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mouldy
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Yeah its a bit of a slippery slope, you can start out fixing obvious errors and before you know it you are making cosmetic changes based on your own preferences. Maybe try PMing the authors if you are wanting to fix stuff that isn't obviously broken.

Old Post 03-01-14 14:44 #
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Antroid
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I'm not doing any of that apart from map09 I don't think. And that one should be accepted by you two before being added to the main wad, obviously.

Old Post 03-01-14 14:57 #
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mouldy
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Antroid said:
I'm not doing any of that apart from map09 I don't think. And that one should be accepted by you two before being added to the main wad, obviously.


I'm cool with the changes you made, its not really my map though so see what CorSair says.

Old Post 03-01-14 15:09 #
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Antroid
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There's some real funky lighting on map27 in the big lava area with the bridge and the huge marble castle thing - the lava is bright but the adjacent sectors are really dark, and the castle has one linedef randomly lit up with a thin triangular sector that leaves a very thin triangle of light on the floor. I'm not gonna touch the lighting at all (edit: even though that thin line of light on the floor pisses me off) but I'm very curious why it is like that. By the way, 23 is almost done, if not totally, but I fear that Eris' rampant barrel-removal might have upset the balance, and some barrel chains aren't so reliable anymore - someone will need to test the actual gameplay on 23 when I'm done with the misalignments and unpeggeds and whatnot. Both it and 27 will probably be done by tomorrow.

Also, Eris pls add the map19's "path to Best Secret sky wall" to the List so we don't forget: that's very easy to fix and IMO really necessary to fix, but I'm waiting for scifista's word on whether he'll do it or I should.

Edit2: actually no scratch that, I will absolutely tweak that lighting because the thin line of light on the floor pisses me off so much. It seems like a mistake anyway.

Last edited by Antroid on 03-01-14 at 17:03

Old Post 03-01-14 16:47 #
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Eris Falling
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I tried to preserve the barrels as best as I could. I think the only ones that were ruined were the ones at the very start. You might just be able to get away with adding 1 or 2 on each side, but I don't know how monsters affect the situation

Old Post 03-01-14 17:09 #
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axdoom1
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I found some bugs on map 5 and map 6. They are in my savegames, I saved right in front of where each on is. Also, map 7 is not vanilla-compatible because it will crash with a savegame buffer overrun (the file is too big).

Old Post 03-01-14 17:33 #
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Antroid
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map23 and 27 fix - preliminary version

To go into more detail: I have run through these and fixed a shitton of misalignments and unpegging issues, trying to leave anything that could even be mistaken for intentional in. All the brick cutoffs are still here, 99% of the illogical texture choices are here (I fixed only what definitely looked like overlooked missable mistakes), and 99% of the odd lighting is still here - apart from a small tweak around the marble castle thing in 27.
Although some misalignments are still there but I only left ones that were on big moving parts, so either before or after moving things are misaligned. That should be okay.
Some very minor and definitely unintrusive geometry tweaks: in the all-blue part of 23 I slightly lowered the windows upstairs so you can actually shoot the barrels up there with any sort of success, and moved a bit of slimefall that I think was supposed to look like one of those metal gargoyle faces was crying (well, there were two of them there) so that it looked better (i.e. so that it looked like it was actually coming out of it's eyes).
In 23 I also tweaked that one place where you teleport, appear on a lift down, and when you walk out of it it closes and enemies are revealed. First, there was a nasty visual bug in there due to how I presume it was intended to look (with the bars and sudden ceiling pop-in), and I took the liberty of removing that horrifically glitchy effect, to no loss IMO, and it was possible to get locked in there when the cage around the lift closed - I made it so if you get stuck in there, you at least get crushed by a crusher.
Oh and on 27 there was a teleport after the yellow key that deposited you right in front of the yellow door - I moved that destination closer to the middle so you at least have to remember where the door was in that room.
Lastly, on 23 there was a part early on with 4 switches, one pressable for progress and one shootable for secret, and I changed the shootable to pressable because come on. It looked identical to the pressable one and you still have to figure out what it does.

