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hardcore_gamer
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I have asked what you think are the best user made levels/wads before, but this time I am going to ask you what you think are the best AMATEUR levels instead.

Basically, an amateur wad is a level that isn't great but is still solid fun. We are talking about wads and levels that would typically get about 3 stars on /idgames.

The reason for why I am asking is that I can't help but feel that there is something special about these kinds of levels. The problem with most high profile wads that get the highest scores is that I have started to feel that they all feel a bit samey, but less known and less famous authors have a tendacy to make levels that contain more interesting and untypical ideas. That doesn't mean that their levels are always good, but it does make them feel different.

So basically, what do you think are the "best OK levels and wads"?

EDIT: You cannot list your own levels.

Last edited by hardcore_gamer on 11-20-12 at 10:19

Old Post 11-20-12 09:37
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GreyGhost
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hardcore_gamer said:
Basically, an amateur wad is a level that isn't great but is still solid fun. We are talking about wads and levels that would typically get about 3 stars on /idgames.
It's only the tyranny of distance that's keeping us from coming to blows over your preferred definition of amateur. :P

Old Post 11-20-12 10:45
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Phobus
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As an amateur is somebody who does something for no pay, the question the title of this thread is asking includes literally everything that wasn't commercialised.

As for "things that aren't so good that are good"... Sounds like an odd question, but I know the sort of thing you mean. Fun things that aren't particularly high quality don't stand out too well in memory I'm afraid, so I'd have to put a fair bit of research in to find one that counts. IIRC, one of my last /newstuff reviews (quite a while ago) was of a sewers map that played pretty well despite lacking in production quality.

Old Post 11-20-12 10:45
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Alwaysdoomed
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Are you talking in terms of gameplay or detail? Because it can really be either or. Some people may say OMFG THIS WAD HAS GREAT DETAIL IT MUST BE MADE BY A GREAT MAPPER, where as other people will say this wad sucks because the mapper pays no attention to gameplay or balance and tries to make up for it with lots of detail.

Old Post 11-20-12 10:53
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Alfonzo
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I'm going to attempt to respond to what it is I think you're trying to ask, which is for us to identify those maps whose charm comes from imperfections and a lack of conventional motif in design. Posed the way it is here, the question makes it sound as though you cannot achieve that sort of quality and at the same time manage a high rating on /idgames, which is a bit silly as the archive is teeming with mapsets that are both highly rated and visually poor + innovative -- .wads that are both new and old.

Just a few days ago on TangoTV (but not TV!) Jimmy brought up a very interesting observation in his lauding of Requiem (not a bad looking megawad by any stretch, granted), pointing out that its many flaws, niggles and oversights together only benefit the overall experience, and how it is made doubly unique when compared with the way modern megawads and mapsets are scrupulously playtested and analysed, with every crease ironed flat. It's not considered to be an "amateur" mapset at all, save perhaps for if you rightly lump the entirety of community-made efforts under the proper definition, and its clear that bad design doesn't have the monopoly on innovation or "that something special."

Of course, its true to say that newer mappers don't adhere to conventions as instinctively or necessarily as the seasoned, but there's no absolute.

Old Post 11-20-12 10:58
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Sokoro
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One tip would be Cygnus:
http://onemandoom.blogspot.cz/2012/...ygnusivwad.html

Old Post 11-20-12 11:37
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ComicMischief
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Plutonia 2. Because it's what I'm playing right now, and will probably be some other megaWAD I enjoy when I get around to another one.

Either way, I'm not going along with this redefinition of the word 'amateur'. Stop butchering the language.

Old Post 11-20-12 12:24
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40oz
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I seriously couldn't tell you what the okayest level I've ever played is.

Old Post 11-20-12 19:02
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NaturalTvventy
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It's kinda tough to recommend a WAD in this thread without sounding insulting.

Old Post 11-20-12 20:26
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Sokoro
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There is nothing insulting about the word Amateur. Just look it up on Wikipedia.

Old Post 11-20-12 21:22
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Snakes
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Uh... fuck, I don't know. Dinner?

Old Post 11-20-12 21:30
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valkiriforce
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Some of you guys on Doomworld can get waaaaay too technical about what was said. I think it's pretty clear what he's asking for. Something like The Enigma Episode, for example, looks amateur by today's standards; but that doesn't mean it doesn't have any kind of charm whatsoever. It's actually one of my favorite episode replacements because of the unique nature of the levels (those Mandelbrot textures and sky teleporters sure look funky). So it looks amateur but the gameplay feels more original than anything I've played that came out recently.

I think it was also of a good motivation behind something like the 1994 Tune-Up megawad; where they took amateur-looking levels that played great and tried to tune up the details so the levels not only played great but looked great as well.


ComicMischief said:
Plutonia 2.


I know everyone has their opinion, but I wouldn't think that would qualify as amateur. Especially considering it won a Cacoward, so it at least has some merit among players.

Old Post 11-20-12 21:33
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ComicMischief
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Everyone does have their opinion.


ComicMischief said:
I'm not going along with this redefinition of the word 'amateur'.


Plutonia 2 is a de facto amateur set of levels. The original Plutonia was professional, given that it was produced for money (albeit commissioned from two hitherto-amateur map designers) but since the 'sequel' was made for-free by amateur mappers, it is an amateur mapset. And it's one of my favourites.

I guess I should stop being a grammar-fetishist and play by the rules as set by OP ("derp, amateur is what I say it is, not what it actually means"), but average-at-best levels tend to be eminently forgettable to me. Sorry.

Old Post 11-20-12 22:16
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Grazza
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Yes, this is nonsense. The word "amateur" has a clear definition, so if you use it in a thread title, you've got to expect people to understand it to mean that.

If you then redefine that word in a nonsensical way, the thread is going to become a total clusterfuck of people talking at cross purposes.

Old Post 11-20-12 23:10
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