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Hellish Godzilla
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Heh, I think your experience is opposite mine, in some respects. I came in ready to obey because this project's netting me the first legit feedback I've ever gotten on my music. And this is my first foray into Doom MIDI's. Considering how little I know about music theory, I think I've been scratching by pretty reasonably with Jimmy's help.

If you're still pondering Sepulchral's intro, Jimmy, do you think an intro with just the drums and/or bass would work? I tried to add one myself earlier to show you; unfortunately, Noteworthy Composer is shitty to me about importing MIDI's. I also see that you've picked up The Scarlet Citadel for Map29. I'm thinking of upping the bpm slightly, but is there anything else I should take a look at in terms of fixes, expansion, etc?

Old Post 06-20-13 05:24 #
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Eris Falling
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Don't get me wrong, I'll gladly try out any suggestions made, but I was sceptical before I actually tried them, which was a mistake. I even doubted the 9th interval idea when I first added it in but managed to make it fit eventually.

Anyway, I do believe it's done
Cry of Desperation (Remastered) - Now 100% more finished.

Since last version

  1. Added the tubular bells back in
  2. Changed the note lengths in various melodies for reverb effect
  3. Finished the acoustic guitar
  4. Volume Balancing (but feel-free to play around with it, I'm not sure if I got the strings right)
  5. Added the strings and warm pad, 9th intervals begin at bar 44.
  6. During a part where the atmosphere is fairly quiet, added a viola melody.


I should also mention that the viola melody seems to have a problem with Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth (is there an abbreviation for this?) where 2 notes come out as staccato even though they are not marked as such. You'll know them when you hear them. Not a clue how to fix it, so if someone knows, please go ahead and do so :)

Old Post 06-21-13 11:43 #
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Jimmy
doesn't rhyme with MIDI :(


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Eris Falling said:
image


Hahaha. XP I... don't really know what to say to that. I'm glad to have been a help, though. :P

Cry of Desperation turned out really well - great work. :D The only problem at the moment I think is the individual track volumes. Some things like the guitar and viola seem to be way louder than they need to be, and looking at it, it's probably because none of the other tracks have volume levels above 100. Given that the max is 127, you could probably afford to bump everything (except those two instruments) higher, as was done with Blood Rush. :)

The problem you're having with that viola solo (I hear it too) is due to the polyphony limit being reached thanks to the rest of the track being quite busy. Increase the track number on the viola from 9 to 1 or 2, and the notes on it will take higher priority, and therefore always play properly. :)

Hellish Godzilla: Thanks, I'll certainly give that a try for Sepulchral and see what I can do. :)

Scarlet Citadel is overall a good track - it just has a couple of things that bug me. The intro is a tad too discordant, for one thing. What's the key the song's supposed to be in? There's all sorts of harmonies going on in the first few bars that kinda confuse me. The bass line also needs a bit of a tidy up - maybe the chords, as well? There's something about the guitar melody (which is fine on its own) blending with the rest of the track that doesn't sound quite right. Sorry if that's not a huge help, I'm having trouble wording it. I can do something with it myself if you like and show you what I mean.

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Old Post 06-21-13 18:43 #
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Eris Falling
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Jimmy said:
volumestuff


Stupid Anvil doesn't go over 100 >_< I really need to get a new program; I can't pitch bend either.

The guitar is 96 as you said, but I think you must mean later in the track. I'll bring the note volumes down. I always have them set to full because it's easy to work with.
The Warm Pad and String Ensemble are way too loud on that version, I set them to about 50 for some unknown reason.


EDIT: Yeah ignore all the code that was there, I've got it. What's interesting about this track is that it sounds better in a different soundfont (WeedsGM3) than my usual setup (SGM with Giant Soundfont drums). I'm going to give it a good OPL test next :P

Anyway, supposed final version here

Last edited by Eris Falling on 06-22-13 at 09:44

Old Post 06-22-13 09:21 #
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Lippeth
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Oy vey! I didn't realise that one of my songs was in the map 10 slot, I sort of abandoned it after adding another minute. The drums still need refining, but I'll have it finished in less than a week. I was wondering why this project is taking so long, but behold! It's people like me...

