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Unholypimpin
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Jack101 said:
To me the wad has way too much attention it really doesn't deserve, but I guess it's just me, I would prefer russian overkill over brutal doom any day, mainly because I don't find tearing monsters apart more entertaining than BLOWING UP THE ENTIRE FRIGGIN MAP WITH ONE GUN. =P


Im thinking the same thing. I dont like content wads because most of the time it makes wads maps impossible or annoying. Plus brutal doom is like an unofficial jokewad.

But i guess the reason why its soo popular is because theres alot of people that like blood and guts.

Old Post 12-04-12 03:31 #
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Phml
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Anyway, when you post a comment, you *should* always ask yourself this question: "Would I say this to a friend?" If not, tone it down, won't you?


If I didn't speak up while one of my friends worked on something that turned out to be garbage for months and kept going at it because people around him were overly supportive rather than critical, I'd blame myself.

Everyone gets a gold star for effort is suitable for kindergarten. Beyond that point, it breeds mediocrity and turns people into underachievers.

You only need to look at the "counterpoints" people who praise Brutal Doom offer to criticism. You tell them the blood is done poorly and they tell you you're a pussy afraid of blood. You tell them the guns are too loud and they tell you you dislike loud guns because you're an old man. There's no need to be a rocket scientist to see we have a great amount of people who can't grasp relativity, people mistaking quantity for quality, or worse, people for whom quality is such a strange notion they can't even comprehend any criticism focusing on that, hence unrelated answers to various points.

Now why is that? Because of those who think like you do, rewarding crap with praise, enabling and condoning what is happening here. Many Brutal Doom supporters, seeing they had no answer for some arguments, started getting desesperate and throwing the hater word as a get out of jail free card (FYI: does not work. It's just as good as an admission of impotence). Ultimately, Brutal Doom is just a poorly done mod for a video game - personally, I hold no hard feelings against anyone genuinely liking this. If you have shit tastes, it doesn't hurt me any. But people like you, kb1? People who actively work towards making everyone else a worse person? Here there is hate alright.

Old Post 12-04-12 11:15 #
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(empty)
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Not really addressing this to anyone in particular, but if you think BD is cheesy, what weird version of Doom have you been playing?

Doom's always been ridiculous (have you read the manual? Or the intermissions?), and BD just makes it even moreso. That's what I like about it.

I'm fine with people not liking it; everyone has different tastes, and I think people should be allowed to enjoy Doom however they want. I just find people going "this is silly" rather amusing, given the game we're fans of.

Old Post 12-04-12 16:27 #
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schwerpunk
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Agreed. If you didn't bust a gut laughing, the first time you saw a Demon eating a Former, then you've got a heart of stone.

Anyway, I still like it every now and then, and it looks nice and gritty with vid_renderer set to 0. The plasma rifle in particular is extremely satisfying. I've been meaning to make a map with it in mind, actually. I think that would be fun.

It's my opinion that as far as content packs go, Brutal Doom is very much above average. It feels as if it's approaching TC-levels of gameplay-alteration. I like the details, I like a constant updates, and I look forward to more in the future.

Also, once it stabilizes around version 1.0, I think the mutator scene for it will really kick off. I've got a couple of ideas that I think would enhance it, but I'm waiting until there's more time between updates.

Old Post 12-04-12 16:44 #
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kb1
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Phml said:


If I didn't speak up while one of my friends worked on something that turned out to be garbage for months and kept going at it because people around him were overly supportive rather than critical, I'd blame myself.

Everyone gets a gold star for effort is suitable for kindergarten. Beyond that point, it breeds mediocrity and turns people into underachievers.

You only need to look at the "counterpoints" people who praise Brutal Doom offer to criticism. You tell them the blood is done poorly and they tell you you're a pussy afraid of blood. You tell them the guns are too loud and they tell you you dislike loud guns because you're an old man. There's no need to be a rocket scientist to see we have a great amount of people who can't grasp relativity, people mistaking quantity for quality, or worse, people for whom quality is such a strange notion they can't even comprehend any criticism focusing on that, hence unrelated answers to various points.

