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EffinghamHuffnagel
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Found one more thing in MAP31 - On the W side of the map there is a plasma gun in the slime. If you step off the walkway to get it, but only from one spot, you trigger linedef tag 30, which raises sector 715 on the E side by 8 units. No idea why, but it creates two missing second sidedef lower textures in the sectors next to it that don't rise and makes the bottom edge of the crate disappear. Also in the room just N of there is a sector tagged with missing linedef tag 50. Again, not sure why.

Maybe the missing Keens are registering because I'm using ZDoom. I try to avoid vanilla unless absolutely necessary. It makes me nauseous and gives me a blinding headache. I'm convinced vanilla Doom is the reason I now need computer glasses, different from my regular reading glasses.

Old Post 05-03-14 00:18 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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------
MAP16
------
Right in the first room the crate next to the Blur Sphere has a metal top flat, SLIME15.

http://i.imgur.com/2QE70HI.png

----
Plums referred to this door in the Yellow Key switch area.

http://i.imgur.com/1uVahgB.png

If the author's intent was to have a one-way door into the area and another one-way door out again, then the other door you use to enter (sector 757) needs its DR tag removed from the inside of the door. Otherwise, this door (sector 591) needs the DR tag added to its outside.

----
Plums mentioned the doors in the long halls past the Yellow Key door, that some are D1 StayOpen but most are D1 StayOpen with the insides of the doors as DR OpenClose. This only makes sense if the author's intent was for monsters to close the door as you're trying to open it, so you can't get in and are forced to try and kill them through the little window slot. There are no critical items in those rooms, so it's not a huge problem, just annoying as hell.

----
Plums said that one of the Chaingunners never got raised in the final battle, so I counted the Chainguns on the ground afterwards. All 21 were there, but I was still one monster short of 100%. I found the missing monster at the very end of the inaccessable hallway going south from the central room.

http://imgur.com/nJtIDLH.png

It's an Arch-Vile.

http://i.imgur.com/X1ShEN8.png

All the imps in the north and south hallways can see you when enter the central room, so they walk towards you and hit the teleport lines. The AV is around the corner and behind a Block Sound line, so he'll never activate. I see the intent. The AV should be the last to teleport, so he shows up after you've killed a lot of imps so he can resurrect them. And since he moves faster than the imps, he needs to be farther away. Best fix is probably to extend the hall maybe 1000 units and move the AV to the end where he can see you. Fastest is to put him in his own little sector where he is (for light level reasons) and join it with a sector in the central room so he can hear when combat starts.

Old Post 05-03-14 18:37 #
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Eris Falling
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Seems I fell behind again. I'll try and catch up this evening.

Old Post 05-03-14 18:47 #
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Eris Falling
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Done, with the exception of 31 and 14, I think Xaser and bruce are doing those?
I plan to release B8 when Effingham finishes, as I expect very few bugs will remain after then, and definitely none of them major.
If my fixes have been successful, I'm hoping that will be the final beta.

Old Post 05-03-14 21:58 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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MAP16 again - When I previously found the wrong flat on top of a crate, I thought it was a one-off; unique. I went through again and found a number of wrong flats on tops of objects, usually the same flat as the neighboring floor.

First room again - metal top to brick wall.

http://i.imgur.com/V1QLpVJ.png

Here are two wooden objects with rock tops. There is a third directly behind the green wall that you can't see.

http://i.imgur.com/VCU0Ckl.png

Desk and chair with same flat as floor.

http://i.imgur.com/eM4Lf8E.png

Wooden fence with rock top.

http://i.imgur.com/jAkfSys.png

Wooden fence, wooden slats and wall all with the same rock top. Top of wall should probably match underside of roof overhang.

http://i.imgur.com/A4kX9bx.png

Same fence from the corner. As a matter of fact, all the wooden fences have rock tops.

http://i.imgur.com/alw7C4t.png

BTW, I tool all these screenshots from legally accessible places. I did not clip to take any of them. I just increased the light level so they could be better seen. With clipping, you'd find more. I know all the wooden crates with Chaingunners on them and the wooden stakes on the E side have rock tops, but there's no way to legally see those, so I didn't bother.

Old Post 05-03-14 22:48 #
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_bruce_
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Yep, Map14 is mine. I'll upload it around midnight.

