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LittleTemple
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If only it were true =P

The similarities you might notice (especially with the windows) is because kamila (the lead designer for Dimensions) actually did have to show Gabrielle how to do windows (mainly, upper lower unpegged) properly.

As for the lights and the catwalks, I dunno haha. I'll have to take a closer look at those in an editor or something to see what you mean.

As for the double sided lindefefs, what's that mean? Another noob question I know but, I'm not sure what that is in design terms. is it something that has to purposely be done? Or is it something that happens?

I'd have to ask Kamila, actually, as my first contributed map to dimensions is still in the making.

Actually, now that you mention it, this still "could" be somewhat of a promotion trick =P To get more people interested in Dimensions. I hadn't thought about it like that but hey, promotion is good!


Anyhow, since their are similarities, and most of you have played both Dimensions and Demon Laden, which ones do you like better? Just curious =P


Little Temple Group

Old Post 01-29-13 00:18 #
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LittleTemple
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Just for kicks, we opened map 02 of both Dimensions.wad and Demon Laden.wad and exported them as pictures =P

We also looked through all the maps on both so far and as far as design similarities, eh, maybe =P Kamila says she takes it as a compliment (she wants Gabrielle to do some maps for Dimensions)

I asked her about the double sided linedefs and she says she needs to take a closer look but she told me she thinks DOOM Builder automatically makes them double-sided

Just curious, is that a bad thing? We are having problems with Dimensions MAP22 and it might have to do with that... or not, we aren't sure haha

As for catwalks and lights, i dunno. How different can a catwalk or a light be? Out of curiousity though, are the catwalks in dimensions you are refering to in MAP03, Catacombs, or MAP02, castle of darkness? I didn't do either of those maps, they were done by Kamila and Valentine I believe so I don't really know the design of it as well as they.

This conversation has a lot of potential to be VERY interesting though! =P

Anyway, here's the pics of the two maps, one from dimensions and one from demon laden. Maybe picking similarities is a skill I have yet to aquire but, I honestly don't see too many. I mean, besides the obvious fact that they're designed around the limitations of idtech xP


Anywho, tell me what ya think! (pictures are kinda low rez btw)


Dimensions MAP02 - The Teleportation Complex - Authors: Kamila & Elizavetta Zielinski
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-image...02thetelep.png/

Demon Laden MAP02 - UAC Aqua Station - Authors: Gabrielle Bélanger
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-image...02uacaquas.png/

Old Post 01-29-13 01:40 #
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Enzo03
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For what it's worth, I'm new to Doom Mapping and I tend to have structures with double-sided linedefs too..

The only reasons I haven't been churning out maps is because I found the advanced editing tricks page on this site and everything else stopped in my attempts to replicate the Room Over Room effect in CROSS.WAD. But along the way I'm doing the other stuff such as window over window (or hallway in this case) and fake bridge.

Old Post 01-29-13 18:51 #
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LittleTemple
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Updated the link again http://files.drdteam.org/index.php/.../demonladen.zip

She emailed us a new version with added map05 and custom intermission level names. she did them herself (we were going to help her) and we might still have to because they look kinda odd to be honest.

map05 is smaller than the rest. pretty fast paced, good for adrenaline and kamila and I played 2 player DM on it before uploading the file. Works well for that too =)

As for the double sided lindef thing, we tested it and DOOM Build adds them as double sided right off the bat, we never knew you could change it or why anyone would and chances are, Gabrielle didn't either.

I figured it out though. Talked to Kamila this morning and she says the reason for design similarities (apart from her watching us map, obviously) is because she gave her blue prints and a copy of the Dimensions wad to Gabrielle to look at and see if she liked it so she could add some maps of her own if she wanted (provided they somewhat follow our theme rules) and it's kinda funny, she found most of the maps kind of ugly and boring. She was bluntly honest about it too.

She thinks the hub level for selecting episodes is a waste of a level space (she may be right) and that some rooms are way bigger than they need to be.

We may have to challenge her to make her own version of "The Teleportation Complex" just to see how much better she can depict the base compared to Kamila.

