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Capellan
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So, for the last week or so a challenge has been percolating in my head ... put together the best possible level that meets all 5 of the following criteria:

1. is Boom-compatible; and
2. uses only vanilla textures; and
3. is fun to play; and
4. looks OK; and
5. is constructed with 100 linedefs or less.

To put this last criteria in context, e1m1 has 486 linedefs.

I figure this is an interesting thing since we usually rely very heavily on linedefs when adding detail to maps - such as wall insets and lighting - and to create breaks between different textures. Strictly limiting the number of linedefs forces us to look at other ways to create detail and visual appeal (such as using things).

My first stab at such a map is here.

I'm pretty sure it's far from the best possible outcome. So feel free to try and do better :) If we get a few such efforts, we might even put them together as an idgames release.

Obligatory screenshot:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/crowroadaw/100lines_zpsaa0b0c66.jpg

List of maps:

TRAD
code:
01 Capellan - "Project Alpha" 02 traversd - "Century Base" 03 Kaiser - "Kaiser 27" 04 Jayextee - "Cross the Rubicon" 05 Katamori - "Convenient System Store" 06 Chris Hansen - "100 Shades of Flay" 07 Capellan - "Sins" 08 joepallai - "The Broken Gate" 09 theJF - "Quirkafleeg Performance Review" 10 Jayextee - "Root of Evil" 11 Scifista42 - "Port Penbene" 12 Obsidian - "Shotgun Alley" 13 General Rainbow Bacon - "Watch Your Back" 14 joe-ilya - "Minimum Fear" 15 Capellan - "Bridge Over Troubled Nukage" 16 Fiend - "Hunski" 17 Jayextee - "Phobos Aberration" 18 Scypek2 - "Bitter" 19 Walter Confalonieri - "Green Station Fad" 20 joe-ilya - "Logo" 21 Traversd - "Centennial Mine" 22 Scet - "Hell's Triangles" 23 Dutch Doomer - "Slaughter Dis" 24 Scet - "The Lavaning" 25 Jayextee - "Demon Bayou" 26 Membrain - "Devilís Knot" 27 Skillsaw - "Springtime in Hell" 28 Mikle - "Cells" 29 Capellan - "Charnel" 30 Obsidian - "Brink of Death" 31 Scifista42 - "Wolfenstain" 32 ChaingunnerX - "Sleep Town"



NON-TRAD
code:
01 Scypek2 - "Flow" 02 Ribbiks - "Big Butts" 03 durian - "DOOMuda Triangle" 04 General Rainbow Bacon - "Tiptoe" 05 Demonologist - "Hyperborean" 06 ArmouredBlood - "Nukage Processing" 07 Scypek2 - "Rooftop Rampage" 08 BloodyAcid - "abnormalize" 09 dobugabumaru - "Exquisite Guilt" 10 Magnusblitz - "Demon Abbey" 11 TimeOfDeath - "Forest of Undesirables" 12 Demonologist - "Burrow" 13 Archi - "Trine" 14 theJF - "Banyan Tree" 15 Obsidian - "Aquaden" 16 Jayextee - "Contain Yourself!" 17 TimeOfDeath - "Stares" 18 JCD - "Bloody Walls" 19 Demonologist - "Black Throne" 20 Obsidian - "Indulge" 21 Capellan - "Shard Gate" 22 dobugabumaru - "Hunter" 23 General Rainbow Bacon - "Spiral of Despair" 24 Jayextee - "Godís Wound" 25 Plut - "Cosy Nook" 26 Walter Confalonieri - "Welcome to the Limit" 27 Scet - "Springtime Slaughter" 28 ArmouredBlood - "100 lines of Doom" 29 BloodyAcid - "Puncture" 30 Da Spadger - "Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!" 31 TimeOfDeath (with thanks to Sandy Petersen) - "Centryway" 32 Jayextee - "NŁsse"


GET THE WADS HERE


Additional maps not in the compilation
Obsidian again (map30)
Memfis
Phml
Scifista again
an_mutt
st.alfonzo
alfonzo's 2nd
Obsidian.
AB takes offence at Obsidian's output :)
Archi
NoobBait
Archi again
Obsidian is an over-achiever, it seems
Walter Confalonieri #2 (map21)
Archi again
Tuxlar
traversd #3

