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Membrain
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Good to hear. :) I hope you don't take my criticisms too personally. I don't feel like your reviews have been bad in any sense; quite the contrary, in fact. I just felt there to be an issue with the scale by which several reviewers, including yourself to a degree, seemed to miss the project guidelines that the earlier contributors were holding ourselves to.

Anyway, I've been working on a number of other textures which should offer some variation in the maps. There's the natural, industrial, and tech sets (Among others not completed but in the works) as well as several textures that are more abstract to allow for the sort of maps myself, schwerpunk, and FractalXX created to have more interesting visuals in their designs without forcing them into a grid.

Also, while schwerpunk, jawsinspace, and I have both weighed in on this, what're everyone's opinions on using UDMF as a standard for the next project?

@JiS: UDMF is just a specific mapping format that adds a lot of simplicity and functionality (As well as cross-port compatibility) to maps. It allows for textures/flats to be offset, scaled, and otherwise manipulated in ways that no other format currently supports, as well as supporting ZDoom-specific ACS scripts. Of course, UDMF limits port choice significantly, though not nearly as much as using Zdoom's Doom-in-Hexen format. I personally feel that it adds more than it detracts, but I am more than wiling to accept Boom compatibility as a baseline. (However, forcing vanilla compatibility may be too much hassle, IMO)

Old Post 06-21-13 19:11 #
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Jaws In Space
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Okay, thanks for clearing that up. I see the benefits of using UDMF, but I don't use Doombuilder as my map editor so I wouldn't even know where to start.

I agree that going with vanilla compatibility would be a bad idea, especially since I was the only one who tried it for this wad & didn't even succeed with a few maps.

I still like the idea of using any format of your choice, besides don't gggmork, cacowad, schwerpunk, & joe-llya have maps already started? I do like the idea of custom textures though, the pure black & grey textures did start to get pretty bland after the first few maps. I also liked St Alfonsos suggestion during his playthrough of just having 256 solid colors & each map would use 1 or 2 of them, but I was kind of doing that anyways so that may just be my preference.

Old Post 06-22-13 00:09 #
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schwerpunk
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@ Membrain: Those textures are even better than what I had imagined, so wow, good job. Just the right level of abstract that their context will inform what they are perceived as.

Old Post 06-22-13 01:08 #
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Suitepee
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Membrain said:
While the MMP thread would probably be better for this, I'd like to get a test of the waters here. Out of curiosity, in what fashion should switches be... well, switched up for the next project? With the inclusion of a new texture pack, doors and lifts will probably make more appearances, but switch hunts are hardly ever fun. Likewise, are there any varieties of gameplay that people would like to see more/less of?


Just bumping this thought from the DWMegawad Club thread. Any thoughts from the Monochrome crew and other people playing this wad?

I so far like the mixture of switches in the Monochrome Mapping Project, although I've yet to play maps 15-23 as of the time of this post. I've not had any problems with switches so far.

What I'd certainly like to see is less maps that (gameplay) feel the same for MMP2. Each map should be seen as an individual thing and should bring something different to the table, even whilst keeping to a specific 'style' and even if one mapper is contributing several maps to the project.
Basically, I want to see more "FractalXX" variety and less "Membrain" similarity. (I still like Membrain's style to some extent, don't think I'm bashing on him!)

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Old Post 06-25-13 14:55 #
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schwerpunk
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We haven't even begun to discuss the gameplay yet. We're still on aesthetics. But this is as good a time as any to start: Personally, I would like each map to play well, regardless of how it looks. Or at least be very visually unique (see MAP01), to the extent that the visuals rearrange how you are able to play the map.

Re MMP2: I guess we're all now talking about a mixed bag of maps like in the original MMP, yeh? Just want to be clear. As opposed to the more coherent and logical side project (with a story, progression, all that)? I'll just call it Monochrome Adventure for now.

Personally, I'm not sure how feasible it would be to make each map truly distinct for MMP2, at least if we plan on making at least 23 maps again. Although... the switch to UDMF would open up a lot of possibilities... Hmm.

