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Da Werecat
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Nice. :)

It's a shame that I won't be able to see forthcoming episodes for a while due to much slower connection.

Old Post 06-07-13 20:51 #
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pfl
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What's going on ?

Old Post 06-08-13 01:13 #
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Da Werecat
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Excuse me?

Old Post 06-08-13 10:20 #
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schwerpunk
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What's going on with your downgrade to a much slower connection? I'm guessing you're alright, because you don't seem distressed, but it'll be a shame to lose such a pivotal member of the original Monochrome crew. Not for good, hopefully!

Good luck with whatever you're embarking upon, though. :)

Last edited by schwerpunk on 06-08-13 at 11:22

Old Post 06-08-13 11:17 #
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Da Werecat
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Why, thank you.

It's not that bad, actually. It's just that I have to use my cell phone as a modem again, because I'm leaving the town for a few weeks. In fact, all of my wad updates were uploaded this way. But this type of connection is not very suited for video.

Old Post 06-08-13 21:53 #
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Suitepee
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Just thought I'd mention as a sidenote that within the annotations and/or video descriptions of my Let's Play of this project, I'm going to be linking the Doomworld user profiles of each mapper (if I can find them) as a form of crediting them for the map they made. So maybe expect a few PM's on here after I've LP'd your map!

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Old Post 06-09-13 00:10 #
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pfl
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@ John Suitepee: I saw your first video; entertaining. Have you tried the Staccato chaingun method yet ? :))) It works pretty damn well.

@ Da Werecat: are you linking a portable through your cell phone? Never done that. Is it as simple as connecting to any wifi?

Old Post 06-09-13 03:31 #
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Da Werecat
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Well, it depends on a phone model, I guess. I've tried devices from different manufacturers and each time it was different. At least for USB cable connection. My laptop has Bluetooth, but I never used it for anything.

Old Post 06-09-13 14:38 #
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schwerpunk
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Sounds expensive, having to connect through your phone's data plan. o_o

Old Post 06-09-13 14:44 #
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Da Werecat
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You pay for traffic by default, and that's really expensive.

But there are options with unlimited (well, technically) traffic and monthly payments. I have 50 MB per day. When exceeded, my speed turns to shit. But at least the price is tolerable.

I have a feeling that we live quite far from each other, so our service providers' policies may differ quite a lot. :)

Old Post 06-09-13 15:29 #
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joe-ilya
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When will we do "Monochrome Mapping project 2"?

Old Post 06-09-13 17:28 #
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Membrain
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I've been doing a lot of thinking about how I feel the second Monochrome project should be undertaken. What does everyone think about using this topic for discussion? Should we start a new one or just keep up with this one?

Old Post 06-09-13 20:00 #
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schwerpunk
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@ Membrain: Just use this one until we're ready to go. There's not too much going on post-release, so it's as good a place as any. I'm very interested to hear what ideas you may have. What do you think about the idea of forking the project into two streams: one mixed bag, like DWMMP1 (with some more restrictions); and a separate monochrome project with story and level-flow and all that?

@ joe-ilya: Probably by the end of this month? We still have to decide on the limitations of the next project(s). For my part, I'd rather wait until we get a full round of feedback from both SweetPee and the DWmegawad Club before we start counting our chickens. I'm sure there's a lot we can learn from listening to both of these parties.

One thing I would like to add to the next project is a unified base of textures to draw from. Perhaps making use of the custom assets that Da Werecat donated. I really liked "The Primitive"'s look.

Old Post 06-09-13 20:45 #
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Suitepee
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Currently uploading the second map of the project as per my Let's Play; sawd's 'The Temple of Light'. I'm glad that I'm being viewed as good feedback for any future MMP development; I may not be able to analyse DEU textures or know the basics of good level design creation, but hopefully I can help in some manner even if it's from a "gameplayer's perspective" as Capellan said once of my perspective of Doom wad analysis.