And if you'd care to, DW, you can compare the levels for yourselves and tell us what you think **


Little Temple Group

Old Post 01-29-13 23:47 #
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LittleTemple
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Woe wait a second. You guys aren't actually serious, are you? I thought it was a joke! =P
I might not be personally insulted but, to Gabrielle it might sound like you're saying there is no way in hell a kid could map this good and therefor she's a poser. It would certainly explain why she suddenly decided to get brave enough and venture out into the internet doom community on her own **

Besides, does it REALLY make sense? Why would we spend two months working on Dimensions with apparently subpar maps, than turn around and out of nowhere pump out five decent quality vanilla DOOM II maps. That just sounds insane to me. Maybe more so because I know Dimensions is Kamila's baby.

Seriously, I mean I agree there are SOME similarities but, that's honestly to be expected. She hasn't seen anyone else map in person for six months besides us. Certainly she'd design a light that she saw and knew would work, or the shape of a room. We didn't even come up with most of these shapes. They're pretty much something that can be found in quite a few Heretic levels =P

I mean, a catwalk, lights, caves? Really? How different can a catwalk or a light truly be? Certainly you guys have played DOOM II's level "The Chasm" and possibly hated it.

If you take a close close CLOSE look at her designs (Gabrielle's) and the designs of Kamila and Elizavetta (Mainly Projekt Xero), how exactly do those mesh up to Gabrielle's style?

It just doesn't make sense for us to spend all this time creating something that follows a theme we've been fighting about for months and than turn around and make admittedly better quality (in my opinion) maps and than not take credit for it. As good as I personally think they are, they could pass as DOOM 2 vanilla style maps by someone any age. If you guys liked it and it were by use rather than Gabrielle, would it really be different? We didn't expect you to cut her slack because she's a kid. Her designs don't ask to be pampered because of the author's age.
Do they have flaws? Sure, I suppose a map critic could find them but, most maps probably do =P

So, again, you guys aren't actually serious, are you? =P

Old Post 02-02-13 23:36 #
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hex11
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Don't waste time or energy on this conspiracy stuff. Just keep making cool vanilla DOOM or DOOM II maps. :-)

Old Post 02-03-13 06:01 #
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KiiiYiiiKiiiA
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hex11 said:
Don't waste time or energy on this conspiracy stuff. Just keep making cool vanilla DOOM or DOOM II maps. :-)


This. Totally this.

Old Post 02-03-13 07:48 #
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LittleTemple
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Eh, I won't. I was just rereading the thread today (or yesterday, ha, its 1 in the morning now) and realized what I thought was a joke may have been serious. Trouble is, because I thought it was a joke I told Gabrielle about it.

Because of her poor english (another reason I offered to post her wad for her) I have trouble understanding her reactions to "news" =P

Anyway, I was just saying that it just... seems out there. She made five maps in less than a week and in good quality too. If I could do that, Dimensions would be done AND not suffering map rewrites haha

Shoot, my whole team minus Elizavetta, we have jobs. So in reality its next to impossible! But, that's why I thought it was a joke =P Maybe it is. I'm just double checking.


Actually, I don't think we'll be doing any vanilla stuff. Maybe some day. But for how bland our maps are coming out currently, they'd look horrible in vanilla.

We've resorted to playing more wads by other folks. I don't really know how Gabrielle managed to play doom for a half a year and get where she is in her designs. Maybe she just has an imagination.

It seems me and the others are good at coming up with ideas. They look awesome on paper but when put into doom, they come out... not so awesome. Not sure what we're doing wrong =P

Someone suggested what might help inspire us is to use Quake 1 textures for the maps and we're considering it

Old Post 02-03-13 09:17 #
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maggotjoe
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Wow for a little kid thats some awesome mapping skills!

Old Post 02-03-13 19:50 #
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Hellbent
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Magnifique!!

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-JIC2BC6aw0k/UQ7Yww1739I/AAAAAAAADC4/JSvdaaBwJKQ/s1600/5+stars_sm.png

I keep thinking of Ikka Karånen. Need I say more?

