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dobu gabu maru
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http://i.imgur.com/GNFeh.jpg

What is the DWmegawad Club?
This is a place where we settle down, have a cup of tea (or drink of your choice) and take a month to play through a megawad on our own, together! Any keen observations, criticisms, or frustrated ranting about it goes here in the discussion. As long as you want to say something about what you've played, feel free to speak your mind.

Can I join?
Sure. The only rule is that you have to play at least some of the levels in our monthly megawad to contribute, but you're generally encouraged to finish the whole thing, even if you've played it before.

What levels am I allowed to post about?
The rule of thumb is that the last level added to your log will be the same number as the day of the month. So don't post about MAP18 when we're a couple days in, but you can post about as many levels up to that limit that you want (for instance, if today is January 5th, you can play up to MAP05 whether in straight sitting or doing it day by day as we've done before).

Do I have to post an entry every day?
Nope, not at all. This is only for our more enthusiastic members. As long as you play through it with us you’re part of the club.

----------

The megawad we are playing through is Memento Mori

>>>DOWNLOAD HERE<<<
(Alternatively, I've compiled the music together and gave each map an automap name if you'd prefer a single consolidated version of the megawad: DOWNLOAD HERE)

Truly an old classic, Memento Mori was first released way back in 1996 as one of the first community megawads, put together by Denis and Thomas Möller, and featuring contributions from 19 other mappers (including Plutonia's Casali brothers). Offering up a variety of gameplay styles that (hopefully!) haven't aged a bit, strap yourself in to experience one of the major cornerstones in the pantheon of Doom megawads!

The maps and authors are as follows:


01 - The Teleporter by Michiel Rutting and Denis Möller
02 - The Bridge by David Davidson
03 - Interlock by Tom Mustaine
04 - The Stand by Jens Nielsen
05 - Hell's Kitchen by Orin Flaharty
06 - The Powerstation by Eric Sargent and Mark Klem
07 - Not That Simple by Jens Nielsen
08 - And the Dead Shall Rise by Orin Flaharty
09 - High-Tech Grave by Thomas Möller
10 - The Mansion by Alden Bates
11 - Halls of Insanity by Eric Reuter and Denis Möller
12 - Kinetics by Mackey "Avatar" McCandlish
13 - The Inmost Dens II by Denis Möller
14 - Aquaduct by Tom Mustaine
15 - Karmacoma by Florian Helmberger
16 - Stoned by Kurt Schmid
17 - House of Thorn by Eric Sambach
18 - A Dead Man's Town by Henrik Rathje
19 - Maltraiter by Michael Rapp
20 - Mountain Depot by Scott Lampert
21 - Twilight Lab by Andy Badorek
22 - The Escape by Denis Möller
23 - Showdown by Milo Casali
24 - Diehard by Dario Casali
25 - Cesspool by William Sullivan
26 - Between Scattered Corpses by Thomas and Denis Möller
27 - Fort Hades by Scott Lampert
28 - City of the Unavenged by Jens Nielsen
29 - Island of Death by Thomas Möller
30 - Viper by Milo Casali
31 - Technology Base by Denis Möller
32 - The Hidden Slime Factory by Mark Klem


And of course, kmxexii has a great contemporary reading to go along with your playthrough on his blog.

----------
OLD THREADS
BF_THUD!
Community Chest 4
Jenesis
MAYhem 2012
Memento Mori
Interception
2002: A Doom Odyssey
Hadephobia
Coffee Break & Fava Beans & Double Impact
HYMN
Stardate 20X6 & Monochrome Mapping Project
Realm of Chaos
Back to Saturn X E1 & Favillesco E1
Kama Sutra
Unholy Realms & Zone 300
Vile Flesh
Ultimate Doom
Whitemare & Sacrament
Scythe
Epic 2
Whitemare 2

