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Quaker540
Warming Up


Posts: 27
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Hello there Revenant100!

I really like this mod. It makes Doom much more cleaner and better. So I decide to mod it. Here's a list on what I've done;

-Fists have no grey pixels anymore.
-Pistol, Shotgun, SSG, Plasma Gun and BFG9000 have now actual metal. Instead of seeing brown parts on them, they are grey (This doesn't mean that I've changed the pump on the Shotgun, for example).
-Chaingun muzzle flash frames have no longer green pixels.

And here's the link; https://www.mediafire.com/?sjk94itytr6t6xb

Hope you enjoy it!

Old Post 04-29-14 17:53 #
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Da Werecat
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Did you upload the wrong wad?

Old Post 04-29-14 18:34 #
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Revenant100
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Sodaholic said:
Anyhow, I have a few thoughts on potential "fixes".
Whoops, I meant to reply to this a while back, but forgot to head back to this thread. I'm going to leave the Zombieman's rifle alone as changing it to match Doom Guy's gun would be too jarring. Plus, although they're technically the same, there's no real indication that the two weapons are supposed to be identical. I've been aware of the inconsistencies in the Demon's attack and pain frames, but I'm hesitant to change them as it would basically be all original art modifications on my end. I don't think the darker claws would be too difficult to match, but the orange markings on his legs are trickier. I'd like to just copy the orange things from its existing walking frames, but I'm not certain if the leg positions match closely enough.

The slight proportion alterations evident when comparing the Zombieman/Shotgun Guy sprites and Doom Guy's sprites are intriguing, though. I'm most interested in these changes as they have a clear technical basis to work from. It might be a bit presumptuous to assume the former humans should have identical proportions to Doom Guy, but I'll make the changes myself and scrutinize the end results. Just to be clear, however, there are no impending updates to this project coming soon. I still wish to attend to the Heretic and Hexen fixes first, and I'm backlogged with many other things in the mean time.

But for the record, I am keeping a very close watch on the potential Doom beta now in the hands of those at the Duke4 forums. If that manages to see the light of day and there are new useable graphics to be found, that will prompt an immediate and critical update here. Fingers crossed!


Quaker540 said:
I really like this mod. It makes Doom much more cleaner and better. So I decide to mod it. Here's a list on what I've done;
As Werecat said, it appears you uploaded the wrong WAD as I don't see any differences, but judging by your description, I don't agree with the changes you've made as they're certainly not errors to be fixed. Quite the opposite, I believe they're very deliberate artistic choices meant to add some subtle color depth, an important factor when working with a limited color palette. I've seen other sprite modifications remove the green/brown highlights from the weapon sprites, and I think that erases all of the depth and color detail, resulting in flat, monochrome shapes.

Old Post 04-30-14 01:06 #
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Quaker540
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Oh! Sorry about that Revenant100, I was busy and I forgot to upload the fixed version! You could actually see that I was busy because of my stupid-like description. Anyway, I've uploaded the fixed version;

https://www.mediafire.com/?deot41gnypxjcli

To see the differences to the weapons, you should look carefully, because now instead of having brown parts on them they are metal. Also, fists have no longer grey pixels, and Chaingun has no green pixels on it's muzzle flash.

Enjoy!

Old Post 04-30-14 13:13 #
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40oz
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It's been a while since I checked this thread, but is everything in this project strictly graphic related? As in if I were to run this with an already recorded demo it shouldn't desync or anything (like perkristian's soundfx mod)

Old Post 04-30-14 13:20 #
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Da Werecat
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Well, I expected desaturated brown reflections on the shotgun. I can see how someone could mistake them for a flaw - the shotgun sprites are rather messy overall. But desaturated green reflection on the pistol? I think you should learn more about visual arts before attempting to correct other people's "errors".

Two more things I should mention:

1. Raw PNG images will work only in advanced source ports. Consider converting your graphics to Doom format.
2. Be careful about sprite names. There's at least one typo in your wad.

