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Ribbiks
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started playing through this, many maps look familiar so I guess I played through a beta or something awhile back: fda

got up to map07, which started dragging obscenely so I stopped caring, it was like a ToD map gone wrong. Perhaps there's some irony that the title is Dead Simple, yet the map is a behemoth of stochastically textured triangles. map01 and 06 were the strongest by a good margin (of what I've seen thus far). The stressful platforming/maze areas and overally extremely interwoven layout puts map06 as my favorite.

Many questionable midi choices ... long maps + short midi = :((

Old Post 06-29-14 00:36 #
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plums
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Ribbiks said:
got up to map07, which started dragging obscenely so I stopped caring, it was like a ToD map gone wrong. Perhaps there's some irony that the title is Dead Simple, yet the map is a behemoth of stochastically textured triangles. map01 and 06 were the strongest by a good margin (of what I've seen thus far). The stressful platforming/maze areas and overally extremely interwoven layout puts map06 as my favorite.


Interestingly MAP07 originally had a very long platforming section too. Got taken out after too many people complained, but I enjoyed it.

Old Post 06-29-14 02:38 #
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Antroid
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Man if the megawad club picks this, I gotta get used to people hating on map04. I'm gonna make an educated guess and say that it won't be very well-received at all because it IS fairly linear and dull. Although I'm hoping that at least the warm reception that 24 and 29 got in the thread is representative of what the larger crowd will think.

Also I've just looked at the idgames link and while mostly the reviews seem good, I'm puzzled by the few people that say that this has MANY bad maps. As some of the comments in there also said, I can't really think of any. Maybe indeed some not up to par (like 04), but surely most of these maps are pretty great. I mean obviously tastes differ and all that, but it seems to me that none of these maps have anything worth calling them bad over, they're all fairly standard Doom fare with slightly stronger concepts behind them, which only makes them more interesting than usual.

Or does everyone really want the same super-interconnected-crossfirey-smoothly-flowing maps that are the only thing some of the older players still seem to enjoy? I can't imagine everyone is so averse to a bit of linearity, or backtracking, or a lapse in action every so often. Those seem like the biggest faults I could find with any of the maps, and they aren't even faults in my eyes, I think things like that enhance a map.

Also for how satisfied I was with 24 and 29, it's kinda disappointing to not see a single person mention them yet. Oh well.

P.s. how do you register on idgames? I kinda want to leave a rating or something too, but it's only offering me to comment as anonymous which I don't really want.

Old Post 06-29-14 10:27 #
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Eris Falling
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Antroid said:
Man if the megawad club picks this, I gotta get used to people hating on map04.

And I'm cancelling the 4th Tuesday.
For idgames, it's just connected to your DW account. Not sure why you would be only able to comment as anonymous.

Uh, yeah I don't think Jay is going to be back here any time soon, though I'm still not sure if he even knows we're waiting for him.

I might lead the prequel, but only because I want to see Jay's orders used, I'm not sure if I can ask for that if someone else led it.

I think I nearly know sort of what I'm supposed to be doing in project lead after this, so I'd be less mistake-prone hopefully.
Perhaps it is worth condensing Jay's blueprints and posting them here

Old Post 06-29-14 12:57 #
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Antroid
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Eris Falling said:
And I'm cancelling the 4th Tuesday.

I have no idea what this means :> Explain for the unenlightened?

And you should totally lead the prequel. I would have zero objections. Only perhaps let's be more critical of each other's maps and enforce fixing whatever fuck-ups people find as a criteria for acceptance into the wad?

Old Post 06-29-14 13:03 #
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Obsidian
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I didn't quite get MAP07 either, it's quite the behemoth for an early slot. And I wouldn't mind making a map for the prequel as well: I don't suppose I could net Spawning Vats, could I?

Old Post 06-29-14 13:18 #
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Eris Falling
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Does this help? :)
http://i.imgur.com/bVRwDM3.png


Only perhaps let's be more critical of each other's maps


DEFINITELY THIS
While I'm more than happy with the overall quality of D2INO, I think I was too lax with quality control.
Probably because I was off in my own little world half the time, but anyway, yeah.

I didn't want to do this, but I'll drop Jay a PM over shitbook. Chances are the e-mail address linked to him here is an old one, which is why he never replied.
If I still get nothing, I'll take it as a no.

EDIT: I've marked _bruce_ and Obsidian down for their mapslots.

