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Dragonsbrethren

PSX Doom: The Lost Levels - New Pre-Beta Available courtesy of Salahmander2

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NoneeLlama said:

On an other note, I think we should put Dis after the E4 maps. It's kinda strange to have a boss map so early.

Agreed 1000%. WTF is DIS doing as the 3rd map in? Regardless, this is getting my Caco vote...doubly so if this little issue is addressed.

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Gone through a few maps. Got a few suggestions...
Lost05 uses the same music as LOST04.
I say the firesky for Gotcha worked better.
Secret exit on Dead Zone leads to Mill instead of Pharoah.
I say change the music for Twighlight.
I think Limbo's music for Slayer worked better.
And unless you're planning on doing something with an entrance to Fear, it seems kinda redundant. Plus TFC's sky fitted better.

I will sort some other changes when I get a chance.

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Salahmander2 said:

And unless you're planning on doing something with an entrance to Fear, it seems kinda redundant.

Oh, this nonsense. Still think that this map doesn't at all belong in the main TC, so I've got an idea for And Hell Followed that could work remarkably well depending on one factor; I'll dick around and put up a testmap later.

If the mapslot that actually leads to Fear isn't important, then I have a second idea that can be used in Redemption.

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Im having trouble removing the .zip from the file extension as it's not showing up for me.
Also i have to ask, why is it a .zip in the first place when its supposed to be a PK3?

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It was probably not intentional to have the .zip after the .pk3

Either redownload it, this time removing the .zip from the file name when saving, or...

Make the .zip extension show on your computer. Tools-->folder options-->view--> remove the tick from "always show extensions of known file names". Either set that option permanently or just for this occasion, your choice.

Anyway, it's fucking bullshit that my PC fucks up around the time this pre-beta was out. I better get on this.

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BaronOfStuff said:

Oh, this nonsense. Still think that this map doesn't at all belong in the main TC, so I've got an idea for And Hell Followed that could work remarkably well depending on one factor; I'll dick around and put up a testmap later.

If the mapslot that actually leads to Fear isn't important, then I have a second idea that can be used in Redemption.


Yeah I was wondering why Fear is in the main TC, myself. It fits the criteria of the maps in the Lost Levels (ie, ones which aren't in PSX Doom or Final Doom).

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Okay seriously, I know I've ranted about this before, but if so many people (myself included) are against Fear being in the main TC, then why is it still in there?

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Some people had their OCD jimmies rustled by the lack of a map in slot 60...

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vinnie245 said:

Im having trouble removing the .zip from the file extension as it's not showing up for me.
Also i have to ask, why is it a .zip in the first place when its supposed to be a PK3?

I already explained this, it's an issue with my host. Also, you don't even have to remove the extension, you can just load it in GZDoom as-is. I just didn't want people trying to unzip it, so added the PK3 extension anyway. PK3 are zips. (I guess I should've just zipped the PK3, as pointless as that is.)

---

I've noted all of the issues and grabbed Baron and Salahmander2's maps. Will probably have an update available later on. One thing though:

Salahmander2 said:

Plus TFC's sky fitted better.

I disagree, Fear has always seemed like an E1 tribute, and seeing it with the E1 sky was great.

-edit-

NoneeLlama, another thing you might want to do with Slough of Despair is widen any gaps you have to go through to around 64. It's another guideline that never got put in the OP, unfortunately, but they did widen some narrow passages in the PSX version, it might be related to the simplified collision.

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Complete texture and point-limit reworking on Open Season, because whoever did the original conversion apparently lost interest after doing the easy work of just adding some pretty colours.

Someone else will have to do the height change stuff, it's 2AM here and I'm about to add a secret exit for "Fear" to "And Hell Followed".

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BaronOfStuff said:

Complete texture and point-limit reworking on Open Season, because whoever did the original conversion apparently lost interest after doing the easy work of just adding some pretty colours.

Someone else will have to do the height change stuff, it's 2AM here and I'm about to add a secret exit for "Fear" to "And Hell Followed".


