Doom 64 for Doom II

axdoom1 said:

It's already a vanilla Doom mod, but development has stopped for a while. I guess mappers lost interest.

That's what I figured. I haven't played Doom 64 in so long that I've almost forgotten everything. It'd be great simply to be able to see things with better lighting. I haven't really checked, is there a playable demo as is?

thesubcon3 said:

That's what I figured. I haven't played Doom 64 in so long that I've almost forgotten everything. It'd be great simply to be able to see things with better lighting. I haven't really checked, is there a playable demo as is?

There's an accurate conversion for PC called Doom64: Absolution Doom64 EX. You can search for it on Google and get it. I have my own copy, but it doesn't work if I move it from where it is currently standing on my USB key. (A bug I guess)

I'd recommend Doom64 EX instead.

You're right. I meant Doom64 EX, which is the accurate conversion done by Kaiser, but I got mixed and said Absolution TC.

You will need to create a Doom64 IWAD from the N64 ROM using a tool that's included with the engine.

I got a Doom64 v1.0 and another Doom64 v1.1 ROM. I don't know what's different with the v1.1 ROM.

Doom 64 EX is awesome. I highly recommend using that if you want a true Doom 64 experience. I'm not sure what the difference is between the ROM versions to tell the truth. Maybe whoever extracted the Doom 64 ROM changed something about it during the process or fixed some kind of problem. I wouldn't know.

Anyway, I was trying to do some work on The Lair and The Absolution since they aren't finished. I apparently lack certain skills to do it. I'm no stranger to Doom Builder of course but some of the mapping techniques I've seen are making my head spin. Trying to recreate the final fight with the Mother Demon is very hard to do in the PC Doom engine.

The guys who made Doom 64 must have used scripts for things that we just don't have the ability to do if we want to keep it vanilla as far as the maps go. I don't know how we would be able to make enemies spawn in after a certain time frame and then have the boss spawn after a certain time frame, lower the floors, and who knows what else.

I was thinking of just changing the whole way the boss works (since some compromises will need to be made). Maybe the guys who have more experience making these maps should be ones fixing them.

Thesubcon3 asked for a playable demo, and you recommended him Doom64 EX. I'm pretty sure that he actually asked for a playable demo of this project, Doom 64 for Doom II, though. That's a completely different thing.

I know this... the only problem is that it's sort of all over the place at the moment. Some maps don't play correctly (since they appear to have been straight up copied over from Doom 64's map).

I can upload what I have put together right now I suppose. I've added some stuff that isn't really vanilla compatible though, like PNGs for stuff and MAPINFO that Chocolate Doom won't be able to read. I tried it just now in Chocolate Doom and it gave me a "Bad V_DrawPatch" error.

I guess if you really wanted to play it in vanilla, you could take out everything except the maps. I just use GZDoom for everything so I've been modifying my own WAD and stuff for use in GZDoom since that's how I'm going to be playing it.

I'll post a demo of what I have in a few.

Yes, Doom64 uses scripts. On Map03: Main Engineering, I have to find how to do the structure that builds itself automatically. I have my own idea and I hope it will work. There are some objects that "appear" on the map. It's all done with script. Some Doom64 maps even have 3D floors. Doom64 for Doom 2 can't be perfect, but it should be as close as possible.

Nevander said:

I know this... the only problem is that it's sort of all over the place at the moment. Some maps don't play correctly (since they appear to have been straight up copied over from Doom 64's map).

I can upload what I have put together right now I suppose. I've added some stuff that isn't really vanilla compatible though, like PNGs for stuff and MAPINFO that Chocolate Doom won't be able to read. I tried it just now in Chocolate Doom and it gave me a "Bad V_DrawPatch" error.

I guess if you really wanted to play it in vanilla, you could take out everything except the maps. I just use GZDoom for everything so I've been modifying my own WAD and stuff for use in GZDoom since that's how I'm going to be playing it.

I'll post a demo of what I have in a few.

EDIT: Here you go. http://www.filedropper.com/d64d2

Thanks! I'll download this tonight when I get home from work and try it out.

Basically I am looking for a vanilla doom version so I can add the brutal doom modifiers to it. I'm not a complainer when it comes to mods and definitely not looking for a perfect answer immediately as this is a passion project after all. I just love being able to play more Doom 64 in a different way! You all rule!

Tried the demo out. Converting the PNGs to Doom format was enough to make it work in Doom Retro at least. Only played a couple of the included maps yet, but I Think it's awesome so far.

@Nevander: Thanks so much for sharing this. I wonder if you'd mind putting up a wad with just the weapons in it though? I loaded your WMI wad up in Slade but I didn't really know what I was looking at! :)

Well I was able to fix up and create a proper boss fight. That's the good news, the bad news is it's REALLY easy if you know a couple things.

The demon gates right now can be shut by just using a switch. That means you can just rush up, close the gates, BFG the boss twice and it's over. It may be better for this mod that we completely remove the possibility to shut them.

Reason being is that I have no clue how to possibly tie picking up or not picking up an item that doesn't even exist without an additional mod, which also isn't even set up to spawn where it should to begin with, with the ability to use a switch on a map. With the PC Doom engine, I do not think this is possible even with scripts.

I've set it up so that once the boss is killed (which is the Spider Mastermind right now, mainly because the WMI mod I posted will replace the SM with the Mother Demon), the level will end. This is what we want, except for the fact that the level ends THE VERY SECOND the boss dies, instead of with a delay of about three or so seconds like how it does in Doom 64.

I've also changed the way the floors and stuff works. It was deemed too complicated to try to make the floors around the arena rise at the same time as others fall due to the limited ability of linedef actions and no scripting or macro abilities. Now, the floor will already be risen up and there are a couple linedefs that will lower the floors where the boss spawns in.