In brief; The Temple of Light was average, and like Dada seemed to focus more on visual splendour/architecture design than gameplay challenge. I did like the use of coloured lights though. My full thoughts will again be found on the DWMegawad Club thread!

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Old Post 06-09-13 22:10 #
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Membrain
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schwerpunk said:
@ Membrain: Just use this one until we're ready to go. There's not too much going on post-release, so it's as good a place as any. I'm very interested to hear what ideas you may have. What do you think about the idea of forking the project into two streams: one mixed bag, like DWMMP1 (with some more restrictions); and a separate monochrome project with story and level-flow and all that?


That's exactly what I was thinking. One of the things I noticed about the project was that the monochrome theme seemed to be a lot more popular among our fellow mappers than the idea of minimalist gameplay. I think we might split into two separate projects:

1) The Monochrome Mapping Project 2 - A repeat of this wad, with a theme of monochrome textures, but much more emphasis on doing impressive things with them. These maps would be very individual, possibly pistol start, maybe even with a hub linking them for non-linear progression. Perhaps we could make it so that you have to finish the easy maps before moving onto harder ones, but not give a specific order. Maps such as Dada and our resident urban/brick maps would be great examples of this type of map. We could even use ZDoom's translations to make textures that are of only one color, but not limit them so much to black and white.

2) The Minimalist Mapping Project - This would stick more closely to the idea of focusing on tight, string gameplay over visuals. What I would see in this project would be dark and light grey textures, a single switch texture, and a single door texture. That way, the maps have a similar theme to them while still having the openness to wild setups that the original two texture theme offered. I feel that making switches and doors the same color as the levels just muddled the flow a bit, so allowing for color only as a gameplay element might be a good idea. This project would probably benefit from having a consistent "plot" where the levels lead from one to another rather than a hub network.

Of course, these are just ideas and I'm definitely open to discussing improvements/alternatives.

Old Post 06-10-13 01:25 #
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pfl
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I am surprised to see The Monochrome Mapping Project 2 talk already !!!

Well, if we're already brainstorming it, It could be:

- at least different than the first one. Not a repeat of this wad Membrain :), it's already there ...

- I'd offer myself to go seek some special guests mappers. I won't name no names :)

- What about to let it turn around the idea of a Monochrome Mapping Project central start point hub from where all different styles/categories could be accessed; the Black & White Alley ... The Minimalist Gameplay Corner ... The Coloration Center. The Pistol Start One-Way. Even The UV Slaughter Madness & why not a Mini Progressive Lane.

Bizarre suggestion ...

EDIT. And a Newbie Bad Dump corner for my map :)

One last thing. I wish to give up my "co-leader title". I very feel I'm not TECH enough for the job. A co-leader that cannot give much of the answers is a "bad co-leader". I'd see myself more in the consultant/tester/motivator department :) Da Werecat has proven he has more to give for that rank :)

Last edited by pfl on 06-10-13 at 02:21

Old Post 06-10-13 02:01 #
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Da Werecat
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Next time, I'd put some more thought into the soundtrack.


pfl said:
Da Werecat has proven he has more to give for that rank :)

ZDoom is out of my league. :) So no, I don't think so. But thanks for your confidence.

Old Post 06-10-13 10:56 #
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Membrain
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I think my post might have been badly written, and I apologize for that. I didn't quite mean to say that we should repeat this project over again, but we do seem to have a lot of interest in this type of map generated by the project's release. That and we have a better working idea of what sort of themes our various mappers are going by, hence the two separate projects.

The first one would focus specifically on the more experimental maps like Dada while the second would be a collection of finely tuned maps based around the original idea of the project. In this iteration, we didn't really have a lot of gameplay collaboration on any maps with most of our edits based around fixing bugs. I see this second round as being a more concerted effort to create a solid, cohesive experience.