I'll sort the height changes out for Open Season tomorrow.

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Gez said:

Some people had their OCD jimmies rustled by the lack of a map in slot 60...

The obvious solution was to put Attack in map 60, and shift every other map down a slot. Why this wasn't done in the first place is beyond me.

Anyway, I got to Industrial Zone last night and found some things

Sewers:
Had to MAP LOST63 to get here, and thus pistol start. The changes to map since the last time I played it were welcome, revenants are now chaingunners, the secret soulsphere now follows PSX tradition of being a transparent texture and is now actually has a clue.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_001445_zps00ecad1e.png~original
Not the biggest fan of the doors, a lot of them still look like 1994 doors with bad alignment.

Could the items in the two dark areas be rearranged a bit? Its so dark in the sewer area and the dark hallway behind the start that its prety much impossible to see the items. Maybe have them against the walls or in that cubbyhole? Dont lighten up the sewers though, the darkness there is amazing. Should the firesky be changed to the E4 sky? Its accessed from an E4 map. Finally, the music; I wondered what this music was, really creepy and unfamiliar. Opened up ZMAPINFO, and it was finmus05. Please keep all finmusxx to ML, TNT and PLT maps :p I dont know what PSXMUS would be good for dark dank sewers, but for those with bonus tracks, Plague Rats is a must, with its buzzing insects (For me its PSXMUS23, with 21 being Total Lamentation and 22 being Sufficate)

Warrens:
The exit took me to Slough. If the way to get to this level ends up being through Slough, this will be hilarious

Fear:
This map is pretty fucking brutal on a pistol start, aside from the bible quote thing, it fits the name well. The lack of the E4 sky was a bit odd. I suppose its okay if the level is accessed from E4M7, you jump back to E1 for remembrance before going off to Doom 2. Does make me wish there was an E2 level in here though. Xaser's Lost Episode included the console Spawning Vats, was it really THAT different to the PC map?

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_022212_zps38edff7c.png~original
Were you always able to jump out these windows? Regardless, I kept seeing nightmare spectres running along these windows, looked hilarious

And Hell Followed:
Doesnt feel that different to PC, even with Hell Knights. The old Cyberdemon trap is broken, only one baron pops out and the rest just howl at you menacingly from their closet. Also, the secret invul, is that supposed to missing from the automap?

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_005951_zpsc42fffdc.png~original
The exit "switch". Whoops!

Downtown:
http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_011906_zpseb834e65.png~original
I think this hallway is way too bright. The end room looks odd because its really bright yet has coloured lighting too. Darkening the area would make the demon trap a bit more threatening

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_011742_zps44db1851.png~original
This arachnotron felt like he wanted to see the city from above.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_011535_zps3618d47e.png~original
Dont know where this is, but that area with the white panels isnt solid, saw cacos casually flying in an out of a solid wall. PSX Doom handles walk-through-walls with translucency if this is an intentional thing.

As for Betray, how about this entry method: The soulsphere secret where you must leap to from the narrow platform. This is already a secret that took me years to figure out and is probably the hardest secret on the map. Add a switch there, possibly a creepy out-of-place switch that can be partly seen from street level, that opens up the secret room in one of the three alleyways at the top. Those alleys are filled with windows, make one one of them open up to show a transparent one that you walk through. Secret exit room should clearly be gore filled, to fit the theme "Betray", walk through a translucent slimefall to a switch or teleporter!

Method 2 that I thought of while writing this: Same exit room as before. I was wondering last night, WHY is there a berserk pack in the exit room? Unless your below 100 health, its wasted. So I thought, picking up the berserk will wake up a demon or two very close-by that you cant see, but can hear, along with an audible teleport. Anyone curious will want to find the monster and kill him. Others will go fuck it and leave. The idea being that if the player tracks down the demon, they will find the exit.

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And Hell Followed, complete with secret exit and the following fixes:
- DropActors = 1, so they no longer hover in mid-air for a split second when the floor they're standing on insta-lowers.
- 'Baron Trap' now functions properly with difficulty settings taken into account.
- One incredibly trivial lighting oversight is gone.