Eris, I love the chord strum sounds and the spaghetti western melody you put into Cry of Desperation! I feel like it fits map 30.

Also, I really like "Denied" for map11, although "Always Watching" gives off a different vibe which is pretty cool, but overall, Doomkid92's tune gives the Archviles more of a raunchy, predatory presence. The actual title 'Always Watching' seems to fit 11 better though, maybe we could swap song titles, though I don't know what that would achieve functionally. Either way, I'm open to anything.

Here's a longer rendition of Always Watching, I still think the drums need work, as I just looped it to a point. Jimmy, let me know what needs to be done.

Last edited by Lippeth on 06-22-13 at 23:07

Old Post 06-22-13 09:42 #
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Jimmy
doesn't rhyme with MIDI :(


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Eris Falling: It's probably worth noting that I listen to all MIDIs with the default General MIDI sound, which I think is sensible as that's how Doom will play them, unless you opt for the OPL synth or a soundfont with ZDoom and TiMidity++. Hence, I think you should always check that your MIDIs sound okay in this sound and make whatever changes are needed to get it sounding proper if there are problems.

Anyway, thanks a bunch. I do love the track and I concur with Lippeth on the chord strums - very neat indeed. :D I think the volumes now are pretty damn okay.

Now I hate to be that guy again, but on listening to it in-game (I'm playing it in Cyberden, as the MAP31 slot is where I think it'd fit best), there's something a bit "eh" about the guitar. I reckon a harpsichord* might actually be better in an odd sort of way, though it might have something to do with the first chord being a CM which we can't really do much about at this point.

(*My reasoning is that there's quite a few harpsichords in the new tracks, so maybe it can be the Plutonia music *thing*, like how many of TNT's tracks were distortion guitar and square/saw-synth oriented.)

Lippeth: Woot, thanks for extending that track. :D The drums seem fine - not at all repetitive even if that's how they are. To be honest with you, I'm definitely keener on having your track in the MAP11 slot and Doomkid's in MAP10's. There's just an awesome creepy atmosphere that your track sets right from the outset that seems perfect for being stalked by archviles in a massive ochre labyrinth. Doomkid's seems more fitting to the hectic play style of Onslaught.

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Old Post 06-25-13 15:17 #
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Eris Falling
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I'm torn. There's plenty of replacements for the guitar. I'm not so sure about harpsichord, but Banjo sounds pretty neat. Nothing I've tried seems to sound as nice as the guitar though. The other instruments don't seem to have that sort of kick in the block chords that really stands out.
I'll try it out in Cyberden and see if that helps out.

EDIT: Apparently not.

Last edited by Eris Falling on 06-25-13 at 22:12

Old Post 06-25-13 21:58 #
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Lippeth
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I feel like Eris's tune could really be kicked up a notch by adding some hummable synth/string melodies throughout. As it stands, it sounds like the 'vocalist' hasn't put down his track yet. I know this sort of music is only meant to set the tone for killing hellspawn, but I think it could really benefit from some catchy 'vocal style' melodies. Something that players can relate to when they tell their friends about a cool song from a music mod that went 'la la la dum dum dur'. They can't do that if you don't give them a melody to tie the whole piece together in their minds. The melody doesn't have to be complex, in fact sometimes it's better to keep it simple.

Everything I just said may be complete poppycock, I'm merely thinking out loud.

Old Post 06-26-13 01:12 #
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Eris Falling
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The fact I can't do pitch bending never got to me until that viola melody. It was originally a calliope but I couldn't get it to sound right without that tool. I was going for a similar effect to 1:57-onwards in Rimco's E1M8. In some ways I think I'd need this for a melody for CoD*

I had seen the current string/synth tracks as holding the melody, what with the variation in the top notes of the chord, but they're not so hummable.

*lol my cod is beter#

EDIT: And I just realised that the track could very well be replacing Sign of Evil. I'm unsure how a melody would sound, but we'll see what Jimmy thinks

Last edited by Eris Falling on 06-26-13 at 08:34

Old Post 06-26-13 08:29 #
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Bucket
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Jimmy - I don't know how adamant you are on the tracks being new and original, but FYI I'm making significant progress on my own megaWAD lately so I'll be dropping some of my songs from this project in there.