Old Post 05-04-14 12:41 #
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Da Werecat
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WIP. Or maybe not.

http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae293/da_werecat/Doom/name0.png

Old Post 05-04-14 15:48 #
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mouldy
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haha nice. Gets my vote

Old Post 05-04-14 16:40 #
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Eris Falling
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I also like that. I wonder if something similar could be done as an INTERPIC..

Old Post 05-04-14 16:43 #
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Antroid
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That could work quite well (unless the graphic is taken from somewhere and then just modified with the words, in which case I would be against using it in any way), although I'm starting to see the appeal of mouldy's idea of leaving only the name from the original and outright removing the background.

To be honest, the couple times I tried I had some trouble shading my initial picture to the style of the original titlepic, and I'm not sure I will manage to do it in any reasonable amount of time. It seems more complex than the more primitive styles I have had experience with and I dunno if I'll learn to do it well enough to be satisfied with the result. So for now we should use one of the other options.

Old Post 05-04-14 20:46 #
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Da Werecat
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Eris Falling said:
I wonder if something similar could be done as an INTERPIC..

Maybe I'll whack something together. I have an idea.


Antroid said:
(unless the graphic is taken from somewhere and then just modified with the words, in which case I would be against using it in any way)

I took the source image from my mobile phone, with which I photographed a dictionary, which also belongs to me.

Old Post 05-04-14 21:25 #
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_bruce_
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Great work Werecat - clever idea.

Changed illogical one way tele-trigger. Additionally a step is built to gain access to the secret passage once it has been visited via said teleporter - may come in handy during Deathmatch. Thanks again Effingham!

http://speedy.sh/UA4DV/Bruce-Map14.7z

Last edited by _bruce_ on 05-05-14 at 11:53

Old Post 05-04-14 21:38 #
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Antroid
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Da Werecat said:
I took the source image from my mobile phone, with which I photographed a dictionary, which also belongs to me.

I totally and completely believe you. That picture doesn't look like it was taken from some old game at all.

Old Post 05-05-14 06:05 #
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Gifty
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I'm not related to this project but I wanted to pop in and express my love for Werecat's titlepic.

Old Post 05-05-14 06:12 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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------
MAP19
------
Finally finished it.

Wow. Big. Really big. And dark. Really dark. I think the highest area light level I found was 144. Thank God for the Computer Map and glowing arrows. I was starting to feel like I was in the Winchester Mystery House in San Jose. Sarah Winchester kept building and building, adding on to the house for 38 years until the day she died. It has stairs that lead nowhere and doors that open into walls. This level isn't that bad, maybe more like 'The Incredible Machine', but I certainly felt that there were 2 or 3 levels worth of level in this level. Two Spiderbosses and six Cyberdemons? Wow again. The 'chutes and ladders' stairs area to the south could be a level by itself. With a few modifications, it might be an interesting deathmatch level.

I kept checking the automap to see how many more keyed doors I had left to open. This map is borderline almost too big and too complex. Towards the end I was feeling like "Please let me find the exit." Although that could be because I was trying to test/find everything. The arrows helped a lot. Speaking of glowing arrows, the first glowing arrow at the beginning points to a miniature of 'The Citadel' and the teleport takes you there. When I got there, I noticed the front door was flickering. I realized that the miniature had not had a flickering front door. I kind of wished it had. Kind of like the opening of 'Young Frankenstein' with a dark castle and one lit window. Kind of a small, wooden, barely able to be seen, flickering area that could pass for a door. Kind of like this.

http://i.imgur.com/BUGHEGg.png

I had to clip to take this shot. The flickering doesn't show up well from a distance. It can be seen from the start arrow and from here

http://i.imgur.com/3kCu1Nb.png

If you zoom in you can see it just above the crosshair. Just a thought.

---
Not an error, just a curiosity. Before I even got to the first combat, the automap said I already had 33 kills. I assume there was a game mechanics reason for this (maybe deathmatch?). Odd.

---
So I finished the map with two Yellow Skull Keys. Yes, two Yellow Keys. And I got them both legally. There's a spot where a Rad Suit gets you to an Invulnerability, then an almost immediate rocket jump up a lava fall step, then a lot of running through lava, and you get to the second Yellow Key and another Invulnerability. I'm not sure why a second Yellow Key was needed. The first one was not impossible to get. Oh, and on the way to the second key, there is a deathtrap in a side area that the author felt you couldn't get to legally. You can.

