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Veinen
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Well, in my case the problem with map07 seems to be the double use of tag667. So basically tag667 does work fine but it works twice, which is the problem. The stairs in the final area raise twice in total because of the resurrection trickery refilling the map with Arachs. And because the area is identical to the opening area, the stairs to reach the exit become too high for the doomguy after the second tag667 use. Sorry for not being more clear earlier, Doom mapping mechanics isn't exactly my expertise and I only just figured this out myself heh.

Old Post 02-28-14 15:33 #
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Antroid
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Map23 also seems to have some annoying misalignments, as well as a big ole HOM. Gonna add all I find to this post as well.

Edit: well there's a visual glitch when you ride some lift down and there's gratings that are supposed to be unpassable, done with some sector trickery, and the ceiling flat appears there when you go lower than those gratings. And a lot of misalignments. Along with the overflows because of barrels this stuff also needs to be fixed.

Last edited by Antroid on 02-28-14 at 15:45

Old Post 02-28-14 15:36 #
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mouldy
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Regarding map 07: I just watched veinen's demo and the final stairs to the exit were already raised up when he arrived, so because they are tagged 667 they raised up again when he killed all the arachnotrons making them too high.

Those steps are meant to reset after passing linedef 2993 which is tagged 667 and has the action W1 floor raise to lowest ceiling, so for some reason that didn't work. Anyone have any ideas why that might be?



Antroid said:

Dang, this level really needs a visual clear-up! Joseph, you willing to do it? I could always do it, I'm fairly observant with this shit and could fix these bugs across the level.



That map was so full of misalignments, I went through it fixing the worst of them and Joseph seemed to be ok with that, so I'm sure he wouldn't mind if you had a go as well. And to be honest if someone is happy to submit a map in that condition I'm not sure they'd even notice all the problems anyway.

Old Post 02-28-14 15:43 #
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Antroid
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Alright I will go through 27 in a day or sooner, and 23 as well, unless someone's fixing the barrel numbers in 23 (I was confused for some reason earlier and thought that Eris was gonna fix it, when he only actually reported the issue). I should also probably look through Joseph's part of Suburbs but I didn't notice anything quite this plentiful there previously.

Old Post 02-28-14 15:48 #
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Veinen
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mouldy said:
Regarding map 07: I just watched veinen's demo and the final stairs to the exit were already raised up when he arrived, so because they are tagged 667 they raised up again when he killed all the arachnotrons making them too high.

Those steps are meant to reset after passing linedef 2993 which is tagged 667 and has the action W1 floor raise to lowest ceiling, so for some reason that didn't work. Anyone have any ideas why that might be?



Heh, well that should be the mystery solved then. I think I just skipped a linedef there because of straferunning through the reset-linedef. A fail-safe is definitely needed though so me and my bad straferunning habits aren't the only thing to blame here :D

Old Post 02-28-14 16:07 #
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Antroid
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Also the two revenants that pop out of the floor in the green marble area (things 874 and 870) can be seen before they appear: the tops of their heads are visible. (edit: talking about map07 here. Goddamn that thing is genius)

Last edited by Antroid on 02-28-14 at 16:14

Old Post 02-28-14 16:09 #
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mouldy
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I just tried map 23 out in chocolate doom and sector 421 (tag 7) doesn't lower like it should, I think because it has barrels on it that are stuck in the ceiling, so if you are looking at that map i'd get rid of those too.


Veinen said:


Heh, well that should be the mystery solved then. I think I just skipped a linedef there because of straferunning through the reset-linedef. A fail-safe is definitely needed though so me and my bad straferunning habits aren't the only thing to blame here :D



I didn't realise you could skip linedefs by straferunning, surely that would break just about every map though?

Old Post 02-28-14 16:27 #
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Eris Falling
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Yeah I sorted the MAP23 HOM. I am going to do the barrels, just haven't got around to sorting it yet. I'll do those other ones while I'm at it.