Now why is that? Because of those who think like you do, rewarding crap with praise, enabling and condoning what is happening here. Many Brutal Doom supporters, seeing they had no answer for some arguments, started getting desesperate and throwing the hater word as a get out of jail free card (FYI: does not work. It's just as good as an admission of impotence). Ultimately, Brutal Doom is just a poorly done mod for a video game - personally, I hold no hard feelings against anyone genuinely liking this. If you have shit tastes, it doesn't hurt me any. But people like you, kb1? People who actively work towards making everyone else a worse person? Here there is hate alright.

You don't know how I think. Go read it again- I never claimed to like or dislike BD. People like me work to make everyone worse? By tell you to act decently? Fuck you, Phml. Maybe one of your "friends" should tell you to shut your trap before someone does it for you. You're welcome.

Old Post 12-04-12 21:55 #
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BloodyAcid
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schwerpunk said:
Agreed. If you didn't bust a gut laughing, the first time you saw a Demon eating a Former, then you've got a heart of stone.


Half the communitiy's made of ice by your logic :V

Old Post 12-04-12 22:31 #
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Sergeant_Mark_IV
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Phml said:
[B]You tell them the blood is done poorly and they tell you you're a pussy afraid of blood.


There's a huge difference between "This resource sucks, use this resource/somebody else's resource instead" and a plain "This resource sucks", and I think you fail to see the difference. I think the blood in Brutal Doom is good how it is now, that's what I think, and I don't know what you think. I can't read your mind to know what you think is a good blood resource. I have worked on it almost alone for 2 years, and I just don't want to touch the same spot for the 3469th time again, but anyone is always welcome to contribute with new sprites, sounds, or anything else.



You tell them the guns are too loud and they tell you you dislike loud guns because you're an old man.

Same applies for above. I just want to mention that many sounds have been toned down in V17. Specially the Rifle and SuperShotgun sounds.

Last edited by Sergeant_Mark_IV on 12-04-12 at 23:20

Old Post 12-04-12 23:12 #
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Necromancer-AMV
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My only caveat with BD was the zombie death screams, as previously mentioned, and the taunts, which are entirely optional and thus not really an issue.

Otherwise I like it and give it a spin occasionally when I'm actually playing Doom and not Heretic, Hexen or Strife.

Old Post 12-05-12 04:21 #
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(empty)
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Necromancer-AMV said:
My only caveat with BD was the zombie death screams, as previously mentioned, and the taunts, which are entirely optional and thus not really an issue.

By "death screams", are you referring to how when you kill them they sometimes stay alive screaming, or is there a new death sound that I haven't noticed?

Old Post 12-05-12 15:02 #
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Eonfge
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Snakes said:
Burned out is a good expression of how I felt about Brutal Doom after running it the second time. The novelty wore off quickly and the massive amount of love for it eluded me. That someone could enjoy this mod to extent that they couldn't enjoy "old" Doom anymore is downright ridiculous for a number of reasons, I think.

To each their own, and I know people will try and run the wads I make with it. So be it.



This. I see the appeal of it as a novelty toy, but as a replacement of the original games. NO.

Old Post 12-05-12 15:11 #
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schwerpunk
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It has a permanent position in my stable of content mods, so I think it stands up well over time. My enjoyment hinges powerfully on which maps I play. Anyway, I can see its appeal to people who normally wouldn't play Doom... I don't fully understand those people, but I can see where they're coming from.

That said, I wouldn't even be here unless I found Doom itself - unadorned - enjoyable. I don't think a great mod like Brutal Doom diminishes the game in any way; it only enhances my enjoyment of the vanilla experience. It's just a fun new perspective to throw at some maps.

Old Post 12-05-12 15:59 #
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EvilNed01
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I hadn't really given Brutal Doom an honest chance until I read this thread.

