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Phml
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Flow (v5) - download

[Edit 28/10/12: link updated]





Tested in GlBoom+ v2.5.1.2, -complevel 9

Relatively light on the slaughter stuff... Compared to my usual maps, anyway.

No screenshot because my printscreen key broke in a tragic accident.




Old versions (for FDA watching purposes):

[Edit 28/10/12: dead links]

Last edited by Phml on 10-28-13 at 18:11

Old Post 06-17-13 18:55 #
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Wordy
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Enjoyable map. First fight with the archvile in the YK room seemed a little unfair for a first run, but posed a fun challenge afterwards. Decent fight set-ups, particularly in the outdoors section.

Good clean use of textures, though I'm personally biased for nicer, imaginative use of detailing and textures that deviate a little more than the stock Doom ones. However, clearly here the focus is on gameplay and in that it succeeds.

Old Post 06-17-13 19:23 #
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Memfis
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When important keys break I just replace them with the ones I don't use:

http://thumb6.wuala.com/previewImage/kuchitsu/Photo/gdhdf.png/

On your map there are some bleeding middle textures, I guess they look normal in opengl.

Old Post 06-17-13 19:47 #
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Phml
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Thanks guys!


On your map there are some bleeding middle textures, I guess they look normal in opengl.


My bad. I think I fixed most of it (change adjoining sector lighting, right?), but the road one still seem to bleed a little from certain angles. At least it's not as bad.

Also forgot to credit jdagenet for his excellent MIDI song.

Last edited by Phml on 06-18-13 at 18:03

Old Post 06-17-13 20:10 #
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Touchdown
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Is the red keycard siege meant to be beatable without running away after getting the key? I didn't bother trying to finish it that way but it seems pretty tough.

Some nasty traps but thankfully only to the point of a panicked surprise, nothing unmanageable on the first try.

Design wise the only thing I don't really like is lack of any real lighting contrasts. Gameplay wise, the final fight was kind of underwhelming compared to previous encounters. Considering the amount of ammo / health, I was sure there'd be Archviles or Cyberdemons teleporting into that cramped space.

Old Post 06-17-13 20:34 #
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Memfis
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Phml said:
(change adjoining sector lighting, right?)

That, or change its flat or height. But lighting is the best option since many brightness levels look the same. I don't know for sure but either x-1=x or x+1=x, where x is a "traditional" number like 128, 144, 160, etc.

Old Post 06-17-13 20:41 #
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Phml
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Yeah, you can beat the red keycard part standing your ground. I agree it's a little iffy, it feels too easy to run out and too hard to stay in. Perhaps the "tower" area should be a little larger, or the monster count tweaked.

Did you find the BFG before the final fight? It was a secret, so I didn't want to balance the room around that. With just plasma/RL, I found the pressure to be about right. I like having relatively easy final fights personally, but I'm aware many don't share the opinion. That said, it is definitely easy to the point of being ridiculously so with the BFG... I'll probably set things up so picking up the BFG triggers additional stuff for that fight.

Old Post 06-17-13 20:44 #
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Touchdown
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Oh yeah, I got the BFG. Somehow I forgot it was a secret.

It's ok to have an easier finale. It's just that upon opening the red door I thought 'oh shit, it's gonna be tough, it'll be cramped as hell'. Then again, without the BFG, also potentially having exhausted all the cells... Using only SSG/RL would be a different story.

Old Post 06-17-13 21:02 #
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jdagenet
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Very nice map, I liked it!
It's definitely a challenge and it makes you plan out your every move. Very good.

Old Post 06-17-13 21:21 #
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esselfortium
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I played version 1 in Eternity Engine.

In addition to the bleeding midtextures that have already been reported (it's +1, btw -- 128 and 129 are rendered as identical, etc), I also encountered some checkerboarded unknown textures (in a raising sector with some mancubi in the water, iirc); the console said they were just blank, so find/replacing "" for "-" or "AASHITTY" should solve it.

The tons of sectors used for rocky walls didn't really show well ingame, due to the flat lighting and plain texture; adding some subtle lighting gradation across groups of them would probably give more definition to their shape.

The start was easy but fun to blast through, and got my guard down a bit for what came later. A couple of the early indoor fights felt fillerish (picking at barons or hell knights in relatively unthreatening situations), but otherwise the stuff around the yellow key quest was lots of fun.

There was some slidey bumpyfloor stuff in the mancubus switch room just before the yellow key fight, though the mancubus was easy enough to take care of from the other end of the stairs that it wasn't an issue in practice.

I liked the way ammo pickups were placed at the far end of the rocky walk past the yellow key door to force the player out into the fray.