The ZMAPINFO is not included though, you'll have to wait for the next updated version of the mapset for that. Have fun trying to access the secret exit however, and no cheating. It's surprisingly simple stuff.

Ragnor said:

Please keep all finmusxx to ML, TNT and PLT maps

Why? Has my choice of music for Sewers rustled your OCD jimmies?

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Oh yeah! I forgot about the guys dropping from the roof, that was awesomely hilarious

The music thing, it just feels a bit odd to have music from the Final Doom section, which was an entirely seperate disc, on the PSX Doom section. Of course, Sewers is practically considered one of the "new Midway levels" that this project lacks so I guess it can be anything, but still.

Anyway, about music as a whole, I PMed Dragonsbrethren about this, and he doesnt mind the inclusion of an alternate ZMAPINFO that takes into account people with the expanded soundtrack. This is already something thats being worked on for the main TC, so it'd be nice to have this for this project too

Mappers and testers, please give these a listen and if any of them feel like they'd go well with a level, please make a note of it so we have an alternate music list. You don't need to buy his album to listen to these.

http://aubreyhodges.bandcamp.com/track/bonus-total-lamentation
aka PSXMUS21. An alternate version of Erebus' music, I use this as the music for Redemption Denied in the main TC.

http://aubreyhodges.bandcamp.com/track/bonus-sufficate
aka PSXMUS22. Like the name states, its a pretty suffocating track. Claustrophobic maps maybe?

http://aubreyhodges.bandcamp.com/track/bonus-plague-rats
aka PSXMUS23. This track is ideal for any swampy, infested or unclean map, aka The Marshes, Sewers, Sewers PLT. Sounds like theres insects buzzing around at times

http://aubreyhodges.bandcamp.com/track/bonus-darker-than-blackness
aka finmus11. This track was originally designed for Subspace. Ideal for Bloodsea Keep, Betray, and others, this track has a heavy liquid sound to it, at times it sounds like theres blood spurting out of something.

http://aubreyhodges.bandcamp.com/track/bonus-psychotechnica
aka finmus12. This track was originally designed for Subterra. I have a hard time placing this, its very strange and surreal.

http://aubreyhodges.bandcamp.com/track/bonus-warbled-logic
aka finmus13. This track was originally created for Vesperas. This track sounds like it would be great for techbases or outposts in hell. It feels like demons are corrupting radio and technology, trying to speak through things. Or maybe Doomguy is picking them up through his helmet's tech. I'd place this in Odyssey of Noises. Goes with the level name, AND the fact that the level is a city absorbed by Hell. Also, Administration Centre from TNT, as that level takes you to Hell in-level (its implied that the starting area is outside hell then the outdoor area is you literally going to hell or wherever the third TNT episode is supposed to be.

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BaronOfStuff said:

- One incredibly trivial lighting oversight is gone.

What exactly was done?

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Bit of both, sort of. Getting it within limits essentially resulted in a watered-down version of Redemption Denied (which would be balls), so I started fucking around with the combination to see how it turned out. It was also one of the first maps converted for the project, so the 'rules and limitations' weren't even up at the time.

So what's the oversight? Well, I didn't bother putting the original Caco/Baron placements back (they're swapped), but decided I liked that so I kept it that way. Something of a 'happy mistake'.

Now all that being said, if this blatant misconduct makes some users a bunch of sad pandas, then here, have this update, which takes a leaf from Tower Of Babel's book. Sort of. And to be honest, I think it changes the map from merely featuring a novelty cameo, to an actual bossmap of sorts.

Edit:

Avoozl said:

What exactly was done?

The lighting oversight was in sector 254; it wasn't coloured and stood out pretty sorely.

Also, another update for a map, this one being 'Trapped On Titan'. I don't know about you guys but trying to take a running leap to grab that Yellow Skullkey with PSXDoomguy's reduced speed seemed to be a complete motherfucker of a task. Reduce that pillar height by 8... and there we go. Still have to straferun for it though.