Old Post 06-28-13 04:38 #
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Jimmy
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Bucket: That's fine, do go ahead. :)

Eris Falling/Lippeth: I think I concur. An extra melody might work nicely, perhaps on the strings or the choir. The melody doesn't need to be repetitive or particularly prominent, just there to serve as a nice underpin to the rest of the track, similar to the high, sad-sounding string riff from "Legion of the Lost".

---

Meanwhile, I have done what I can with Claustrophobia and Scarlet Citadel.

Scarlet Citadel's intro has been cleaned up substantially, though the rest of the track it pretty much fine in its current form, and I made only minor adjustments to it. I also extended it a little by copying a segment, though I get the feeling that it could have something more done to it just to make that little bit more aurally interesting.

http://speedy.sh/AjvFh/scarlet-citadel-Jimmy.mid

What I ended up doing with Claustrophobia, meanwhile, resulted in something very very different from its original form. I have to apologize to ClumsyDoomer for changing it so greatly, but there was a *lot* of dissonance in it - the melody was in B, the bass was in C# and the extra guitar at the end was in F. It really wasn't dissonant in the way that Bobby Prince would've done - just an unfortunately rather big pile-up of clashing keys. I've done what I can to address these issues while keeping as much of the original melodies intact as possible, and must apologize in advance if my edits aren't to his liking.

http://speedy.sh/9gDq7/Claustrophobia-Jimmy.mid

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Old Post 06-28-13 20:39 #
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Eris Falling
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Jimmy said:

Eris Falling/Lippeth: I think I concur. An extra melody might work nicely, perhaps on the strings or the choir. The melody doesn't need to be repetitive or particularly prominent, just there to serve as a nice underpin to the rest of the track, similar to the high, sad-sounding string riff from "Legion of the Lost".




I agree with not being prominent, else it would detract from the viola. I still haven't tried out a melody yet, I'm wondering if the bells would work..

Old Post 06-28-13 20:46 #
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Hellish Godzilla
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Ah, so you beat me to it, Jimmy. The changes sound good to me. I think the main thing left would be to raise the bpm. I originally had that set at 137, but I found that it works better at 139 or higher. The last half or so practically needs a boost for it to be effective, IMO.

Old Post 06-28-13 22:57 #
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ClumsyDoomer
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Jimmy said:

http://speedy.sh/9gDq7/Claustrophobia-Jimmy.mid


Liked it very much, but why did you take out echoes? I think, they would've sound really better.

Old Post 07-01-13 04:37 #
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Eris Falling
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Now with a melody where appropriate on strings, and an improved drum solo when it gets going: Cry of Desperation, once more

Didn't bother doing anything with the guitar, because I couldn't find a suitable instrument to replace it, harpsichord still didn't sound right to me.

Old Post 07-01-13 10:54 #
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Jimmy
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ClumsyDoomer: Personally I don't think that echoes make a great lead instrument, they're more suited to imitating choirs. Though since I guess they were a pretty fundamental part of your original conception for the track, here they are again (plus some corrective updates):
http://speedy.sh/AGhxh/Claustrophobia-Jimmy.mid

Eris Falling: Very neat, am liking those new strings a lot. :D Updated.

Is Mr. Freeze still around? I'd like to remind him that his MAP13 track is still unfinished.

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Old Post 07-08-13 18:56 #
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Eris Falling
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Oh shit sorry! I meant to post before you updated it again, but completely forgot :P
I promise I won't keep making changes to this :P

Sorry again :P - Okay, so I didn't like the "harmonies" on the harp at the end, so I reverted them back to the original version of the track, and put the echos on it. I also got rid of the G7 note on the strings as I felt it to be a bit odd to listen to.

I think the guitar is on nylon strings on this version. I'm not entirely sure why I changed it, but if you preferred the steel, you can change them back if you want.

Old Post 07-08-13 19:03 #
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Jimmy
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Not a problem. :P Updated again.

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Old Post 07-08-13 22:21 #
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Eris Falling
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Bump
Any updates from anyone?