@Antroid - Thanks for testing MAP22, I'll try and do something with the MIDI, but it may be difficult to make it louder simply due to the nature of the track.
The idea is that the next upload of the beta is when the to do list in the OP is complete. Though with the sudden rush of reports that have just turned up, maybe I'll upload B5 in its current form and these current things like MAP23 barrels can be fixed for B6

Old Post 02-28-14 16:57 #
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Veinen
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Yes, linedef skipping is a very real phenomenon and pretty common too based on my experiences. It can break maps but I can't remember any cases where I could not finish because of it. With teleport linedefs you can put multiple of them in a row to prevent this since the chances of skipping more than one are small but I don't know if that can be applied here though. I guess you could put a wall or metal bars or something with the same tag 667 in front of the teleporter, so that you can't even enter the teleport to the final area without triggering the reset linedef? I'll repeat that I know jack shit about mapping but that at least sounds possible to build.

I do understand that this is not really a huge flaw and it isn't even supposed to happen, so it's probably okay like that for 99% of the players and only the very few unfortunate ones get to suffer the annoyance of getting stuck with the exit in sight.

Old Post 02-28-14 17:00 #
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Antroid
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Eris Falling said:
Yeah I sorted the MAP23 HOM. I am going to do the barrels, just haven't got around to sorting it yet. I'll do those other ones while I'm at it.

What other ones - only the more specific ones or the "tons of misalignments everywhere" for 27 and 23 too? (the latter is missing from The List btw)

Old Post 02-28-14 17:45 #
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mouldy
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interesting. Its called the "noclip bug" it seems:
http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Noclip_bug
I guess i never experienced it due to using zdoom mostly. Probably not worth fixing unless the author wants to add another trigger somewhere, I think it will be a pretty rare occurrence.

Old Post 02-28-14 17:51 #
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Eris Falling
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My main focus with 23 is the barrels. I'll fix any oddities I come across along the way. So far I've fixed the lower unpegged switch at the start and one case of texture alignment.

Old Post 02-28-14 18:07 #
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Antroid
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Alright, I guess just leave the misalignments in The List and I'll take care of them to the best of my ability when you're done with 23.

Old Post 02-28-14 18:15 #
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Eris Falling
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Admittedly the vast majority of the drop of this number has been that final DOOM section, but the thing count before I started was over 3000. It is now just under 1800, and only a small fraction has been monsters.

Monster-wise, the zombiemen army has been about halved, and all monsters (except Romero Heads obviously) at the end were removed since they had no use being there, and barrels alone there nearly overflow.
I don't think I can do much more with this, and I've done SOME misalignments, but not all, so you might want to check it Antroid. I also fixed some horrible drawseg overflows (310/256 in places) caused by unnecessarily smooth curves
d2ino_feb28.wad

That WAD, plus other updates to maps are now publicly available in Beta V.
Continue.

Old Post 02-28-14 20:55 #
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Antroid
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Okay so I can take on map23 and 27 oversights and map02 lighting oddity then. Should be done in a day or so.

Old Post 02-28-14 22:52 #
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Fellowzdoomer
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So.is it OK for UDINO to start

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I ain't coming back for a while, guys.

Old Post 02-28-14 23:17 #
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Ragnor
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Downloaded beta V, I'll give this a go later

Old Post 02-28-14 23:41 #
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Antroid
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Looked at map02 first, due to a slightly different geometry situation from the map29 case I decided to just do a very primitive thing and just add a 1 pixel thin sector in there to light the wall in 128 instead of 160 and raise the other half of that step which is still 160 up high so it's not visible.
here is the fix, hopefully rebuilding the nodes didn't break anything. You better check before integrating it.

Also you didn't put the "lower the pit with the 2 revenants in the green marble area of map07 so that their heads are not visible before they pop out" thing in the list and it isn't fixed in B5. :I

Old Post 03-01-14 00:41 #
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Eris Falling
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MAP02 works fine, MAP07 revs fixed.
By the way you had a complaint about MAP09's lighting in the pit area. I'll take a look at it

EDIT: Actually nvm, maybe best I leave it.

Last edited by Eris Falling on 03-01-14 at 09:30

Old Post 03-01-14 09:20 #
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Antroid
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Eris Falling said:
By the way you had a complaint about MAP09's lighting in the pit area. I'll take a look at it

Yeah I did, IMO both map09's and the Tenements' outdoor areas are way too bright. But hey, it's how the authors intended.

Also, map19 isn't fully fixed: the secret where you lower a lift under a window and then go to that other citadel and a megasphere still has an entire wall of sky, and looks horrible. There's no reason that can't be fixed, I managed to do it pretty easily, although I didn't save that because the author is active and should probably be the one to do it.