Old Post 06-10-13 14:38 #
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schwerpunk
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@ pfl: If that's the way you feel, I understand. Technical aptitude aside, you're still a great manager. Anyway, we've certainly got a lot of dedicated members to choose from for co-leads. Re leadership of future monochrome/minimalist project(s): I'm heading back to college once Summer is over, so my time/attention will be even more tightly restricted. So, depending on interest, I'll probably appoint a separate leader for each 'fork' of the mono/mini project and fall back into my general overseer role: Keeping things on track; rubber stamping new ideas; updating the OP; and just making sure no one is confused as to what we're making.

(Special guests? Sound intriguing! If you can hook 'em, the more the merrier!)

@ Membrain: Nah, your post was well written. It's just a straight brain-dump, which is what I was hoping for. This is a chance to re-envision the mono/mini endeavour, so no idea is too 'out there' in this, our brainstorming phase. I love what we've made, and I'm proud of every entry, but there's still a lot we can learn moving forward.

Case-in-point: I'm looking at some of the reviews we're getting from the DWmegawad Club, and they're pretty God damned brutal. It hurts, but it hurts good. Same with SuitePee's LPs, although he's a lot more tactful about it; one can tell he's not overly impressed with certain facets of the levels. Both of these parties are giving us priceless feedback, which is oxygen to mappers. The somewhat bash-y feedback is to be expected, I think, from such an experimental collection of maps from many lesser-known authors, and I hope you guys aren't taking this too hard. I don't want to change the open nature of the endeavor. I'm really proud of our work, and this kind of feedback is a great learning opportunity, so try not to take it too much to heart. Live and learn, and all that. :)

So yeah, in game-design parlance, we're potentially looking at a total 'reboot,' depending upon what we come up with this month. So let the brain droppings spew forth! No idea is too crazy to be at least considered. That goes for you lurkers, too. ;)

P.S. I like the idea of a hub. That came up a while ago, too, and gggmork had some ideas, as I recall.

EDIT: just fixed some grammar, and contradictory statements

Last edited by schwerpunk on 06-10-13 at 16:09

Old Post 06-10-13 16:02 #
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Da Werecat
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How about a bugfix release next month? We could at least assign more music and fix some moving door tracks. I'm pretty sure that someone will notice the latter.

Old Post 06-10-13 17:34 #
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schwerpunk
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Da Werecat said:
How about a bugfix release next month? We could at least assign more music and fix some moving door tracks. I'm pretty sure that someone will notice the latter.
I agree. Once we've got notes on all the maps, a bugfix update (including more music (which I'm surprised was so missed)) would be a great idea for future players. And most of the bugs are minor enough that, if we can't get individual authors to update their own maps, the fixes should be simple enough to apply without changing the maps significantly.

(I'm really rueing the Club getting to my map. If they thought what they'd played so far was easy, they're going to think my entry is a training mission or something. >_<)

Okay, so a bugfix update, tentatively, released two weeks into the next month (say, by July 14th) sounds good. In the meantime, are there any more ideas for the future of the mono/mini projects? Personally, I'd like to set up a resource WAD with a standard slew of textures to select from (for the more 'faithful' entries). Da Werecat's textures will definitely be in there. I also like the [Membrain's] idea of a standard door and switch texture to use. Preferably, something minimalistic. I will wade into SLAD3 myself if I have to, lol.

What about standardizing the port(s)-of-choice. G/ZDoom is a natural fit for the mixed-bag fork, but what about the more logical, story-driven one? Maybe something simpler, like Boom, or even vanilla!

Last edited by schwerpunk on 06-10-13 at 17:56

Old Post 06-10-13 17:46 #
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Suitepee
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I wouldn't mind seeing any kind of patches/fixes if you feel they are necessary; it's very convenient for me since I'm doing a pistol start Let's Play, as I can simply carry on regardless of what tweaks are made to earlier levels I've visited.
I think levels like The Temple of Light are alright without music, but levels like Support Storage definitely could have used some form of music in the background to accompany them.