Last edited by dobu gabu maru on 04-02-14 at 06:51

Old Post 01-05-13 09:56 #
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cannonball
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Right lets start this
Map01 - The Teleporter
Well this map is pretty rough for a map01 due to lots of sergeants and little health. Died twice, I remember speedrunning this a long time ago. There is a major bug of sorts where you can seal the teleporter before all the monsters are released, but that's not an issue playing casually.
Fun map if a little frustrating with the hitscanners.
I shall be playing one map a day still unless other factors intervene

Old Post 01-05-13 11:26 #
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Memfis
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Here is my demos (not FDAs) for the first 5 maps.

map01 - great opening scene. The underground part is OK but very symmetrical. In the final battle I had low HP and was forced to hide in the building and snipe all the monsters so it wasn't very fun. Overall I feel like this map is missing something that other megawad openers have but I'm not sure what exactly.

map02 - strange map, large open areas and dark tunnels. Don't like the instant moving floor at the start. Demon/spectre fights are very easy by modern standards but they still force you to move a lot so it's all good fun. The soulsphere secret was new for me.

map03 - cool d2m01/tntm01 texturing, funny level progression (you pick up the red key in front of the yellow door). Nice map but very short and a bit cramped at times.

map04 - confusing map, at first I didn't realise that there was a switch in the starting room so I tried to do the coop puzzle in single player. :) Yeah, I don't remember this map too well. Overall it looks bland to me but the combat is fun (and I almost died once :) ). The YK area is dumb though, who would I want to fight these HKs and barons?

map05 - first blood. :D I jumped down to some spiders, got trapped and quickly died. Fun open areas with monsters shooting from everywhere, very cool music.

Old Post 01-05-13 11:35 #
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Phobus
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Thanks for setting this up dobugabumaru, particularly with the all-in-one package too. I'll be playing in ZDoom, continuously on UV like before.

I figure I might as well catch up to the limit today (as it's a weekend) and that will leave me some slack for later in the month. As such:


MAP01: The Teleporter: It's small, has lively music and opens up with a memorable view of a pentagram (IIRC, the author wrote somewhere that he spent ages working out the co-ordinates for it with a calculator) made of blood, with a load of sergeants to kill. Ticks all the boxes for a good MAP01 and then kicks our arse with negligable health and surprisingly dense monster placement, almost entirely hitscanners. The 3 demons at the end are pointless, as they couldn't even get past eachother to leave the room and attack me, but I like that the imp teleporter can be shut off before the imps are all through by a quick-thinking player (I opted to kill 'em all).

All told, pretty nice for a '96 map, but surprisingly hard!


MAP02: The Bridge: Comprised almost entirely of new textures, this map is probably the sort of visual people think of when they cast their minds back to their first play of MM. It's pretty orthogonal, with a bit of detailing here and there that you'd expect to see in places today. Weirdly, the textures seemed auto-aligned (as in, used like a continuous wall paper with no cut-offs, but not the alignment one would do manually these days) in the bit past the blue key door... That wasn't around in '96, was it? Lots of traps, but as the map seems to largely be Demons it's not threatening. There's a few inescapable nukage pits, but you'd have to be a tool to jump in them, as you're highly unlikely to get knocked in by accident. I liked the way the secret is more than just a little closet, particularly as the loop around doesn't displace you too far from where you wanted to be.

This map is alright, but far from exciting.


MAP03: Interlock: Seems to crib heavily from the MAP01s of Doom 2 and Evilution, this is another dense map (all 3 keys in such a small area) with a low monster count, but plenty of hitscanners. Also features a lot of moving parts! This map isn't too threatening, but I did come in with a shotgun, chaingun, soulsphere and over 100 blue armour, so that doesn't surprise me. I really quite like this one, although the fact that it has 2 secret sectors both in the same secret area is a minor detractor, particularly as you can step over the first one without hitting it and then surprise yourself by getting it on the way back in (then again, that is ZDoom making a show of it, so probably not so bad in the original .exe)


MAP04: The Stand: This one's a bit weird. You start off with loads of medikits, but then eat shit from the hitscanners and imps opposite you, unless you push out into the corridor, whereby other hitscanners will own you instead. There's a co-op only puzzle in the middle courtyard and plenty of other clever constructs, set-ups and motions. Thing is, it's kind of unintuitive. Some of the secrets really need you to find the automap secret if you don't already know they're there and some things which you think must be secrets are actually just optional areas, hidden away. A secret is mandatory in your path to the red key, which you need to get the yellow key. Ending the map is similarly convoluted, with a switch hidden in a monster closet that you can defang earlier in the map only becoming accessible when the map is done.