Some more bad news is that the entire boss fight will only even begin once you fire a shot or "alert" them. Otherwise, you're going to be running around an empty arena. I don't know if it's possible to tie a linedef to causing a monster to appear without seeing the player. Where is a "push wall towards linedef" action when we need it! Would be nice, that way crossing a line would "push" the monsters through the teleport linedef.

So many compromises... but it's the best we can do I believe.

I'm sure there's a satisfactory way to implement the boss fight, even if it won't behave much like the original. Dehacked will help with monster triggers. Plus some vanilla "scripting" if necessary.

I think you'll have to place a few monsters on the level to force the player to kill them and alert the monsters outside of the map so they can teleport in the arena before the player closes the gates.

As for the pillars at the center of the arena where the boss is, you can make the pillars go very high above the sky so they won't be seen falling as soon a you enter the arena. You can make the same thing for the floor where the boss is. Make it very low and make it rise when the player enters the arena.

Adjust the height of the pillars and of the floor where the boss is so the boss will appear when the player will be finished or almost finished with the other monsters. You can't make it accurate, it will be an estimation.

You can also place the boss outside of the map and make it teleport in the arena using the same floor actions that are used for the pillars.

Use DeHackEd to change the health of the boss.

A typical way of forcing the player to alert the monsters is a mandatory shootable switch.

Yep, a mandatory G1 or GR switch to open the path to the main chamber would work perfectly well.

Good idea, it could be used for the first and only door of the level in the start room.

How would you guys suggest going about starting a new map to convert over? Do you guys build from scratch or do you copy over from Doom Builder 64 into Doom Builder 2 and then just fix the copy errors/change for Doom 2 style? I was thinking of starting on a new map myself, maybe Eye of the Storm. I don't think it's been done yet.

You have to build it from scratch. Download the N64 ROM or use a Doom64 cartridge on your N64 if you prefer. I guess taking the maps in Doom Builder 64 and copying them would be copyright infringement.

axdoom1 said:

I guess taking the maps in Doom Builder 64 and copying them would be copyright infringement.

Then we have a lot of copyright infringement already.

Between you, me, and the entire English-speaking world, I doubt that copy-pasting yields any advantage other than the geometry being 100% accurate; having to go through all the textures, flats, sector effects and linedef types manually to edit/fix them accordingly to prevent Doom2.exe from exploding sounds like more hassle than it'd be worth.

I dunno. An empty editor window always looks very intimidating to me. I want to grab some tea and/or surf the web immediately.

Besides, stripping the pasted geometry of all the unnecessary properties is not that hard.

Da Werecat said:

I dunno. An empty editor window always looks very intimidating to me. I want to grab some tea and/or surf the web immediately.

Exactly how I feel at times. Making an original map is one thing (since you just work from your mind), but trying to accurately remake something by hand is very intimidating. A map like Staging Area, no big deal. A map like Eye of the Storm? Yea good luck.

Good news though, I'm making some good progress on Eye of the Storm. I'm porting it over to Doom II style and so far so good. I found the easiest way is to just copy over from Doom Builder 64 and then remove literally everything Doom 64. This means to temporarily remove all textures, change all flats, remove tags and actions, and then check the map for errors.

Doom 64 loves single sided linedefs for some reason, and Eye of the Storm had a ridiculous amount of them. I had to change them all to double sided otherwise the map doesn't render correctly (i.e. stuff only being drawn while on that side). The most tedious part of porting a map is just error fixing. Texturing is fun, and making the maps work again is fun. The part I don't like is fixing errors and making the geometry.

Thank God for Doom Builder 64. All I have to say.

I'll post some screenshots of the map tomorrow once I have something concrete to show off. Then comes the link. I also fixed up The Absolution and made the fight work pretty much perfectly for Doom II style. I'll post that too.

Sorry to double post, but here is the most recent combined WAD. I've fixed a few problems with the WAD and stuff, reworked MAP28 (The Absolution) and added MAP14 (Eye of the Storm). The link is just for the WAD, the other stuff (like textures, monsters, and stuff is in the filedropper back in the thread).

Enjoy. This is the first map I ported over (MAP14), tell me how I did!

EDIT: Page 17 has latest download link.

I played it and while it's not compatible with Brutal Doom, it does play and I have really been enjoying it!

It should be. Weapons, monsters, items, and stuff like that are untouched. If you load this first and then Brutal Doom, it should work fine. The only graphics that are changed are the menu graphics, text, and stuff like that. All the gameplay is still vanilla. Make sure you are only loading "D64D2_combined.wad" and then the Brutal Doom stuff.

The list of maps still avaiable should be updated, so interested mappers could claim slots. The current map list seems to be very disorganized.

Current missing maps:

The Terraformer
Main Engineering (axdoom1 has started it)
Alpha Quadrant
Even Simpler (was worked on before, link dead)
The Bleeding
Terror Core
Altar of Pain
Dark Citadel
Dark Entries (saw screenshots of it, couldn't find link)
Watch Your Step (saw screenshots, no link)
Breakdown (saw lots of screenshots but links dead)
Pitfalls
Unholy Temple
No Escape
Outpost Omega

^
I'm working on Outpost Omega. Really should get back to things.

I guess it's time to finish what the second map that I've started... totally forgot about this.

Breakdown/Map22
http://speedy.sh/h8Tet/D64M20-61.rar
pw: project64

The second map I was working on was Map17. If there's a map author already working on it and far into the project I still would like to add my easter egg to it as it's pretty cool - pm me.

Current state of Map17