The outdoor fight with all the arachnotrons was really successful and pressuring, though I'll freely admit it took me some savescumming to get through. It took me a while to notice when the entrance got reopened, which probably accounted for at least some of how badly I did :P

The final fight was a letdown in comparison to the more clever setups used earlier in the map. Teleporting monster spam in a tight box room with multiple timed locks on its exit mostly made for a frustrating endurance contest rather than a rewarding challenge. I didn't find the BFG, though. The boxes of rockets in there seemed like a strange choice; I didn't dare use any of them for fear of blowing myself up in the cramped quarters.

Old Post 06-17-13 21:27 #
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gggmork
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This is a new era of gggmork fdas. I'll put the thousands of fails behind me and start anew, playing slowly and carefully and promising myself to reach the exit no matter how many attempts it will take. And it will only take one anyway.
Or so I thought, and so I think on every new fda I try. So I highly recommend not watching this (spoiler: fail), but just in case you feel like boring yourself (for flow v2):
http://filesmelt.com/dl/flow-01-fda.lmp
I liked goldeneye better.

Old Post 06-17-13 21:36 #
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Phml
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There was some slidey bumpyfloor stuff in the mancubus switch room just before the yellow key fight, though the mancubus was easy enough to take care of from the other end of the stairs that it wasn't an issue in practice.


It's the kind of thing that always bugs me when I playtest but I let it fly out of laziness until someone else also mentions it, heh. I think I'll fix it.


The final fight was a letdown in comparison to the more clever setups used earlier in the map. Teleporting monster spam in a tight box room with multiple timed locks on its exit mostly made for a frustrating endurance contest rather than a rewarding challenge.


There's a gimmick to that fight: monsters can't cross the middle of the room. One possible way to handle it is to focus on one side as fast as possible so you can have that safe spot for yourself and take out the remaining side.

Generally speaking the goal is to create temporary gaps in the horde so you can use a few rockets and not get overwhelmed (as plasma will eventually run out and SSG isn't likely to cut it). You can also use rockets right at the start (as the teleporters activate in succession, and start from one side before moving to the other), but that's admittedly something that only comes up in subsequent attempts, lacking any visual clue at first.

Thanks for the pointer regarding checkboard textures, I also saw them during a GZDoom playthrough but... somehow got the idea into my mind this was due to a missing trigger linedef. Yeah. Don't ask.


Re: various lightning/detail comments. I'm taking note, but I have to admit it's just not something I pay attention to when I play, so not sure I'll do something about it. But thanks for mentioning that regardless, it's always worth knowing.


I liked goldeneye better.


We all did, my friend. We all did.

Edit: neat revenant throw. Likely a bowling champion in his former life.

Last edited by Phml on 06-17-13 at 22:38

Old Post 06-17-13 22:06 #
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ArmouredBlood
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FDA. I approached the arachnotrons wrong and didn't have enough health to get through the demons, but eh. Nice map.

Old Post 06-17-13 22:26 #
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gggmork
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Gets cool and more slaughtery toward the end. First exit while attempting uvmax:
http://filesmelt.com/dl/flow-01-uvmax.lmp
(a bit under 10:00)
If you're fixing stuff, in the end trap room, never walk in center soulsphere, instead go left to opposite side. stay there till all switches opened, now that vile switch opens backtrack door. But get center soulsphere and now backtrack door re-closes (but just do vile switch again to re-open, but slightly annoying I guess). But a fix might be make those walkover lines cause a dummy player to start scrolling then he activates whatever, so it can only be done one time.

Old Post 06-17-13 23:19 #
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Phml
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v3 up now, tweaked a few more things according to previous advice and FDAs. No real big change.

Old Post 06-18-13 18:07 #
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Demonologist
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Very nice, has some cool moments and also looks really good. Red door fight felt too cramped and hectic of the first try, but the secret bfg makes things far less complicated, too bad I hadn't found it at once. Optional areas that contain various goods - and baddies guarding them for bloodthirsty maniacs - but not necessary to visit for completing the level is also a good solution in my eyes. If this is a speedmap, even considering the changes and updates made later (and they're all for good imo) - you're the man. I'd like to see more stuff like this, one map isn't enough.

Old Post 06-19-13 16:21 #
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Phml
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Thanks :) I might be misusing the term "speedmap" seeing as for many it means a 100 minute time limit; here (and in most of my other "speedmaps") this is just a map made over the course of a day or two.

Old Post 06-19-13 16:55 #
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j4rio
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FDA on v3

http://filesmelt.com/dl/flow-FDA-j4.lmp

Old Post 06-19-13 17:30 #
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Khorus
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Great map, exact sort of thing I enjoy. I didn't see the spectres in that yellow key trap on my first play. :(


Phml said:
Thanks :) I might be misusing the term "speedmap" seeing as for many it means a 100 minute time limit; here (and in most of my other "speedmaps") this is just a map made over the course of a day or two.