Last edited by Capellan on 08-22-13 at 19:59

Old Post 06-15-13 06:32 #
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Obsidian
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Not the sexiest map I've seen, but certainly an interesting context. I might try something like it. :)

Old Post 06-15-13 06:54 #
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dobu gabu maru
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Really novel idea Capellan. I tried your map but that AV was in a far too tricky position for me to finish it on my first go. Might give this a try tomorrow

Old Post 06-15-13 07:20 #
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ArmouredBlood
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well this was kind of fun. Slaughtermap, what else do I make. Interesting to see how undetailed I can go while still going with the formulaic 3-areas-of-ever-increasing-difficulty approach.

Old Post 06-15-13 09:09 #
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Capellan
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Obsidian said:
Not the sexiest map I've seen, but certainly an interesting context. I might try something like it. :)


It would definitely be easy to jazz the map visuals up ... the issue is doing it with only 100 linedefs :)


ArmouredBlood said:
well this was kind of fun. Slaughtermap, what else do I make. Interesting to see how undetailed I can go while still going with the formulaic 3-areas-of-ever-increasing-difficulty approach.


Just blasted through it on HMP. Quite good fun. Not a fan of the red skull texture = red door when the blue and yellow skull textures do not = blue and yellow doors, though.

Old Post 06-15-13 09:28 #
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dannebubinga
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FDA For AB's map.

I missed one monster but still got 100% kills. Nice map.

Old Post 06-15-13 09:32 #
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Magnusblitz
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Interesting idea, another design-limitation-based concept. Reminds me a bit of five rooms, though with a more exact explanation/ruleset. 100 might be on the low side... even Dead Simple is nearly 200 linedefs.

Capellan's map definitely isn't the prettiest, though part of it is due to using a different texture in every room. The decorations are a bit weak too, as it's often just a column in a corner. Still, stuff like having the level wrap around and use one sector as a ceiling for two different areas shows the sort of trick needed. 100 lines basically gets you 25 square rooms, give or take a few extra for switches and the like. I find it interesting that in a few spots you use extra "unnecessary" linedefs (such as turning a corner into a another linedef with the metal texture, or adding a small "step" sector).

ArmouredBlood's map uses a lot of mid textures for switches and such which looks weird, but also helps save a lot of linedefs. It's not bad.

Old Post 06-15-13 09:42 #
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Capellan
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Magnusblitz said:
100 might be on the low side... even Dead Simple is nearly 200 linedefs.[/B]


The limit is quite deliberately brutal, to really force the mapper to map sacrifices/compromises. 200 lines would be too easy :)



Magnusblitz said:
The decorations are a bit weak too, as it's often just a column in a corner.


Or some guts 'n' bones, yep. Decorative things is something I don't generally use a lot of, and I think it shows here, where the sector/line based detail is forced to be sparse.

If i do another of these, I think I'll try a hell or wood/marble area ... Doom has a lot more hellish decorations than tech ones.



Magnusblitz said:
I find it interesting that in a few spots you use extra "unnecessary" linedefs (such as turning a corner into a another linedef with the metal texture, or adding a small "step" sector).


An attempt to create a little visual interest ... I initially aimed for 75 linedefs for the basic layout and 25 for 'fancy' elements, but it probably worked out at closer to 85/15.

Old Post 06-15-13 10:05 #
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ArmouredBlood
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I'd have used actual lines to denote that there was a key door using all 3 key colors, but I ran out of lines. Perhaps it's simple enough I could've just left the doors at doors, but the key textures make it easier to associate which door is which if going for speed.

Old Post 06-15-13 10:44 #
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Capellan
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ArmouredBlood said:
I'd have used actual lines to denote that there was a key door using all 3 key colors, but I ran out of lines.


Any reason you didn't make the 3 doors a red key door (gives you yellow key), then yellow key door (give you blue), then blue key door (exit)? That would allow consistency of texture use and achieve the same outcome.

Old Post 06-15-13 11:05 #
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ArmouredBlood
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Capellan said:
Any reason you didn't make the 3 doors a red key door (gives you yellow key), then yellow key door (give you blue), then blue key door (exit)? That would allow consistency of texture use and achieve the same outcome.