As I type this I've just added part 3 (Support Storage) to my MMP Let's Play, in which Jaws In Space receives a bit of a lashing from my analysis of it!
And I'm currently uploading part 4 (Abusive) which was interesting and somewhat frustrating at the same time, but I liked the cyberpunk noir atmosphere.
My full thoughts on both will be on the DWMegawad Club thread.

Overall so far I'm continuing to enjoy the different level designs per map, I hope this kind of variety continues as I progress.

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Old Post 06-11-13 16:01 #
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cannonball
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Map04, I think the final room has a bug, I guess you are supposed to hit the switch them go through a few fights, but you can simply skip the switch and open the door normally to exit. Is this intentional?

Old Post 06-11-13 19:58 #
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schwerpunk
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Haha, not that I know of! I'll ask FractalXX, though.

Old Post 06-11-13 20:27 #
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Suitepee
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I just did a quick check of that on Abusive, and holy moly you can indeed just open the exit door as normal and stroll on through. That would have saved some time fighting off the 'survival' finale I guess!

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Old Post 06-11-13 21:37 #
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gggmork
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15: whiteroom, I think you can't get the red key now that jumping has been disabled. also says "this room has no purpose" still so might be wrong version, or maybe its supposed to say that.

Old Post 06-13-13 08:58 #
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schwerpunk
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FractalXX has confirmed that the shortcut on his map is unintentional and has issued a fix. I'm collecting fixed files and simple list of fix suggestions for when we release the final version next month.


gggmork said:
15: whiteroom, I think you can't get the red key now that jumping has been disabled. also says "this room has no purpose" still so might be wrong version, or maybe its supposed to say that.
That was always an unintended shortcut. The map is fully functional sans jumping.

Press this switch to lower the pillar with the red key. Although I will be making the pointless room inaccessible. Its insides serve no purpose.

Old Post 06-13-13 19:20 #
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Demonologist
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My initial skepticism turned into curiosity when I looked at the screenies and I've finally decided to play it after some time. It didn't go that smooth in the beginning but the more I played through - the more I admired it. So all in all I have to say that this is one of the most interesting abstract/surreal modern projects, and it contains some really outstanding pieces. Maps 18, 21 & 22 are absolutely superb, I was ready to applaud for such sheer creativity and gorgeous concepts. Also ggg's map offers cool dynamic gameplay and FractalXX's maps have something to show, too. Liked Jaws In Space's maps the least, can't say they're downright bad but compared to others they're rather bland. Liked Up Town anyway (though monsters behave strangely here).
23 sucks, I hate IoS maps.

This mapset of course has its flaws and issues (I remember some misalignments scattered across the maps and unpegged doortracks in map18), but overall I think it's worth attention and provides unique experience. I see that you're still accepting stuff, maybe I should unbury DB again and cook something up, I have one 'fiery' idea... Making no promises though.
Great work!

Last edited by Demonologist on 06-14-13 at 16:15

Old Post 06-14-13 15:39 #
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pfl
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I had noticed the map 04 ending "duality". I thought it was a fine "shortcut" and let it be. I should have asked.

And yes, criticism has proven to be needlessly rude, but this all over the place nowadays; le goût du jour. It'll eventually set asides for something better.

The "negative iniatial contact" was a little to be expected since Stardate 20X6, preceeding it, is an Epic mapset that will take it's share in this year's december awards. I mean, coming from that to an infinately variable minimalistic experimental mapset was sure to change the mood :) The wad grows on you and I feel it'll ultimately be positive.

Old Post 06-14-13 17:23 #
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Demonologist
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I wouldn't care about criticism if I was you. It was clear since the very beginning that this project isn't for everyone and thus won't be appreciated by everyone. You make maps and other stuff for enjoyment and fun, not for high ratings or praise I suppose?

Old Post 06-14-13 18:30 #
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