Old Post 06-25-13 21:14 #
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Suitepee
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Rest assured I'd be Let's Playing the heck out of any MMP2 (or other name) that emerges! I'm still enjoying MMP!
Also I just finished playing schwerpunk's map (White Room), will be uploading the video and DWMegawad Club writeup tomorrow. Needless to say that his map proved to be quite the challenge for a while.

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Old Post 06-25-13 22:26 #
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CorSair
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Thoughts about the second take on MMP:

The limitation I see is one color in different shades or limited colors. But it should not be limited in textures though. Should give bit more leeway.

The map format should be either one dedicated format, or least properly arranged this time. That one we did was nasty mess, IMO. (Although ordering was quite decent.)

Needs more testing and more accurate deadline. (Don't know if I somehow missed it first time when I joined in. :P )


I am not sure if I am participating this time, but we'll see. First I need to revise my mistakes I made (aside finishing my works in hurry.)

Old Post 06-26-13 00:20 #
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Jaws In Space
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Alright so here is my bug fix version of Outpost Gamma.

And for those who missed it here is Support Storage bug fix.

Control Center & Up Town are still in progress, I'm waiting on Suitpees review before I really get into Up Town though.

Old Post 06-27-13 02:11 #
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Cacowad
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glad to hear about a MMP2!

updated map after reading comments on MC:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5...ic_affinity.wad

EDIT: changelog:

secrets should display as intended now.
arch-viles removed from the random spawner.
drastically reduced the chance for a pain elemental to appear.
added low tier monsters into said spawner even i higther difficulties.
removed any kind of scripted barriers.
made the rocket launcher non-secret.
made avabile more health\ammo where needed.
removed 3 spawnspot from the plasma gun chamber to avoid too many monsters in a damanging area.
added a blue armor.
bonus nigtmare mode changed accordingly, but not well tested.

Last edited by Cacowad on 06-27-13 at 22:56

Old Post 06-27-13 12:09 #
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schwerpunk
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On my phone right now, but I'll add these to the 'fix' folder on my desktop when I get home.

@ JiS & Cacowad: can I get a synopsis of the changes for the text file?

Old Post 06-27-13 18:48 #
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Suitepee
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Bump.

Noticed something that seemed to also flummox st.alfonzo and co in their playthrough of Phendrena's 'Monochromatic Nightmare'; how do you open the door that says 'DOES NOT APPEAR TO WORK' after acquiring all three keys?
I searched the map for a good while and couldn't find a way to progress normally (having flicked all the switches I oould find), so I was forced to cheat to beat the level.

If this is some playtesting bug that was missed, or an engine error with the latest version of GZDoom, I wouldn't mind knowing either way since it could also be fixed for the upcoming patch?

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Old Post 06-29-13 22:16 #
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cannonball
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Go into the building where the red key door is, hit the switch in the room and return to the central part of the building where there is a lift, go up the lift and go along the platform, there will be an opening at the end now, go through this tunnel and you will reach a new room, there is a cross in one of the corners, walk over that and a switch will be revealed, press that to access that door.

Old Post 06-29-13 22:56 #
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Suitepee
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cannonball said:
Go into the building where the red key door is, hit the switch in the room and return to the central part of the building where there is a lift, go up the lift and go along the platform, there will be an opening at the end now, go through this tunnel and you will reach a new room, there is a cross in one of the corners, walk over that and a switch will be revealed, press that to access that door.


If you mean the platform with the white arrow on the floor, nothing happened with this when I pressed the switch in my playthrough. It just remained closed. You'll see what I do when I upload my post of the map tomorrow in the DWMegawad Club thread.

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Old Post 06-29-13 23:16 #
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Getsu Fune
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After playing through the entire set of maps I have to say this:

This map set was okay. There were some spills and thrills as I played along. I could see many maps that could have been improved, some on a large scale. Having only one color certainly made my experience more interesting. Sadly, most of the color I saw was grey, and even though there were different shades it somehow doesn't appeal much. Also, brown just doesn't work for some maps as it really is a bad texture overall. Some maps like MAP13 (with brown and grey) seem to break the monochrome flow, and not in a good way. Combat throughout wasn't hard though. As far as good maps, MAP05, 14, 15, 17, 18, and 21 were clearly the best. 22 could have been an amazing level had it not been for a dumb switch hunt. Many maps were broken in a way, like MAP20 and MAP23, hopefully there are fixes now. All in all, it was rather enjoyable playing the set and was quite enjoyable.