Old Post 04-30-14 14:07 #
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Glaice
formerly Mr. Chris


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I know there is a Doom/Ultimate Doom version, but does anyone know why (for example) does ZDoom/GZDoom complain about incomplete rotations when attempting to load the Doom 2 version? It really shouldn't.

Does it only happen because it is in WAD format? Has the OP experimented using PK3 to see if this happens still so 2 versions are not needed or does it happen regardless?

__________________
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Old Post 04-30-14 16:19 #
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Blue Shadow
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Mr. Chris said:
I know there is a Doom/Ultimate Doom version, but does anyone know why (for example) does ZDoom/GZDoom complain about incomplete rotations when attempting to load the Doom 2 version? It really shouldn't.

ZDoom complains about the CPOS sprite (chaingunner's sprites), more precisely the E frame. The mod doesn't supply all of the monster's rotations for that frame (because it doesn't need to, since the Doom 2 IWAD will fill in the rest), and since the chaingunner's sprites don't exist in Doom/Ultimate Doom, then we have a case of missing rotations.

Old Post 04-30-14 17:11 #
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Glaice
formerly Mr. Chris


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ZDoom should check if the Chaingunner is used in the chosen game, not worrying about missing rotations on sprites on an enemy that isn't used in said game.

Old Post 04-30-14 17:36 #
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fraggle
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I haven't noticed this project before, it looks really interesting. Kind of fits in with the other "subtle enhancement" projects, like the hi-res sound pack and the smooth weapon animations.

Old Post 04-30-14 18:04 #
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Revenant100
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40oz said:
It's been a while since I checked this thread, but is everything in this project strictly graphic related?
That's right, there are no gameplay alterations. The changes are strictly cosmetic.


Mr. Chris said:
Has the OP experimented using PK3 to see if this happens still so 2 versions are not needed or does it happen regardless?
You could use DeuSF to merge the missing IWAD sprites into the sprite fixes, thus allowing you to use a single WAD file for both Doom and Doom 2 IWADs (with ZDoom-compatible ports, at least). I didn't include any unmodified IWAD lumps for the sake of efficiency, hence two versions being necessary to avoid said crash.

Old Post 04-30-14 19:13 #
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Quaker540
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Da Werecat said:
Well, I expected desaturated brown reflections on the shotgun. I can see how someone could mistake them for a flaw - the shotgun sprites are rather messy overall. But desaturated green reflection on the pistol? I think you should learn more about visual arts before attempting to correct other people's "errors".

Two more things I should mention:

1. Raw PNG images will work only in advanced source ports. Consider converting your graphics to Doom format.
2. Be careful about sprite names. There's at least one typo in your wad.



Thanks for the criticism man. I knew that I'd mess around with opinions about the weapons etc. but I personally think that they look better. I was watching Doom weapons with brown and green parts everywhere, and I mentioned that those were simple graphical glitches so I just add to 'em a "Grey" effect. Anyway, what did you think about the fix to the Fists and to the Chaingun? Fists have no longer grey parts and I've improved the bracelet, and to the Chaingun I've fixed the muzzle flash which had green parts on.

Old Post 05-01-14 01:44 #
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Xegethra
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This mod looks really nice. It's a shame I won't be using it in Zandronum with Mr. Chris's mod as his mod doesn't currently work with that.

But the two mods together should be rather entertaining. I'll have to ZDoom it I guess.

Old Post 05-01-14 02:02 #
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Glaice
formerly Mr. Chris


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Xeg: Load the sprite WAD before my alternate death mod and it will work.

Old Post 05-01-14 06:06 #
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Da Werecat
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Quaker540 said:
Fists have no longer grey parts

Seems like a harmless change. Although you forgot to fix the elbow pad, which is brown too.


and I've improved the bracelet

I didn't notice.


and to the Chaingun I've fixed the muzzle flash which had green parts on.

Well, those parts were barely noticeable, but at least it's clear that they shouldn't be there.