---
Three kills short of 100%. There's a Barons/Hell Knight area next to teleport linedef tag 199. They're set to activate when they hear combat in sector 1798, sector tag 95. The problem is, they're all deaf.

---
So there are technically four exits to this map, only one of which is available to single player, but two ways to get to that exit. One exit line is tagged impassable and used as a false exit, and the other two are multi-player only. Before I exited, I clipped and hit the switch to check out the multiplayer exit area to the east of the single player exit. Cool use of the Demon face. But I didn't see how to get there legally. I didn't see any deathmatch starts or player teleport spots in that area and I know the walls don't fall. Was this area started and then abandoned?

So, for a map this size, only one real error and a couple of odd things. All things considered, cool map. I liked it.

Old Post 05-05-14 06:58 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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Just saw Werecat's titlepic. I smiled. Very nice.

Old Post 05-05-14 06:59 #
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Da Werecat
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Thanks, everyone.


Antroid said:
That picture doesn't look like it was taken from some old game at all.

I'm flattered. :)

Old Post 05-05-14 10:09 #
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Antroid
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Da Werecat said:
I'm flattered. :)

Well, serious time, if you actually genuinely drew that (over a photo of a dictionary perhaps?) then it's freaking amazing work and matches the style of art from many old games to a T.
Understandably I'm struggling to believe it but what the hell, great job anyways.

Old Post 05-05-14 11:34 #
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Da Werecat
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Antroid said:
(over a photo of a dictionary perhaps?)

Yeah, well, yeah.

To clear things once and for all.

Old Post 05-05-14 13:50 #
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FireFish
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cool titlepic Da Werecat, has this old school feel to it.

looking forward to playing the final release of this, the last beta i played some months ago was nice, although i got stuck in a lot of the early levels.

Old Post 05-05-14 13:59 #
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scifista42
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EffinghamHuffnagel said:
So I finished the map with two Yellow Skull Keys. Yes, two Yellow Keys. And I got them both legally. There's a spot where a Rad Suit gets you to an Invulnerability, then an almost immediate rocket jump up a lava fall step, then a lot of running through lava, and you get to the second Yellow Key and another Invulnerability. I'm not sure why a second Yellow Key was needed. The first one was not impossible to get. Oh, and on the way to the second key, there is a deathtrap in a side area that the author felt you couldn't get to legally. You can.
You cannot. Remember, jumping and rocket jumping are not "legal" in a vanilla mapset. EDIT: And using freelooking to rocket jump.

So there are technically four exits to this map, only one of which is available to single player, but two ways to get to that exit. One exit line is tagged impassable and used as a false exit, and the other two are multi-player only. Before I exited, I clipped and hit the switch to check out the multiplayer exit area to the east of the single player exit. Cool use of the Demon face. But I didn't see how to get there legally. I didn't see any deathmatch starts or player teleport spots in that area and I know the walls don't fall. Was this area started and then abandoned?
It works, but only in multiplayer, it's dependant on a trick involving MP-only monsters. Read about the trick in my post here: http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mo...ere-come-on/85/

Thanks for playing, I'm glad you liked it. :) The little things you mentioned are such minor that I can fix them quickly.

Eris, have you or haven't you been doing changes to MAP19 yet?

Last edited by scifista42 on 05-05-14 at 15:51

Old Post 05-05-14 15:25 #
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Eris Falling
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You shouldn't be able to jump anyway. I didn't test every map though, so I'll have another look.
e: code is fine. How are you jumping?

nvm, only via rockets.

I haven't done MAP19 yet, did you want to scifista?

Old Post 05-05-14 15:40 #
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scifista42
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If you've started or if you have a clear vision of what exactly to fix or change, feel free to take care of it completely yourself, or to let the duty on me if you want. Whatever you consider the best at the moment, it doesn't matter. As far as I've understood, there are just small things to fix, and I don't really mind doing so. Sorry for not actually doing or saying anything yet, though.

Old Post 05-05-14 15:50 #
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mouldy
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Here's a quick idea I had for an interpic, though its not very colourful or exciting
https://www.mediafire.com/convkey/5fc7/17y6iba8r6w95zc4g.jpg
kind of doom 2 going back to the drawing board.. now i think about it i dunno if i'd want to look at that after every map, but there it is anyway.

