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esselfortium
A Major Doomworld Concern


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Pottus said:


I never bothered you, you bothered yourself by writing such ignorance.


Dude, chill out. No one is blaming you.

Old Post 12-14-12 00:25 #
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Pavera
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esselfortium said:

Dude, chill out. No one is blaming you.



We're all blaming you, essel.

Old Post 12-14-12 00:29 #
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dew
experts


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Pottus said:
I never bothered you, you bothered yourself by writing such ignorance.

i'm the guy who did coop thing placement for btsx, or at least checked it for mappers who did it themselves. now you're saying i've overlooked a stuck cyb in map11. well, there is no cyb, so stop acting like i'm hurting your feelings.

Old Post 12-14-12 00:33 #
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NaturalTvventy
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I stuck the cyber in when no one was looking! Suck it world!!

Old Post 12-14-12 00:37 #
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Pottus
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esselfortium said:

Dude, chill out. No one is blaming you.



I am chilled out, it's all good but some dignity in a response would be more appreciated instead of responding like a goof.

Old Post 12-14-12 00:37 #
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Tarnsman
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Dew is just mad because TNS went full-retard.

Old Post 12-14-12 00:38 #
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Pottus
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dew said:

i'm the guy who did coop thing placement for btsx, or at least checked it for mappers who did it themselves. now you're saying i've overlooked a stuck cyb in map11. well, there is no cyb, so stop acting like i'm hurting your feelings.



Your not hurting my feelings, and you know what show some appreciation next time that someone would point something out even if is their wrong it goes a long way instead of being like I said in the last post a goof about it.

Old Post 12-14-12 00:42 #
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Gez
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In actual bug news, two very minor things that may or may not justify addressing and which I've found in MAP12.

GZDoom doesn't handle the effect used to make fake 3D at several places in this level.
http://i.imgur.com/cxkRMs.png http://i.imgur.com/x3VHWs.png

I could stand there without a radsuit and was not taking any damage. I didn't mind, though. :p
http://i.imgur.com/Qifwhs.png

Old Post 12-14-12 00:48 #
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NaturalTvventy
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Gez said:
In actual bug news, two very minor things that may or may not justify addressing and which I've found in MAP12.

GZDoom doesn't handle the effect used to make fake 3D at several places in this level.

I could stand there without a radsuit and was not taking any damage. I didn't mind, though. :p



How do you do that fake-3d floor, anyways?

Old Post 12-14-12 00:50 #
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esselfortium
A Major Doomworld Concern


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Gez said:
In actual bug news, two very minor things that may or may not justify addressing and which I've found in MAP12.

GZDoom doesn't handle the effect used to make fake 3D at several places in this level.


Hawkwind found a similar issue with it in Risen3D, I believe. If I were to guess, chances are good that his proposed fix will correct it in GZDoom as well.

Old Post 12-14-12 01:00 #
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Evolution
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On stuck cybers chilling out, and re-spawning monsters causing havoc:
Yes, I'll agree that it didn't play too well. I did ask the players what they wanted for the second rotation in-game, and we sometimes can get crazy with the pain rotations. That said, I apologize to map authors who joined after our standard rotation to witness some confusing game-play with alien monsters in their maps. Note that we did set things back to normal later on. I'll concede that we should have exercised more caution and should have shown more respect towards a new release and to all those involved in making sure it was played as it is.

I wish to see many more projects get the early attention and celebration they deserve, and if anything is unsatisfactory for some then we'll address it. We had a great time during the first rotation at least, and we kept a lot of players entertained for over FIVE HOURS.

The US session has been going for just over an hour now and will remain using standard settings until the first rotation is complete. After which, only a simple modifier such as 2x damage, or -fast may be applied, depending on admins being awake and general player skill/numbers. There's a lot of newcomers that are loving this wad just now!

Congrats on the cracking release,
Evo.

Last edited by Evolution on 12-14-12 at 02:31

Old Post 12-14-12 02:25 #
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Processingcontrol
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Played the first map.

