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EffinghamHuffnagel
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Forgot to mention something on MAP11. With the map name "Circle of Death", will you be leaving the dehacked/automap name "'O' of Destruction!" or making the fix that id didn't? I get that "Circle of Destruction!" is too wide for the intermission screens, but I never understood why id didn't fix that in one of their many updates. Either changing the automap name to "Circle of Death" or adding a single quote to the font and changing the map name to "'O' of Destruction!". Or even just making a custom CWILV10 graphic that said 'O' of Destruction!. That's minor Photoshop work.

Old Post 04-28-14 18:55 #
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cannonball
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EffinghamHuffnagel said:
Sorry guys, I didn't mean to pee in the pool. If it had been textured differently with different item placement and monster choice or if the monsters sectors had lowered instead of rising or the central floor had dropped to the monster's level as you walked over it, I would have smiled and thought "nice change-up" and referred to the homage. But in Switcheroom, Ty cited specific sections of specific maps which were similar and then quoted the mapmaker's design comments from the thread. So yeah, Ty would have known about it.

No worries on my my part, just a quick fix to replace the relevant rooms
Map12
http://www.mediafire.com/download/j...actoryfinal.wad
A made a completely different room here, now a homage to the final area of the original.
Map15
http://www.mediafire.com/download/w...industfinal.wad
Same area but changed the central platform and the monsters in the lava.

Should both be fine now.

Old Post 04-28-14 18:59 #
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Eris Falling
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I'm not bothered about fixing MAP11's title, the map fits both titles.

I also missed the homage talk it seems, I must've been too busy with the deluded my ded simpl mapz awsom!!1 stuff that I found looking through the old thread.
*shudder*

Anyway, since I'm integrating 12 and 15, was I supposed to integrate the later 30 updates? I haven't yet in case they still being tested.

Old Post 04-28-14 19:16 #
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mouldy
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Eris Falling said:

Anyway, since I'm integrating 12 and 15, was I supposed to integrate the later 30 updates? I haven't yet in case they still being tested.



yeah, update map 30 to the last one I posted why not. Seems to work ok

Old Post 04-28-14 19:42 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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Just blazed through the new MAP12. I like the replacement area. "Nice homage!" The one line I mentioned is still not tagged as impassable, but that's such a remote possibility anyway. It was an AV attack and an accidental rocket jump that pushed me over the wall into the water.

Old Post 04-28-14 19:46 #
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ella guro
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scifista42 said:
It was me who had suggested to put homages in secrets. I remember saying so on one of the first pages in the original thread. Ella guro was in agreement with me. Copypaste / copyright issues didn't strike my mind at all at that time. Still, you know how I've approached the homage in MAP19 - safely. :)


seeing as i was mentioned here -

i don't really understand why people are worried about copyright given that these doom wads require the original IWAD to run in the first place. the only place i can see there being a concern is if they're TC's and run standalone or something. if people were that concerned about it they should also be concerned about the 8 billion wads that steal textures from Heretic or Strife or Hexen or Duke 3D, but no one is. so i really don't think anyone cares but in case they do, you can always credit that part from the original as not your own. that said, one of my favorite wads - A.L.T. has a section straight lifted from Doom 1 e1m8 and Doom 2 Map 01 in its Map 15, but it uses it very cleverly and the surprise would be totally ruined if it were in the readme.

there are some maps in this wad that, if i were making them, i would not choose to make them similar to the originals - because the original idea of the project was you're supposed to design them as if you had never played the originals. like Map 03 strikes me as too similar to the original Map 03 in a lot of places (regardless of the fact that it's not exactly a copy), but it's also not my level. so it's not as if one secret is the main culprit. so as a whole i don't think it's a huge problem, as long as you're not very heavy-handed with it - esp given that there several other places that reference the original anyway.

edit: but anyway, it's all up to you guys. i'm just happy to see that this project has gone somewhere cool, esp after i went m.i.a. without warning.

Last edited by ella guro on 04-28-14 at 21:31

Old Post 04-28-14 21:16 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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-------
MAP14
-------
Linedef tag 28, the W1 teleport line that takes you to the west hall with potions, helmets and ammo - I shot the Chaingunner with my chaingun, pushing him backwards across the teleport line. He ended up in the hall with no way for me to get there. Maybe the linedef should be WR?

Also in that west hall is linedef tag 29, which is set to W1 LowerFloorToLowestAdjacentFloor on sector 45, presumably to let you exit the hall. But currently, the linedef makes no sense as sector 45 is not blocking your exit from the hall. The floor height of sector 45 is set to 184, the same as the hall.

Before crossing linedef tag 29
http://imgur.com/ZqcmxaP.png

After crossing linedef tag 29
http://imgur.com/7segyXQ.png

I think the author's intent was that the hall should be hidden. I think the floor height should be raised to the ceiling height of 264.

Old Post 04-29-14 07:12 #
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Obsidian
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Heh, to think I made one of my first ever maps for this. Time flies.