Making mention of the monster density is becoming surprisingly frequent, so I'll gloss over that and raise a complaint with game play in this map instead (other than how 90s the progression is): Hell Nobles. The damn things are almost invariably speed bumps in this map, with the notable exception of the two Barons at the end, who are a credible threat if you're not suitably prepared.

I kind of like the creativity and variety in this map and kind of think it's also symbolic of the lessons we've learnt in the intervening 16 years or so. This map also took longer for me to get 100% kills and secrets in before leaving than the previous 3 put together, so it does feel kind of slow for it.


MAP05: Hell's Kitchen: I saved for the first time in my playthrough at the start of this map, as the 'O' of Destruction vibe gives me a sense that I may, at last, be at risk of dying. Sure enough, I did get killed once or twice going into a secret before lucking my way through with a handy telefragging.

I really like this map. Lots of different paths, good secrets, optional areas, tight design and a good theme done well. Couple of imps are essentially useless (I think one of them may even be stuck) but otherwise it's a well-done map that I'm glad I've played again. Getting 100% kills and secrets felt like an accomplishment this time around, even if it took a while.


Pretty nice start so far, let's hope it continues in a positive vein!

@Memfis: I think "health" is what MAP01 is missing that other megaWAD openers have ;)

Old Post 01-05-13 12:32 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
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Well, since I've been recording demos of this I may as well say what's been happening to me in them.

Map 01 - 03 : Nothing too rough, got a few surprises in map 03 with imps and demons, but nothing real to complain about.

Map 04 : A lot of barons and hell knights pretty much sums this one up. A few very hard to find secrets too. Anyone know how to get that timed puzzle in the courtyard?

Map 05: Slime. Not too bad though. A few heckling revenants here or there.

Map 06: Okay, this is where shit got real for me. If you've watched the demo you know I died in this map. A lot of hitscanners. The close corridor fighting in this one will get you if you're not good at it.

Map 07: What a deadly evil map. The first archie is put in such a tricky spot. Again, a lot of hell knights and hitscanners. The ratio of chaingunners seems to be going up now. Fun. You pretty much won't get through this one without finding the rocket launcher.

Map 08. Easy map, at least compared to the last one. Nothing too bad here except for a fight with 4 barons and an annoying lift that isn't labeled, yeah the blue key one.

Map 09. Another evil map. Hitscanner hell part 2, this time there are mancs. Anyway, some evil traps in this one so watch your backs.

Map 10. A breather map. Just explore pretty much. The outside area can be a little rough.

Map 11. A little more rough, but still nothing like 7 or 9. Great map actually. A lot of narrow corridors and weird shaped rooms. Doomy goodness.

Old Post 01-05-13 12:34 #
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cannonball
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Screw it
Map02 - The Bridge
Not a bad level, pretty easy and nicely playable with some decent traps. The secret is nice here.
Map03 - Interlock
Yet again not a bad level. Enough action going on with some traps. Gameplay is pretty easy but enough hitscanners to make it a little threatening.
Map04 - The Stand
A much more challenging level, I was impressed by the use of hell knights to make them seemingly quite threatening. Though there probably was a little overkill. Whilst the level was complex, I didn't get too lost, though I have played this wad quite a bit which might help.
Mao05 - Hells Kitchen
Tricky level in the style of Map11 of doom2, not bad with catchy music. Solid design, though I must have missed a plasma gun after picking up a load of cells :/

Old Post 01-05-13 13:18 #
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Phobus
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There's no plasma gun on MAP05 (even in multiplayer). I assume the cells are there as collectibles or preparation for later maps.