Pfft. You were hardly procrastinating. :p

Old Post 06-19-13 18:45 #
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Phml
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That was efficient, mr. punchmaster extraordinaire. You're going to make gggmork sad.

One more update, probably the final one unless something pops up. Tried to tweak the red key room a bit, so it's not as tough initially. Pretty hard to do so without making it so you can just circlestrafe at the edges and spam plasma, though, so there was a bit of back and forth.

In the end, teleporters take slightly longer to get started, ammo caches are fused together which gives a little more space, and I scaled back on plasma cells and health powerups. It's perhaps still leaning on the easy side, but that's probably better than the alternative, seeing as this fight was never intended to be some frustrating stop, but rather just a little diversion to close the map.

Old Post 06-19-13 19:02 #
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j4rio
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Phml said:
That was efficient, mr. punchmaster extraordinaire.


If I ever learn to map, a megawad that gives you off nothing but berzerk at the start of each map and ocassional bullet boxes would be the first on my to-do list. Unless somebody beats me to it. :) (which is likely).

If I were to suggest something, which I kinda refrain from doing lately, I think it would have added to the flow of map if progression of keys was swapped, so the cramped RK fight would be the first to tackle and the highway one would be the last fight. It would obviously require a truckload of altering and won't have as much of an impact, so I'm rather sure it won't be taken into consideration, not that I particularly care.

Also, you might as well update phmlspd with this, since it's, like, speedmap by phml or something.

Old Post 06-19-13 19:55 #
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mouldy
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Here's a rather half hearted FDA, died once, tried again, got a bit lost, ended up in a bit I'm nore sure I was meant to, remembered my chips were in the oven and took a rocket to the face. But it looks like a cool map. I'll have another go after my dinner.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/r...flow-mouldy.lmp

Old Post 06-19-13 20:27 #
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Phml
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Have to disagree on the key swap, to be honest. I feel it works better as is, peaking in intensity at the highway and eventual slaughter part, and ending up with a small fight. To me it's like when you go out for a jog, you don't want to stop cold turkey, you walk a little after you're done with your run. It's true just about every map I make seems to end up like this, and it's perhaps a bit repetitive and formulaic at this point; but I don't know, I just like this kind of pace.

Plus, there's the red key door you see right away as a long-term quest objective (and even the exit, if you're curious and peek behind the building); whereas the top of the highway "tower" you can barely see in front of you from the start position makes for a more attractive goal to discover initially - because you don't know what's there yet. The way it's set up right now, going there then coming back to the start, I feel it sells the map better as an environment, it's all tied together. If you went to the red key room then moved on to the highway, with the rocky hills and all it might as well be if you went through two different areas, or even through a straight corridor or a teleporter.

IMHO, YMMV. It's probably the kind of thing that's only relevant to the guy who makes the map, but I think it makes more sense that way. :)

Berserk only megawad would be pretty cool. Now I want to see it happen.

Old Post 06-19-13 20:37 #
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mouldy
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Ok, had a proper go now, looks like i died before getting to the frustrating parts on my first go. Seems like the difficulty suddenly spikes up to save-spamming levels at the red key fight. Not that I have anything against save-spamming of course, but I had to give up at the room behind the red door, the battle is too confined for my style of playing (which involves mostly running away).

Old Post 06-19-13 21:24 #
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Phml
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Cool sequence break, mouldy. I should have seen that one coming. It would be gamebreaking had you picked the other side, too, with no exit and no way to die. Nice catch!

In many FDAs, I get the feeling most people don't notice the stairs down behind the PE and shotgunners, after flipping the switch, and end up lost for a bit; which wouldn't be too surprising as there's no texture contrast, and glancing through the grate midtextures earlier on really isn't enough foreshadowing, in hindsight. So I added some basic wall detail to hopefully catch the eye.

Also added HNTR difficulty (there are extra monsters for co-op on UV, so HMP will be the co-op difficulty for people who don't want extra monsters) and fixed some glaring texture misalignments here and there.

No gameplay change whatsoever on UV.

Old Post 06-20-13 13:56 #
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mouldy
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Heh, I had another go on version 4 on HMP and that seems more like my cup of tea. Although this time I avoided getting the BFG and took all the plasma gun ammo straight to the final battle which made it a lot easier, also looks like you knocked out some walls which helped.

Old Post 06-21-13 13:52 #
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Demonologist
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Sorry for a long range bump, but - could you please reup this one, Phml? Accidentally deleted it and found out that all the links are dead. Thanks in advance.

Old Post 10-28-13 16:21 #
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Phml
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Damn, sendspace deletes files fast. I've put it on filesmelt this time, it doesn't play nice with everyone but links seem to last longer there.

Old Post 10-28-13 18:10 #
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