Old Post 04-29-14 07:19 #
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_bruce_
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EffinghamHuffnagel said:
-------
MAP14
-------
Linedef tag 28, the W1 teleport line that takes you to the west hall with potions, helmets and ammo - I shot the Chaingunner with my chaingun, pushing him backwards across the teleport line. He ended up in the hall with no way for me to get there. Maybe the linedef should be WR?

Also in that west hall is linedef tag 29, which is set to W1 LowerFloorToLowestAdjacentFloor on sector 45, presumably to let you exit the hall. But currently, the linedef makes no sense as sector 45 is not blocking your exit from the hall. The floor height of sector 45 is set to 184, the same as the hall.

Before crossing linedef tag 29
http://imgur.com/ZqcmxaP.png

After crossing linedef tag 29
http://imgur.com/7segyXQ.png

I think the author's intent was that the hall should be hidden. I think the floor height should be raised to the ceiling height of 264.



Big thanks for your detailed report Effingham - errors will be fixed.

Old Post 04-29-14 10:51 #
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plums
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Obsidian said:
Heh, to think I made one of my first ever maps for this. Time flies.


What happened to it, did you pull it? I'd be curious to see if it's not too embarrassing ;)

Old Post 04-29-14 13:54 #
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Eris Falling
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Obsidian originally was doing MAP28. I think I vaguely remember it, but he never finished. I think one of rooms in mouldy's map does actually heavily resemble one of Obsidian's screenshots though.
as you can see, many mappers came and went with this project, even in that post it had changed quite a lot. I seem to recall alterworldruler and memfis had slots right back at the start.

Old Post 04-29-14 17:31 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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------
MAP15
------
Wow. Big Zone. And Industrial. First Rule of Industrial Zone - Kill everything that moves. Second Rule of Industrial Zone - see First Rule. Got lost more than once. I KNEW I wouldn't find all those damn potions and helmets to get 100% items. Yes, the new secret area has the flavor of the original without being too exact.

One issue I found - sector 497 (sector tag 33), the door that Opens/Closes to give access to the switch which opens the new secret area - it needs a DR Open/Close on the inside. You can get stuck in there.

Also in the secret exit room to MAP31, I suggest moving the secret tag from the sector in front of the well to the sector just inside the door. I was able to run off the ledge right over the top of the sector into the well exit without scoring the secret. I liked the idea of ending the level in mid-air.

Old Post 04-29-14 22:05 #
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mouldy
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Found a bug on map 22:

https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/8346/804bvfcagykqccn4g.jpg

The bars marked 1 close behind you but open again by themselves after a while. This means you can then go back through the round room and drop into the space marked 2 and be stuck there.

Old Post 04-30-14 00:17 #
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Obsidian
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plums said:


What happened to it, did you pull it? I'd be curious to see if it's not too embarrassing ;)



The first map I released to the archives was my first stab at a MAP28. Not my very first map of course, that particular disasterpiece lingers on my hard drive.

Old Post 04-30-14 00:24 #
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scifista42
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Obsidian said:
The first map I released to the archives was my first stab at a MAP28. Not my very first map of course, that particular disasterpiece lingers on my hard drive.
I've just found and replayed the map, and remembered it. It's very interesting to see how your distinct design style was already present back then. Although it seems like if you misunderstood the point of the project and made a sadistic homagefest instead. But I've enjoyed the map - now. :)

Old Post 04-30-14 09:05 #
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Elaxter
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Is there an Ultimate Doom in name only?

Old Post 04-30-14 23:23 #
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scifista42
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Elaxter said:
Is there an Ultimate Doom in name only?
Not yet. But starting the project is planned, and still postponed, for about a year. They're waiting till this D2INO project gets finished.

Old Post 04-30-14 23:30 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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------
MAP31
------
First, great looking map. THAT'S a WWII castle. Okay. Now, I've played through this 4 times now with ZDoom, doing things in a different order, changing paths. I still can't get 100% kills. There are three Lost Souls that never activate and teleport in.

http://i.imgur.com/YmCqRLI.png

I have shot guns in each of their destination sectors and all the sectors around those sectors trying to get them to hear and activate. Nothing. What's frustrating is that across the room in their monster closet is a Mancubus, who DOES hear and teleport in. Every time. Also, if you add those three Lost Souls to the number of kills in the picture, you'll find I'm still five monsters short. Again, that happens every time. I have clipped through the entire map looking for monsters behind cliffs and ledges, inside crates, barrels. I can't find them. Are there some hidden Keens somewhere? Does the Dehacked patch creating the Boss add to the monster count somehow?

------------
Not a bug, but an aesthetic inconsistency. This Yellow Key door, sector tag 12,

http://i.imgur.com/MhRLszQ.png

is the only one of the four yellow key doors to the teleport rooms that does not close after you pass through it. It makes sense to me only if those three Lost Souls actually activate and teleport to where they're supposed to: just outside that door. So if those three Lost Souls can be activated the door is fine the way it is because they could actually follow you into the teleport; if they can't be activated, then the door should probably be made SR Open/Close on both sides.