Oddly, the wall to the left of the player start serves as a switch to lower the two lifts with the shotguns on. I only noticed in the editor and having just used it in game, I don't see why this is the case. They're not too high to reach in the first place :\

Old Post 01-05-13 15:35 #
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dobu gabu maru
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Hahaha wow, I didn't expect so many people to run through the first five maps already! Makes me wonder if we should even have an upper-limit on the maps you should play, or if we should just have it be "finish this megawad in a month". The only thing I get concerned about now is people getting bored having to wait to play through a couple more maps, which slows them down from continuous play... or maybe the weekend idea is what helps.

Old Post 01-05-13 18:16 #
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Capellan
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General Rainbow Bacon said:
Map 11.


From the OP: "The rule of thumb is that the last level added to your log will be the same number as the day of the month."

Old Post 01-05-13 18:21 #
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Phobus
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dobugabumaru said:
Hahaha wow, I didn't expect so many people to run through the first five maps already! Makes me wonder if we should even have an upper-limit on the maps you should play, or if we should just have it be "finish this megawad in a month". The only thing I get concerned about now is people getting bored having to wait to play through a couple more maps, which slows them down from continuous play... or maybe the weekend idea is what helps.


See, on the average working day, playing just the one map is ideal as I can often fit it in during my lunch break or comfortably after work. Weekends I'm not always in a position to play Doom, so the current loose guideline works perfectly for me as I'd only fall 2-3 maps behind at worst and can easily catch back up, taking my current approach. I quite like the map-a-day pacing as a result :)

Old Post 01-05-13 18:55 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
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@capellan: oops. I didn't see that, but it DOES say play at YOUR own pace. If my pace is play the whole damn thing in one sitting...

E: Whoa whoa whoa, i just realized. I started this megawad club thing. I'll do it how I please. *bitchslap*

The General orders you to 50 pushups on your knuckles

Old Post 01-05-13 19:20 #
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Capellan
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HMP, continuous play, frequent save/load. Just like I played it back in the nine-six. :)

Map01
MM's opening pentagram is visually impressive (esp. back in the day). So noted an image was it that it was consciously referenced in map01 of MM2. The plethora of sergeants in the opening room also lets you know that this isn't going to be as gentle an opening map as most wads allow. No plinking off troopers with the pistol, here. It also shows how dangerous multiple sergeants can be.

Architecture is effective enough, though not especially interesting. No secrets, which I suspect led to a lot of frustrated wall-humping at the time. Nowadays, prboom tells you that you found a secret while you're standing in a hallway, so you know something's hinky.


Map02
Debuts some of the new textures (and very nice they are too). Also features engine tricks like see-through doors and instalifts, which were novel and new back then. The 'bridge' sections in particular look nice, though they're short and simple by today's standards. I'm sure a 2013 map on this theme would have a much longer bridge, with enemies sniping from both sides and a flock of cacos to liven things up :)

Gameplay is pretty easy, on the whole. Plenty of ammo, a more generous hand with the health than map01, and generous, ummissable armor drops.

I don't see any real need for this map to have all three keys, but that's not a major complaint.


Someone asked about texture-alignment: as these maps would have been made at the latest in very early 96, all texture alignment would have had to be done by hand; manually calculating the X and Y offsets and assigning them to sidedefs individually. Various tricks could be used to help simplify this. Map02 uses several of them: sticking closely to the 64x64 grid so that most textures tile OK anyway; using textures that almost tile perfectly when set at a 45 degree angle on that grid (check the angled corners of the firsy courtyard closely, and you'll see that I mean), and of course, liberal use of insets and boundary textures, like SUPPORT3, to skip the need to do the work. Some manual texture offsetting has been done, though - the room with the lift to the yellow key is an example.