I think that occurred to me but I didn't bother changing it because it was like 1 am when I made the map. Why am I still up at 3 am >.> Oh and I wanted at least a tiny bit of nonlinearity. I did not achieve much.

Old Post 06-15-13 11:08 #
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Capellan
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Based on Magnusblitz's comments, I tried reducing the diversity of textures in my map. I quite liked the outcome, so I've updated the map in the link in the original post.

Old Post 06-15-13 11:23 #
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Obsidian
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I tried making a map for this twice, and both times I clicked Visplane Explorer before I saved and DB ate my map. It's weird how it does that with some Boom maps and not others. But I diagress.

Download Corrode.

A relatively small toxic waste themed map. If this ends up as an IdGames upload I'll whack in some music. Enjoy. :-)

Old Post 06-15-13 12:09 #
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scalliano
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I smell a community megawad...

Old Post 06-15-13 12:57 #
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Scypek2
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Heh. I once almost made a megawad that was limited to 10 lines per level.
So I guess I might give this one a try...

Old Post 06-15-13 14:33 #
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traversd
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Curse you Windsor. I just need 1 more linedef.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u...00linedefs1.wad

Last edited by traversd on 06-15-13 at 16:27

Old Post 06-15-13 14:52 #
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Memfis
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We had this idea on the russian forums in 2011 and got quite a few maps. Here are the ones I could find on my hard drive: download

credits:
code:
100lin - Shadowman 100lines_mem - Memfis 100cyber - cybermind l100, l100_2, ..., l100_5 - Archi 9_pro100hell - BND 100base - Postal Dude 100lines_pred02 - ChaingunPredator 10_1800 - Archi (map05,08,10) and BND (the rest) 100_Lines - BeeWen 100Lines - Mikle 100 - Eternal


Be sure to check out 10_1800 which is a brilliant mini-remake of Doom 2!

Old Post 06-15-13 15:48 #
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scifista42
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Why don't we aim for vanilla compatibility? Given that 100 lines restriction, we would pretty much avoid reaching most vanilla limits, by far not only the DRAWSEGS limit. (I think all submitted maps so far might be vanilla compatible?)

Anyway I'm in. Can't resist.

EDIT: On the other hand, if we stayed Boom compatible and limit removing... then some interesting design solutions might come out, like the one which just crossed my mind :)

Last edited by scifista42 on 06-15-13 at 18:47

Old Post 06-15-13 17:23 #
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Magnusblitz
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Capellan said:
Based on Magnusblitz's comments, I tried reducing the diversity of textures in my map. I quite liked the outcome, so I've updated the map in the link in the original post.


Definitely looks nicer, methinks.


Obsidian said:
Download Corrode.


Nice little map, more in tune with what I'd expect 100 lines to come up with. Looks pretty sleek though, and the cramped areas combined with slime make what would normally be easy encounters (one revenant, one baron) fairly tough. Good job.



traversd said:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u...00linedefs1.wad


I really like this map! If the player really thinks about it, it's a small area, but the way the level wraps around and keeps lowering new monsters really makes it feel much larger. Very good use of height differences as well, and I like that you went with angled rooms, giving it that old-school Doom feel. Saving linedefs on the key doors by placing the keycolor textures on the lower texture of the door was an interesting trick.


Scypek2 said:
Heh. I once almost made a megawad that was limited to 10 lines per level.
So I guess I might give this one a try...


Dear god. Shades of Congestion 64, huh?


Memfis said:
Be sure to check out 10_1800 which is a brilliant mini-remake of Doom 2!


Ok, 10_1800 is pretty dang awesome. There's some obvious concessions made (doors that don't attach to walls, doors of >128 units tall that rise into the sky, stuck monsters, etc) but still, very good remake. Each level is immediately apparent. Too bad they only did 18 levels :(

Last edited by Magnusblitz on 06-15-13 at 18:53

Old Post 06-15-13 18:22 #
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BloodyAcid
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Interesting concept. I'll probably have something up by the end of today.

Old Post 06-15-13 18:56 #
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Demonologist
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Another FDA for AB's map. Short and fun one.