Last edited by Hellbent on 02-03-13 at 21:43

Old Post 02-03-13 20:55 #
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LittleTemple
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I'll be sure to let her know she's appreciated!

I told her yesterday about the thread "Plutonia 2 sketches" and she today sent us a sketch of a level I "think" is called the drawbridge.

Just thought some of you might find it interesting to see how her maps start =P Her blueprints errr.. white prints.. are quite a bit different than kamila and ours. Maybe we should quit using graphing paper. It hasn't helped us so far =P

WARNING: Resolution is VERY high.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/2681/001wot.jpg

Old Post 02-04-13 01:19 #
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hex11
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Cool! Reminds me of the D&D maps I used to make (back in the 1e/2e TSR days). For those who don't speak french:
jaune porte = yellow door
jaune clef = yellow key
sortie = exit
atterissage = landing
le dessiner = can mean either the drawing, or to draw it (something that needs to be drawn)
escalier = stairway
dessinerpont = ... okey this is weird, it's technically "drawbridge" but that's a litteral translation from english. I seem to recall the french word being something else (can't remember ATM). Then again it could also mean that this is a bridge which still needs to be drawn.

Anyway, what you can do if the graph paper is messing with your head is to draw instad on plain white paper, then later on overlay a transparent sheet that has a grid on it. That's how some maps were done in D&D, and you could overlay either a square or hex grid on top to easily visualize distances.

Old Post 02-04-13 03:46 #
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LittleTemple
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Ah! That makes sense =P We figured out the drawbridge part kinda, but I thought escalier was elevator and atterissage meant destination haha.


as for the graph paper tip, thanks! that could help A LOT!

EDIT:

We sent her an email and asked her if it was an undrawn bridge and she replied and said that at the time she had drawn the sketch she forgot that "Drawbridge" is one word so yeah, it makes sense that it litterally translates to "Draw Bridge" in english haha

I played through the level (she sent that too) and died a couple of times.

Since you know french, here is a pic of the exit screen. Yeah I suck. I saw the sketch and still only found 2 of the four secrets =P

Never was good at Heretic...

http://i50.tinypic.com/23kvnf9.png

Last edited by LittleTemple on 02-04-13 at 06:41

Old Post 02-04-13 04:07 #
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Gez
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The weird Anglicisms ("jaune clé" instead of "clé jaune", or "dessiner pont" instead of "pont-levis"; with the further confusion between "to draw" as in making a picture and "to draw" as in to pull something) are the first thing to make me doubt your story. :p

Old Post 02-04-13 13:34 #
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LittleTemple
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Perhaps my sarcasm meter is busted but, I can't tell if you're sarcastically joking or you're being serious =P

I pretty much explained the whole thing in the post above. Certainly at one point in time when you were a kid you must've written drawbridge as "Draw Bridge" =P

As for jaune clé instead of clé jaune, I gotta admit I'm confused =P

Than again, I don't really know french thus, I have no idea how french people take notes. If jaune is yellow than wouldn't it come before key? Unless heretic does the keys different than doom =P

Chances are though, they're just notes and she probably never expected anyone else to read them save for her haha


But in all seriousness, if people are either going to keep making jokes and stuff, can't we make a joke thread or something?

Old Post 02-04-13 19:59 #
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Gez
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LittleTemple said:
I pretty much explained the whole thing in the post above. Certainly at one point in time when you were a kid you must've written drawbridge as "Draw Bridge" =P

A little French kid would have written "pont-levis", or some variant thereof. Not "dessiner pont".


LittleTemple said:
If jaune is yellow than wouldn't it come before key?

The position of adjectives relative to their noun is different in French from what it is in English. In English, you pretty much always put the adjective before the noun. Yellow key. Small key. Twisted key. Small, yellow, twisted key.

In French it's more complex. Clé jaune. Petite clé. Clé tordue. Petite clé tordue jaune. I'll let you read this overview if you're curious.

Anyway, these mistakes come from starting with the English phrases and then clumsily translating them, word by word, without a good knowledge of how French people actually speak. Which surprises me coming from a little girl who supposedly usually lives in France.