Old Post 01-05-13 19:35 #
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mouldy
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This is one of those classic wads that i've seen mentioned a lot but can never remember if I played it all the way through. I'll be going through it all on UV from pistol starts as usual

01 - The Teleporter by Michiel Rutting and Denis Möller

I'll have to forgive the basic looks given the age of this wad, gameplaywise its fairly harsh for an opening map with mainly shotgunners and not much in the way of health, but I made it through in one piece. Layout is short and basic, but unusual enough to be memorable.

02 - The Bridge by David Davidson

A simple series of consecutive key hunts with accompanying monster traps. These maps are quite short so far, and haven't managed to kill me yet. I'll be interested to see if the design gets more ambitious as it progresses, I honestly can't remember playing this before.

03 - Interlock by Tom Mustaine

This is the first one to kill me, with a nasty ambush from behind by some concealed pinkies. Strangely the rest of the map hands you the keys without much incident thereafter. Also I managed to get in the secret area but didn't find any items there, only a suspicious looking pillar...

04 - The Stand by Jens Nielsen

Quite a convoluted and mysterious map this one, full of secret passages and tighly spaced combat. The layout is quite a bit more adventurous than previous maps, and was lengthy enough to make me save half way through. This is the first map I remember playing before, though I suspect thats because I couldn't get the SSG last time, which made dealing with the barons a real chore. The gun sits on a little platform which I figured must lower with a secret switch somewhere, but this time i managed to just crawl around the thin ledge and grab it. Certainly made things a lot more fun than last time.

05 - Hell's Kitchen by Orin Flaharty

I died pretty quickly on this one, minced by hitscanners. I found the going a touch annoying in places, having to inch my way across walkways carefully picking off everything before it got a chance to fill me with bullets. I felt the larger weapons came a bit late in the day - having to deal with a pain elemental with only a shotgun can be a slog, followed by 2 hell knights at close quarters, then 2 arachnotrons, one of which I had to finish off with my pistol for lack of ammo. Maybe I missed an earlier chaingun somewhere.. I didn't find a plasma rifle either, though there was some ammo for it. Shells became plentiful after that, and a secret room allowed me to pretty much clear the final room in complete safety. Interesting layout though.

Last edited by mouldy on 01-05-13 at 20:39

Old Post 01-05-13 20:28 #
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Capellan
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Phobus said:
MAP03: Interlock: Seems to crib heavily from the MAP01s of Doom 2 and Evilution


The latter is unlikely, since MM came out three months before Final Doom.


Map03
A solid level that is definitely drawing inspiration from Doom 2 map01. Gameplay is mostly pretty straightforward, though there are a couple of ambushes that might surprise. The last one is ironically the least imposing - it would be pretty easy to slip into the exit without drawing much attention from the newly released sergeants.

Again, three keys seemed unecessary, given the size of the level.

Old Post 01-06-13 07:51 #
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kmxexii
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Re: MAP03: you are seeing Tom mustaine's style more than anything as he did TNTMAP01 and short techbase levels cribbing from Doom 2's opening set are essentially his calling card.

Old Post 01-06-13 08:22 #
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Phobus
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@kmxexii: I thought that might be the case, after what Capellan said!

MAP06: The Powerstation: I had a much easier time of this than GRB, possibly due to mouselook, perhaps a difference in approach, or maybe my continuous play has really weighted the balance in my favour. I thought this map had tons of ammo and, due to the secrets, loads of health and armour too. So although there were some nasty pop-up hell knights, lots of chaingunners and a few other dangerous situations for the player, it is compensated for. All 6 secrets seemed pretty easy to find too, which helped... Although the finding the backpack secret for me was purely a lucky guess.

Progression when you're after the blue key strikes me as a bit weird, because I strafe-ran over the gap and got the blue key, only to then fight through a large, seemingly-optional area to discover that the exit was here, but blocked off, so I had to go back and do the key sequence. This is made even more confusing by me somehow missing the switch (that you run up some stairs towards) that raises the little platform that I well and truly didn't need at this point, making me think I'd done things the intended way until I took a peek in the editor, just to see if my theory about all of that stuff being optional was true. Turns out it isn't, as I think if I had gone straight to the blue key door after claiming the key, I'd have fought my way through to teleport into a closet that could only be opened from outside... but as the teleporter that you arrive in does dump you back out near where you want to be (although the "ambush" of all of these unseen monsters would probably take a bit of dealing with) I suppose it could be a viable speed running route, what with the switches to open the exit up all being right near the exit room if you've already done the other 3 keys.

