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mouldy
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If we collate any obvious MP issues from the TNS sessions then that should cover the bulk of the problems, and I don't mind fixing stuff for mappers who aren't around.

Old Post 03-07-14 14:06 #
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scifista42
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So, MAP07 was bugged in ZDaemon. But people at TNS somehow "fixed" it (?). Barrels killing some dummy mancubi were the problem. Should I care about doing a correction?

Old Post 03-07-14 14:07 #
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Memfis
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Yeah, the problem is that in ZDaemon the barrels were turning into tiny puddles of blood instead of exploding and thus not killing one spider and one mancubus. We were able to get around that because we have some cool scripts for "debugging" maps on the go. In that case we used a script for killing these monsters manually.

I believe this is a ZDaemon bug so I'm going to report it and you don't need to change anything I guess.

edit: or no, I think they DO explode from being crushed but for some reason that doesn't do any damage to anything around them. Hope the ZDaemon devs will be able to figure it out.

edit2: here is my thread - http://forums.zdaemon.org/viewtopic.php?t=15870

Last edited by Memfis on 03-07-14 at 15:11

Old Post 03-07-14 14:29 #
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Alteus
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From what mem wrote in previous post, I had a hunch this evening and enabled infinite tall actors in server (we always play with it off) and it seems it fixed map07 barrel explosion. We will have to check if this extends to other ports that allow disabling tall actors... if not, it is probably a ZD feature (bug :)) and will have to be solved there.

Old Post 03-07-14 16:23 #
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Caleb13
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As others have mentioned before, some maps have areas that become locked and inaccessible players during multiplayer, typically in trap-like or arena-like rooms. That becomes a problem if a players which triggers the trap dies inside. To make things easier, here is a list of problematic areas I remember from MP TNS game and also from my SP playthrough:

MAP01: Make the bars near exit (sector 4) openable from the outside.

MAP04: In multiplayer, add more radiation suits near exit (inside sector 158).

MAP05: Maybe add some more ammo at the start in multiplayer, so the players can better deal with the archvile etc.

MAP06: Make door (sector 246) to the yellow key room/crusher openable from the outside.

MAP07: Zdaemon issues aside, I personally run into problems on Zdoom when I played beta v6 in SP (it worked fine in beta v5). For some reason, sectors 36 and 39 rose two times, making them too high to climb. At first they rose to correct height, but then they rose again when I was running around, waiting for the bars to lower.

MAP08: Not really a bug, but lift (sector 84) can be activated by pressing its wall (linedef 671), making the switch (linedef 733) redundant.

MAP09: Make entrance to the eastern cavern (sector 412) openable from the outside. I think sector 280 will need such fix, too.

MAP10: Make the flesh mass (sector 650) behind the red door lowerable from the outside.

MAP11: Add more radation suits near start and especially into the lava pit below. It would be also nice if you could make the gap between sectors 332 and 340 narrower - it is rather easy to fall into the lava in multiplayer. Zdaemon is pretty choppy (35 fps) and ping delay makes it even worse.

MAP13: Make the bars (sector 379) to the final valley openable from the outside.

MAP17: The switch (linedef 629) for lift (sector 49) is redundant, because the lift can be activated directly.

MAP19: Make demon panels (sector 629) which block exit from red key area openable from the outside.

MAP34: Linedef 62 which starts the lift should IMO be longer - if the player goes for soulsphere (instead of directly ahead), he might miss it and be quickly killed by the cybs.

Old Post 03-07-14 20:21 #
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cannonball
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Newer version of map21
http://www.mediafire.com/download/r...k/cbnirvana.wad

Removed previous exit room and placed it behind the yellow door.
Remove a lot of needless monsters to give a quieter atmosphere and not reduce difficulty
a few visual changes
Deathmatch starts and items added.
This should be good to go now along with map12.

Map15... hmm......

Old Post 03-07-14 20:39 #
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Eris Falling
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Cheers Caleb, added all to the to-do list


cannonball said:
Map15... hmm......


You should totally get rid of that MP-only Mastermind sniper that killed me even though I was actually doing pretty well yesterday :P

Old Post 03-07-14 20:42 #
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Antroid
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Caleb13 said:
MAP04: In multiplayer, add more radiation suits near exit (inside sector 158).

sure, why not
Expanded sector 158 a bit and added a shitton of radsuits tagged "multiplayer". Also just for shits and giggles changed the stupid tekwall in the yellow key room to a window outside. Does all that work? If some multiplayer mobs or weapons are needed, Eris or whoever can go ahead and add them, I'm fine with it as long as nothing else is secretly changed.

Old Post 03-07-14 21:12 #
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Pirx
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Antroid said:

Did you make sure to use the deh file as well as the wad file? The way out of the throne room opens when you kill a custom enemy added in the deh.



ok, i finally got to play this again, now with the deh file. your, um, custom enemy rose from the throne... and got flattened by a single rocket. he should have more hitpoints judging by that deh file... the wall still didn't open. interesting. might try another port.