Old Post 06-29-14 13:21 #
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an_mutt
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Although I'm not sure if I'll be putting a map forth for UDINO (I basically can't think of any good ideas), I'd be glad to provide actual testing help and feedback - specifically on multiplayer stuff, as I feel like not enough attention was put towards multiplayer shenanigans this time around. :>

Old Post 06-29-14 14:07 #
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_bruce_
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Great, will start working on E4M1 today.

I've played some maps of the mega wad and I think there's plenty of interesting maps which may appeal to a larger crowd. Though I wouldn't worry too much about how it's received in general since the "community" at large has it's own dynamic and is therefore polarized in various forms - classic, slaughter, final, etc.
I personally love the classic style and therefor my material is featuring said style with my own twist.

Most important is to produce something that you would love to play - the rest takes care of itself.

Old Post 06-29-14 14:15 #
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Processingcontrol
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Chill out Antroid, Map04 is great. :)

I'm up to Map13 so far, and I've been having a good time playing the thing. My personal favorites so far were maps 4, 8, and 11.

The weakest map so far was definitely Map10. It felt like something from 1994, except with acceptably decent visuals. The layout was nothing more than a bunch of rooms and hallways randomly pasted together, without any connections beside the doorways. Someone could rearrange the locations of all the rooms without anything seeming glaring wrong afterwards. Also the whole place was horribly flat except for two areas with tacked on height changes. The map felt like one of Tom Hall's creations before John or Sandy came to touch it up.

I also didn't care for Map12. It looked cool, had a decent layout, and had decent gameplay, but the whole thing struck me as generic and forgettable.

Old Post 06-29-14 15:49 #
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CorSair
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Yeah, Map 10 is actually second map I've ever done, with almost no feedback(?? I think Eris said something at some point, regarding gameplay, after that I don't remember almost nothing) so... :P

As for UDINO, I think we should do a dedicated thread somewhere in next week, folks are gonna get charged up already. If nothing else, then as placeholder.

Old Post 06-29-14 16:37 #
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scifista42
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Processingcontrol said:
I also didn't care for Map12. It looked cool, had a decent layout, and had decent gameplay, but the whole thing struck me as generic and forgettable.
To be honest, I always like cannonball's map a lot when he releases a first version of it, and further versions only spoil it for me. MAP12 originally had an interesting midi (I think) and was probably more bright and less stylized to a generic "dark style", which cannonball apparently prefers nowadays. I remember having fun with the map back then when I've first seen it. When I've launched it today, I felt it's the same map, but I can definitely see why you've called it generic and forgettable. I can't be sure though, if the change lies in my own subjective view, or the objective changes in the map, but I'm more likely to accept the latter. Sorry, cb. You map incredibly better than me or other mappers here though, and I've always admired your style, the earlier actually more than the later.

Old Post 06-29-14 16:50 #
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Eris Falling
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Yeah, Jay doesn't want to do it. So unless no-one objects, I'll probably be leading UDINO, with Jay's instructions. I'll make a thread later this week if that's cool.

Old Post 06-29-14 17:09 #
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Antroid
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I haven't seen much of map12 previously, but from watching it in hipp0cat's LP I definitely liked it. All maps can't be memorable, in fact I believe that if a mapset was an outstanding map after an outstanding map it might somehow illogically get tiresome. I mean, I get that every author wants to show off a map but for a collaborative effort to make a wholesome project some maps need to be more generic. Unless of course you're treating a megawad like just a convenient way to hold 32 totally separate and unrelated maps and play them one at a time and not treat them as parts of a whole, but I believe that's a wrong way to approach megawads like this one. Actually I think that I may not try to realize any fancy ideas like I had tried in this project (24 and 29 especially) and take a couple of the more generic name slots and just aim for making them pleasant and interesting to play. I need some practice in the gameplay department anyways.

Map12 may be a bit of a fillery map, but it's well-made nonetheless and has a good atmosphere and does against all odds feel like a factory. I very much admire the ability of people to pretty closely follow Doom2's style of non-realism and abstraction but still manage to make maps that feel distinctly like a place without looking anything like it or anything, and without looking un-doomy (which is what happens when I try to make a techbase or probably city too - disregard map04's techbase part because I wasn't really trying too hard with it).

But then again I didn't really have complaints about map10 either. Again, it might not be exactly up to what people have come to expect, but personally I'm all over an occasional flat map, or a map with unconventional fighting setups that make large portions of the map unpopulated or something like that. It's an interesting diversion and a breath of fresh air. Sure it looked a bit rough in places but it's a charming style in my opinion, and nicer than soulless polished generic-repetitive "perfection".