And now, I feel like giving an apology as some of my reviews in the Megawad club may have been a little too harsh. I didn't realize how fun Jaws in Space's maps were until I played them after giving my review. Aesthetically, they are a weak point, but I think that a casual play through the levels that JIS has made is very fun. The reason I was sour was because I'm a completionist when it comes to playing, and I got lost trying to find things. I later realized that if I ignore trying to get 100% the levels can be quite fun. I felt like my reviews for some of Jaws's maps, like MAP16 and MAP19, didn't do any good justice. Overall, I quite enjoyed Jaws's maps now.

Old Post 06-30-13 15:13 #
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Suitepee
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Cacowad said:
updated map after reading comments on MC:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/5...ic_affinity.wad



Thanks for this update Cacowad, I will be using this version when I get around to your map next (just finished Up Town & am uploading it as I type) in my Let's Play of MMP. I hope this is the version you're happy to be played out, instead of the original.

Also while I'm here, I'm going to be delaying the Let's Play part of the final map of this project until the mapfix/patch comes into effect, so if I stop after MAP22 for a little while you'll know why.

Otherwise I've been impressed with the last couple of maps starting with White Room, with Up Town even providing (although apparently an unintended monster thing) an interesting gameplay idea.

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Old Post 06-30-13 20:11 #
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Membrain
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Necromancy go go!

Finished up quite a few textures, as well as some picked from the MMP1 wad. (Anyone whose textures I've used, please let me know if you have any problems with them being used for other maps?) Everything is in UDMF for Zdoom format, so I'd recommend looking around in ZDoom or GZDoom. If the concensus goes that we should use a different port, I can change them to be Boom-compatible, but this was a lot easier to prototype.

Resource wad (Load this first before the test map)
Test map /w most textures

What do you guys think about the direction this is going?

Old Post 07-04-13 02:51 #
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Jaws In Space
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Okay here is my bugfix version of Control center. Some changes:
-Added 82 more monsters
-Added 50% more health
-Added a chainsaw on HMP

Here is Up Town
-Added variation in lighting wherever I could
-Attempted to make doors & lifts more visible
-Added a few new monsters, & moved some old ones around
-Changed the direction some of the monster are facing so now some are more likely to wake up

-The only thing I don't know how to fix is the sleepy monsters, does anyone know what would be causing it?

Outpost Gamma changes:
-Map is now textured blue
-Added more light variation
-Removed 4 doors to open up the map somewhat
-widened a few hallways
-Added a new optional room to the outside area & gave it more structure
-Moved all deathmatch starts to optional room in outside area
-Altered monster placement slightly

Support Storage changes:
-Changed the textures from orange to white, grey, & grey crates
-Added more light variation
-Added more height variation
-Made the cyberdemon fight less optional, & moved the exit
-Widened a lot of the hallways
-Made 2 of the longer hallways much shorter

I will not be making any changes to Brown Room or Town Hall, so all of my maps should now be ready for the Bugfix version to be released in 10 days.

Last edited by Jaws In Space on 07-06-13 at 17:03

Old Post 07-05-13 21:25 #
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Suitepee
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Just a quick bump to ask if that patch is coming out anytime soon, or whether it will make the deadline of July 14th?

Also posting to say I haven't stopped doing videos for this project, I've just been busy/lazy in the last week or so. Part 20 (Monochromatic Affinity, Cacowad's patched version) is being uploaded as I post, and I will let you all know my full thoughts in the DWMegawad Club that I'll be slightly necro'ing in the process!

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Old Post 07-08-13 14:28 #
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Da Werecat
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If no one is working on the new version, I will continue to maintain the wad.

What's with the IoS level? Is it fixed yet?