Old Post 02-04-13 20:52 #
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Tarnsman
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Oh wow the gigantic stream of bullshit posting turned out to be bullshit. Didn't see that coming. I for one am shocked and appalled. I think the more pertinent question here is: does anyone give a single flying fuck? I mean really. Little Temple posts are nothing more than a wall of masturbatory self-aggrandizing that should provoke only one response. "No one gives a shit!"

Old Post 02-04-13 21:30 #
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dew
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i applaud vader, gez, memfis et al for their various ways of solving the mystery of the Little Temple Group, but let me show you an easier approach:

LittleTemple
Kamila Zielinski
Elizavetta Zielinski
Gabrielle Bélanger (11yo blonde angel)
Valentine
Abiageal O'Maera

harem anime much?

Old Post 02-04-13 21:43 #
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Csonicgo


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dew said:
i applaud vader, gez, memfis et al for their various ways of solving the mystery of the Little Temple Group, but let me show you an easier approach:

LittleTemple
Kamila Zielinski
Elizavetta Zielinski
Gabrielle Bélanger (11yo blonde angel)
Valentine
Abiageal O'Maera

harem anime much?



So CIF4 will be a bishoujo interactive visual novel?

Old Post 02-04-13 21:56 #
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Captain Ventris
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Tarnsman said:
Oh wow the gigantic stream of bullshit posting turned out to be bullshit. Didn't see that coming. I for one am shocked and appalled. I think the more pertinent question here is: does anyone give a single flying fuck? I mean really. Little Temple posts are nothing more than a wall of masturbatory self-aggrandizing that should provoke only one response. "No one gives a shit!"

I was indeed wondering why people cared enough to dive into National Treasure territory, but at this point the payoff seems like it might be alright.

Old Post 02-04-13 22:08 #
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LittleTemple
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You're bringing Abiageal O'Meara into this why? =P

She isn't a member of our group, she's someone we paid to write some tunes for us.

As for anime watching, really? masturbatory posts? You guys must be gutter-brains. Sounds pretty gross to me, unless my understanding of the word masturbate in this context is WAY off.

Explain to me what exactly your point is? Maybe I'm blind but, I still don't see it =P

Old Post 02-05-13 00:39 #
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Tarnsman
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Ask yourself did you really need 600+ words to say, "This random 11 year-old girl a friend of mine brought back from France made some maps, here they are. For an 11 year-old these maps are really good, you should check them out,"? No you didn't.

Yet every single one of your posts is an obtuse blob of useless bullshit that ranges from pompous to absolutely bizarre. Did we really need a 1,000 word interview with someone who made a shitty soundtrack to a subpar set of levels? No! (Did said interview need to randomly talk about being Irish and Jews? No!) Do we really need to see "Friend X and I were arguing" in every post? No! Do we need to know that Gabrielle is the "angelic blonde every father wants as a daughter but knows he’ll go through hell by the time she’s fifteen"? No we don't! (I also would like to know why you would think that anyone would think Gabrielle sounds like that when you literally DID NOT DESCRIBE HER AT ALL BEFORE SAYING THAT! Does being named Gabrielle just naturally exude "angelic blonde"? Or maybe being a distant relative?) And you know why we don't need to know these things? Because... and I can't stress this enough... NO ONE FUCKING CARES! If you want to have your schizophrenic conversations and pretend you're a serious mapping team that anyone cares about, go do it on a private dev forum and come back when you can release something that you don't have to pretend an 11 year-old made in order to get people to judge it by different standards.

P.S. Purist, tell Dylan to keep pumping out maps, he's a pretty cool dude.

Old Post 02-05-13 01:47 #
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LittleTemple
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Wow, if that's the way you guys feel, sorry =/

I thought it was an interesting story. As for Abiageal O'Meara's interview, well, I dunno what to say about that. We just thought people might find it interesting. As for our levels being subpar and needing to pretend to be an 11 year old for a set up maps to be seen differently... I'm at a loss for words on that one =P

Firstly, nobody told us our levels were subpar. Till like a week after we posted the "Demon Laden" thing. Dunno how that fits. We've seen worse levels.