Also, go ahead Eris. Can't wait to maybe do something for it! Although a lot of other things are creeping up on me that I have to do, but I'm sure that I'll manage to make some maps during the next 666 days :P (we should aim for 616 this time!)

Old Post 06-29-14 17:17 #
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ella guro
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from what i've seen of the set, i'd say the biggest two problems i have with it are: maps taking direct inspiration from the originals (which was something that i wish was heavily discouraged), and maps being too much of a literal interpretation of their names.

in general i like the idea of people exploring their own mapmaking style within the framework of a central theme or idea to each level. and that's why it was a little disappointing when there were assorted maps (like 3, 7, and 10 to name random ones i noticed) that definitely referenced the originals too much because felt like a bit of a lost opportunity. but i guess it was well within my power to control that and i crapped out on it =/ and anyway, a lot of the maps are really interesting and not in a typical style i see around very often.

also i will have no bad talking about Tom Hall's design, most of his coolest maps (like E2M2) had almost no Sandy changes made to them.

Old Post 06-30-14 07:46 #
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_bruce_
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Sat down yesterday and made it up to version 0.4 of E4M1.
A simple two story concept - texture and play wise I tried to keep it as Doom 1 as I could... less things and line actions made the process feel quite pure.

Regarding Map03 - the original's awesome design surely left its mark.

http://i.imgur.com/I0DSZiHl.gif

http://i.imgur.com/CKC6LV7.png

Old Post 06-30-14 17:36 #
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Eris Falling
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That sure is a brucemap :D
Looks pretty cool to me, but I don't see the Hell Beneath of it. I kinda expected a subterranean hell map, though maybe there's another potential interpretation I missed.

Also, I haven't mentioned the Jayextean restrictions yet (I'll do that when I make the thread), but E4 is pretty much clear except for "No masterminds before 4-8" so no need to worry about those.

Old Post 06-30-14 17:47 #
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Antroid
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ella guro said:
from what i've seen of the set, i'd say the biggest two problems i have with it are: maps taking direct inspiration from the originals (which was something that i wish was heavily discouraged), and maps being too much of a literal interpretation of their names.


I would actually be really interested in a more complete list of which maps in this set you feel are guilty of either of those and how guilty they are. I'm sure it will be a good reference for making future maps. I feel like those are good guidelines.

Also, and I know this is a longshot for now (since UDINO is our next thing), but I thought about FDINO the other day and can't shake that idea now. Here's to hoping we can get to that as well some day! Final doom has some juicy names.

Edit: _bruce_, you need to rotate that map 180 degrees. Right now. It has the potential to look like a tea cup with a flag and I can't bear to see that potential wasted!

Last edited by Antroid on 06-30-14 at 18:15

Old Post 06-30-14 17:55 #
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_bruce_
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Good point Eris. Initially the map had a different texture theme but that was too close to E4M1, so I tried to avoid a "definite" E4 look. I went Doom 1's robust wood look.
Yes Antroid, when it's done it will be flipped vertically... but beware, the automap may be sued for spreading subliminal messages to further the tea industry's agenda.

Changed the water to blood and added torches... this may enhance the evil factor.

http://i.imgur.com/qgPoXcj.png

Old Post 07-01-14 14:28 #
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plums
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Antroid said:
Also, and I know this is a longshot for now (since UDINO is our next thing), but I thought about FDINO the other day and can't shake that idea now. Here's to hoping we can get to that as well some day! Final doom has some juicy names.


I'm holding my breath for H/HINO...

Old Post 07-01-14 17:31 #
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joe-ilya
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_bruce_ said:
Good point Eris. Initially the map had a different texture theme but that was too close to E4M1, so I tried to avoid a "definite" E4 look. I went Doom 1's robust wood look.
Yes Antroid, when it's done it will be flipped vertically... but beware, the automap may be sued for spreading subliminal messages to further the tea industry's agenda.

Changed the water to blood and added torches... this may enhance the evil factor.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qgPoXcj.png[IMG]


Why not just post it in the new thread? Make it happen!

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Old Post 07-01-14 17:34 #
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Eris Falling
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616 days time is 8 March 2016.
I'm bored and have nothing else to do, so I'll be opening the new thread shortly.

edit: joe, maybe because there is no new thread yet?