Seems like an interesting restriction (even though I recall people bringing this one up at Russian forums indeed, but back then I wasn't interested, so...), and its main advantage for me is that it's not time-consuming. I'll cook something up tomorrow, let's see if I can fit another stream of my consciousness within such limitations.

Old Post 06-15-13 20:43 #
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Katamori
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Every single time when I think that we have done all kinds of challanges...something new comes.

Anyway, add me!

Old Post 06-15-13 20:46 #
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Scypek2
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scifista42 said:
Why don't we aim for vanilla compatibility? Given that 100 lines restriction, we would pretty much avoid reaching most vanilla limits


Well, Boom is not all about limits.

http://imageshack.us/a/img254/2913/screenshotdoom201303021.png

Some of you might've seen this map before. It had 108 lines, so I modified technical sectors a bit.

Old Post 06-15-13 20:49 #
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scifista42
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I scrapped my map, because testing it with Chocorenderlimits twice caused my computer to crash. Anyway the idea wasn't the best (large dark map made mostly of trees instead of linedefs), I'll come with something better I promise ;)

Old Post 06-15-13 20:50 #
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walter confalonieri
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i will like to participate, if somebody knows how to add doom builder plugins in windows vista could make me a big favor... otherwise i'll see to check them manually...

Old Post 06-15-13 21:15 #
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Katamori
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Okay, I'm gonna be honest. I checked the maps sent by Memfis, and most of them was boooooooooring. Seriously, nothing else but bunch of hallways and big empty rooms with different colours!

Nothing original, nothing that would worth to play. Only some of the maps. Also, gameplay is way too short.

Shouldn't we extend it to 200, 300, 500, or maybe 128, 256, 512? You know, like Congestion 1024 and similar ones.

Old Post 06-15-13 21:19 #
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Magnusblitz
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Katamori said:
Shouldn't we extend it to 200, 300, 500, or maybe 128, 256, 512? You know, like Congestion 1024 and similar ones.


This was kinda my feeling when I said 100 seemed low. Yeah, limits are good, but what that limit should be is always a question. Congestion 1024 was a good amount, for example, but Congestion 128 or Congestion 2056 wouldn't've been as good. Might take some experimentation to find the happy medium.

Still, I think Traversd's map is a good example of what can be done with only 100 lines.

Old Post 06-15-13 21:36 #
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hex11
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I made something for another project with a slightly different set of restrictions (same sector/linedef/vertex/thing count as Sandy's original E2M9):
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=16978

It was fun to make, but it's pretty damn blocky and I'm not sure that could be improved much without using various engine hacks or whatever. But at that point, it would resemble too much a technical excercise, and I'd rather just do straight-up "honest" mapping, even if the result isn't as impressive.

So yeah, if I only had 100 lines, it would probably be ugly as hell (for reference, above map has 167).

Old Post 06-15-13 21:45 #
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Capellan
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Katamori said:
Shouldn't we extend it to 200, 300, 500, or maybe 128, 256, 512? You know, like Congestion 1024 and similar ones.



If people want to try other limits they are free to do so. They just obviously won't be "100lines" maps :)

I set the limit for myself at 100 lines because making a decent level with 200 didn't seem like it would be all that hard for me to do. 100 forces sacrifices and compromises, which is what I was interested in experimenting with.

As for 500 linedefs, 19 of the maps in Demonfear are under that, so that's definitely no challenge at all, for me!

Old Post 06-15-13 22:24 #
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Katamori
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Capellan said:



If people want to try other limits they are free to do so. They just obviously won't be "100lines" maps :)

I set the limit for myself at 100 lines because making a decent level with 200 didn't seem like it would be all that hard for me to do. 100 forces sacrifices and compromises, which is what I was interested in experimenting with.

As for 500 linedefs, 19 of the maps in Demonfear are under that, so that's definitely no challenge at all, for me!



Okay, but don't you think that 100 is a way too big sacrifice? Magnusblitz is right, we should find proper restrictions.

Seriously, don't tell me that making a good map with 200 linedefs would be THAT easy since even the smallest vanilla-compatible (and playable) maps I've ever made have 500 linedefs! =)

Old Post 06-15-13 22:58 #
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