Would have missed my customary 100% kills and secrets though, plus some unintuitive crate/lift progression. I enjoyed myself, but this map does seem flawed to me.

Old Post 01-06-13 11:08 #
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cannonball
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Map06 - The Powerstation
Very mixed map, some good, some bad. Seems like an early mapping project for the author involved here. The automap was very handy here and got me 5/6 secrets. The map isn't too difficult, the darkness of the yellow key room makes that part tricky but everywhere else is fine. I utilised a partial invisibility well here as it helps with the many hitscan ambush after releasing the blue key.

Old Post 01-06-13 11:46 #
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General Rainbow Bacon
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@Phobus: I actually didn't have that much trouble with map 06. I know I play very cautiously, if you've watched the demo you know that.

The next map was where I started realizing the authors want you dead. I think I'm gonna try to PS every map after 12 mostly because I die and have to anyway in most of them.

Old Post 01-06-13 15:12 #
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mouldy
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06 - The Powerstation by Eric Sargent and Mark Klem

I quite liked this map in an old school kind of way. Some of the traps were foreseeable, the fights were never threatening enough to make me fear death, and the gap to the blue key platform could be jumped if you wanted to bypass a 3rd of the map... but I still enjoyed exploring the unpredictable layout and finding all the secrets, and there were some surprises here and there. The music added to the mysterious atmosphere as well.

About that blue key jump, was strafe-running not a widely known thing back when this wad was made? I actually only discovered it a couple of years ago when I was watching a demo of a map I was stuck on that required strafe running to cross a gap.

Old Post 01-06-13 16:04 #
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Phobus
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General Rainbow Bacon said:
@Phobus: I actually didn't have that much trouble with map 06. I know I play very cautiously, if you've watched the demo you know that.

I haven't - my comment was based purely on what you've said in this thread (about shit getting real and you dying)

Old Post 01-06-13 17:59 #
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esselfortium
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I played through a bunch of this last night. It was the first real attempt I had made at playing MM since I was a kid, at which point I had been terrible at Doom and never made it past the first map.

I got up to MAP06 last night before I finally went to bed. My feelings on what I've played so far are pretty mixed.

MAP01: This was really underwhelming. The most interesting part of my playthrough was restarting the map a bunch of times to come up with a way to get past the first room without taking massive damage. The gameplay felt very grindy, with lots of shotgun use against packs of hitscanners, and the need to snipe around corners to avoid getting shotgunned in the back.

MAP02: Thematically this brought in some new elements that probably could've been incorporated into MAP01, but gameplaywise it was essentially like MAP01. I was really wishing for a chaingun by this point.

MAP03: This one opened up with more shotgun grinding against hitscanners and demons (I think -- the first few maps really blended together for me), until Memento Mori finally took pity on me and handed me a chaingun. The ammo balance seemed to expect me to still be mostly using the shotgun, though. The lowering staircase was cool. The red key door was rather elusive.

MAP04: More shotgun grinding, but this time against piles of hell knights and barons, which is decidedly not an improvement. A lot of areas seemed to be consciously set up such that I had to fight a set of hell knights by just pecking away at them with the shotgun around awkward corners in corridors narrow enough that only one of them could be fought at a time. I, too, got caught by the red key coop puzzle for a while, and the key being accessed via a secret was a bit irritating. I refused to leave the map without getting the SSG, to put an end to the single-shotgun grinding once and for all, and was very relieved when I finally managed to get it.