Old Post 07-01-14 17:35 #
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joe-ilya
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Eris Falling said:


edit: joe, maybe because there is no new thread yet?


I know, that's why I said "Make it happen".

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Old Post 07-01-14 17:39 #
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Caleb13
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So, this mod took 666 days to complete. And its /idgames ZIP archive has 6666460 bytes. How about you put some dummy file inside it, so it has 6666666 bytes? ;-) Or maybe you could make the TXT info file a bit longer?

Last edited by Caleb13 on 07-04-14 at 17:54

Old Post 07-04-14 17:46 #
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Dime
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After doing a 6 person race I would have to say I was disappointed with this mapset beginning around map 6.

The maps became absolutely massive, contained confusing progression and felt like a grind. Yes, the original doom 2 did have maps with similar flaws but they were also much much smaller.

Map 7 + 9 for example were incredibly bloated.

Map 9: you have three distinct teleporters. In 2/3 quadrants you receive either a yellow or blue key. Naturally, I assume that the third teleporter region is likely to have the last key. Nope! It's in the middle of the map in the pit area. And then after all of that nonsense the exit room area looks exactly the same as the start causing more confusion.

I guess I made the mistake of thinking that a project starting with D2 would have maps of similar size to original doom 2. Either way, im hoping that the maps are scaled down a bit for future INO projects.

Old Post 07-06-14 01:14 #
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mouldy
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Dime said:

I guess I made the mistake of thinking that a project starting with D2 would have maps of similar size to original doom 2.



"in name only". The only connection with doom 2 in these maps is the map names which were used as inspiration for the maps.

Old Post 07-06-14 01:54 #
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CorSair
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Dime said:
[B]Map 9: you have three distinct teleporters. In 2/3 quadrants you receive either a yellow or blue key. Naturally, I assume that the third teleporter region is likely to have the last key. Nope! It's in the middle of the map in the pit area. And then after all of that nonsense the exit room area looks exactly the same as the start causing more confusion.

Yeah, Like now as an afterthought, it feels way too big between the maps 1-10, and when I watched other's play... Can't help but to come in same conclusion as you posted. Perhaps making those teleporters accessible in the beginning would've been more helpful, along with few other things.

As for exit... I dunno. Perhaps I could have done it bit more obvious, lot of people seem to have problems. (Or is that automap so passe today? :P)

What is done is done, I'm afraid I can't say anything else.

Old Post 07-06-14 07:22 #
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Antroid
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I liked that the key placement threw me for a loop. "It wasn't super formulaic and predictable, waah waah". Also the entrance to the level is in a very distinct place so if you don't remember how it looks and mix it up with the exit that's entirely your fault. The exit, from the outside, looks nothing like it.

Dunno what people have against large maps, too. I don't even like when maps are too small. Noone is forcing you to play a lot in a row.

Old Post 07-06-14 09:06 #
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ella guro
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really don't understand why some people can't seem to ascertain that the whole point of this project was to have maps of various size and feel, depending on how the authors wanted to interpret the titles. call it inconsistent if you want, but the length comments in particular don't really make sense to me. it seems like a lot of people just want more "the way id did" style stuff and are applying that to this without bothering to understand that this is different. sure, those mods are popular, but those no reason people have to do things that way - or, by the way, that every megawad has to follow the same kind of feel or progression. that's just silly. honestly i feel like cuz this set is kinda inconsistent and done by newer mappers, it's an excuse for more experienced people to come in and dismiss and/or shit on it in an effort to distinguish themselves from it. i don't like it, but whatever.

btw, i had nothing to do with this and feel a little embarrassed about being attributed since i put next to no work in the project, but:
http://www.pcgamer.com/au/2014/07/2...original-names/

edit: there was also apparently this write-up in Rock Paper Shotgun! i totally missed this one: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/201...nly-level-pack/

Last edited by ella guro on 07-29-14 at 08:53

Old Post 07-29-14 07:25 #
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Antroid
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That article is a bit misinformed in places... D2INO really isn't, for the most part, that graphically impressive (by today's doom mapping standarts, even vanilla, I should clarify), there's map31 that uses new textures and a new monster, and it's not a "doomworld page", but a thread on the forums that has those screenshots of every level.

I liked the RPS thing more. But what's with these articles anyway? Are there such articles for many projects (the DTWiDs would deserve one each IMO, and many, many more)? Or does our actually stand out in some bizarre way?

Old Post 07-29-14 14:22 #
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