I went and DL'ed and tried out some of my favorite maps in Doom, including E4M2 and E4M6. The latter I tried several times, but damn, your HP sips down fast. It's tough! But very, very fun.

Old Post 12-05-12 16:55 #
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Use3D
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I've never touched this mod and I have no intention of doing so.

Old Post 12-05-12 18:07 #
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(empty)
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Use3D said:
I've never touched this mod and I have no intention of doing so.

Thank you for making this incredibly important contribution to this thread. Everyone is so proud of you.

Old Post 12-05-12 21:12 #
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Tarnsman
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(empty) said:

Thank you for making this incredibly important contribution to this thread. Everyone is so proud of you.



No, thank you (empty) for your incredibly important contribution! Otherwise we would never have known how important use's contribution was!

Old Post 12-05-12 21:28 #
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Eris Falling
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Tarnsman said:


No, thank you (empty) for your incredibly important contribution! Otherwise we would never have known how important use's contribution was!



No, thank YOU Tarnsman for your incredibly important contribution! Otherwise we would never have known how important (empty)'s contribution of detailing how important Use3D's contribution to this thread was.

Deary me -_-

Old Post 12-05-12 21:34 #
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j4rio
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Use3D said:
I've never touched this mod and I have no intention of doing so.

Old Post 12-05-12 21:50 #
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Grazza
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Eris Falling said:
No, thank YOU Tarnsman for your incredibly important contribution! Otherwise we would never have known how important (empty)'s contribution of detailing how important Use3D's contribution to this thread was.
This needs to be a tag. And maybe a tagtag.

Old Post 12-05-12 22:39 #
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kb1
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Dicks.

Old Post 12-05-12 22:54 #
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Pottus
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kb1 said:
Dicks.


Isn't that a well thought out sentence.

Old Post 12-05-12 23:01 #
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Grazza
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Says the guy who doesn't even put a question mark at the end of a question!!

Old Post 12-06-12 00:12 #
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VylePhinder
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Xaser said:

Pardon my intrusion, but this has got to be one of the scariest run-on sentences I've ever encountered on these boards. D:




LOL!



Xaser said:

On an actual on-topic, I'm of the "Play what you like" mentality for the most part, though Brutal Doom is kind of an odd case since it's practically spawned its own subculture by now. :P



I agree. Also, you are an awesome mapper. That is all :D

Old Post 12-06-12 01:03 #
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DooM_RO
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It seems even Id Software likes it. Although I really like the mod, it would be cool if there was a toned down version to maintain a sense of realism. I wish Doom 3 had something like this.

https://twitter.com/idSoftware

EDIT: Oh an d regarding the blood, it's not really bad but given the general low resolution of Doom, it kind of looks out of place and I never really liked how it painted the walls. I think this is something you should work more on.

Last edited by DooM_RO on 12-06-12 at 13:02

Old Post 12-06-12 12:48 #
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40oz
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(empty) said:

Thank you for making this incredibly important contribution to this thread. Everyone is so proud of you.



"gold star for everyone" mentality is creeping into our forum posts too. If the mod sucks don't play it you say? If the poster sucks, don't read his posts.

Old Post 12-07-12 20:01 #
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schwerpunk
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Ugh. You guys. Not everything that irks you is a fundamental failing of society, or a sign of moral decay in the younger generation. Sometimes people disagree. Sometimes other people have views on disagreements that you disagree with.

There is nothing wrong with that. Everything is fine. Just... Play more Doom.

Old Post 12-07-12 20:06 #
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fraggle
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Interesting thread. I admit that I still haven't played Brutal Doom, but I've watched several Youtube videos of it being played and it seems like a very impressive mod. Certainly an entertaining take on Doom's gameplay.

A lot of the objections seem to be that it's too "cartoonish", "over-the-top", "cheesy" or just plain "ridiculous". Valid objections I think, although they really come down to personal preference. But Phml said something early in the thread that I take objection to.