MAP05: This map was actually really fun. The maneuverability atop the ledges is pretty cramped, but fortunately not so much that it conflicted with the player's agility and ability to dodge from multiple directions, because this map really depended on both those things :) Flaharty's Romero influence is evident not only in his texture combinations and heavy use of damaging floor, but also in the overall feel of maneuvering through the map. One odd thing was some shotgunners and chaingunners set up to blast the player through narrow wall openings in the early areas; I just opted to run past them rather than try to pick away at them through the openings.

MAP06: I did the same thing as Phobus with the blue key area. Oopsie. A few parts of the map were pretty frustrating for me, like the start of the cratemaze and the room leading into it, because I ended up soaking up a lot of hitscan damage and having to play hide-and-seek with hitscanners while I had low health. I wish something more interesting than a hub-spoke layout had been done here, though the level itself was a lot more fun than MAP01 through MAP04 at least, even if it didn't live up to MAP05. I realize that a lot of this probably came down to me having an SSG now when I didn't in the early maps, but nonetheless I had a decent time of this when I wasn't getting shotgunned in the back and wandering around hitscan mazes with <10% health.

As an aside, I've noticed that a lot of 90s maps make frequent use of narrow corridors. That's not always a bad thing, though in MAP04 it made the hell knight battles really, really suck.

Old Post 01-06-13 18:49 #
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Magnusblitz
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UV, continuous play, constant saving/reloading

MAP01 - THE TELEPORTER

Wow, takes you back. The level design is definitely old-school, with the texturing feeling like an id level. Monster placement can be charitably described as "clumpy". The chaingunners can be vicious, as they're somewhat protected behind the bars from a player using the shotgun. A little buggy - I pushed the button to close the teleporter, a shotgunner teleported in when it was 3/4ths of the way down and it got stuck until I killed him. Also, the demons in the last room can't get through the door so it's just an ammo dump. And why bother having a secret that's a sector you have to walk through?

MAP02 - THE BRIDGE

Weird design choices right from the get-go, such as the teleporter-lift, the door that opens downwards instead of upwards, or a door that just opens into a dead-end room with a demon and some shells. The eponymous bridges look nice, but having them lead to what can be called closets is underwhelming. Not a bad map, but feels like it was the product of experimentation rather than a finished map.

MAP03 - INTERLOCK

Not much to say about this map. Pretty quick to blast through, lots of zombies and imps. More of that 1996 design going on, as the map feels sparse - it's not bad, but it lacks any sort of detail or even things like corpses or random doodads to spruce it up. Feels a lot like the outside part of TNT01.

MAP04 - THE STAND

Holy hell this was annoying. The first part has the Switch Hunt from Hell (and even a part that's obviously co-op only but seems like it's required), and the second part has a bunch of unintuitive designs involving teleporters, switches and opening walls. The blue key takes quite a few jumps to get and seems inaccessible at first. The door locking you in with small room with a Baron at the end was pretty unfair too. The item balance isn't great either - you get a SSG and tons of shells, but then the map has a bunch of Hell Knights on far-away platforms. First map I've actively disliked so far.

Old Post 01-07-13 01:49 #
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Capellan
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Magnusblitz said:
why bother having a secret that's a sector you have to walk through?



Because there aren't any actual secrets, and you want the secret count to show 100% on level exit.

Me, I would have added an actual secret :)

Old Post 01-07-13 02:15 #
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Capellan
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Map04

I remember finding this to be a very frustrating map back in '96, and really struggling to finish it. This time, I didn't find it so troubling. It's the first map where the co-op elements have been really obvious even in SP (a quick glance in an editor shows that the other maps have significant extra monsters in co-op, but that's invisible to the solo player).

From continuous start, and sporting a chaingun with a decent amount of ammo, the opening is actually pretty easy. in fact, most of the level's difficulty comes from those occasions where you get jumped in close quarters by HKs. A little planning makes them easy enough to circumvent though.

Lots of secrets on this one; at times it felt like almost every slightly different wall was a door or a lowering floor :)

Old Post 01-07-13 07:56 #
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cannonball
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Map07 - Not That Simple
Does what it says on the tin. Not very fun, just tedious at times. At least some other monsters come into play a bit here. The maze to get the red key is the worst part. The gameplay just feels slow again, still top weapon is the ssg.

