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LittleTemple
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I canít speak for everyone of course but, at my age, I find it both interesting and amazing when a young person asks about an old computer game like DOOM.

This story is in fact so interesting, Iím having trouble picking a good place to start, so, Iíll start at the beginning!

Last summer a close friend of ours took a quick trip to France in order to bring a distant relative to the states. Our friend didnít give too much info (she never does, FYI) and so we were naturally curious when our friend came back a few weeks later (I guess thatís what some people call a quick trip?).

As it was, the others and myself were sitting around two computers using DOOM Builder before our friend arrived with Gabrielle. Yeah I know, she sounds like the angelic blonde every father wants as a daughter but knows heíll go through hell by the time sheís fifteenÖ Well, she is rather angelic and blonde but that isnít quite the point. The point is, we met her, our friend yacked and yacked about her trip and Gabrielle seemed bored with the conversation (her English is rather poor) so she took a gander over to the computers and asked ďWhat we were drawingĒ.

You might be wondering why this is in the mods and wads forum by now, but, just wait for it.
The drawing she referred to was the incomplete (and admittedly terrible) map design sitting in DOOM builder we had been fighting with all day.

To make a long story somewhat short, we found out she likes to draw and is quite good at it. Kamila ended up giving her a second boxed copy of the 2004 DOOM Collectors edition (the doom 3 preview one) and a week or so later we helped her get set up and play around with it on her own very old laptop.
We ended up explaining as best we could the whole doom builder thing again to her and she said she had found a guide by a doctor online on how to use it. (She meant DR. Sleep, I believe) so we ended up setting up DOOM builder on her laptop.

Fast forward to this evening around 5PM, she came over with our friend and had a thumb drive in her hand and said she wanted to show us something. So after dinner, Kamila copied over a wadfile called demon laden (spelt wrong of course).

All I can really say is, Iím actually stunned. I mean, at 11, I donít think I couldíve done what she had done in a matter of months with all that learning involved. Shoot, I donít think I could do that now =P

Anywho, itís only two levels so far for DOOM II. Theyíre smallish like what you might find in the Sythe series. We just wanted to share it and see what the DOOM community thinks!

Itís mapped completely in regular DOOM2 format so the best play experience will probably come from using chocolate doom. We helped her write up a small text file for it.

Here is the link for the download: http://files.drdteam.org/index.php/.../demonladen.zip

Thereís a lot I could say but Iíve typed about 600 words already here =P

I think she avoided making a mistake unlike myself and the rest of our group by starting mapping in vanilla compatible mode first and learning how it all works instead of starting off in ZDoom or Legacy.

Anyway, feel free to post feedback and whatnot. I realize it might not be much compared to folks around here who have been mapping for 15+ years but, for an 11 year old and 6 months of tinkering with something completely new to her, it isnít half bad in my opinion =)

Little Temple Group

Last edited by LittleTemple on 01-29-13 at 23:48

Old Post 01-25-13 07:02 #
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Obsidian
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INB4PURIST. Some maps by Purist's 6 year old son. Warms your heart, doesn't it? :) Nice maps by the way.

Old Post 01-25-13 07:14 #
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LittleTemple
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Wow, cool! Thanks for sharing those! I guess it isn't so uncommon after all!

It does, doesn't it? If only I am man enough to admit her maps are better than mine =/ haha

I'll give that one you linked a play through!

EDIT:

The wad you linked was actually quite good considering it was designed by a 6 year old! It instantly reminded me of a boxed collection of random wads my father had on 3.5ich floppies from the early/mid 90s. TBH these levels were better than quite a few of those from what I can remember.

I whimped out and played on ITYTD because well, I suck. I kept dying in the first room of MAP01. MAP05 crashes with a bad spawnthing though, I'll try to get it up and running on ZDoom or something.

Thanks for the link!

EDIT#2

Gabrielle told us she forgot to flag difficulties on the monsters in MAP02 so in the current file, playing on different difficulty settings wont change the number of baddies in MAP02 =P Oops!

She says she'll bring by an updated version when she finishes a few more maps. Glad to know she's going to keep at it!

Last edited by LittleTemple on 01-25-13 at 08:30

Old Post 01-25-13 07:26 #
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Memfis
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Very nice maps with many interesting and creative ideas. Here is a demo of my playthrough.

Does she know about straferunning? Because I found a jump that allows you to skip most of map02, you can see me doing it at the end of the demo.

Old Post 01-25-13 11:44 #
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marysson
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My 11-year old just started mapping. Not as young as purists, but I still find it an awesome bonding experience. :P

Old Post 01-25-13 12:21 #
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Vader
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I have to admit those maps are pretty impressive considering the authors age!
Map01 still looks like an experiment of some sort, but map02 has everything a good map needs IMO!
It has a nice non-linear layout, good use of heigth variation and it doesn't look bad either... gameplay is also surprisingly interesting and even challenging :)

Looking forward to see more!