Last edited by Antroid on 03-01-14 at 11:40

Old Post 03-01-14 11:24 #
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_bruce_
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What was the actual problem with Map02?

Old Post 03-01-14 12:23 #
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mouldy
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Antroid said:

Yeah I did, IMO both map09's and the Tenements' outdoor areas are way too bright. But hey, it's how the authors intended.




Woah, map 17's courtyard is 255 brightness? I remember mentioning something about that before, also the other outdoor area is 128 brightness which is kind of inconsistant. Maybe the author was going for a day/night artistic flourish there...

Regarding map 09 in the pit, I tried playing with the light levels before to knock them down (they used to be higher) but I found anything below 160 and the lava would look brown in software mode, it needs to glow slightly just to warn people what is down there. Ideally I would have an extra sector around the walls to darken them but its close to vanilla limits as it is. Maybe the upper level could stand to be darkened a bit though..

Old Post 03-01-14 12:23 #
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Antroid
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_bruce_ said:
What was the actual problem with Map02?

http://i.imgur.com/djPN26x.png
I made it so it's the same lighting level on the wall and ceiling as the surrounding surfaces (didn't affect any other surfaces), because that definitely looked unintended and wrong (the part on the celing was glitchy, too).



mouldy said:
Regarding map 09 in the pit

My biggest problem was that bigbrick warehouse that was brighter than the outside without having any windows or lamps :3

Old Post 03-01-14 12:27 #
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mouldy
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Antroid said:


My biggest problem was that bigbrick warehouse that was brighter than the outside without having any windows or lamps :3



If thats the room with ceiling CEIL3_5 you could ad a strip of CEIL3_6 down the centre maybe.

Old Post 03-01-14 12:38 #
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Antroid
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Also, the weird thing about map09's lighting is that the lava is darker than the outside. Maybe the outside could be carefully darkened to be darker than the lava sectors?
Shall I do map09's lighting as well or are we not touching that?

Old Post 03-01-14 12:46 #
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Eris Falling
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Feel free to try it, I just didn't want to mess anything up with it

Old Post 03-01-14 12:51 #
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Antroid
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By the way, did you move map23's player 1 start? It is in an entirely different area than the other three starts, and it's with them in the previous versions. I'll fix that too.

Old Post 03-01-14 13:11 #
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Eris Falling
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Whoops! It was to save noclipping to that area when I was deleting hundreds of barrels. Yeah, move it back please :)

Old Post 03-01-14 13:25 #
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_bruce_
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Ah, the good old staircase - a "light" headed decision.
Change seems appropriate.
Antroid, if you make changes I would also address the map authors as people could get pissy when you rearrange their goods.
Tastes differ + it's thing of showing respect towards the persons work.

Old Post 03-01-14 14:13 #
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Antroid
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Well the changes I'm making are fairly minor for the most part.
The biggest alteration I've done to a map is this right here: map09 lighting change.

Basically I made the lava area 176 instead of 160, made the outer areas 144 instead of 176, fixed the light gradients to work with the new lights (joining some sectors in the process - there were minor VPOs - but making sure to keep the sound block lines and whatnot), made the warehouse building dark on the inside (I think that's better than if it was bright and with lamps - more atmospheric), and made a very minor change with some light-through-a-window effect somewhere.

mouldy and CorSair - feel free to tell me if it made the map look worse (I think it made it look better, but hey). Also please tell me if I missed some sector somewhere that now has odd lighting, or if something broke because of rebulding nodes, as well.

Not gonna touch the tenements precisely because the lighting there seems like an_mutt's personal choice and I don't want to mess with that at all.

The rest of what I'm doing is just minor alignments and visual bug fixes in Joseph Lord's two maps (and one fix of a trap in map23 you could get stuck inside forever - I added a crusher that kills you if you do :D ), and he's free to complain, but that won't change the fact that those need to be fixed :P And I'm keeping the cutoffs and whatnot as a part of Joseph's personal "style" - just fixing the blatant misalignments that have no possible reason to exist.

I could also fix that sky tiling on the way to that secret in the Citadel if scifista doesnt want to, but I'll wait with that because he might just do it himself.

Old Post 03-01-14 14:41 #
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