I believe that's all I did. I didn't test the gameplay, only that everything works, but I didn't make any chages to the gameplay either. Also something might crop up if I run through them a couple more times but for now I'm content that the tweaks are done.



axdoom1 said:
Also, map 7 is not vanilla-compatible because it will crash with a savegame buffer overrun (the file is too big).

I think a lot of the maps will have save buffer problems and it was agreed that we weren't gonna worry about that one aspect of vanilla compatibility.

Old Post 03-01-14 17:40 #
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Antroid
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Double-post but guess which map had a horrible bug that noone had noticed yet?

map29! WHAT

There was a gap in the invisible wall so you could fall off a building in the rooftop cyberdemon area. And, obviously, if you fall off THAT, you aren't getting back. Moved a couple vertices. Extremely important fix!

Also just in case, Eris, I would probably appreciate if you added a bit to the List about how map09's light tweak is awaiting CorSair's approval. Gotta keep track of everything!

On a barely related note, I've been looking through many maps of this (obviously) and I freaking love most of them. If not all. A conceptually-heavy megawad apparently was exactly what I've been dreaming of without even knowing it!

Old Post 03-02-14 03:10 #
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Ragnor
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Ive played two maps so far. Good stuff indeed, although I HAVE found bugs. Beta indeed :p

EDIT: In the text file, where it credits music:
"MAP12: MAP08/27/30 music (TNT: Evilution)" The track name is 'Into the Beast's Belly'

Last edited by Ragnor on 03-02-14 at 06:19

Old Post 03-02-14 06:05 #
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Eris Falling
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MAP29, 23, 27 integrated.
Ragnor, I can't seem to be able to reproduce the stuck imps in MAP01, and the second secret isn't broken, I've done it before, but I have forgotten how to get in there :P
You also should not be able to get back outside in MAP22 after entering that arena.
EDIT: The line was present, but the door wasn't tagged...


As for the TNT music, I'm just incredibly picky and don't regard that as an official title.

Old Post 03-02-14 09:31 #
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scifista42
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stuck imps
In MAP01, I sometimes experienced that one or two imps on the right ledge in the start area "fall deep below the floor" somehow and you can't see them or damage them anymore, unless you noclip to them. It specially happens when you take the left path first (still talking about the start, before the actual entryway). I believe the problem still might be there.

Also, it happened in Zandronum.

Old Post 03-02-14 09:42 #
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Ragnor
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Eris Falling said:
MAP29, 23, 27 integrated.
Ragnor, I can't seem to be able to reproduce the stuck imps in MAP01, and the second secret isn't broken, I've done it before, but I have forgotten how to get in there :P
You also should not be able to get back outside in MAP22 after entering that arena.
EDIT: The line was present, but the door wasn't tagged...


As for the TNT music, I'm just incredibly picky and don't regard that as an official title.



If you hang around the door and let it close on you, then charge forward then back, you'll trigger the monsters and be able to get back before the door closes :p Saved me much stress.

Yeah, those imps were on the right side Scifista. GZDoom for me. Noclipping didnt do a thing, they were literally absorbed into the ground

Old Post 03-02-14 10:17 #
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Eris Falling
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Possibly fixed. I just removed a slime trail that was only visible by flying, checked another 5 or so times, and it hasn't happened, so I think it might be fixed.

@Ragnor: Not anymore you won't >:)

Old Post 03-02-14 10:18 #
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Ragnor
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Did you absorb Kyka's love for oneway traps? :p

But yeah, again, I'll get back to you once I finish the whole level. I fucking hate this harddrive, the cable falls out of the thing at the drop of a hat sometimes. I would superglue it, but I dont know if that would fuck it up or not. Nothing like having it fall out during a huge fight. and having everything corrupt around you.

Old Post 03-02-14 10:28 #
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Antroid
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Someone PM Xaser to tell him we're expecting a sky tiling fix for wolfenstein or we'll do it ourselves. Something tells me he isn't just gonna stumble into this thread randomly.

