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Tango
Senior Member


Posts: 1687
Registered: 04-06


for a long time i've had my own vision of my "ideal" doom project and as i've gotten older and spent more time with doom and other games, my vision has of course evolved. it's gotten to the point that i cannot think of exactly how to implement all these different elements, not in the sense of "how do i code these in acs" but more like "how the hell do i put all these together and make it work but still be doom." da list:

[] invasion gameplay
a big part of doom is obviously the exploration, and invasion style gameplay removes that element almost completely, but i like invasion enough for exploration to be a low priority. the closest thing to the invasion i envision in doom that's been done before is skulltag's invasion, which is a great starting point, but i'd like to refine it. the tools are there for the most part, but i've yet to see an invasion map with all the elements i'd really like to have. if you aren't familiar with skulltag invasion, the general model is: start a wave with limited resources, lower level monsters, finish wave. next wave, new area opens, bit better firepower, stronger monsters. repeat


[] attack/defense modifiers
skulltag/doom has these, in the form of runes and powerups. i take issue with the way it is now though but it's hard to explain why... it's like. take a standard skulltag invasion map. the runes are there, the powerups are there, you know if and when they're there, and some are clearly better than others, as evidenced by the rune availability progression usually. there's no variability here though... it's so simple. slog through a few waves and wait for spread to appear (because it is so much better than all the other offensive runes and none of the defensive runes are worth it in comparison usually, save for one or two in special cases). the runes and powerups hardly provide any replay value; you could use different combos of runes for a different experience, but why do that when there is unarguably a "best" way to do it?

i am also not particularly attached to the standard skulltag runes themselves necessarily. i just want a way for runes to be... variable, somehow. i want a system of powering up your character that is strategic, can be done differently/has no clear "best" option, and isn't random. i want it to somehow be skillful, and perhaps even technical. (as a side note i play a lot of smash bros melee and like most fighting games you need a lot of technical execution skill to compete in that game at high levels, what with all the sorts of cancels that you can do. perhaps not to that extent but i'd like to find some way to make doom slightly more technical... maybe this next element can do that for me). one idea i did have for this would be to possibly make the max health a lot lower, leaving less room for error. doing that and leaving monsters as powerful as they are would make it less necessary to just stuff large areas with monsters, and would also make defense more of a priority, subsequently making defensive runes and powerups more useful.


[] freedom of movement/climbing?
as we all know, doom and jumping in large quantities hardly blend well. quake's physics work slightly differently and allow for more player control so it works somewhat better in that game, but i'm not looking to incorporate jumping and vertical movement in such a trivial way as "navigate the instadeath lava pit via 2px wide wooden poles."

i've always been a fan of the jumping and climbing elements in games like the newschool Ninja Gaiden games (but not 3 because that game sux dix), but even there i don't feel like they really used those mechanics to full potential. i want my character to be able to run and jump off walls, climb ledges, etc, but in a more meaningful/creative way than what you might see in Ninja Gaiden. an "okay" way to incorporate this into games is to have the occasional pit that requires you find an appropriate spot to single/double/triple wallrun across for wow effect, but that feels so trivial. something like this puts a lot of my desired elements into doom (and then some), so the tools are there. my struggle, though, is thinking of a way to use them to their full potential (or at least closer to it than has been done before), especially alongside all of my other desired elements.

(wall)jumping and climbing means that whatever set of maps i create for this would have to be much more vertically friendly that doom traditionally is, but it's not as simple as making maps more vertical. doom's monsters are almost all made for horizontal movement, so when i envision a player jumping and climbing through a 5 story building while each monster is limited to whatever plane it spawned on, i see a problem. but i don't know how to fix it.


[] competitive factor, replay value, some way to "improve"?

as i said i play melee and the wonderful thing about fighting games is that they're inherently replayable because the outcome of each game is left solely up to the human players, and the human mind is about as variable as it gets. you can play the same matchup in street fighter over and over and it'll be different every time. games like this also have seemingly no skill ceiling; if you keep improving your execution and become able to adapt quickly, two players can keep improving from each other indefinitely, in theory. but in a game like doom, and in a game mode like what i'm proposing where you face stupid monsters, i struggle thinking of a way to incorporate such an element. i want the player to be able to always improve somehow, to always have something to "beat." the cheap n easy way to do this i suppose would be a scoring system; you can keep replaying the map while trying to beat your score, be it in points or in time even. that feels too cheap though. not exciting enough.

even in a cooperative mode, it's fun to have competition of some sort. so if doom monsters will never adapt and change, perhaps i could utilize multiplayer to add that element of competition. but how do i get past something so simple as trying to get more kills than your partner or get a higher score? is there some way to make it like a hybrid of deathmatch and coop? never tried deathmatch with monsters, so i dunno how this sort of thing would work. but there has to be a way...



in short, i've got these ideas for gameplay elements and things i want to incorporate, but i can't quite envision how to do it or finalize it. perhaps i'm trying too hard and some of these things will just never blend well with doom's inherent style of play. i'm sure a lot of players feel that doom already has these things to an appropriate extent, and obviously this sort of mod wouldn't appeal to everyone. BUT if anyone does have any ideas about how to make all these things mesh, i'm all ears

Last edited by Tango on 01-21-13 at 19:34

Old Post 01-21-13 04:46 #
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Orangestar
Green Marine


Posts: 46
Registered: 12-12


One idea for replayability would be a branching path sort of thing. Like, two ways to complete a map, each one leading to a different map, with two ways to complete THAT map... etc etc leading to multiple endings and playstyles. You could even have map paths intertwine. Like uh...

http://i.imgur.com/2zybKz9.png

Old Post 01-21-13 05:52 #
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