Old Post 01-25-13 12:58 #
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40oz
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That's a beautiful story LittleTemple, it really brings to light feelings I have for Doom editing. It's sort of an underground thing, but I think people who naturally like to draw shapes ought to give it a try and see what they come up with. Level design is complex to a degree, but starting with vanilla and neglecting the screenshots of well known mappers' projects (so as to not be intimidated by them) is the way to go. I haven't tried the maps yet but I'll save them to my usb drive and give them a try later. I'm very curious to see what she came up with and tell her we're all very excited for her to make more maps!

Old Post 01-25-13 13:41 #
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Ribbiks
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Vader said:
It has a nice non-linear layout, good use of heigth variation and it doesn't look bad either... gameplay is also surprisingly interesting and even challenging :)


pretty much this ^^. I'm always a fan of exploratory levels where you're free to wander around, look at scenery and shoot stuff. oh yeah, here's an fda.

Old Post 01-25-13 13:46 #
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cannonball
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These are pretty good, pretty clean, reasonably good layouts. Easy gameplay, just a fun 10 minute romp around some nice base levels. Good job

Old Post 01-25-13 13:58 #
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Enzo03
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Aww :)

These are awesome.

Old Post 01-25-13 16:22 #
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BaronOfStuff
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cannonball said:
These are pretty good, pretty clean, reasonably good layouts. Easy gameplay, just a fun 10 minute romp around some nice base levels. Good job


This. The secrets on the first map are somewhat too obscure to find without resorting to mindless wall-humping though, especially the last one (or two, seeing as they're related).

Old Post 01-25-13 16:48 #
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Cacowad
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good choise of textures, good understanding of doom mechanics, optional parts, strong id feeling... all hail the new doom godness! seriously, if she continue this way, she will became really good.

Old Post 01-25-13 18:27 #
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grouchbag
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Would you please give Gabrielle my compliments? She has earned herself a 5 star rating in my book! The maps were well done and show a lot of promise. Keep on Dooming,young lady!

Old Post 01-25-13 22:22 #
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LittleTemple
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Many thanks for all the replies! I'm sure she'll be delighted!

I agree about the secrets in MAP01 and though we never said anything to her, she must have thought so too because the secrets are different in MAP02.

Those demos were interesting! I don't know if she knew about wall running or not when she made that lift or if she knows about it but, that's an interesting way for a speed run, haha! I have a feeling she'll leave it alone for the sake of that DOOMish design.

I am going to ask her how she picked up the levels so quick. I'm assuming she used DOOM builder to browse ID's maps so she sorta could get an idea of what's acceptable and what isn't.

Glad everyone enjoyed! I'll tell her the good news =)



Little Temple Group

Old Post 01-25-13 22:37 #
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hex11
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Those MAP01 secrets aren't too difficult to find, I got them on my first play without even trying hard (no random wall humping). It's just a matter of spotting the patterns that stand out: a column that's a bit different from the others nearby, an exit room that's assymetrical in textures... This kind of stuff is something I look for subconsciously while playing DOOM maps, and this level didn't dissapoint me in the secrets department. I think if other players can't find them, they just haven't developped that "sixth sense" yet, and need to play more maps. Quite simply if you made these any more obvious, they wouldn't be "secrets" anymore. ;-) Don't forget also, some secrets in the IWADs are quite obscure and can remain hidden to the player for months or years (unless he uses the map cheat or goes reading those lame walkthrough documents...) Expecting to find them all on the first run is unreasonable - effectively the opposite extreme of the situation where all secrets have zero clues and can only be found by humping every single surface.


Anyway, these maps remind me of the classic 90's WADs, when there wasn't so much focus on minute details, but instead just simple, uncluttered design. I hope she makes more in this style!

Old Post 01-26-13 01:56 #
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LittleTemple
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Funny you should mention the secrets in map 01 because we did ask her about them after our last post and she said "not so secret i leave clues" so, yeah =P You just know where to look!

She's working on something right now I think, something me and kamila put her up to just to see how it turns out and we'd love to hear what DW thinks when she's done!


I also agree about her design. It seems to me that she focuses less on eyecandy and more on the overall design of the level. Something me and Kamila both could learn from.

Old Post 01-26-13 03:00 #
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Arjak
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An eleven-year-old girl from France did these!? I couldn't even wrap my head around how Doom maps worked at that age! I've played through the two maps, and here's my thoughts:

-She already has all the basics of theme, design, and balance down.

-Good use of interconnecting areas and non-linearity.

-Well-designed and balanced fights.

This is one talented kid, perhaps even a prodigy. She has the ability to become a great mapper, if she chooses. Please give her my congratulations on her excellent work!

There needs to be a "Best Newcomer" or something in the Cacoawards. I'd vote for Gabrielle, here! :)

Old Post 01-26-13 03:15 #
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Enzo03
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Since 2011, Honoring a Newcomer spotlights promising new blood.
from http://doomwiki.org/wiki/Cacowards

Old Post 01-26-13 06:07 #
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LittleTemple
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Another update DOOM World!