Visually it was excellent. The architecture was cool and made perfect use of 3D space. The new textures were beautiful and a nice mix between upgraded Doom II one and entirely new creations. It wasn't overly colorful yet it also didn't look like the whole place was dipped in a can of brown paint. There also was a 3D bridge; always cool for a special effect addict like myself.

However, I did find it lacking compared to many other Map01's I've played. Honestly I don't really know why. However, I think it might stem from what I feel could be a lack of originality.

One Map01 that I feel is much more effective is the one from Icarus. Sure, the level of aesthetic quality in that map doesn't hold a candle towards that of this one, but it's good enough that nothing is distractingly ugly. The Icarus level truly shines in it's creativity; there's a chapel that transforms into a demonic temple, the spaceship enters space halfway through the level, etc. When I played it for the first time I was eager to enter the next map and see what cool stuff I would encounter there. In comparison, there wasn't really any part of the first map of this project that stuck out as particularly interesting or creative, maybe besides the hub at the end. Instead of awaiting to see what cool things were in the next level, I was wondering if the whole project would just be a collection of generic Quake2-ish tech bases.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that this is a bad level or anything. It's definitely awesome, just not as awesome as I expected.

And I only played the first one; I won't be surprised if I end up liking the next few a lot more.

And I haven't had much sleep over the past few days. Maybe I'm just tired and cranky. :P

Old Post 12-14-12 05:37 #
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esselfortium
A Major Doomworld Concern


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To be honest, if MAP01 didn't do anything for you, you're probably not very likely to get much out of the rest of the wad. It's an episode of techbases. A lot of different kinds of techbases, and IMO there's a lot of creativity in their gameplay setups and layout progressions and visual designs, but they're techbases and that's the whole intent for this episode.

If BTSX were Doom.wad, this episode would be Knee-Deep in the Dead: if you don't like Hangar, you're probably not going to be too thrilled with Nuclear Plant or Computer Station. Maybe Deimos Anomaly or Hell Keep will deliver something more up your alley. :)

Last edited by esselfortium on 12-14-12 at 06:23

Old Post 12-14-12 06:07 #
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TheMionicDonut
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On that note, is BTSX going to have an actual thematic progress with the episodes? Or is it 40 more techbases? (something I personally am okay with)

Or is it too early to tell?

Old Post 12-14-12 07:36 #
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Captain Ventris
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Other posters have and will discuss the fantastic gameplay and architecture of this wad, but I want to bring up the color!

It is quite evident that the palette was not applied to give the maps different atmosphere. the maps' color design hinges on the new, pastel shades given to them. Contrasting and complimentary colors are applied carefully yet joyfully, making this one of the most colorful Techbase map sets I've ever seen, without actually giving the impression that it's colorful at all. The use of color is simply beautiful, and I'm not sure I've seen its like before. Bravo.

Old Post 12-14-12 07:45 #
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Mechadon
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TheMionicDonut said:
On that note, is BTSX going to have an actual thematic progress with the episodes? Or is it 40 more techbases? (something I personally am okay with)

Or is it too early to tell?


Nope, E2 and E3 are their own themes, more distinct from E1 and from each other.

Old Post 12-14-12 07:54 #
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printz
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The good thing is that it looks a lot better than other techbase wads out there, custom-textured or not.

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Old Post 12-14-12 08:57 #
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DoomUK
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Gez said:
GZDoom doesn't handle the effect used to make fake 3D at several places in this level.

Doomsday also doesn't care for it, but the bug manifests itself a little differently:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/DoomUK/Doomsday2012-12-1409-15-04-57_112217.jpg

Also, and I don't know whether it has anything to do with above issue, but a "warped surface" bug crops up in several levels. One particularly bad example was in map06:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v677/DoomUK/Doomsday2012-12-1409-19-05-92_1812798271.jpg

I appreciate that Doomsday isn't Doomworld's favourite source port, but it would be nice if someone could at least acknowledge my post and clarify whether it's the WAD's fault or Doomsday's. I'm not expecting any special treatment over a specific source port issue that only I care about :p

Old Post 12-14-12 09:35 #
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Gez
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DoomUK said:

Doomsday also doesn't care for it, but the bug manifests itself a little differently:-

img


That's not MAP12! This area in your screenshot looks perfectly fine in GZDoom.