Dunno what's up with 07 though, it always worked for me. Did you have a save at that moment? It should be possible to noclip to where the enemies spawn from and see if anyone's left and if someone is, where exactly (one of the guys who spawn or one of the guys who are supposed to be killed before even spawning, for example).



yep, i saved. problem solved.

Old Post 03-08-14 00:27 #
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an_mutt
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I have updates for my maps yet again:


Caleb13 said:
Here is a list of problematic areas I remember from MP TNS game and also from my SP playthrough:

MAP05: Maybe add some more ammo at the start in multiplayer, so the players can better deal with the archvile etc.


The Vile's been turned into a trio of Revenants and a small number of additional items have been added to the first room, including additional rad suits. I'd like feedback on the choice of turning the vile into the revs, as I'm not sure on which to go with. Anyway, the newest version of the map can be found here.


MAP08: Not really a bug, but lift (sector 84) can be activated by pressing its wall (linedef 671), making the switch (linedef 733) redundant.

Fixed this, along with a lot of texturing that I felt needed work. Map 08 download.


MAP17: The switch (linedef 629) for lift (sector 49) is redundant, because the lift can be activated directly.

I'm honestly too lazy to fix this, as it's not important! :V Map 17

Old Post 03-08-14 02:07 #
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Antroid
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Hey Eris! Two things. First, I think you probably should add a link to the map09 fix to The List so that CorSair, if he ever returns, won't have to search through the thread for it.

And also I still think you should add the DEH file directly to the wad in addition to including it separately, for the ports that can work with that.

Old Post 03-08-14 09:18 #
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scifista42
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Caleb13 said:
MAP19: Make demon panels (sector 629) which block exit from red key area openable from the outside.
I don't want to. There's still a (secret) way how to access the area. It'd need to change some other mechanics too. (But definitely it would be possible.)


MAP07: sectors 36 and 39 rose two times
That's a really rare bug caused by wrong timing with killing arachnotrons. It cannot improve. The sectors already raise the maximum height vanilla allows for this 667-special, which is 64 units. It's MUCH safer than in the original MAP07.

Old Post 03-08-14 11:34 #
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Antroid
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Does the bug always result in the sectors rising two times? Perhaps there could be a sort of failsafe switch that would fix them, and you can only reach it if the sectors have risen twice? Although I guess it could confuse people who would think it was a secret...

Old Post 03-08-14 12:27 #
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Eris Falling
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The sectors rising twice is the bug. It's something like if the last arachnotron is killed before the death animation of the 2nd to last has finished, it raises twice. It can happen in any Tag 667 map

Old Post 03-08-14 13:49 #
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mouldy
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You could just stick a SR-lift-lower-wait-raise on the staircase maybe?

Old Post 03-08-14 14:11 #
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Antroid
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mouldy said:
You could just stick a SR-lift-lower-wait-raise on the staircase maybe?

That's much better than my idea. Simple and brilliant :D

Old Post 03-08-14 15:07 #
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Caleb13
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scifista42 said:
I don't want to. There's still a (secret) way how to access the area. It'd need to change some other mechanics too. (But definitely it would be possible.)


Oh OK, I see it now. Hopefully, the players will find/remember the alternate way if the red key area becomes inaccessible in multiplayer. However, there are some other issues in MAP19 that are worth mentioning, IMO:

-Stairs (sectors 1760 to 1763) leading to the fiery super secret area (sector 1379) are too high to climb (in Zdoom 2.7.1). Or am I supposed to use archvile jump or cyber-rocket-under-my-feet jump?

-For some reason, 3 barons (thing 1612 etc.) didn't teleport in after I grabbed the plasma gun (thing 280). Again, in Zdoom 2.7.1.

-In multiplayer, maybe you could add a few more radiation suits around lava areas (sectors 157 and 625).

Old Post 03-08-14 17:04 #
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Caleb13
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Okay, I played the rest of the maps in SP and here is list of potential problems I noticed:

MAP22: Make the teleporter (linedef 4231) to the final arena reusable (needed for multiplayer).

MAP22: Make the entrance trap door (sector 40) openable from the outside. This is bug anyway, because if the player teleports out via linedefs 7549 or 7550 to grab the secret soulsphere (thing 46), he/she is stuck outside.

MAP23: I know the player is supposed to kill him via barrel explosions, but chaingunner (thing 70) is really nasty (especially after pistol start), because it is not apparent where he is. This IMO needs some visual cue (window or whatever) on the wall, because nobody will pay much attention to the torch (thing 25) while under fire.

MAP23: Secret sector 93 is too narrow, it can't be "found" in Zdoom 2.7.1.

MAP23: In multiplayer, add more radiation suits before players enter sector 293.

MAP23: Make the door to the final mastermind arena (sector 100) re-openable from the outside.

MAP26: In multiplayer, add radiation suits around damaging areas near start (sectors 12, 58 etc.).