She fixed the monsters not being flagged for difficulty in MAP02 and added map03.

We updated the text file again but in case people don't read those, she has names for the three maps so far.

MAP01 - The Entrance
MAP02 - UAC Aqua Station
MAP03 - Toxic Zone

When she told us yesterday she started working on the third map she didn't say much about it. but about an hour ago when she came over with it finished, she said what mainly inspired it was a rather nightmarish dream she had the night before last about being chased through dangerous corridors by little evil looking monsters of some sort and there was a lot of metal around and the sky was smokey. So map 3 is a bit of blood pumping one.

Without spoiling too much. here's the link!

http://files.drdteam.org/index.php/.../demonladen.zip

Last edited by LittleTemple on 01-29-13 at 23:48

Old Post 01-27-13 00:44 #
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Enzo03
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Looked in the readme:

May Not Run With... : Call Of Duty Modern Warfare 200
I lol'd.

Old Post 01-27-13 00:49 #
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LittleTemple
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Haha, so did we! She actually put that in there, we just fixed the spelling. Glad we aren't the only ones to have lol'd! =P

Old Post 01-27-13 00:54 #
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Memfis
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Another fine map. I felt like these chaingunners were kinda pointless since they couldn't hit me from that place, the rest was nice. demo

Old Post 01-27-13 01:17 #
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LittleTemple
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Memfis said:
Another fine map. I felt like these chaingunners were kinda pointless since they couldn't hit me from that place, the rest was nice. demo


I don't wanna spoil it but, they are there in case you get on top of that balcony before getting the blue keycard =)

buggers killed me **

Old Post 01-27-13 01:20 #
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Enzo03
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Another way the secrets aren't so secret... you can see them on automap. :<

Old Post 01-27-13 01:32 #
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LittleTemple
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Yeah she actually asked us just a bit ago about how to fix that and I "think" it's the "hidden" tag but I'm not sure.

I guess MAP03 didn't originally have secrets and she just added secret sectors because. She showed us the sketches in her notebook and I don't remember seeing anything marked secret like her other maps so it's just a guess xP

Old Post 01-27-13 01:37 #
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Godsdoomer
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Heh, its great to see young'ins enjoy something so old. But it's even cooler to have them create it. She's definitely got A LOT of potential, and I could see her being a top notch mapper one day if she chooses to be.

Old Post 01-27-13 02:02 #
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LittleTemple
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Thanks again for the replies!

She finished MAP04 around 8PM and brought it over before going to bed, me and Kamila pretty much DM'd for hours on it.

She also fixed the tags on secret sectors, added a different secret to MAP03 and fixed miss aligned textures.

MAP04 has some tricky secrets I think. I have only found one and I REFUSE to look at the map in an editor to find them xP

MAP04 is called "Sludge Factory" in the readme text.

Here is the download link =)

http://files.drdteam.org/index.php/.../demonladen.zip

enjoy!

EDIT: We aren't sure if the title and intermission pic are permanent or not but, we got them working at least!

Last edited by LittleTemple on 01-29-13 at 23:49

Old Post 01-28-13 09:56 #
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schwerpunk
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LittleTemple said:
Yeah she actually asked us just a bit ago about how to fix that and I "think" it's the "hidden" tag but I'm not sure.

I guess MAP03 didn't originally have secrets and she just added secret sectors because. She showed us the sketches in her notebook and I don't remember seeing anything marked secret like her other maps so it's just a guess xP

Marking secret, usable walls with the "secret" flag is definitely the best way to hide secret panels, but overall the hiding of secret rooms is a real pain in every map format I've ever used.

The easy way is to just mark all of the linedefs in the secret area as 'hidden,' but otherwise it's pretty tricky, as the automap likes to draw things the player can't see (even when sector heights around it are 0). Makes me really wish we had a "Block_Automap_Sight" linedef flag in Doom Builder. :P

[Link to a post where I complain about this minor problem.]

Old Post 01-28-13 13:16 #
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Vader
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Hmm, I'm starting to get skeptical...
No offense, but after playing through map03 and 04, I just think they are too good to be made by a 11 year old!
Those maps are not brilliant, but still pretty damn good in comparison to Doom2 or even some of the old classics like Scythe.

Well, either this girl is a mapping genius and should seek an appropiate career ASAP or something is wrong here :P

It may be just my mind going wild, but somehow I smell an admittedly clever promotion trick to get more people into looking at a newcomers wad...

Old Post 01-28-13 22:08 #
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Memfis
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That might be true Vader. The way LittleTemple speaks for her is sometimes weird I think. Also if you compare "Demon Laden.wad" to "Dimensions.wad", which was also posted by him, you might notice some similar ideas, designs and mapping techniques. For example, both map02 from Dimensions and map02 from Demon Laden feature buildings made with double sided linedefs only (very rare method). Both wads have similar catwalks, tunnels, ceiling lights, windows and imperfectly aligned walls with LITE# textures.

Old Post 01-28-13 22:56 #
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