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Alfonzo
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At some point during a ritualistic bashing of the Icon yesteryear, I came upon the realisation that Icons of Sin can sometimes make the greatest impression when featured outside their native map30. Requiem's map23, Hadephobia's map20, Jenesis's map28 and Hell Revealed's map32 are all examples of maps that house a not-so-final "final boss" encounter... but I'm still looking for further examples to explore their usage, possibly with the intention of implementing one at some point in the future.

What maps do you know of that house an IoS, are part of a mapset, and are not the final maps of that mapset? In addition, what is your opinion on the use of Icons in this way?

Old Post 01-19-13 16:06 #
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Memfis
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The view of multiple monsters stuck in each other (since they can't telefrag outside of map30) sure is great.
http://i56.tinypic.com/b4akd5.png

Old Post 01-19-13 16:08 #
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Alfonzo
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Heh, yeah. I guess that is a big deterrent for designers these days. It's terribly ugly to looks at (a kind of perpetually mutating demon on a treadmill) although one could probably avoid this sort of problem with competent map design, surely?

Old Post 01-19-13 16:17 #
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Memfis
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Probably the safest way is to put spawner's targets on Boom scrollers that can't be reached. The monsters will move away immediately after spawning and the player will not be able to block that spot. But that's not very stylish unless you're making a demonic machine or something like that.

Old Post 01-19-13 16:44 #
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Gez
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st.alfonzo said:
Heh, yeah. I guess that is a big deterrent for designers these days. It's terribly ugly to looks at (a kind of perpetually mutating demon on a treadmill) although one could probably avoid this sort of problem with competent map design, surely?


You could use MAPINFO to let monsters telefrag regardless of map slot. Of course, if you do that, you can also have the IOS in MAP30 and then the final map comes later (maybe MAP40, maybe even MAP02 because you can reorder stuff how you want).

Another alternative is to use Boom features. Place a pusher or a carrying sector to move the freshly-spawned demons away from the spawning spot.

Old Post 01-19-13 16:50 #
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PRIMEVAL
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I'm planning on doing spawners in two of my WADs I'm working on. Both are for G/ZDoom so they shouldn't be stuck together permanently, once activated they can separate.

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Old Post 01-19-13 18:19 #
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printz
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Memfis said:
But that's not very stylish unless you're making a demonic machine or something like that.
Actually, you can put the spawn spots on scrollers in buffer sectors outside the playable area, and make them lead into teleporters. Sure they can still jam, but far less likely and won't be visible, so at this point it will be more of a challenge/feature/trick than broken design. In a way it will look even better, because monsters will just pop in sight.

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Old Post 01-19-13 19:34 #
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scifista42
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What do you think about this idea: A non-final map which features a coop-only Icon of Sin (I mean, you won't even encounter him in single player).

Old Post 01-19-13 20:27 #
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Memfis
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printz: but they also can jam when teleporting to the main area

Old Post 01-19-13 20:33 #
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printz
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Memfis said:
printz: but they also can jam when teleporting to the main area
I don't think so… Normal Doom behaviour is to avoid green teleportation totally, not to jam.

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Old Post 01-19-13 21:03 #
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Memfis
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Oh, you're right of course. Forgot about that. :)

Old Post 01-19-13 21:07 #
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Katamori
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I always preferred final fights without that messy and annoying "shootin' in da brain while munstaz R spawwin arund" style.

Actually, the spawner is OK, but I hate those exact shootings.

And yes, IOS textures rocks and very underused. Just take a look at some of Eternal's maps, how he used them! On this map, he uses only COMPTALL and ZZZFACE6 as wall textures.



yes, this is self-advertisement, but it has reason now, because this is the only video about this WAD as I know =)

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Old Post 01-20-13 01:03 #
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Pure Hellspawn
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When I played Ostoyae Anomaly, telefragging was enabled. In GZDoom by default, the icon's cubes will telefrag, but in map 30 monsters can also step in teleporters to telefrag you as well (they can't do that outside of map30). Of course, this can be changed as Gez said.

@Katamori: I agree. My gampeplay style completely changes for maps like Shaitan's Luck and Ostoyae Anomaly. When I play these maps, I'm a lot more aggressive, a lot more alert, and a lot more focused than I usually am because it's no longer just about killing the monsters. It's about getting yourself through the map as fast as possible as well as killing the monsters.

Old Post 01-20-13 14:42 #
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