter. All flash without the substance, so it seems to me.


You are right about everything except "without the substance". As stated by Optimus, the changes are careful and I feel that it gains all the flash without taking away from the substance.

Also, Optimus, to answer your original question: Yes, this has done EXACTLY the same thing to me and I feel EXACTLY the same way that you do. Only thing I miss is some of the wads that were packed with detail and/or monsters that are just too much for my system, when coupled with Brutal Doom (like, 32 inch nails, speed of doom, deus vault 2, and (sadly) Eternal's new "Frozen Time").

Don't care, though, I wouldn't give up Brutal Doom for anything. It's just that damn good, honestly. I LOVE IT!

Old Post 12-02-12 20:23 #
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esselfortium
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It makes Doom's gameplay into a dull, tedious slog. The altered monster behavior encourages hiding around corners and taking potshots at high-powered enemies, which isn't fun or challenging, just boring.

Last edited by esselfortium on 12-02-12 at 21:00

Old Post 12-02-12 20:33 #
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Raptomex
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I don't understand the hate for this mod on here either. I love Brutal Doom and I love vanilla doom. Brutal Doom is definitely a whole new way to play. I love action, the intensity, and the brutality. I think people need to chill out. Regardless if you hate it or not everyone should recognize the time, effort, and quality of this mod. It's definitely worth a shot if your at least looking for something different. I play using Brutal Doom a lot but I also switch back to vanilla doom quite often. Nothing can top the magic of the vanilla game but damn some people just need to relax with the hate. Doom has almost been around 20 years so give it a break. Try something new. But don't bash it. It's a quality mod, well made, has excellent features and introduces a new way to replay the original games and wads that you've beaten to death. And if you don't like just don't play it.

Old Post 12-02-12 21:21 #
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Watermelon
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Phml said:
[B]I tried it and within a few minutes I bursted out laughing at how cheesy and childish it is. Taunt straight out of a B action movie dubbed by some dude trying to act tough while recording in his bedroom. Takedowns with crude, ridiculous animations. Ludicrous amounts of blood washing out any emotional trigger it might have, and the cartoonish way in which all that gore happens shattering any immersion into pieces. Overly loud gun noises. Cracks blocking your vision. Recoil. Powered up monsters turning every encounter into peekaboo or trench warfare, utterly destroying the original fast-paced, movement-based Doom gameplay.


That sounds like what my mom said when I started playing doom in 1990's, minus the recoil/HUD cracks of course.

Old Post 12-02-12 21:40 #
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CorSair
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It's just a mod that alters the way we play our IWADs and PWADS, folks. Jesus...

Personally, I think it is good to play, making it bit challenging to play, plus some new painting style (with that amount of blood, I say it that way, deal with it) and few new gimmicks.
But, I can't play it for weeks. Nice weekend ride with it, and maybe try something other, like one of Weasel's mods for change of pace, and maybe try some WIP stuff lying around and comment on...

And just to finish this, here's a few simple things said by others (and would wholeheartedly agree):

Ed said:
If you don't like something, don't play it. If you're burnt out from a mod, play a different one. How is this even a thing?


Pottus said:
Here's my view on it MODS are a dime a dozen but a good map is worth a dollar.

Old Post 12-02-12 21:58 #
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Pottus
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Well in Brutal Dooms case it's at least worth a quarter ;) but probably my biggest beef is switching between different playing styles always feels so awkward and ends up taking away enjoyment. If I want more difficulty usually throwing on fast monsters can work wonders.

Old Post 12-02-12 22:02 #
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Mr. Freeze
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esselfortium said:
It makes Doom's gameplay into a dull, tedious slog. The altered monster behavior encourages hiding around corners and taking potshots at high-powered enemies, which isn't fun or challenging, just boring.


I don't know what WADs you played (or if you even played BD), but that's the last thing I ever do in BD. And I played through Hell Revealed 1 and 2.

Old Post 12-02-12 22:44 #
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Captain Red
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Pottus said:
Here's my view on it MODS are a dime a dozen but a good map is worth a dollar.

I agree... With the exact opposite sentiment. I'd take a good mod over a good map set any day (emphasis on the "good" part mind, good mods a rare gems), thought that might be because 'a good map set' seems to be code for "you should be fighting a billion revenants all the time". I've spent hours with some of WildWeasel's works and Oblige, yet I don't think I've ever actually finished a megawad.

But anyways, Brutal Doom is rad, though as hilarious as the gore and fatalities are I wish there was also a toned down version with just the new enemy AI and weapons, the "BLOOD EVERYWHERE!" does at times damage on the atmosphere a bit on some wads.

Old Post 12-03-12 07:00 #
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Pottus
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Well you know this is really a debate of extremes and will certainly mimic that of left wing and right wing politics. There really is no definitive outlook on something like this everyone is going to have their view some will say ya MODS are great other will say they're a novelty no one is wrong it's all a matter of preference.

Old Post 12-03-12 09:05 #
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Xaser
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Pottus said:
There really is no definitive outlook on something like this everyone is going to have their view some will say ya MODS are great other will say they're a novelty no one is wrong it's all a matter of preference.

Pardon my intrusion, but this has got to be one of the scariest run-on sentences I've ever encountered on these boards. D:

On an actual on-topic, I'm of the "Play what you like" mentality for the most part, though Brutal Doom is kind of an odd case since it's practically spawned its own subculture by now. :P

Old Post 12-03-12 09:08 #
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Pottus
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It sure has :D but I for one really don't give a flying <insert swear word here> about it heh

Old Post 12-03-12 09:10 #
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wesleyjohnson
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It is called desensitization. After too much brutal doom some people will need to see violence similar to baby seals being clubbed to get any kind of feeling out of the game. You need to look at something non-violent for a while. Try a dose of the Chex wads.

Old Post 12-03-12 19:44 #
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kb1
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Baby seal clubbing mod...where? WHERE???

Anyway, when you post a comment, you *should* always ask yourself this question: "Would I say this to a friend?" If not, tone it down, won't you?

"Hey, you worked on this for 6 months? It sucks ass!!"

It's called "common courtesy". Just because someone can't reach thru the web and kick your ass, doesn't mean you shouldn't be decent. Yikes.

Old Post 12-04-12 01:37 #
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Darsycho
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To me the wad has way too much attention it really doesn't deserve, but I guess it's just me, I would prefer russian overkill over brutal doom any day, mainly because I don't find tearing monsters apart more entertaining than BLOWING UP THE ENTIRE FRIGGIN MAP WITH ONE GUN. =P

Old Post 12-04-12 02:32 #
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