Old Post 03-02-14 10:39 #
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Ragnor
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Finished Catacombs. I can tell why it got delayed so much, the red key section as it stands, gameplay wise, could be taken out and you pretty much wouldnt even notice the difference.

Highly enjoyable map, very atmospheric. As your first public non-scrapped map, its pretty damn good. No wonder you were one of the three "Best Newcomer" winners!

Only one gameplay bug for me, several automap ones. I'll send the usual picture-laden PM later, for now though, I'll test-play that game that came in the mail while I was busy with Catacombs :p

Old Post 03-03-14 04:49 #
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Antroid
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Ragnor said:
No wonder you were one of the three "Best Newcomer" winners!

Wait what? Where was that? I didn't see such a thing in the cacowards, now I'm curious :3

Old Post 03-03-14 05:59 #
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Ragnor
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Its on the side of Page 3. Eris, Obsidian and Scifista all won it :D

Old Post 03-03-14 08:16 #
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scifista42
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^ And none of us are "newcomers" in the year 2013, hehe. :)

(honestly I don't get why I was chosen, I haven't done nearly as much good as the other guys, also I release maps since 2012)

Old Post 03-03-14 08:37 #
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Antroid
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I propose a slight change of thread title again - to something like what Switcheroom 2 has right now. We're waiting for certain people to do certain things none of which are difficult or would take long to do. I'm sensing they're just completely missing the fact that we're waiting for them.

Apart from Eris himself (mapinfo and maybe map22's music), we got CorSair who has to approve/disapprove map09's tweaked lighting, scifista who has to fix his citadel-citadel secret so that it has no sky tiling visible at the access point (including if you decide to stand on the elevator when it comes back, positioning you higher than you could ever get before), and Xaser needs to either fix or state that he's alright with someone else fixing the numerous sky tiling issues in Wolfenstein.

Old Post 03-04-14 13:42 #
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Eris Falling
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I had a go at 31 myself, but didn't get very far. That bit that has the sky-tiling errors also has some drawseg overflows, though I didn't check if they're visible. I'll PM Xaser and CorSair later

Old Post 03-04-14 13:59 #
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Antroid
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Eris Falling said:
I'll PM Xaser and CorSair later

Don't forget scifista! he posted a few posts above but apparently didn't notice that he had a job to do.

Old Post 03-04-14 14:33 #
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Xaser
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For whatever reason, I'm the guy who's never bothered by sky tiling stuff, and the area I suspect is in question (the bridge leading out to the "well") would probably look a bit on the ugly side if all the holes are patched. Would someone mind posting screenshots/descriptions of the problem areas, though? All I can find is an off-hand mention somewhere in the thread after a quick search.

Introducing tiling skies would be the "best" solution as far as I'm concerned -- the E2 one posted a few pages back looks good to me, as it resembles water reflection so long as you can't see see the top of the tallest building down below. That only appears in one of the screenshots, which I'm thinking might be a result of noclip. :P

Also, bit of a pet peeve, but I've got to respond to this post snippet:

Antroid said:
I can't help but notice that in some maps, such as Citadel or Wolfenstein, there's some pretty obvious and horrific vertical sky tiling in places which could be easily avoided by adding some fences and whatnot. Why was nothing ever done about that?

Because nobody ever told me about it. D:

Old Post 03-04-14 14:52 #
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Eris Falling
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These are the only ones I'm aware of. Automap included for convenience
http://i.imgur.com/maz6KAgl.png

http://i.imgur.com/SND9nq5l.png
The angle you look out the windows at affects how much of the tiling you can see
http://i.imgur.com/if9u3H4l.png
The other side of the wall doesn't have the problem

http://i.imgur.com/P4Ul7Xjl.png
The lines of the podiums aren't impassable, and you can still stand on them. Setting them to impassable means you shouldn't have to raise the window floor as much

And that drawseg overflow I mentioned
http://i.imgur.com/sm4NePLl.png
But again, I don't know if they're actually visible, maybe the purple HOMs of renderlimits are max height

Old Post 03-04-14 15:09 #
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Antroid
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Xaser said:
Because nobody ever told me about it. D:

I am very confused about how is it even possible to make a map and not notice stuff like this (the last one Eris didn't screenshot, it's the very end. What's up with the floating towers, btw?).