Old Post 01-07-13 08:24 #
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Phobus
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MAP07: Not So Simple: I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, you get some very unintuitive secrets, a maze puzzle and a lot of corridor action; Looking at it the other way, this is 90s puzzling creativity in full flow and I found myself strangely mesmerised as I pressed and poked at various map features trying to work out what was what. I managed to get all 7 secrets in the end, which endowed me with a plasma rifle (which I have 520 cells for from collecting them in previous maps) and a rocket launcher (with only 15 rockets, also built up slowly). I almost want to give something like this myself a go at some point, but with gun play more to my taste and less 64 unit wide corridors.

Old Post 01-07-13 19:38 #
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Magnusblitz
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Capellan said:


Because there aren't any actual secrets, and you want the secret count to show 100% on level exit.

Me, I would have added an actual secret :)



Thanks, I forgot that lots of people like to do 100% runs and would want that to show up. Makes sense (and probably made more sense back in 1996 when Zdoom didn't exist and said YOU FOUND A SECRET!)

MAP05 - HELL'S KITCHEN

Fun little map, surprisingly challenging despite some powerful items (Megasphere, Invuln sphere in a secret). I thought the spot by the megasphere/red key was a bit poorly designed by trapping the red key in the column unseen; the player's sight is naturally drawn towards the trap after hitting the switch, and then the rad suit pushes the player to explore the sludge. Making the red key visible would go a long way towards having the player say "I want that red key, how do I get it?" Finding the exit requires a bit of non-logic in jumping into an acid pit without a radsuit, too.

There's a lot of cells (at least 300) on this level as well, which seems a bit weird given there's no plasmagun or BFG I could find (nor on previous levels). Still, played continuously, it provides a nice thing for later.

MAP06 - THE POWERSTATION

Man, some low ceilings here. Amused by the starting traps... this one has nothing, these two have a few shotgunners, THIS ONE HAS FIVE CACODEMONS. As others have noted, you can bypass a large part of the level by straferunning to grab the blue key. Fights aren't tough, lots of zombies and cacos with the odd hell knight thrown in; the cacos all appear in areas they can't really fly in, so they're easy. And there's TONS of shotgun ammo... having six 20-shell boxes in the last area was kinda strange given the low monsters there.

Old Post 01-07-13 22:51 #
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mouldy
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07 - Not That Simple by Jens Nielsen

This is one of those maps that annoys the piss out of you on the first play through. After dying multiple times trying to survive the pistol start, flayed alive by hitscanners, then facing a baron of hell with only your puny shotgun and not much ammo or health, finally getting a chaingun and immediately dealing with 2 revenants... and then it transpires that there was a secret door right back at the start with a SSG, ammo, armour, health, chainsaw... Yeah cheers for that. There follows a multitude of switches to hunt, an archvile in a small room with no cover, and a tiresome bit of back and forth in a mini minataur maze. By this point you are tooled up enough to finally enjoy a little bit of mindless killing, and there is indeed some mindless killing to be had, but I couldn't help still feeling a bit cheated by that start - knowing that it was bastard hard the first time and yet will be piss easy on every subsequent play.

Old Post 01-07-13 23:30 #
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Processingcontrol
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Don't know what's up with you guys.
Not That Simple is like... ...one of the best doom maps ever. :)

Jens Nielsen is god.

Old Post 01-08-13 01:59 #
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Capellan
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Map05

Orin Flaharty didn't produce a lot of Doom levels, as far as I know, and pretty much all of the levels he did produce look a lot like this one: he was pretty well known as "The guy who does Circle of Death levels".

This is mostly a well put-together level, but the "you must make a blind jump into nukage" part of the design is a big no-no. There are some hints that this is the way to go - the dropping of the pillars, plus the double caco release when you do - but still, it's very unintuitive.

Old Post 01-08-13 08:45 #
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