Old Post 07-13-13 13:55 #
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schwerpunk
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Da Werecat said:
If no one is working on the new version, I will continue to maintain the wad.

What's with the IoS level? Is it fixed yet?

Go for it, Da Werecat. That would be much appreciated, as I don't know much about packing levels. So far we've got MAPs 3, 4, 6, 11, 19, and 20. No fix on Obsidian's IoS MAP23. Just played it again, and yeah, the problem is monsters telefragging the player. I'll send him a PM after this, but if anyone wants to take a quick look at it, to see if they can find a functional fix, that's cool. Just don't spend too much time on it, as Obsidian may have already come up with the fix!

If we can get that fixed, then the bugfix update will be complete. It won't be the most polished wad to ever come out, but it will at least be playable from start to finish. Not bad for an experimental project. :)

@ Membrain: That is a great proof-of-concept. In fact, I'd say most of that is perfect as-is! I might submit a few minor tweaks as suggestions, but you're definitely barking up the right tree with this look. I especially like the the simple inverted textures. Really gives off a different vibe.

Last edited by schwerpunk on 07-13-13 at 16:45

Old Post 07-13-13 16:40 #
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Membrain
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I don't particularly have any other ideas for textures, so any and all contributions and suggestions are more than welcome! I think, from this point on, we should probably start establishing just what sort of maps we're looking for in the second project. (I'd offer my help on bug-fixing, but you guys definitely seem to have that well managed.) Are we looking to have a number of boiled-down, fundamentalist Doom maps, or are we looking more for each map to have a strong identity and unique gameplay?

Old Post 07-13-13 21:53 #
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schwerpunk
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I might have a couple ideas for some textures... Anyway, save that for later. As for gameplay, I would like to see some maps exploring the fundamentals of map design, but yeah, overall it would be easier to shoot for strong, unique maps for most entries. The kind of designs that stick in your head and can be summed up in a phrase (think of maps like 'the crusher,' 'the eye,' etc.).

Also, got this from Obsidian re MAP23:


Obsidian wrote on 07-13-13 22:26:No probs!

This version has a damaging floor instead of the teleporter lines: it isn't the most ideal solution, but transferring it to ZDoom would be a lot harder. I also put some alternate player starts and deathmatch starts so it doesn't crash if run in those modes: it isn't tailored for these modes bear in mind. :-) Hope this helps.

Old Post 07-14-13 04:24 #
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Obsidian
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Yay for being efficient, aye? :-)

Old Post 07-14-13 04:46 #
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Suitepee
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So erm.....it's July 15th and where's that MMP patch?

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Old Post 07-15-13 07:17 #
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Da Werecat
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Obsidian, the SSG room is still shifted north by 8 mp in your version.

Old Post 07-15-13 11:45 #
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Da Werecat
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Jaws In Space, your overhaul of Outpost Gamma is impressive, if somewhat hard on eyes. However, the player is not taking any damage in most (if not all) of the new nukage pools.

Control Center still has some sliding door tracks. I don't know how many, because one of the new traps made me ragequit.

Old Post 07-15-13 13:35 #
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Jaws In Space
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Outpost Gamma Fixed , that was dumb of me. I also made the walkways lifts so you can get out of the slime if you fall into it.

Rage quit on Control Center huh? Yeah I don't blame you, I've only been able to beat this version once on UV. Which trap killed you?

Last edited by Jaws In Space on 07-16-13 at 00:06

Old Post 07-15-13 23:49 #
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Da Werecat
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Gazillion of chaingunners appearing behind me. Too cheap to retry.

I'm still trying to understand why it was necessary to add another godzillion of monsters to the map that was already crowded.

Old Post 07-16-13 00:23 #
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Obsidian
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Da Werecat said:
Obsidian, the SSG room is still shifted north by 8 mp in your version.


?

How does this affect the map in general?

Old Post 07-16-13 05:15 #
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Da Werecat
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It looks weird. And it's an obvious error.

Should I fix it once again? Which nodebuilder were you using to save the map? Just in case.

Old Post 07-16-13 10:50 #
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