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Ive noticed a lot of moments where jumping is very difficult or timing puzzles are nearly impossible. Must be those reduced speeds, that explains a lot.

Anyway, did a bunch more levels, will post feedback soon.

EDIT: FEEDBACKS

Betray:
The sheer easiness of this level is the main reason I suggested Downtown for it. Are the monster points used up? If not, it could use a bit more. Has the same music as Sewers atm, which is kind of funny, given the origin of these two bonus maps.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_223429_zps3f83fe36.png~original
This revenant cannot leave this alcove.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_223629_zpsb0abe45b.png~original
I see it now uses a Final Doom sky. I dont even remember this sky being in Final Doom, it must have been rarely used. With this sky in effect, should the outdoor liquid area be changed to blood with red lighting?

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_223707_zps8c0f2357.png~original
The textures here really stand out, was it that bad on the PSX? Its a good visual clue, but it still looks amusing.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_224318_zps27259244.png~original
Is it possible for the ending room to have the strobe lighting AND red coloured lighting? It looks bad currently, you can see the the colour difference.

I'd also like the rooms in the second area (where the stuck revenant is) to receive the same effect all the other tech concrete rooms have, where the light fades to pitch black then lights up again. Being as consistently bright as these rooms are really shows the lack of detail, and also isn't that atmospheric. Props to Dragonsbrethen for apparantly already deciding on Downtown as the entrance when he put this together, Betray takes you to Industrial Zone!

Industrial Zone:
This was a fun conversion, and unlike Slough and E4M7, REALLY felt different. The massive cut to the lava lake and the destruction of several jumping puzzles was very noticable. Not a fan of the way the secret exit is opened now, its easy as hell to get to that little island, and its likely you'll have the secret exit open the very first time you get there. Would anyone prefer a different method thats harder to activate?

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131214_011947_zps479af7da.png~original
Whoops! Whoever converted this forgot to put a switch texture here, much like the E4M7 exit switch (Baron, did you fix that while you were at it?)

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131214_013139_zps9ce07667.png~original
OH MY GOD this NEEDS to be changed. Blue key for me is impossible to get, because this lift requires a ridiculously difficult run through a dark waste tunnel thats curvy as fuck. Collisions ahoy! I tried for ages and eventually threw my hand in the air in exasperation and IDCLIPed up there. Whats even worse about this is, that tunnel is nukage filled, and its likely you'll be killing yourself over and over trying to get up there once your suit wears off. Secondly, there is a timed secret down there that requires going upstairs. If you fail it, GUESS WHAT? YOU HAVE TO PLAY CATCH THE LIFT AGAIN AND AGAIN IN THE WASTE TUNNEL.

Gotcha:
Ahh, the map where Mr Speed Demon joined the project. I quite like his opening effort, the huge cuts are very natural feeling and dont give a sense of loss. The Cyberdemon is an ACTUAL BOSS FIGHT too! Doom 2 didn't have a single proper boss fight with a cyber, every single one could be bypassed or had a gimmick to it, iirc. Sucks that theres no such Mastermind fight in LL for, well, ANYTHING past Dis.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131214_021002_zps1123f0e8.png~original
Shouldnt this texture be the green/gray bricks like the rest of the level? They really stand out in a bad way to me.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131214_021645_zps4febc8c5.png~original
I'm sorry, but the exit cracks me up really bad. This is THE portal to Hell itself, source of the invasion, and in PSX its a checkerboard! I expected something more sinister in lieu of the skyhole

The Castle and The Escape:
Oh my god, holy shit! These maps are fucking BRILLIANT. Baron has turned the wolf maps into fun maps that are creepy as shit, fully embrace the PSX feel, and fun to play. Monster variation is ace too, with brilliant placement. With these two levels, and Sewers and Betray, we can cheat and say we have four EXCLUSIVE console levels.