Old Post 07-22-13 20:38 #
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Jimmy
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Clearly not, though I suppose I should pop in. :P

I just noticed that Mr. Freeze's MAP13 track was actually fleshed out to two minutes in length, which I made no note of nor updated it on the repository. This has been rectified.

With that done, it looks as though there really isn't anything else to wait for, so I suppose I should get this damn thing released into beta. xP

GET EQUIPPED WITH PUBLIC BETA!

http://jimmy.the-powerhouse.net/WAD...DIPack-beta.wad

This WAD contains what should hopefully be the final track order for all 32 maps (and they're hopefully all the right versions - do let me know if I've screwed anything up). If you play this with ZDoom, it also comes with an autoloading script that prints the name of the currently playing track to the screen when the map begins.

Hope you folks enjoy using this. Any and all feedback is appreciated (and encouraged, as this is still a beta). :)

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Last edited by Jimmy on 07-24-13 at 18:20

Old Post 07-24-13 18:15 #
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Eris Falling
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Some really nice MIDIs in here. I really like the "Now playing" feature on ZDoom. I like all the tracks.

Also..
Cry of Desperation made it to MAP31 mothafucka! Given that it wasn't written for a specific slot, I'm pleased to see it made it in eventually.

Old Post 07-24-13 18:41 #
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Lippeth
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I've got no issues with it. Songs seem to fit the maps they're assigned to very well.

Old Post 07-28-13 21:24 #
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Jayextee
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Jimmy said:

Hope you folks enjoy using this.



Damn straight I have been. You've no idea how perfectly this music complements the 'traditional' set of 100 Lines levels.

Old Post 07-28-13 21:35 #
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Hellish Godzilla
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Sounds like we've got a great collection overall... except for 'The Scarlet Citadel.' Dunno if I'm being too hard on myself, but it doesn't strike me as very inspired compared to everything else. Listening to it now, I cringe a bit. The good news is that I have a bit more time and inspiration to work on music at the moment. I can deliver a substitute by Wednesday, I think - I have a mostly complete track that just needs some drums, a little expansion, and then a bit of refining after that.

Old Post 07-29-13 09:24 #
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Lippeth
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Hellish Godzilla said:
Dunno if I'm being too hard on myself, but it doesn't strike me as very inspired compared to everything else.

You can go crazy if you don't just call it good at some point. There are a few spots in all of my songs that I could go back and improve, but it's like a healing wound, you'll only make it worse by messing with it...

Scarlet Citadel is just fine IMO, Dark, sad and big with those drums on the upbeat. Like an evil space western. I don't know...If you're worried that it sounds bad and out of place, it doesn't, and I blame the fact that you've probably listened to it one too many times while trying to clean it up.

Old Post 07-29-13 09:42 #
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dachauncinator
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Map 23 still open?

Old Post 07-29-13 09:53 #
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Jimmy
doesn't rhyme with MIDI :(


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Oh, uh... sort of. I guess the slot is still empty in the first post because PRIMEVAL dropped out and no one claimed it in his stead. I have Bucket's "Plug Ugly" track in that slot in the beta, which I think fits okay, but feel free to do something if you want. :)

Hellish Godzilla, I kinda like Scarlet Citadel how it is. If you think you can definitely do better, though, do go ahead. :)

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Old Post 07-29-13 20:33 #
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Hellish Godzilla
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I appreciate the votes of confidence. Well, I won't hurry with the track I'm working on in that case. Scarlet Citadel still sounds a bit corny at times to my ears, but I did spend quite a while listening to it while playing Map29 yesterday, and I can hear that it works overall. I don't think my 'replacement' has quite the atmosphere to dethrone Scarlet Citadel from the current slot. I might post it later for the sake of appraisal, though.

Old Post 07-31-13 08:20 #
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Hellish Godzilla
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So. Now that a month's passed, where do we stand with this project? Are we about ready for the final release?

Old Post 08-25-13 08:58 #
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Bucket
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I don't know, it seems like we were waiting for you to update a track, or give a concrete "pass" on it.
I have nothing to add to the project.

Old Post 08-25-13 10:51 #
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