Unlike the small muzzle flash reflection you removed.


glitches

Look at this picture:

http://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae293/da_werecat/terminator.png

Does it look "glitchy" or not metal enough? Do you want to remove/desaturate orange parts?

Old Post 05-01-14 20:19 #
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_bruce_
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Well, it's easy to go overboard with such stuff.
I think it's an interesting addition to the Doom universe though I partially agree with Werecat who has a keen eye for detail.

Old Post 05-01-14 21:41 #
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40oz
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Prboom crashed while I was using this

createPatch: Unknown patch format SKELA1D1

used a PNG perhaps?

Old Post 05-02-14 00:28 #
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Revenant100
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Aw nuts, you're correct. Damn, I'm not sure how that got passed. I even specifically tested PrBoom+, but I guess I didn't check a map with a Revenant in it.

I just updated the Doom 2 sprite fixes with a new download link. The single change is the conversion of the SKELA1D1 frame from PNG to Doom graphic format. I hate to do it this way, but the version number isn't incremented, so the file name is still the same.

Old Post 05-02-14 00:46 #
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xenphor
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I want to be able to use the wad with the dos doom.exe but I always get a Segmentation Fault when trying to use DeuSF. I compiled it on Linux from the sources. What could be causing that?

Old Post 05-02-14 04:19 #
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Xegethra
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Mr. Chris said:
Xeg: Load the sprite WAD before my alternate death mod and it will work.


Ahh coolios, thanks!

Old Post 05-02-14 04:51 #
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Quaker540
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Da Werecat said:
*Stuff*


Well, you understand me wrong :P

The only thing I did to the weapons is that I've removed those brown/green parts and converted them grey instead. With what you are saying now the only thing I can understand is that brown looks like metal, because you are not attentive enough. I think/agree that they look better, and I've no plans on changing that. I've also did something else on that, I've further removed green parts, I've fixed a few glitches I accidentally did to the weapons (With some wrong grey pixels), I've removed green parts from Man-Cubus fireball, and many other things like the skies, I had plans on uploading it, but since nobody wants it, I'll not.

One last note; I never removed any muzzle flash.

Old Post 05-03-14 17:10 #
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Da Werecat
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Quaker540 said:
With what you are saying now the only thing I can understand is that brown looks like metal, because you are not attentive enough.

If that's the only thing you can understand, then perhaps you're not attentive enough.

I never said that, by the way.


One last note; I never removed any muzzle flash.

Of course you didn't. You removed a reflection of the muzzle flash on one of the sprites. Pay attention.

Old Post 05-03-14 17:42 #
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Quaker540
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Da Werecat said:

If that's the only thing you can understand, then perhaps you're not attentive enough.

I never said that, by the way.


Of course you didn't. You removed a reflection of the muzzle flash on one of the sprites. Pay attention.



You've obviously completely no idea what you are saying.


Da Werecat said:
desaturated green reflection on the pistol?


I never did that. You've also said that to the fixed fists;


Da Werecat said:
Seems like a harmless change.


It isn't. Look at the original pack for a minute. Can you easily see how fists are "broken"? Not to mention that the original Doom's fists were cleaner and better rather than this "new" ones.



Da Werecat said:
Unlike the small muzzle flash reflection you removed.


I never removed any muzzle flash reflection, is just you. I've only fixed green pixels.


Da Werecat said:
Does it look "glitchy" or not metal enough? Do you want to remove/desaturate orange parts?


Man what are you asking? Of course it looks metal, and because you keep saying that if I "desaturate" orange parts it will not look metal enough, I did a quick edit over here;

http://postimg.org/image/rdw45z41p/

You are sure that you still want to complain about those "desaturate" effects?

Old Post 05-05-14 17:28 #
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Cire
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Quaker540: I would be interested in having a look at the fixes you mentioned.

Old Post 05-05-14 18:50 #
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Da Werecat
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Quaker540 said:
You've obviously completely no idea what you are saying.