Last edited by EffinghamHuffnagel on 05-02-14 at 06:51

Old Post 05-02-14 06:46 #
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mouldy
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EffinghamHuffnagel said:
------
MAP31
------
There are three Lost Souls that never activate and teleport in.

http://i.imgur.com/YmCqRLI.png

I have shot guns in each of their destination sectors and all the sectors around those sectors trying to get them to hear and activate. Nothing.



It looks like the linedefs inside that monster closet are all set to block sound, so because there are 2 sound blocking lines between the joined sector and the lost souls, they won't hear anything.

Old Post 05-02-14 12:13 #
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joe-ilya
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This still isn't finished yet? You're like the slowest mappers in the community!

__________________
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Last edited by joe-ilya on 05-02-14 at 12:34

Old Post 05-02-14 12:28 #
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glenzinho
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joe-ilya said:
This still isn't finished yet? You're like the slowest mappers in the community!
That's true Joe, I was 14 when this started, now I'm 42!

Old Post 05-02-14 12:45 #
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plums
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joe-ilya said:
This still isn't finished yet? You're like the slowest mappers in the community!


I'm sure the D2INO team values this insightful feedback.

Anyhow I think the "holdup" is waiting for a few more players to play through the wad, which they shouldn't be rushed on.

Old Post 05-02-14 15:09 #
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Antroid
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I thought we were mostly waiting for some slowpokes to fix all the errors that have been pointed out. Sure, there's always the possibility that someone new will play through this and find more errors at some point, but this can probably go on forever. I think as soon as the list goes empty (fixers catch up to the feedback, in other words) this should be properly released. Surely anything really game-breaking and any noticeable visual flaws will have been caught by then.

Old Post 05-02-14 15:33 #
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cannonball
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EffinghamHuffnagel said:
------
MAP15
------
Wow. Big Zone. And Industrial. First Rule of Industrial Zone - Kill everything that moves. Second Rule of Industrial Zone - see First Rule. Got lost more than once. I KNEW I wouldn't find all those damn potions and helmets to get 100% items. Yes, the new secret area has the flavor of the original without being too exact.

One issue I found - sector 497 (sector tag 33), the door that Opens/Closes to give access to the switch which opens the new secret area - it needs a DR Open/Close on the inside. You can get stuck in there.

Also in the secret exit room to MAP31, I suggest moving the secret tag from the sector in front of the well to the sector just inside the door. I was able to run off the ledge right over the top of the sector into the well exit without scoring the secret. I liked the idea of ending the level in mid-air.


Fixed
http://www.mediafire.com/download/w...industfinal.wad

Old Post 05-02-14 17:03 #
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Eris Falling
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News just in: Apparently I can't dedicate the majority of my time to getting this finished.

Old Post 05-02-14 17:04 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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mouldy said:


It looks like the linedefs inside that monster closet are all set to block sound, so because there are 2 sound blocking lines between the joined sector and the lost souls, they won't hear anything.



Doh! All the staring I did and testing/checking of teleport destinations and I missed Block Sound tags?

I just tested to see if removing the Block Sound tags is enough or if the small piece of the joined sector 854 needs to be moved to the S of the Lost Souls and also have its Block Sound tagged removed like the Mancubus to the N. Yes, it's enough. Since the switch which lowers their teleport sector is the same one which lowers the Yellow Key, the Lost Souls can't move until you trip the switch. So just removing the Block Sound tags from the teleport linedefs (tags 23, 33 and 34) and line 6957, the one between them and the small piece of sector 854 is enough to fix the problem. Thanks, mouldy!

Interestingly, the sound sector to the N of the Mancubus (sector 176) is not joined to the area to which he teleports. It's joined to the sector in the Boss room. I'm guessing he was able to hear and teleport because of the common vertex to sector 854.

Again, 5 monsters short of 100% kills. No clue why.

Oh, and for giggles, I just verified that the Boss can not be resurrected by an AV, but he can be killed by one.

Old Post 05-02-14 19:40 #
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mouldy
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It does make me wonder why those lines were set to block sound in the first place, kind of odd for a teleport trap.. probably just a mistake though

Old Post 05-02-14 20:55 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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Yeah, the Block Sound on the Mancubus teleport linedef obviously isn't needed either.

Just ran through the map on all difficulties except Nightmare. Always 5 monsters short.

Can't obsess. Have to keep going.

Old Post 05-02-14 21:25 #
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mouldy
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EffinghamHuffnagel said:
Yeah, the Block Sound on the Mancubus teleport linedef obviously isn't needed either.

Just ran through the map on all difficulties except Nightmare. Always 5 monsters short.

Can't obsess. Have to keep going.



I just had a run through it myself and after noclipping to the 3 lost souls I finish with 100% kills. Maybe you are missing some imps high up on the battlements?

Old Post 05-02-14 21:56 #
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Xaser
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@Effingham: thanks for the playthrough! Dunno why I didn't notice the stuck souls, but it'll get fixeded.

The 5 monsters are probably the keens that are removed by the DEH. I probably forgot to uncheck the "count as monster" flag.

Old Post 05-02-14 23:02 #
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