Old Post 03-04-14 15:14 #
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scifista42
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I'm sorry, I actually overlooked that I had to do another fix. Here it is, just a simple fix to disallow the player to see a sky below him:

http://filesmelt.com/dl/citadel_march20141.zip

Antroid said:
I am very confused about how is it even possible to make a map and not notice stuff like this (the last one Eris didn't screenshot, it's the very end. What's up with the floating towers, btw?).
To be honest, I sympathetize with Xaser here. Before you noticed me, I've never even thought about this as a possible map fault. And even after, I see it as quite a "natural thing", a fault given by the engine imperfection itself. It's like if I complained about infinitely tall actors sliding corpses (can happen anywhere) or similar bugs and qualities of the engine which aren't very realistic. But of course, after seeing more people are concerned about this, I'm fixing the alleged errors to get everyone satisfied.

Last edited by scifista42 on 03-04-14 at 20:14

Old Post 03-04-14 15:41 #
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Antroid
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scifista42 said:
Here it is, just a simple fix to disallow the player to see a sky below him

Antroid said:
(including if you decide to stand on the elevator when it comes back, positioning you higher than you could ever get before)

That issue is still not fixed. You stand on the lift under the window and it brings you above all the walls again. Maybe you could have it a lowering floor that doesn't come back up instead of a lift? You can get out of there via teleport anyways.



scifista42 said:
And even after, I see it as quite a "natural thing", a fault given by the engine imperfection itself

This is a wrong attitude to have towards engine limitations IMO. You don't just expect to do anything you imagine and let the engine cripple it however it might want to later, you work around the limitations, keeping them in mind. The difference between things like this and things like "sliding corpses" is that things like this can be fixed and are the mapper's fault as much as the engine's, if not more, because the engine is perfectly capable of drawing a sky and it's the mapper's responsibility to cover all tiling if he chooses to show anything below horizon. Leaving in sky tiling for that reason is barely one step above making an open city/forest/whatever map that has HOMs everywhere because of vanilla limitions and saying that hey, the author's vision is a gta/skyrim-style environment, we all know the engine will have homs because it isn't suited for that kind of thing, let's pretend to not notice them.

Old Post 03-04-14 15:58 #
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scifista42
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Antroid said:
That issue is still not fixed. You stand on the lift under the window and it brings you above all the walls again. Maybe you could have it a lowering floor that doesn't come back up instead of a lift? You can get out of there via teleport anyways.
Good idea, okay I'll do it.

For the sky, I admit it's possible to fix and therefore better to be fixed. But anyways, it never really stroke me as a fault, my attention goes somewhere else than on the sky when I'm playing.

Old Post 03-04-14 16:08 #
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mouldy
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How about using a tiling hell sky?

Here's one I cobbled together, its not perfect but gives an idea:
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/a94a/ocfvto5cn7s7ssb4g.jpg

http://www.mediafire.com/download/q...sky3-tiled4.png

Old Post 03-04-14 16:47 #
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Antroid
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mouldy said:
How about using a tiling hell sky?

I think fixing one map is preferable to changing a sky for a project that didn't allow almost any new textures even... Let alone only one sky out of three, which will make it stand out without a good reason. All for a secret map. I'm not feelin' it.

Yours looks good in concept, however I can't not notice the vertical mirroring around the horizon, it could've been done without that (I did something fancy for my 200-tall hell sky some pages ago, I think I stretched out the last row of pixels and then did some photoshop filters on it, some distortions, noise, etc).

Old Post 03-04-14 17:40 #
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