As for pretending we're a serious mapping team (err, schizophrenic serious mapping team, my bad), I don't know how that came about.

Are we trying to take our mapping seriously? Yes. Do we think our maps are serious? (Any good?)

Not recently, no.

As for my post about Gabrielle. I was trying to show some humor. I basically did describe her with that line you quoted. As for the teenage and father line, I just figured some fathers might still exist in the doom community and would right away understand what I was talking about.


But, if you guys want us to leave, than fine. No hard feelings. I get it.

Though it would've been great if someone could've told me the maps we did were shit three months ago when I signed up. =P

Old Post 02-05-13 01:59 #
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schwerpunk
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I wouldn't have put it quite so bluntly, but this has been smelling fishy for quite a while now. The overly eager volunteering of unnecessary information gives this whole thread an aroma of insincerity.

Honestly, like Tarn said, it doesn't matter where the maps come from. Sure, we're going to be a little easier with the critique if the mapper is a novice or young, but at the end of the day the map has to speak for itself.

Keep mapping and keep uploading, but if you are making up stories, just stop that.

Old Post 02-05-13 02:03 #
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LittleTemple
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Okay, fair enough. I still don't quite know 'what' has been smelling fishy for a while. Not sure about the volunteering of information, either.

Kamila, Valentine, Elizavetta, and myself are adults. When they told me to start posting our stuff on doom world under a shared account (in case I was out of town or otherwise busy) they said I could share whatever would help the community get to know us. Yes, including debates. We were hoping maybe others would have solutions to our problems and chip in =/ That's all

As for Abiageal O'Meara, I seriously hardly know her. I found her youtube channel, played some of her stuff to the others and we thought it'd be fun to have a newbie in music (though I honestly think she's pretty good, I probably just didn't give her much to go on) work with some newbies who are mapping.

We saw the thread about Aubrey Hodges and thought hey, that's pretty neat. Maybe we could get a friend to talk to Abiageal and ask her questions about her music. Maybe people'd like to read that!

So, maybe we shouldn't have made a separate thread for it, okay, fair enough. It was a mistake.

So again, if I or any other friend of mine annoyed ANYBODY, I sincerely apologize.

Old Post 02-05-13 02:48 #
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Obsidian
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Maybe you guys should get seperate accounts or something? I dunno. :/

Old Post 02-05-13 02:50 #
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LittleTemple
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Eh, I thought about that but, I guess I didn't think about it enough to ask the others. Kamila doesn't really like posting on the internet though, she tried out the Odamex chat channel, elizavetta probably wouldn't mind. I think Valentine did some posting over at Odamex but, I guess in the beginning our posts were just small update posts so it seemed rather pointless to make four accounts for that =P

Still, that's not a TERRIBLE idea

Old Post 02-05-13 02:54 #
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Paul D
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I've seen group projects on other sites, but there's one major difference here:

those projects, the group members established themselves into the community independently and individually, and then created a group account for their project out of convenience.

This reminds me of this hoax on another forum where it was eventually discovered that one person had four separate accounts with proxies and was posing as four different people. In Italy. Who all lived in the suburbs of the city of Rome. And added mistranslated Italian to his posts.

Turns out, he was some guy in Virginia or somethin'.

Or the Grunwalder hoax, where a guy faked his death on a forum for a college psychology project.

Last edited by Paul D on 02-05-13 at 03:17

Old Post 02-05-13 03:11 #
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LittleTemple
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Ah

I guess we just weren't sure how to approach it.

I (personally) have decided to just take a break from posting. However, I'm not sure if someone else will continue posting on this account or not. Just so everyone knows, we will continue working on Dimensions and maybe Projekt Xero and if the results prove to be good, we'll post them =)


Little Temple Group

Old Post 02-05-13 03:15 #
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buttspit
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The bleeding obvious French mistakes often causing a distraction in American movies and TV are what gave it away for me.

Old Post 02-05-13 05:17 #
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