MAP27: For some reason, at least 2 lost souls always get stuck among impaled humans (things 717 to 726).

MAP27: Four spectres (things 139 to 142) are too close to wall - if you shoot at linedef 512, you can kill them before opening the trap door (sector 97).

MAP27: Are sectors 766, 774, 780 etc. really supposed to be damaging? If yes, add radiation suits for multiplayer around this area.

MAP27: Are sectors 288, 289 and 466 supposed to be damaging?

MAP27: Sectors 614 and 615 are marked as secret, even though they are purely decorative.

MAP28: Flying monsters get stuck in sector 200. Make its linedefs impassable to monsters. This may be applicable to other similar sectors in this area.

MAP28: Secret sector 797 is too small and therefore the secret cannot be "found" very reliably.

Last edited by Caleb13 on 03-09-14 at 18:42

Old Post 03-09-14 15:19 #
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Antroid
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I'll take care of maps 23 and 27 I guess, seeing as I've been fixing them up until now, although not right now - tomorrow, maybe.

Old Post 03-09-14 15:42 #
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mouldy
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Caleb13 said:


MAP28: Flying monsters get stuck in sector 200. Make its linedefs impassable to monsters. This may be applicable to other similar sectors in this area.

MAP28: Secret sector 797 is too small and therefore the secret cannot be "found" very reliably.



cheers, seeing as those aren't deadly problems I'll wait and see if any other issues arise from general testing and sort it all out in one go.

Old Post 03-09-14 15:52 #
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Joseph Lord
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1 month of vacations and all things are happening here!
first of all: thanks to android and mouldy for had corrected my maps and srry for my irresponsability.
So antroid, now i can take care it, but need the maps corrected first.
Thanks!

Old Post 03-12-14 01:40 #
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Antroid
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Joseph Lord said:
So antroid, now i can take care it, but need the maps corrected first.

You sure you wanna do it? I really don't mind fixing these last errors. But if you want to, just grab BETA VI from the OP, it includes the latest versions of map23 and map27 with all my fixes so far.
You should probably also take a look at that marble castle front in map27 (with all the lava and a bridge), because I feel like that's the one place where I might've overstepped my bounds, even if I really didn't like the lighting as it was there before. If you had a specific look in mind for that place, obviously feel free to bring it back (only try to be more neat about it :P ).
And you could also run through 23 to see if Eris removed too many barrels anywhere, although if you decide to add more again, please be mindful of the sprites-on-screen vanilla limitation.

Old Post 03-12-14 06:38 #
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Eris Falling
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Says in my code tags that 27 was changed since B6, and there's too many changes to be made elsewhere for me to upload the next one

Old Post 03-12-14 08:52 #
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Antroid
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Huh? I thought the sky cutoff fix was included in VI. Maybe I mixed things up.

In any case, here's the latest map27.

Old Post 03-12-14 09:53 #
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Antroid
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So where's everyone gone again? This is getting annoying. There's nothing left to fix that would take so much time!

Old Post 03-16-14 00:23 #
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cannonball
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Antroid said:
So where's everyone gone again? This is getting annoying. There's nothing left to fix that would take so much time!

I'm just about finished on my revised version of Industrial Zone, other than that and maybe a few other fixes then I think we are waiting on the second half of the TNS playthrough to spot any other potential bugs. From my point of few this wad should be good to go by next weekend.

Old Post 03-16-14 10:28 #
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Eris Falling
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Whoops!
My intention was to get that lot fixed and then TNS part 2 (I think Alteus said this coming thursday) can use B7. A lot of those fixes seem to be pretty minor, I'll go round them later.

EDIT: Copypasted Caleb's next set of stuff into the OP, but AFAIK, authors were already working on these. An update from them would be nice.

Last edited by Eris Falling on 03-16-14 at 10:55

Old Post 03-16-14 10:33 #
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cannonball
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Final version of Industrial Zone (Hopefully)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/w...industfinal.wad

Changes
A lot of visual changes
Dropped the monster count a lot to around 450 (instead of nearly 600), the map should retain the same amount of chaos as before.
Progression changed (Yellow and blue keys can now be picked up in any order)
Few other tweaks here and there.
Overall this should play a little nicer and looks a bit better, I went round the level and stomped out as many homs could find but no guarantees, so if there is some somewhere (or any other issues), please tell me :P

Old Post 03-19-14 00:04 #
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Antroid
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Eris I honestly think you should impose some sort of deadline (end of month?) after which we just fix everything ourselves without having to wait for who-knows-what. Seriously, most of these fixes can be done in an evening.

Old Post 03-19-14 07:54 #
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Eris Falling
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I agree. I was considering doing it anyway, since the stuff doesn't seem to be happening, but I had an assignment I wanted to get out the way first, which I now have.
This weeks TNS session is using B6, like the first part, so things will be broken, as noted in Caleb's post about the later maps. Which isn't a huge problem, I'll just see if any additional bugs turn up from it, then I'll start going through the list.

Old Post 03-19-14 08:51 #
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