Old Post 05-05-14 15:52 #
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Eris Falling
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I might as well do it. Saves a load of file transfers.
Also, since I'm properly reading Effingham's post now


EffinghamHuffnagel said:
------
MAP19
------
Speaking of glowing arrows, the first glowing arrow at the beginning points to a miniature of 'The Citadel'



WHAT.
I did not notice this! That's right up there with the homage for me.
Brilliance :D


Not an error, just a curiosity. Before I even got to the first combat, the automap said I already had 33 kills. I assume there was a game mechanics reason for this (maybe deathmatch?). Odd.


Some crushers detonate barrels which kill 33 monsters in the chapel. They're later resurrected when you go there. I shamelessly pilfered that idea for MAP22, so same explanation for when you get to that.

mouldy: I like that idea, but I'm wondering how well the lettering will show up. Particularly the grey level names.

Old Post 05-05-14 16:02 #
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scifista42
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Thanks, Eris.

The abovementioned miniature of the Citadel is in fact a miniature of my Citadel, not Doom 2 one's.


EDIT: Not bad, mouldy, but my heart says: Da Werecat's INTERPIC for the win! :)

Old Post 05-05-14 16:07 #
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mouldy
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Eris Falling said:


mouldy: I like that idea, but I'm wondering how well the lettering will show up. Particularly the grey level names.



Yeah not really sure about it for a background image. Feel free to use it anywhere else you want though, or not at all. I always think a screenshot from one of the maps always works well as an interpic.

Old Post 05-05-14 16:07 #
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EffinghamHuffnagel
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scifista42 said:
You cannot. Remember, jumping and rocket jumping are not "legal" in a vanilla mapset. EDIT: And using freelooking to rocket jump.


You are absolutely right, sir. I had forgotten. I stand corrected. But... doesn't that mean the secret at the end is unreachable? I didn't see any teleport spots past the lava stair. And no sector tags to lower the two top steps at least 4 units each so you could run up them. So why is that area there?

EDIT: I just thought maybe AV-jump, but there's no AV in the area either.

------
MAP21
------
What a delight to have this appropriately named map after the vastness and volume of MAP19 and the constant tension and threat of massive nearby death of MAP20 (which is beautifully designed and balanced BTW; at the start I was screaming "WTF!" and running for someplace to hide. At the end, all I had left was three beat-up Cybers to deal with). Even if you have to start over, this map is a great tension-breaker. Well, to start with. I didn't expect to punch Demons to conserve ammo at this point in the game. And "I want my... I want my... I want my... SSG". I hope there's one near the start of MAP22. And great, really appropriate-feeling music.

---
Not an error, but an inconsistency. The Blue Key door as tagged D1 StayOpen on one side and the Red Key door is tagged DR Open/Close on both sides. I understand the red door because of the AV. Author's prerogative on the blue door, I guess.

---
One monster short. The Pain Elemental never teleported in. I'm thinking it needs more than 56 units of height to cross the teleport line that drops to 8 above the floor in his closet.

Old Post 05-05-14 16:36 #
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Antroid
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Da Werecat said:
Yeah, well, yeah.

Bhah. And I thought you were being super sarcastic when you were talking about the photo and dictionary that also belong to you. Like you purposefully were writing something very silly to make a point about how I shouldn't mind you taking the picture from some game or something. Turns out it was just plain true. Oops! :I Sorry.

I guess I'll just save my drawing for some other random wad, provided I'm ever able to shade it properly of course. Your picture seems much more fitting, and it also already exists which is a definite plus.

Old Post 05-05-14 17:01 #
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plums
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EffinghamHuffnagel said:
You are absolutely right, sir. I had forgotten. I stand corrected. But... doesn't that mean the secret at the end is unreachable? I didn't see any teleport spots past the lava stair. And no sector tags to lower the two top steps at least 4 units each so you could run up them. So why is that area there?


If you're talking about the area up the lava falls, you get there by "horizontal rocket jumping" from the non-lava sector, which is still possible in Doom. This is also something you can do in ZDoom, even if you turn mouselook off. Of course mouselook makes it easier, and presents you with this strange situation where one rocket-jump seems required but a second seems "forbidden", but that's maybe just something the author/the players have to live with in using ZDoom abilities in a vanilla mapset. (It's possible to force mouselook off, but I highly recommend against doing that, since it really changes how the player can play much worse than something like disabling jumping.)

Old Post 05-05-14 17:29 #
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