Phml said:
This mod seemingly manages to take every terrible modern feature and shove it into an old game, creating the worst possible scenario: a game with poor gameplay *and* outdated eyecandy. It could be an ironic depiction, a statement about the stereotypical FPS gamer, but now comes the frightening part: there is no irony here.

Reception to this mod has been overwhelmingly positive, and this was a bit of an eye opener to me. I tend to be an optimist at heart and intuitively believe people are (or can be) sensible, no matter how many times I'm proven wrong. When it came to Doom it used to be I'd sit in my little fluffy cloud, and any disturbance caused by people praising garbage would be merely temporary. Brutal Doom's consistent success is a permanent reminder this thing, this is what people want out of video games, even people playing Doom.

I don't share this sentiment at all. The "problems" with modern shooters as I see them are things like overattention to story and linear progression rather than focusing on traditional action and shoot-em-up gameplay. The example I'm sure that everyone has seen by now is the Call of Doomty parody.

But here's the thing: isn't a mod like Brutal Doom the exact opposite of that? If anything it's a return more to straight action-based gameplay (indeed, it's essentially that, turned up to 11). What I've seen reminds me more of Duke Nukem 3D than modern shooters. But perhaps I'm out of touch with modern shooters? What modern games is this like?

Old Post 12-07-12 21:21 #
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schwerpunk
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Re: Phml's post (quoted just above), if you replaced "Brutal Doom" with "hardware rendering," I would agree with it. Not that I object to hw-rendering's existence; I just don't understand its appeal.

So I'm not sure why some people object so fundamentally to Brutal Doom. As I've said, I find "vid_renderer 1" infinitely more offensive. So what's a few iron-sights and some reload-able weapons? Especially if the end result is faster paced, and more challenging game. It's not like the game is dumbed-down, or even rendered unnecessarily complex.

fraggle:Good comparison with Duke Nukem. I'd never thought about it, but the similarities between Brutal Doom and the Build Engine games are really obvious when you place them side-by-side.

P.S. as for eyecandy, I think Brutal Doom is beautiful, and I appreciate how amazing it looks in sw-mode.

Old Post 12-07-12 22:07 #
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rf`
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Grazza said:
This needs to be a tag. And maybe a tagtag.

[/newproject]

Old Post 12-08-12 06:12 #
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DooM_RO
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I fail to see how Brutal Doom is like a modern shooter. If anything, publishers would never allow such levels of violence in a game so how is it modern? Reloading?So what? Iron sights? Ironically the Doomguy always looks down the sights when using the shotgun, it's just that there is no zoom.

I agree that it's too over the top though, a lite version would be welcome.

If I were to compare BD to anything, it would be extremely spicy food... one of my friends (a casual doom fan) even called it "a weird kind of pornography" and I see what he's getting at.

Old Post 12-08-12 06:28 #
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Necromancer-AMV
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various people said:
Boo, I hate reloading and ironsights
The stereotypical modern FPS isn't bad because it has mechanics like reloading and ironsights or cover-based gameplay.

Moreover, taking said mechanics and putting them, through a mod, into an older game is not inherently a bad idea, nor does it irrevocably doom (lol) the finished product to being bad.

No, the stereotypical modern FPS is bad because of what it attempts to do, and largely succeeds in doing, with those mechanics; using them as filler to slow down player progression and make the single-player campaign seem longer that it is, so it will look like less of an afterthought to where the real meat of the game is, what really drives development in the mainstream of the genre today, and where the most money is to be made through DLC: the multiplayer.

Doom lives today for a lot of reasons, but I think one of those is that single player never took a backseat to multiplayer, and vice versa. Brutal Doom doesn't change that, just as no weapons mod for Doom has ever really changed that.

Last edited by Necromancer-AMV on 12-13-12 at 00:33

Old Post 12-12-12 21:40 #
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