That said, I would still in future like levels done the way Midway did them, with each guy making a special exclusive level for the game. For this project, that would mean one from Dragonsbrethren, one from Dexiaz, one from BaronofStuff, one from Nuxius and one from Salahmander (You guys being the main driving force of this project). Would love to see this happen eventually.

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131214_014527_zpsd2a70457.png~original
Castle has some lines that pop up on the automap early for some reason.

Escape has a lot of hanging corpses that block the player, especially noticable in the plasmagun secret (The cyber followed me in there, could he always get in there in PC?) I especially loved Escape's opening room, the texturing, colour and objects all give an impending sense of blood and carnage. The trenchs near the cyber door are interesting, but they seemingly dont have anything in them. Maybe a medpack for extreme situations that require diving in to dodge rockets while low on health? Not that much work is needed, theres an invuln that renders the fight trivial like the Warrens fight. At least Dis that early was somewhat challenging! Also, the Keen replacements are a must-see ;]

While I may be a little biased towards these two as I came up with their names, these are the highlight of Lost Levels so far no question. Cant wait to see Pharoah and the Sverre maps.

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http://www.mediafire.com/download/g5m2segqcu213iu/lost22.wad

Credits goes to Avoozl for the map.

Reduced areas exceeding 256 units. Changed a few textures slightly and combined a few sectors.

I also got rid of the windows in the first room to make it more PSX like, if people believe this was an unnecessary change, I got another version with the same fixes, but with the windows intact.

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Oh yes, why is the SSG first obtainable in Gotcha or Castle? Thats an agonising wait! Especially when I'm picking up BFGs like they are candy, figure that out..

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I like having to wait for the SSG. Keep in mind that it's somewhat the 'default' weapon to be carrying around once acquired (with ammo everywhere) and also reduces many things to snouts and entrails in a few shots, whereas the BFG is a specialised room-clearer which doesn't find itself fully reloaded anywhere near as frequently.

Also (with the exception of original map The Marshes), Ultimate Doom maps shouldn't even have it up for grabs!

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Well yeah, but I was surprised neither Industrial Zone or Downtown had one, Betray doesnt either.

The second to last weapon is the chainsaw in E4M7 btw.

My wall of feedback is up and present, so I'm going to bed, fuck this 4 30 am betatest shit :p

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IIRC, the first opportunity I had to get the SSG was in Chasm...if it was in any previous mission, I missed it.

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Ragnor said:

http://i120.photobucket.com/albums/o181/Ekerezan/Doom/Screenshot_Doom_20131213_223707_zps8c0f2357.png~original
The textures here really stand out, was it that bad on the PSX? Its a good visual clue, but it still looks amusing.


Those textures are actually unused resources, and clearly unfinished. They're present in the game's IWAD (and IIRC they're leftovers from JagDoom) but you'll never find them displayed on any official map.

As for the switch issue you seem to be encountering, I can't say I've run into it myself. The switch on LOST06 raises just fine for me, as do all others. Are your compatibility flags breaking it?

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Here's an edit of Slough Of Despair: https://www.mediafire.com/?40d5chtm0t8ld78

Here's what I changed (that's 3 LS on UV, I wrote it wrong):

Red circles show the more drastical changes, green circles the lesser ones. I moved some other lines here and there, but those aren't that noticeable. Plus I removed some things (stalagmites, the torches at the fingers).

Please tell me if I'm on the right direction.

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NoneeLlama said:

Here's an edit of Slough Of Despair: https://www.mediafire.com/?40d5chtm0t8ld78

Here's what I changed (that's 3 LS on UV, I wrote it wrong):

Red circles show the more drastical changes, green circles the lesser ones. I moved some other lines here and there, but those aren't that noticeable. Plus I removed some things (stalagmites, the torches at the fingers).

Please tell me if I'm on the right direction.

So, just to make sure I understand, in the updated edit of SoD, you removed some (more) decorations? Maybe it's been too long since I played the PC version, but I thought the version of SoD in the beta was already lacking in decorations. Just my $0.02 of course.

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