I'm going to apologize to Revenant100 in advance for thread derailing, but it's hard to resist the urge to see whether colorful illustrations will help me to communicate with this Quaker540 person.


Da Werecat said:
But desaturated green reflection on the pistol?


Quaker540 said:
I never did that.

Actually, you did.


Da Werecat said:
Seems like a harmless change.


Quaker540 said:
It isn't.

For a moment I thought that you're shitting on your own mod. "Harmless" means that this particular change is not for the worse. I didn't say it's useless.


Not to mention that the original Doom's fists were cleaner and better rather than this "new" ones.

Are you comparing the stock sprites with Minor Sprite Fixing Project's ones? The stock ones are just cut off at the bottom => the quantity of out-of-place grey pixels is understandably lower.


I never removed any muzzle flash reflection, is just you.

It's not just me.


you keep saying that if I "desaturate" orange parts it will not look metal enough

No, I don't. The point of posting that picture was to introduce you to the wonderful world of intentionally colored reflections.

P.S. Haha, you made his eye grey too.


You are sure that you still want to complain about those "desaturate" effects?

You can butcher any game in any way you want. But if you're going to upload the results for everyone to see, don't be surprised to hear something other than compliments.

Old Post 05-05-14 20:26 #
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PSTrooper
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I'm curious to hear, is the empty pixel in the center of POSSH0 a glitch or was it intentionally used to simulate getting blasted through?

Old Post 05-06-14 16:34 #
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Revenant100
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P.S. Trooper said:
I'm curious to hear, is the empty pixel in the center of POSSH0 a glitch or was it intentionally used to simulate getting blasted through?
It's difficult to say for sure. The Zombieman sprites do exhibit a couple of transparent pixels that do not exist in Shotgun Guy's. A few other detail differences indicate the Shotgun Guy sprites were done later, hence potentially being more refined and accurate. However, the Shotgun Guy's initial death frame does erase much of his jaw implying it has been completely blown off, so it's not a stretch to consider that perhaps the transparent pixel in the Zombieman's initial death frame is similarly meant to portray extreme perforation. POSSH0 also possesses some gushing blood under the left arm which is absent in SPOSH0, possibly implying additional gore flying out from the more violent gut wound (although the Shotgun Guy's death frames ultimately end with more blood).

While I can't find a precedent in any other death animation where a single transparent pixel is used to suggest a clear exit wound, I'd opt to leave this particular frame alone since it's just on the cusp being considered an error.

Old Post 05-06-14 17:37 #
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Glaice
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I know this isn't much but is it possible to make the pistol with the original left hand in the cropped position as an alternative?

Old Post 05-06-14 18:09 #
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Da Werecat
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That zombie hole looks like another case of a pink pixel being the wrong shade of pink (index 255 was used as a transparent color at some point, at least I heard it was). An intentional hole would be in the middle of the wound.

There's another suspicious transparent pixel right under the eyebrow, but it's hard to be sure about that one.

Old Post 05-06-14 18:17 #
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Quaker540
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Revenant100;

When can we expect a new version? I've actually cleaned up Doom 1's skies (Which they had a few crazy pixels here and there), and if you are interested, I've dropped a link just in case;

https://www.mediafire.com/?gz9a0rdhmc9zdci


Da Werecat said:

P.S. Haha, you made his eye grey too.


I know that :P It was a quick edit.

---

What you are doing now is entirely immature. I got your point when you said it the first five times. There's no need to attempt to rub it in my face. Calm down. Please give suggestions CONSTRUCTIVELY, and let them grow. It's just the beginning, and changes can always be made.


Da Werecat said:don't be surprised to hear something other than compliments.


For over 2 months with my last Sub-Mod I did I'm getting only aggressive feedback which I got used to it :) I already know that, by the way.


Da Werecat said:
Shitting on you own mod


Shitting on what?

Old Post 05-06-14 19:37 #
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