Old Post 12-14-12 12:23 #
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DoomUK
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Gez said:
That's not MAP12! This area in your screenshot looks perfectly fine in GZDoom.

Fair enough. Curiously though, I'm not seeing what you're seeing in the same area that your map12 screenshot was taken.

Maybe we're talking about two different issues. :p

Old Post 12-14-12 12:31 #
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Tarnsman
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Those appear to be the fault of Doomsday.

Old Post 12-14-12 17:15 #
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TimeOfDeath
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esselfortium said:
To be honest, if MAP01 didn't do anything for you, you're probably not very likely to get much out of the rest of the wad.

I didn't like map01 much either. No power weapons or boss monsters = sadface

Also, I only counted 7 bfgs in 24 maps for ep1. Also, only a handful of cybers. imo, every map should have at the very least one cyber.

Old Post 12-14-12 17:45 #
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esselfortium
A Major Doomworld Concern


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Did you find all the secrets in MAP01?

Old Post 12-14-12 17:46 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Yeah, the ssg makes the map more fun, even though weapons in a secret = why :)

Old Post 12-14-12 17:48 #
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dew
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doom2 map01 did it! i think the correct explanation is "because of game immersion" and "because the mapper thought it was cool, and then all of us thought it was cool". there were concerns about difficulty curve, weapon progression, blah blah... but you can find cases that break all of these concepts, so yeah. attempts at coolness.

Old Post 12-14-12 18:54 #
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Phobus
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I'm very glad this episiode doesn't adhere to ToD's idea of the perfect mapset (there's only so many cyberdemons I'm willing to BFG-slap before it gets boring). I've started MAP09 and I'm not sure my feeling is more one of "this is really coherent" or "this is kind of all the same" at the moment. I can certainly see where the complaint that all of the maps tend to start you out with a shotgun and then escalate comes from and the visuals are very consistent. MAP06 gets bonus points from me for having more varied and interesting room shapes.

My continuous UV playthrough has left me massively overstocked already, so that's a very classical feeling :P

Old Post 12-14-12 20:07 #
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dew
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oh, it's pretty much impossible to balance ammo for continuous play without massively screwing over pistol starts. erik alm battled this with death exits, but essel hates those/thinks they'd kill the immersion, so continuous players were left to drown in all those shellboxes. as usual.

Old Post 12-14-12 20:41 #
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TimeOfDeath
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Phobus said:
(there's only so many cyberdemons I'm willing to BFG-slap before it gets boring).
One cyberdemon in each large map is too many? :P

Old Post 12-14-12 20:58 #
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esselfortium
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When BTSX was going to be a single 32-map wad, there were probably going to be death exits every 10 maps to account for the gameplay balance of Joshy's e2m1. Xaser was against it IIRC because it'd break some gameplay mods, and like Dew said, I was against it here because most megawads don't depend on it either, and it wouldn't really make sense thematically. If you're finding the ammo balance too forgiving, try pistol starting: the maps were all balanced for that to begin with, anyway.

Old Post 12-14-12 21:03 #
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Phobus
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Unfortunately, with mapsets like these, I do rather rely on the freedom to whack out my BFG to quickly deal with any nasty traps, or rocket launcher in order to spam/suppress Arch-Viles when they're used in the usual way (the one at the end of MAP05 felt like a dick-move to me, but I could counter it due to having all of the weapons, for example). I suppose I could pistol start a lower difficulty to avoid the potential frustration, or even pistol start UV and stop being a whiny bitch (I made a mod to make that process really easy, afterall), but it was just an observation really, because I know dew is correct and you either balance for continuous play or pistol starts - you can't do both.

@ToD: When it feels like it's ticking a quota or the encounters aren't particularly stand out, yes :P Metal Mothers has no cyberdemons due to its enemy theming and I certainly think that's quite refreshing!

Old Post 12-14-12 21:15 #
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